Should Dick Grayson be in the next Batman film?

#1 Posted by ltbrd (562 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised Comicvine hasn't put up anything about the news that the next Batman movie may not come out till 2019 now as WB wants to get a Superman trilogy done first but as I read about this I also wondered if the next Batman film (which is being called a reboot but I hope does not mean an origin story) should bring Dick Grayson back to the silver screen.

I get why Nolan didn't use him or any other Robin in his trilogy. It was too dark and Nolan went for too much of a "Batman in the real-world" to also include a 10 year old kicking the crap of adults and superpowered opponents. He was correct in that call given the nature of his trilogy.

But if WB/DC can finally achieve the correct balance of real-world feel with comic book staples (as I think Marvel has done up to this point) with Man of Steel and continue that into its future products than I think this opens the ability to bring Dick Grayson into the next Batman film franchise.

However, I think three big things would need to happen to ensure the character is done correctly. One, don't show the death of his family or make their death a part of the next film. Just like the next film should not include Batman's origins or the start of his career (particularly if Justice League comes out first as the Batman movie proceeding it should simply continue the established movie timeline rather than be a prequel) we also don't need to see Dick's origins outside of a few comments or a quick flashback. He should already be in the manor, already know Bruce's identity, and already be helping him by running the computers in the Batcave to relay information and analysis.Two, he should not be Robin in the next film but he should be receiving training from Bruce. This would highlight a key point about Bruce and Dick's relationship that is continuously mentioned in the comics but not in other media forms.....Bruce didn't want Dick to become a crime-fighter when he took him in. He trained him in order to give him an outlet for his anger and pain rather than dwell on it as Bruce did. The film should emphasize this by also making a point that Dick is Bruce's apprentice/protege at Wayne Enterprises. He's at meetings, he's putting together documents, he's gaining a skill to become his own person rather than Bruce's sidekick or replacement as Batman. That leads me into point 3; Dick should be about no younger than 17 and no older than 20 in the first film. Though that's re-treading on what some complained about when Chris O'Donnell was cast as Dick, even with more comic book staples thrown into a new Batman film I still think Nolan had a point about not using a kid to be Batman's sidekick. Having him a little older would highlight the fact he's been with Bruce and Alfred for at least a few years (either immediately at the start of Bruce's career or even just before his official debut as Batman) and is at a stage of his life where the film could have some nice tension between Bruce and Dick about Bruce's idea for his future in business and going his own way and Dick's inclination to aid Bruce in his war on crime, foreshadowing his later roles in follow-on films.

With these three points in place it wouldn't be till at least the second Batman film that Dick would actually become Robin. Which leads me into a second question and my last thought. Should a new Robin follow the traditional design of the comics, not the bare legs and pixie boots I'm talking the bright red, yellow, and green with a cape and domino mask? In my opinion I would say no, the costume should be changed a bit more than just covering more of the body. It should echo Dick's background and style of fighting even more than the comics did. To that effect it could be a good idea to lose the cape and give the new film Robin a look more in-line with his Nightwing look but in the traditional red, yellow, and green color scheme (and obviously symbol) of Robin. This would highlight that at his core Dick is an acrobat and thus would not want the cape to interfere with his movements, which is why he never worn one as Nightwing. As this new version would make him older than the comics at the start of his career, it would make sense his Robin appearance would be more a reflection of himself than a copy of Bruce's Batsuit. My second recommendation would be the new look include a full cowl, similar to the Red Robin look, but that may be stretching it a bit too much from the source material.

On a side note: If the new Batman films were successful enough to progress Dick into Nightwing (maybe with his own film) and bring in Tim Drake as the new Robin I do think Tim's suit should include a cape because he's far more like Bruce in habit and style than Dick is.

But what do you all think? Should the next Batman film include Dick Grayson? Would it be better to introduce him in a second or third film (in which case I would not make him Robin in the same film he's introduced in order to emphasis his training period)?

#2 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love to see Dick Grayson participating in the next Batman film, but I'm not sure about the results...Perhaps, the film could imply the existence of Grayson - Robin or simply show that Bruce trains him. Don't know. Touch call for a tough crowd lol

#3 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

The Blake character in the last film was an amalgamation of a few Robins--he's probably going to be your next closest thing to Grayson you're going to find.

#4 Posted by Xorion (446 posts) - - Show Bio

If he will please give him something to wear other than his underwear

#5 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer Batman have his own League of Shadows and Dick Grayson can be a ninja.

#6 Posted by Nightwing4 (373 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes he should.

Follow his New 52 Origin, 15/16 years old, in a cool armored suit. By the time a sequel comes out, he'd be old enough to be Nightwing. It's time for WB to actually make a faithful adaption of Robin. I loved Nolan's movies, but I think we've seen enough of Bruce alone. Year one is done. Lets move forward.

#7 Posted by redhoodnet (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see Batman live action TV series on either HBO or Showtime.

That we we could really explore the whole Bat-Universe.

#8 Posted by ltbrd (562 posts) - - Show Bio

@redhoodnet: Of all the Justice League members Batman is truly the only one that can be given a genuinely good tv show with or without it being tied into the movie universe. Tieing it into the movie universe would be difficult, but I think it could be done if the pace of the series was such that each case wasn't limited to a single episode (such as is the case with Arrow right now, for the most part) but stretched to two or three, but no more than four, episodes at a time much like cases in the comics generally go two or more issues, with the first issue only serving as a set-up. The same pace could be done in a tv series so that it doesn't feel like a hundred things have happened between the time of one Batman movie appearance and the next. This would also limit the number of stories the creative team would need to write and reduce the need for filler episodes and demand for cameos from superheroes that are movie-only based (such as Superman).

The tone of the series would probably have to focus entirely on organized crime, with the city already be in a cold war like state with various families and factions vying for control prior to Batman's start and turning even more chaotic as new powers emerge as a result of the vacuum created from his (Batman's) actions and other villains are used as mercenaries or to fight Batman directly.

Some villains would need to be tweaked. You could have Clayface but he couldn't be the massive mud guy we know and instead limit his shapeshifting to just imitating people while keeping his origin (actor) intact. Instead of the impossibly large, frankenstein-esque Bane the change would be his character is more along the lines of a Marvel super-soldier where the Venom "evolved" his body to the peak of human conditioning but the DC twist on it is that he must receive regular venom injections or his body will go into a painful withdrawl, the longer he fights the more he burns through his current dosage of venom and thus becomes weaker and gets closer to his withdrawl symptoms. Wouldn't have Killer Croc or Man-Bat at all. Mister Freeze would be hard but could be done as a mercenary only in it for the money to try and cure his wife. Poison Ivy is a great staple of the comics but I don't think she would fit into the tone of the series.

Batman himself would require only minor tweaks, mostly in emphasizing the ninja, martial arts, and detective aspects of his character over expensive toys like the Batmobile and Batplane. To that effect his Batsuit would need be closer in style to the movie version of Captain America rather than the pure armor look of the Nolan trilogy to give a believablility in both stealth and acrobatic movement. Would also move him and Alfred to a penthouse near or above Wayne Enterprises and go with a bunker underneath the structure as his primary HQ instead of the manor and the cave, that way he is in the city already rather than needing to travel to it. The manor and cave should still be in the series as the manor would be where Bruce entertains and hosts large parties (he can still disappear from them if a situation demands it he would simply be traveling in a normal car or motorcycle prior to donning the Batsuit rather than using the Batmobile) while the cave serves as a training area, armory storage and manufacturing, and the mainframe hub for his computer network, with the bunker only acting as a relay terminal (a good explanation would be that the cave hides the heat of the servers far better than a cooling unit could in the bunker due to the cave's natural dampness and insulation aiding what little cooling towers are needed). Aside from that his usual gadgets would work just fine as similar ones are working just fine in the Arrow tv series.

Obviously, as you pointed out, this would be the best way to introduce more of Batman's supporting cast. Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon could be brought into the show one season but not become Robin and Batgirl till the next. We could see storylines like The Killing Joke better adapted and watch Barbara's transformation from Batgirl to Oracle as well as Dick mature from Robin to Nightwing.

If S.H.I.E.L.D ends up being a success its definitely something DC/WB should consider over waiting just to make more films as it would give them a consistent product to earn money on between film releases.

#9 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

There is not going to be another Batman film.

At least from Nolan.

#10 Posted by PaperDemon (625 posts) - - Show Bio

No. Robin sucks. (Unless hes from arkham city, that was amazing)

#11 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

Id prefer they make a new batman and robin movie first

#12 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick could replace Alfred and Dick can be sort of Kato.

#13 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they should make a Batman movie where Dick has to come back and help Batman as Nightwing and there can be flashbacks as to how they trained and why they went their separate ways. Maybe 3 different ages of Dick. 12 year old, 18 year old and 23 year old. A story told in three different times, all interconnected.

#14 Posted by soduh2 (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceIMC said:

I think they should make a Batman movie where Dick has to come back and help Batman as Nightwing and there can be flashbacks as to how they trained and why they went their separate ways. Maybe 3 different ages of Dick. 12 year old, 18 year old and 23 year old. A story told in three different times, all interconnected.

Agreed, lets give Nightwing some focus but allow Dick (via flashbacks) to have some history with Bruce as Robin.

#15 Posted by consolemaster001 (6086 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#16 Posted by LyraFay (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, lets bring Nightwing in to the movies!! But you also incorporate him in to a Teen Titans movie, if they were ever going to make one!!

#17 Posted by nightwing89 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been wanting that for a while. I completely agree, Robin in the first film, Nightwing in the second. Up to the filmmakers whether Jason Todd shows up, but you've gotta get to Tim Drake.

#18 Edited by Tim2daresq (6 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@ltbrd said:

I'm surprised Comicvine hasn't put up anything about the news that the next Batman movie may not come out till 2019 now as WB wants to get a Superman trilogy done first but as I read about this I also wondered if the next Batman film (which is being called a reboot but I hope does not mean an origin story) should bring Dick Grayson back to the silver screen.

I get why Nolan didn't use him or any other Robin in his trilogy. It was too dark and Nolan went for too much of a "Batman in the real-world" to also include a 10 year old kicking the crap of adults and superpowered opponents. He was correct in that call given the nature of his trilogy.

But if WB/DC can finally achieve the correct balance of real-world feel with comic book staples (as I think Marvel has done up to this point) with Man of Steel and continue that into its future products than I think this opens the ability to bring Dick Grayson into the next Batman film franchise.

However, I think three big things would need to happen to ensure the character is done correctly. One, don't show the death of his family or make their death a part of the next film. Just like the next film should not include Batman's origins or the start of his career (particularly if Justice League comes out first as the Batman movie proceeding it should simply continue the established movie timeline rather than be a prequel) we also don't need to see Dick's origins outside of a few comments or a quick flashback. He should already be in the manor, already know Bruce's identity, and already be helping him by running the computers in the Batcave to relay information and analysis.Two, he should not be Robin in the next film but he should be receiving training from Bruce. This would highlight a key point about Bruce and Dick's relationship that is continuously mentioned in the comics but not in other media forms.....Bruce didn't want Dick to become a crime-fighter when he took him in. He trained him in order to give him an outlet for his anger and pain rather than dwell on it as Bruce did. The film should emphasize this by also making a point that Dick is Bruce's apprentice/protege at Wayne Enterprises. He's at meetings, he's putting together documents, he's gaining a skill to become his own person rather than Bruce's sidekick or replacement as Batman. That leads me into point 3; Dick should be about no younger than 17 and no older than 20 in the first film. Though that's re-treading on what some complained about when Chris O'Donnell was cast as Dick, even with more comic book staples thrown into a new Batman film I still think Nolan had a point about not using a kid to be Batman's sidekick. Having him a little older would highlight the fact he's been with Bruce and Alfred for at least a few years (either immediately at the start of Bruce's career or even just before his official debut as Batman) and is at a stage of his life where the film could have some nice tension between Bruce and Dick about Bruce's idea for his future in business and going his own way and Dick's inclination to aid Bruce in his war on crime, foreshadowing his later roles in follow-on films.

With these three points in place it wouldn't be till at least the second Batman film that Dick would actually become Robin. Which leads me into a second question and my last thought. Should a new Robin follow the traditional design of the comics, not the bare legs and pixie boots I'm talking the bright red, yellow, and green with a cape and domino mask? In my opinion I would say no, the costume should be changed a bit more than just covering more of the body. It should echo Dick's background and style of fighting even more than the comics did. To that effect it could be a good idea to lose the cape and give the new film Robin a look more in-line with his Nightwing look but in the traditional red, yellow, and green color scheme (and obviously symbol) of Robin. This would highlight that at his core Dick is an acrobat and thus would not want the cape to interfere with his movements, which is why he never worn one as Nightwing. As this new version would make him older than the comics at the start of his career, it would make sense his Robin appearance would be more a reflection of himself than a copy of Bruce's Batsuit. My second recommendation would be the new look include a full cowl, similar to the Red Robin look, but that may be stretching it a bit too much from the source material.

On a side note: If the new Batman films were successful enough to progress Dick into Nightwing (maybe with his own film) and bring in Tim Drake as the new Robin I do think Tim's suit should include a cape because he's far more like Bruce in habit and style than Dick is.

But what do you all think? Should the next Batman film include Dick Grayson? Would it be better to introduce him in a second or third film (in which case I would not make him Robin in the same film he's introduced in order to emphasis his training period)?

- A new Batman movie coming out in 2019? Jesus Christ, will Nolan be directing this drivel as well?

- I've personally had enough horrible Batman movies, and i don't think any more atrocious attempts should be made as i've seen enough unfaithful, non canon, illogical and idiotic drivel to last a lifetime.

- I don't care what Nolan's opinion is, i'm not buying tickets to see his drivel, or anyone elses for that matter.

- The only comic book Superhero movie that i'll go watch would be the Flash to see how badly they would butcher that.

- With that being said, i'm wondering how much of a failure the Justice League movie will be as well.

#20 Posted by danhimself (22713 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love to see a Batman movie with closer ties to the comics....I want a grey suit that doesn't look like motocross armor...if they can make Captain America's suit look decent then they can do the same with Batman's.

#21 Posted by Calvalier (50 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love to see Grayson in a film....just as long as they don't cast that Percy Jackson kid everyone says should play him.

#22 Posted by Mel_Rey (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing is by far the most recognized DCU character to those who hold the Batman series true to their hearts.

He's jumped around so many crossovers, that now the Batman would seem like shadow more so than the mentor.

Of course, the issue is the general population knowing who Nightwing is.

Everyone knows of Robin, but do they know of the name behind the mask? And do they know of his story, or who he is beside Batman rather than what.

There's always that issue. The scare that they may not do it right. That orphaned former circus acrobat Dick Grayson was in fact just another kid Batman took in.

Of course, the former movies in the 90's didn't forget this, but when I ask people what they remember about the trilogy, they forget to mention Robin, and his transformation into Nightwing. Reason being that when people think of The Batman, they only think of, well, The Batman .

To the mass, Robin is still that little kid in the green speedos who makes bad cheesy puns alongside Adam West Batman...

So if they were to add in Dick, it would be amazing to start from his origin, as a child, rather than as a teen. They should mold him as well, show his process, even briefly, because that way, I think the audience would finally recognize the character rather than just see him.

This of course, would cause issues under many circumstances. For one, time and film. Another would be that there is a kid in the film as a side-kick, and that his way of being raised would be regarded as 'wrong' (ya know, the whole 9 yards of 'who would raise a child to do that?!' [jesus, shut up twihard moms]). Another would be the creation of Nightwing, the knowledge of the directors and writers, the story.

I mean, tossing him into a new Batman film would be cool. We would squirm in our seats with glee because, others might now get who the hell that Nightwing guy is, but we would. But that's the thing. Just an insert is stupid. Robin is as important as Batman. They should insert him from the moment of his creation. But again, some might regard that as too much, and maybe, fruitless.

#23 Posted by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

This is almost completely irrelevant. I'm going to leave it here anyway.

#24 Posted by consolemaster001 (6086 posts) - - Show Bio

Hah..

#25 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (12514 posts) - - Show Bio

People confuse Dick Grayson with Robin.

Should the Batfamily be in the cinematic universe, hell yeah, i mean even Nolan put the Batfamily in some bizarre way in his trilogy.

But i still belive Robin is to insane to work outside of the comicbook.

#26 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6462 posts) - - Show Bio

No we already have enough Batfans in the world who don't know a thing about him and we don't need that to happen to Nightwing.

#27 Posted by Ninjablade09 (3193 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like that. Be nice to have something similar to that. Hell but Batgirl in there too.

#28 Posted by RustyRoy (13873 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he'll work well in the movies, if it were a TV series I could see that but not in the movies.

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