Partnership with Tim Drake's Robin

#1 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry for the odd title wording, it was about the only way I could word it without leaning towards immature homosexual jokes. 
 
So, it has been on my mind recently, but each Robin sort of had their own defining trait when taken under Batman's wing.

  • Dick = Disobedient but courageous
  • Jason = Anger
  • Damian = Arrogant and deadly
But with Tim, it seemed like Tim was the one who really respected and bonded with Bruce. I've never read any of their Batman and Robin adventures, but I was wondering if someone would mind summarising how their partnership worked? Did Bruce treat Tim differently? What was Tim's defining Robin characteristic?
 
Thanks!
#2 Posted by TheRedRobin (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I get what you mean Tim's kind of the good son

#3 Posted by VaizD (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim really leans closest to Bruce's methodology of being a detective first, and an ass kicker second, which is probably why he and Bruce bonded so closely.

#4 Posted by BlackArmor (6149 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by VaizD (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

That's another factor; I think Tim, more than any other Robin, sees Bruce as a father, rather than just a partner or a mentor. I think Dick is old enough that he's on more equal footing, and Damian hardly even acknowledges his dear old dad, but Tim treats him with the respect and affection of a son.

#6 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim was the only one who didn't believe Bruce was dead and went looking for him.

#7 Posted by BlackArmor (6149 posts) - - Show Bio

@VaizD said: 9

@BlackArmor said:

That's another factor; I think Tim, more than any other Robin, sees Bruce as a father, rather than just a partner or a mentor. I think Dick is old enough that he's on more equal footing, and Damian hardly even acknowledges his dear old dad, but Tim treats him with the respect and affection of a son.

actually now that you say it its really weird Tim was the only Robin to actually have a Father while being robin (besides damien but that's diffrent) and he sees Bruce as more of a father than the more fatherless robins and did even when his dad was alive

#8 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

@VaizD:

That about sums it up. I think each of his "sons" reflect an aspect of Bruce but as an extreme. Dick has his connection to the entire DCU and his athletic ability. Jason has become what Bruce could be if he gives into the anger and follows a fully pragmatic course. Tim is Bruce's intellect magnified, the truest detective in the family. Damian represents his aristocratic heritage and his martial ability at it's most lethal. Tim's my favorite Robin without a doubt though and I think that his partnership with Bruce was the most compatible of them all and that he, more so than any other (aside from Damian) considers Bruce their father. He's definitely the "Chip of the old block" of the family and when they did fallout with one another it really had a greater impact because of that. I love the way Red Robin ended with he and Bruce at odds, sadly that story doesn't look like it'll have much bearing on who Tim is now in the DCNU

#9 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:

@VaizD:

That about sums it up. I think each of his "sons" reflect an aspect of Bruce but as an extreme. Dick has his connection to the entire DCU and his athletic ability. Jason has become what Bruce could be if he gives into the anger and follows a fully pragmatic course. Tim is Bruce's intellect magnified, the truest detective in the family. Damian represents his aristocratic heritage and his martial ability at it's most lethal. Tim's my favorite Robin without a doubt though and I think that his partnership with Bruce was the most compatible of them all and that he, more so than any other (aside from Damian) considers Bruce their father. He's definitely the "Chip of the old block" of the family and when they did fallout with one another it really had a greater impact because of that. I love the way Red Robin ended with he and Bruce at odds, sadly that story doesn't look like it'll have much bearing on who Tim is now in the DCNU

The Red Robin series is my favourite DC series of all time. I thought that was a really interesting ending, because unlike Bruce, Tim had the chance to come face to face with his father's killer after becoming part of the Bat legacy. If there's one thing I'm really annoyed with the 52, it's putting Tim in a team again. He works so much better alone. 
 
@Daveyo520 said:

Tim was the only one who didn't believe Bruce was dead and went looking for him.


Amen. I loved how he went all lone wolf and refused to come in and 'recieve help' for his disbelief.
#10 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

All the other Robins were brought in, they were orphans. Like Bruce, Tim was the only one that "chose" that path.

#11 Edited by BlackArmor (6149 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonesDeini said:

@VaizD:

That about sums it up. I think each of his "sons" reflect an aspect of Bruce but as an extreme. Dick has his connection to the entire DCU and his athletic ability. Jason has become what Bruce could be if he gives into the anger and follows a fully pragmatic course. Tim is Bruce's intellect magnified, the truest detective in the family. Damian represents his aristocratic heritage and his martial ability at it's most lethal. Tim's my favorite Robin without a doubt though and I think that his partnership with Bruce was the most compatible of them all and that he, more so than any other (aside from Damian) considers Bruce their father. He's definitely the "Chip of the old block" of the family and when they did fallout with one another it really had a greater impact because of that. I love the way Red Robin ended with he and Bruce at odds, sadly that story doesn't look like it'll have much bearing on who Tim is now in the DCNU

couldn't cosighn this mored if i tried. however i wouldn't discount the ending of red robin. It seemed like it ended with tim deciding he could do whatever he felt was right for him and if you remember # 25 then when tim thought of his posible futures one was sitting behind a desk (fundamentally what he's doing in TT#1) it's possible that Tim concluded that after the events of the last issue that hecould do more good from a computer.@RainEffect said:

@JonesDeini said:

@VaizD:

That about sums it up. I think each of his "sons" reflect an aspect of Bruce but as an extreme. Dick has his connection to the entire DCU and his athletic ability. Jason has become what Bruce could be if he gives into the anger and follows a fully pragmatic course. Tim is Bruce's intellect magnified, the truest detective in the family. Damian represents his aristocratic heritage and his martial ability at it's most lethal. Tim's my favorite Robin without a doubt though and I think that his partnership with Bruce was the most compatible of them all and that he, more so than any other (aside from Damian) considers Bruce their father. He's definitely the "Chip of the old block" of the family and when they did fallout with one another it really had a greater impact because of that. I love the way Red Robin ended with he and Bruce at odds, sadly that story doesn't look like it'll have much bearing on who Tim is now in the DCNU

The Red Robin series is my favourite DC series of all time. I thought that was a really interesting ending, because unlike Bruce, Tim had the chance to come face to face with his father's killer after becoming part of the Bat legacy. If there's one thing I'm really annoyed with the 52, it's putting Tim in a team again. He works so much better alone.

@Daveyo520 said:

Tim was the only one who didn't believe Bruce was dead and went looking for him.

Amen. I loved how he went all lone wolf and refused to come in and 'recieve help' for his disbelief.

Yeah for a long time Red Robin was the only ongoing i got monthly. but Bruce (I'm pretty sure this was reconned though) did meet his parents killers once what is ironic much like tim led Boomerang to his death vs trying to kill him 1on1 Bruce tricked Joe Chill into killing himself and stood on the roof smiling when he heard the gun go off. also i think Dick met Zucko(dude who killed his parents) but this might also have been reconned

#12 Posted by NX (307 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim's good. I see good in him.

#13 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

What you have to understand is the place in which Tim holds for Bruce compared to the others...

Bruce looks upon Dick as that child that he once was. There was that anger and that want to make the world safe again, not for themselves, but for everyone. The difference being that Dick had the guidance and somewhat of the forced role of Robin put onto him. Bruce's answer to making the world right again was to become Batman. Dick was never given the opportunity to work through it and was pretty much told the answer was the cape. This is why Dick is rebellious, doesn't want to be in Bruce's shadow, is addicted to the life, and is a bit messed up in the head. in reality Dick looks to Bruce as the answer. Without Bruce Dick is lost, but with him or with the Mantle of the Bat Dick has something to hold onto. So for Bruce Dick is actualization of everything he is about while for Dick Bruce is actualization of his needs. Dick was a child looking for guidance and Bruce the parent wanting to guide.

Bruce looks upon Jason as wasted potential, a cure for loneliness, and how his path isn't the path for everyone. Bruce thought, "here's a kid who can steal tires from the most advanced security car in the world and he's only doing so for survival. His parents are gone... I can step in. i can give him what he needs. I can hone that potential." Jason had already experienced the evils of the world and knew that not everyone is good and definitely not as good as Bruce and when he was taken in he was further shown that even people as good and as powerful as Bruce had people who would betray them which fomented in his mind that bad people are bad people and there is no helping them. So for Bruce he tried hard to be the answer to Jason's needs, but the reality is that he was selfish, and Jason didn't need saving. On the other hand, for Jason Bruce became someone he loved because he was the person who showed him that there were really good people in the world and there are people that should be protected and such, but Bruce also showed that there are also some really bad people that really needed to be offed. For Jason Bruce is the worshiped idol and while Bruce was the Parent who forced their child into something.

Bruce looks at Damian as a bratty child that needs to be corrected and the only way to do that is with strict discipline. Where as Damian looks upon Bruce as a Legend that didn't live up to what he imagined. So in this situation Bruce acts as strict disciplinarian parent while Damian acts as disappointed child who still wants that bond.

In these 3 occasions Bruce and Robin acts as Father and Child more or less... Now turning our eyes to Tim...

Tim is unlike the other 3 because Tim was never looking for a Father figure. He saw Batman and Robin as people to admire and put himself in a position to help Batman. Tim knew the hardships and the consequences. He accepted them and while he did look to Batman as mentor (not as Father) they also both understood that they are both doing this book they knew it had to be done, they had the resources, and they wanted to do it. Tim trusted Bruce and because he knew what was at stake and who Batman was he followed him unquestioningly and likewise Bruce realizing that Tim trusted him to such a degree trusted him. They are/were close partners, friends, family. Bruce only adopted Tim when Tim allowed it after realizing that Bruce wasn't trying to be his father but rather say that Tim is family. I would consider their relationship more along the close friends OR Big Brother/Younger Brother paradigm.

Another reason this particular paradigm came to be is because Tim was better than Bruce and all the others in a few areas and as such taught them as much as he was taught.

So yeah, Tim doesn't fit with the other three, because he's not like the other 3. They saw Bruce as Father, Bruce saw them as Sons. Tim and Bruce saw each other as partners. btw this is touched upon at the end of the Battle for the Cowl where Dick tells Tim he's not Robin anymore... Dick's reason is because he view Tim as a partner and Tim as Robin just wouldn't make sense to him. Tim was mad at this and likely also confused because Tim has always been Batman's partner, not his underling.

#14 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Another thing to note about Tim is that he was more a solo hero due to the situations that he was presented with... He was Robin for a little bit (shorter time now) and then all hell broke lose with Knight Saga which left him to fend for himself pretty much, and the NML happened and then he moved away, then his father found out and mad him quit, then Gang War happened and then 52, then Final Crisis with Bruce's death... all in all he spent more time fending for himself or as a solo hero than any other Robin... Did I mention he moved to Bludhaven for a time too?

#15 Posted by fodigg (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim was kind of a catharsis. It was Bruce allowing himself to be led out of the dark place he was left in after Jason's death.

#16 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@Durakken said:

What you have to understand is the place in which Tim holds for Bruce compared to the others...

Bruce looks upon Dick as that child that he once was. There was that anger and that want to make the world safe again, not for themselves, but for everyone. The difference being that Dick had the guidance and somewhat of the forced role of Robin put onto him. Bruce's answer to making the world right again was to become Batman. Dick was never given the opportunity to work through it and was pretty much told the answer was the cape. This is why Dick is rebellious, doesn't want to be in Bruce's shadow, is addicted to the life, and is a bit messed up in the head. in reality Dick looks to Bruce as the answer. Without Bruce Dick is lost, but with him or with the Mantle of the Bat Dick has something to hold onto. So for Bruce Dick is actualization of everything he is about while for Dick Bruce is actualization of his needs. Dick was a child looking for guidance and Bruce the parent wanting to guide.

Bruce looks upon Jason as wasted potential, a cure for loneliness, and how his path isn't the path for everyone. Bruce thought, "here's a kid who can steal tires from the most advanced security car in the world and he's only doing so for survival. His parents are gone... I can step in. i can give him what he needs. I can hone that potential." Jason had already experienced the evils of the world and knew that not everyone is good and definitely not as good as Bruce and when he was taken in he was further shown that even people as good and as powerful as Bruce had people who would betray them which fomented in his mind that bad people are bad people and there is no helping them. So for Bruce he tried hard to be the answer to Jason's needs, but the reality is that he was selfish, and Jason didn't need saving. On the other hand, for Jason Bruce became someone he loved because he was the person who showed him that there were really good people in the world and there are people that should be protected and such, but Bruce also showed that there are also some really bad people that really needed to be offed. For Jason Bruce is the worshiped idol and while Bruce was the Parent who forced their child into something.

Bruce looks at Damian as a bratty child that needs to be corrected and the only way to do that is with strict discipline. Where as Damian looks upon Bruce as a Legend that didn't live up to what he imagined. So in this situation Bruce acts as strict disciplinarian parent while Damian acts as disappointed child who still wants that bond.

In these 3 occasions Bruce and Robin acts as Father and Child more or less... Now turning our eyes to Tim...

Tim is unlike the other 3 because Tim was never looking for a Father figure. He saw Batman and Robin as people to admire and put himself in a position to help Batman. Tim knew the hardships and the consequences. He accepted them and while he did look to Batman as mentor (not as Father) they also both understood that they are both doing this book they knew it had to be done, they had the resources, and they wanted to do it. Tim trusted Bruce and because he knew what was at stake and who Batman was he followed him unquestioningly and likewise Bruce realizing that Tim trusted him to such a degree trusted him. They are/were close partners, friends, family. Bruce only adopted Tim when Tim allowed it after realizing that Bruce wasn't trying to be his father but rather say that Tim is family. I would consider their relationship more along the close friends OR Big Brother/Younger Brother paradigm.

Another reason this particular paradigm came to be is because Tim was better than Bruce and all the others in a few areas and as such taught them as much as he was taught.

So yeah, Tim doesn't fit with the other three, because he's not like the other 3. They saw Bruce as Father, Bruce saw them as Sons. Tim and Bruce saw each other as partners. btw this is touched upon at the end of the Battle for the Cowl where Dick tells Tim he's not Robin anymore... Dick's reason is because he view Tim as a partner and Tim as Robin just wouldn't make sense to him. Tim was mad at this and likely also confused because Tim has always been Batman's partner, not his underling.

That was incredibly insightful. Thank you so much for that, as it was exactly what I was hoping to have answered. I think, deep down, that is why I always liked Tim more than I liked the others because I could relate to Tim more. My parents are still alive, no one has been taken from me, but I still despise crime and injustice and I want to see improvements. I also love that Tim was forced to be a lone wolf for times and, in my opinion, it is where he really excels. Sure, he was a good leader for the Titans, but he is capable of so much more when he's not held back by the risks that come with teammates. I mean, look at what he did to the League of Assassins and Ra's al Ghul when he was by himself. You're also totally right about Damian. I believe there was that line where Damian said Bruce was much easier to look up to when he was dead.
 
Thanks again mate. Out of curiosity, who do you prefer out of the lot?
#17 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

That was incredibly insightful. Thank you so much for that, as it was exactly what I was hoping to have answered. I think, deep down, that is why I always liked Tim more than I liked the others because I could relate to Tim more. My parents are still alive, no one has been taken from me, but I still despise crime and injustice and I want to see improvements. I also love that Tim was forced to be a lone wolf for times and, in my opinion, it is where he really excels. Sure, he was a good leader for the Titans, but he is capable of so much more when he's not held back by the risks that come with teammates. I mean, look at what he did to the League of Assassins and Ra's al Ghul when he was by himself. You're also totally right about Damian. I believe there was that line where Damian said Bruce was much easier to look up to when he was dead. Thanks again mate. Out of curiosity, who do you prefer out of the lot?

My favorite mainstream Robin is Tim Drake, but Tris Plover was the first Robin that really made me love Robin in general. I think Stephanie Brown would have been incredibly interesting to see as Robin, and I mean, really Robin, not what was given... I think Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Misfit, and Black Alice are among the best if not the best characters DC has and they are all modern age origin characters, which is sad because currently 4 out of the 5 pretty much have ceased to exist with no explanation, and Tim's adventures have been ripped apart.

#18 Edited by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

I think because Tim was alright when he becomes Robin (u know of what I'm talking about: good economy, two parents alive, clever, no troublesome guy) and just saw Bruce like a "teacher" and he respects him (Just read Devil's advocate)

But then everything start to fall, first his mom then his dad but then, Bruce adopts he in the right moment when he feels horrible, so Bruce starts to mean something more than "just a teacher"

And well when Bruce "died" (know what I'm talkin' about too) just end making he a little "lone wolf"

@BlackArmor said:

I almost cried when I read the comic so cute D'=

@RainEffect said:

@Daveyo520 said:

Tim was the only one who didn't believe Bruce was dead and went looking for him.

Amen. I loved how he went all lone wolf and refused to come in and 'recieve help' for his disbelief.

Yep love that too ^^ too much hope and faith :'(

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