Off My Mind: Consequences of BATMAN INCORPORATED #8

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Posted by G-Man (35044 posts) - - Show Bio

BATMAN INCORPORATED #8 hit the stands but before the issue went on sale, people were talking about the big even that occurs in the issue. Word is this is something that Grant Morrison has been planning from the beginning. The path to this outcome has been in place for some time -- the writing was on the wall.

While this isn't the first time this sort of thing happened in a Batman comic, there are still a lot of things to consider. There are still some differences. There will obviously be outcomes for some time unless there is a quick and sudden reversal of what happened. With all the fuss over this issue and with Grant Morrison wanting to leave his mark on the series before ending his story, the chances of that aren't too likely.

Of course there will be spoilers below for BATMAN INCORPORATED #8. Make sure you read the issue before continuing.

== TEASER ==

The Effects on Batman


More and more, especially in the pages of BATMAN AND ROBIN, we've been seeing Bruce and Damian grow closer. Damian was his son. His death will have a huge impact on him. Batman has now failed both as a father and as a crime fighting partner.

Damian was far from the typical ten-year-old child. Having been raised by Talia al Ghul and the League of Assassins, Damian was more than capable of handling dangerous situations. When Talia declared war against Batman and placed a half a billion dollar bounty on Damian's head, Bruce should have done everything in his power to ensure Damian would remain safe. Placing him under Alfred's care made sense but realistically, Alfred would not be able to stop Damian if he wanted.

Having lost Jason Todd to Joker before, it's clear that Batman cannot ensure the safety of his young sidekicks. Jason may have been able to return from the dead and while this is a comic book death, the point is another Robin died. As stated, Damian was more than capable of handling dangerous situations but regardless, he was still Batman's responsibility.

We did see Talia show the tiniest moment of regret in what happened. Batman almost went over the edge when Jason was killed. What will he do now that his actual biological son has been killed? Will he go after the Heretic or Talia? Talia has caused a multitude of death with Leviathan so will Batman just allow her to either escape or have her locked up?

The end of the Dynamic Duo?


The big question many are asking is what happens to the BATMAN AND ROBIN title? It seems you should have both a Batman and a Robin in a comic with that title. Of course we'll see some fallout. This isn't something Batman could or should simply dismiss. He has to deal with it. It's not likely the title will simply be canceled due to the success thanks to Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason.

We could have a few issues of Batman dealing with what happened. It wouldn't be Bruce sitting around the Batcave. We could see appearances by the other former Robins: Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake. Batman will need his family to get through this. He might want to shut everyone out but after his return from being 'dead' in the BATMAN AND ROBIN Vol. 1 #15, Batman realized how important his 'family' was. We could easily see some of the former Robins try to console Batman. They could join him and fight by his side for a brief period without losing their current identities.

Will Batman get a new Robin?


Batman was ready to permanently retire "Robin" after Jason's death. Having lost a second partner (and son), you would think any rational person would know better than to try to recruit or allow another to take the mantle. But Batman isn't necessarily the most rational person. Tim Drake also made Bruce see that "Batman needs a Robin."

It would be inevitable that we would see someone somehow resurrect the mantle of Robin. There needs to be a proper mourning period. It's not like we'll suddenly get the introduction of Stephanie Brown into the New 52 universe and she'll take the role. Tim, Jason or Dick won't demote themselves and return to the role. We could easily see a new person join the family and become a Robin but this wouldn't be something that could or should happen too quickly. Unless the person already had an incredible amount of training, there's no way Batman would allow them to even look at a Robin costume. The idea of Batman training a replacement for his son also seems out of the question.

Could Damian return?

I'll admit, before reading the issue, I was hoping there'd be a loophole in his death. There pretty much always is in a comic book. A weak attempt was made at the end of BATMAN INCORPORATED #1. Talia could have easily created another clone to replace Damian at the last moment. But because of the way the issue played out, we don't see Damian go off panel to allow a swap to occur. This isn't a matter of a body disappearing without being seen. We do see Damian receive a fatal blow. We do see Batman cradling his son's body.

Then again, it could be possible a replacement clone was created. Talia could have managed to intercept Damian as he made his way to the battle at Wayne Tower. This is comic books so something like this could easily happen and be explained later.

But what about his interaction with Nightwing and his final fight?

If Talia did create another clone, who's to say she couldn't have programmed/brainwashed his mind to think he was actually Damian? She could have filled a Damian replacement with some of the basic memories of Damian's time with Batman and Nightwing. In their final talk before Damian's last fight, he does refer to Nightwing as "Richard" rather than "Dick." Why would Damian be so formal? Has he ever called him Richard before? Probably. This could have been a goof on Talia's programming but I believe Damian has been 'formal' with Dick before.

What about BATMAN Vol. 1 #666?

The future Damian-as-Batman timeline is a fan-favorite. It's also been seen in BATMAN Vol. 1 #700 as well as more recently in BATMAN INCORPORATED #5. If Damian dies now, how could he ever grow up to become Batman in that hellish future? Of course for that future to happen, Batman has to die when Damian is fourteen, something that likely wouldn't happen.

Because that was a future timeline, we'll never see it actually happen. Damian's death means it can't happen but regardless, even if he manages to return, the current DC timeline will never reach or turn into that period.

Will Alfred still take care of the Alfred the Cat, Titus the dog and...Bat-Cow?

Is this the end?

Damian is dead. It doesn't seem likely Grant Morrison would pull a cheap stunt and have Damian survive at the last moment. DC Comics has made a big deal about the death. Having the cover be a homage to BATMAN: R.I.P. also would be an insult if Damian suddenly survived. The solicits for the coming month also suggest that Batman will be dealing with this horrible event.

Because we are talking about a comic book death, there is always the chance he could somehow return. But also, because Damian was essentially Grant Morrison's creation, they may respect his wishes, even though he's leaving the title, and let Damian actually rest in peace. At some point down the line, someone could reverse this and bring him back, just as Jason Todd came back.

For now, this is the end.

#1 Posted by CuddlyPlane (84 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly hope he comes back, it scares me that this might mess up Batman & Robin books completely and I love those :(

#2 Posted by SavageDragon (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

So who will we see teaming up with Bruce in Batman and Robin?

#3 Posted by Trevel8182 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad he's gone!

#4 Posted by kingsloth (249 posts) - - Show Bio

I really wish they would have killed off tim if they wanted to kill a robin, he just sucks as a character.

#5 Posted by dtschemmel (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth: Tim is my favorite Robin. :c

#6 Posted by Queen's Halo (2431 posts) - - Show Bio


#7 Posted by secondfallen616 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

He killed himself really, since heretic is an augmented clone. The issue was pretty cheese-ball and his death was cheap and easy. After all, its not cannon is it???? I feel like Morrison didnt want Damian to die in DOTF because he knew Snyder would write an actually fitting and iconic death for Damian. What a jerk......

#8 Posted by Lamenoire (193 posts) - - Show Bio

A swap could have occured between their fight and Batman's discovery of the body...

I really liked the moment between Dick and Damian. I think his death will have a greater impact on Nightwing than on Bats : they have been partner for a long time (and Death of the familly had a great impact on him so it won't help)

#9 Posted by Fantasgasmic (1071 posts) - - Show Bio

When they make Harper Row the next Robin I will flip my shit! …With rage if it wasn't obvious. I think comparing the cover to the Batman RIP cover shouldn't mean they won't bring him back. Batman didn't die in Batman RIP. I also think its BS that Morrison says he killed him because he was supposed to die after 4 issues. The fact that Morrison kept him on for 6 years instead shows how the character evolved, took on a life of his own, and outgrew his original intent.

#10 Posted by saoakden (1051 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to miss Damian Wayne. He was my second or third favorite Robin depending on the day. Most days he would be my second favorite. Since the New 52 started Batman and Robin has been one of my top ten favorite New 52 titles. When Death of the Family came out, I figure they couldn't kill Damian. DC Comics proved me right and wrong. They didn't kill Damian in DotF but they did kill him. I was really liking the development Damian was going through in Batman and Robin. He went from a being a little jerk to a hero. I'll miss Damian. R.I.P. Damian Wayne.

#11 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth: Apparently, you haven't read of pre-52 comic books with Tim.

#12 Posted by kingsloth (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr: No I have I just don't like him, never have.

#13 Posted by Jacobin_Wisdom (89 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian was my favorite Robin. This bums me out. :(

#14 Posted by leokearon (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

"Damian is dead. It doesn't seem likely Grant Morrison would pull a cheap stunt and have Damian survive at the last moment."

Eh... Final Crisis and Batman R.I.P when Morrison killed Batman and then revealed at the end that he had survived

#15 Posted by NightRunner (25 posts) - - Show Bio

A cheap and pointless death in my opinion. Don't know why its acceptable to kill a child in a Batman book. Regardless of whether you like Damien or not it seems to easy to just kill him off.

#16 Posted by Kesho_Ronin (209 posts) - - Show Bio

as Max Landis said in The Death and Return of Superman 15:55 and 16:29

" Death of Superman didn't kill Superman,it killed death"

So i think damien is going to cheat death.

#17 Posted by Trevel8182 (751 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by ScreamingGhost (80 posts) - - Show Bio

What a waste of a interesting character. We all know he'll be back which is something I should be used to with the big two by now but its exhausting of late. It would have been more interesting to see him stick around having Batman lamenting over a dead partner feels like its got to the point where batman is just beating the dead horse at this point.

#19 Posted by wowylied (238 posts) - - Show Bio

This is modern comics, an era when no one stay dead. Even uncle bens was alive here in the last avengers annual and in superior spiderman...

He will be back in lass than 6 month and all will be back to the statu quo...

They really should have killed tim, he is one useless robin now (and the teen titan are a bad joke in the new52)

#20 Posted by MANofSHAZAM (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Tomasi has already said that the next issue of Batman and Robin will be called Batman and Red Reobin and the issue after that is called Batman and Red Hood and then issue #20 is the WTF cover where you can see a little bit of yellow, which could be from a new Robin's costume. Hopefully they won't replace Damian any time soon. I don't want there to be another Robin just for the sake of it. In my opinion Damian has been the best Robin followed by Dick, who I think is the only suitable partner for Bruce other than Damian. If they introduce another Robin within two issues I'll be quite annoyed as I'm still grieving and Bruce should be too.

#21 Posted by wowylied (238 posts) - - Show Bio

@MANofSHAZAM said:

If they introduce another Robin within two issues I'll be quite annoyed as I'm still grieving and Bruce should be too.

Harper Row seems to either become the new robin or the new oracle.

#22 Posted by YourCounterpoint (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love to see the Batman and Robin Book have the old Robin's come back to help Bruce. Nightwing, RedHood, Red Robin, all would be cool to see hanging with Bruce again.

#23 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

Let him R.I.P.....he should not be replaced not anytime soon please!!!(n if its harper row by any small chance ill shoot myself),This should affect Batman srsly affect himhe's not just lost his parents he's lost his own child, not just his ward,this has to affect bruce somehow,Dotf couldnt brake him,this has to somehow,not make him cross the line but do something drastic,pete tomasi explained how the B&R title is goin to work from now on one of those other comic sites ;)

n this is the new 52 hopefully death is permanent from now on or atleast barry allen kind of permanent(he was dead fr 20 real yrs right?) or jason todd(he was dead fr almost as long too right?)n i doubt they lazarus pit him cuz hes being buried. im gonna miss this character!! till if n when he comes back.

#24 Posted by Z3RO180 (6590 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingsloth I agree tim has to die cause he sucks. But it is sad Damian is dead cause I really did like him as robin and the team ups with him and dick where awesome

#25 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2321 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trevel8182 said:

Glad he's gone!

Same here!

#26 Posted by benette_rivera (55 posts) - - Show Bio

For others, Damian was a mistake. But for some, he was the best mainly because he's more human than the previous robins (except for Jason, maybe) - he commits mistakes, he acts by himself and so on. Not like, Nightwing and Tim, they're both "by the book" type of Robins, which is really BORING.

Well, i hope Damian's death is not permanent.

#27 Posted by impossibilly (886 posts) - - Show Bio

Two words: Lazarus Pit.

#28 Posted by dondave (37986 posts) - - Show Bio

A cheap and pointless death in my opinion. Don't know why its acceptable to kill a child in a Batman book. Regardless of whether you like Damien or not it seems to easy to just kill him off.


#29 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio


#30 Posted by JillGr (14 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked Damian. I'm sad that's he's dead, I really enjoyed him pre-Nu52 when he was partners with Dick, and I've really enjoyed him since Nu52 happened. I hope they bring him back in a non-cheap sort of way......

#31 Posted by joerijoe (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I am happy that Damian is out of the picture. Yes, his dynamic with Dick Grayson was fun and interesting but he was not the right partner for Bruce, It would muddy the already murky waters if we got a new robin any time soon. This would be a perfect chance to put Tim back in the partner roll and continue to re-develop him. He lost more of his story and character then any that was brought over to the NU52.

Lets hear it for "BATMAN and RED ROBIN"!

#32 Posted by Mrfuzzynutz (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

honestly, I just wish they kept Damian and Morrison hit the bricks

#33 Edited by frochez (194 posts) - - Show Bio

Harper Row will be the new Robin.

#34 Posted by jsphsmth (1136 posts) - - Show Bio

People are still talking about Moronison when we have writers like Snyder, Layman, and Tomasi writing Batman stories? Four issues to go and goodbye Moronison. You won't be missed.

#35 Posted by CitizenJP (598 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang, man, I really liked Damian. He was starting to grow on me too. Grrr. ;/

#36 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2321 posts) - - Show Bio

@frochez said:

Harper Row will be the new Robin.

Dont say such things. They might come true.

#37 Posted by Green ankh (998 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope he stays dead. Not cuz i didnt like him...but cuz i did.

#38 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingsloth: Really? I see. Ok, man. I thought everybody liked Tim. He's a great character.

#39 Posted by doombot890 (219 posts) - - Show Bio

did someone in the DC offices whisper "no more robins"

#40 Posted by bladewolf (769 posts) - - Show Bio

Since it seems no one did any research: "Batman & Robin" is NOT getting cancelled. Tomasi announced that the title is simply changing to "Batman &" where each month Batman teams up with a different hero (the first two are Red Robin and Red Hood, as most would guess).

#41 Posted by Dud317 (290 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks Morrisson, you jerk! My favorite DC character gone. What? Was screwing up Action not enough for you that you had to screw up Batman INC, and other flagship titles that aren't even yours? Way to go...

#42 Posted by entropy_aegis (15338 posts) - - Show Bio

@secondfallen616 said:

He killed himself really, since heretic is an augmented clone. The issue was pretty cheese-ball and his death was cheap and easy. After all, its not cannon is it???? I feel like Morrison didnt want Damian to die in DOTF because he knew Snyder would write an actually fitting and iconic death for Damian. What a jerk......

Obviously it was gonna be easy when the guy who killed him owned Knight,Batwing,Batman and Nightwing.It's canon dude and why do Snyder fans feel the need to drag Morrison? how do you know Morrisons prevented Snyder? Damian's death was years in the making not a last minute development,and Snyder could have chosen to do something else with DOTF but he didn't.Not Morrisons fault,stop making excuses for DOTF.

#43 Posted by doomsilver (643 posts) - - Show Bio

DC said after Blackest Night they will stay dead. Has anyone died and come back?

#44 Posted by spiderfreak55 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Poo...I was really starting to enjoy Damian

#45 Posted by EvanTheMexiJew (99 posts) - - Show Bio

No matter what your opinion is, Grant Morrison had originally planned for Damian to die after the twelfth issue of his Batman, then he'd be done with Batman. Instead, he continued writing Batman, and kept Damian around much longer than he had even anticipated. I think the fact that Damian stuck around for so long makes his death even more emotional. Readers have come to know and love him, and now he's dead.

#46 Posted by Shieldbearer (84 posts) - - Show Bio

@secondfallen616: Agreed. A DotF where Damien bit the dust would have really made the story arc. Morrison is known for lame ass deaths like the whole Magneto/Xorn thing a few years back in New X-Men.

#47 Posted by The Average Bear (2079 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't Damians biggest fan, but we lost a pretty great character yesterday, ladies and gents. RIP, Son of the Bat

#48 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

Great article, however I cannot agree with final paragraph as DC and Marvel treat Morrison with kid gloves because he is marketable brand to use on a series because he has a niche following. DC and Marvel have never and will never care about creator rights so Damian died to placate Grant not because of creator rights. I don't see that at all.

#49 Posted by powerhouse1122 (91 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian is one if the things that really made batman as Batman. I feel so incompletee right now....

#50 Posted by pspin (891 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I understand since I don't read Batman, this is a classic case of the old switcheroo. Damian seems too popular to kill but I am sure Morrison has a plan and it is probably a good one.

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