@ghinzdra: the thing is though, you dammed Snyder from the beginning with Zero Year.

I'm assuming you've read the final issue, I which case I wonder where you stand (I can't spoiler block anything, I'm on my phone) since he kind of didn't do either option you provided, and also did, depending on how you read it.

The fact is under N52, stories are being retold and the Red Hood gang was part of that. He was tasked with it and personally I think he did a damn fine job re-imagining that story and the characters involved. It's unfair to say he's bad if he does option 1 and worse if he dies option 2, especially when the options pretty much cover every possible outcome. It becomes a self supporting argument, relying solely on people agreeing with your personal opinion, but you present it in a way which seems matter of fact and then use this to damn the author in question.

Here's the thing, I don't like everything every writer does either. I don't even like everything Snyder has done with the character (such as Death of the Family) BUT I couldn't do better and I certainly aren't good enough to get paid money to do it.

Your real gripe if anything is that you thought Killing joke was perfect and didn't want that re told. Well, too bad, it's a new universe and a lot of the stories are being re told. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't criticise Snyder (or any author) in a no-win situation based purely on your opinion. You've panned him in almost every regard, even criticising the fact that he hasn't changed the characters - forgetting that if he did, every Batgod fanboy would want his head. Personally I think he's done a great job so far in a limited amount if time with particular stories and representations of characters I enjoy.

//rant

@dud317: http://www.ssynth.co.uk/~gay/anagram.html I found nothing

It's Hurt. The Hole in the things, the empty center, the emptiness. No, I kid, this isn't Morrison, though that would totally fit that quote the Leader of the Red Hood(s) gives. Is it the Joker, probably not honestly. But I don't know who it could be. I think the Joker would be to obvious, and Snyder already did a big Joker story with Death of the Family, this would be a bit to soon in my opinion to go back and do another Joker story, even if it was an origin of sorts.

I am pretty sure the Red Hood leader is The Joker based on the visual clues. In issue 17 there is a picture of The Joker with no make-up, and if you compare that with the images of RH leader when he takes his helmet it off you see the same green eyes and big nose along with the scene in issue 13 at ACE chemical dressed as the RH. Also some people complaining about him now having an origin story, I don't quite get. If RH is now The Joker, all we know is that he fell into some chemicals, but we still no zero about who that man was or why he truly became the RH other than some possible BS he told Bruce. I am really enjoying Zero Year, and I hope that during this story he can craft an iconic story for The Riddler.

As we know, Joker has 'multiple' origins. It follows that RH may actually be The Joker, or one of the RH's is he in waiting.

If this doesn't make sense, I'll explain further, however, I'm thinking this is going to be what's going on when all will be revealed.

@wishiwassuperman:

He set himself up for failure. As for the rh leader, Yes it s a no win situation but only because he choosed to sell the rh leader so strongly as the joker before. He either follow the most famous joker origin very closely (not original) or he betrays the story he strongly setup (because the organic conclusion to his setup can only be for the rh leader to be the joker. If he goes against with a weird ass twist it will be like the debacle xorn magneto debacle in x man all over again. Xorn had to be magneto and marvel prefered to screw morrison story)

Just one exemple - He could have chosen to setup the rh leader a brilliant and somehow anarchic gangster - Reminding us the joker . The leader would have a young small fry clearly identified as a distinct character that admires him and copy him, a teenager whose origins are unclear but clearly without the advantage of bruce, this young guy see through his bs and realize je's another mayerialistic gamgster. Then the young batman too reckless at this point and bent on catching the leader, make a mistake that jokerize the small fry and isn't even aware of this mistake and of the very existence of the guy. Now this joker is a complete fabrication - part ersatz of a powerful faker , part nothing to lose- lost in this world guy, part mistake of batman. It makes him pathetic and Dangerous at the same time. that's just one exemple. But the point is there were plenty of fresh way to introduce the joker. There even wasn't a need to reuse the rh Snyder just rehashed with half asses answers.

As for the end of the batgod, it took place well before him. Same thing here : plenty of fresh way to question the character - for exemple with all the city stuff those last year - I d like a writer to explore how batman is clearly a patriarch idea - how batman is exactly the kind of thing you would expect from the heir to one of the 5 great family of Gotham (BTW Another great family kane is also a vigilante - and another is a villain - olgivy) - how he behaves as a lord of the city, with few respect for the law except his, and how he might be actually fighting for an ideal Gotham but a Gotham ideal for a patriarch. And the jerkass attitude, the always condescending behavior makes all the more sense in such a mindset.

Snyder doesn't bring anything new. He does fancy with his heavy symbolism, he does smart with his intricate plots but he doesn't do challenging. He's a very good story of the week writer but he's not a great batman writer.

@ghinzdra: Agree to disagree I guess. The thing is, Zero Year is NOT a Joker origin story - it's a Batman origin story first. Is the Red Hood the Joker? Based on Death of the Family I'd say yes he is supposed to be - but I personally have no problem with this. I don't see why the Joker wouldn't be originally a cold and calculating, somewhat mastermind criminal - in fact that's exactly what he should be to me. For me it makes no sense to have him as someone who is weak and feeble and basically has no history as a criminal even to link him to becoming the Joker. Zero Year pays more homage to the original Red Hood/Joker origin - Killing Joke was a re-imagining itself and still had a dodgy ending with the " Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another..." business. Is it a good story? Sure, but it's not a definitive origin story (IMO) and I personally don't see why its heralded as such, considering the cop out ending which means the entire thing is not worth squat as a history for the character. It works perfectly for the Joker, and there's easily more to it that may be revealed later. Have you listened to example the Fatman on Batman podcast with Snyder and Capullo? If not, check it out as you might find it changes some of your ideas and perspectives.

@wishiwassuperman: you seem pretty hung up on killing joke. I think it s a great story but completely ok with changing it. What really bugs me with zero year is precisely how he desperately classic he stayed. He should have ignored the rh stuff altogether. I think he s aware of how classic his story ultimately is hence this epilogue with alternate scenarios (some of them barely make sense) : the way it's presented it s a cop out.

"I know my story isn't really mind boggling so let's make s... Up and create a fake mystery , let's pretend that it a lot deeper than what it actually is." That s weak storytelling

Snyder has been guilty of weak storytelling a lot lately in various forms : dotf was almost an insult to our intelligence in how it tried ver hard to LOOK deep and edgy but had nothing to backup this claim