@redwingx: That's also subjective.

So........Johns ruined Batman for yet another person.

The banter between people on here is hilarious. Keyboard warriors master race.

..Is New 52 Batman really so lame? He's held his own in the Justice League stories...sure he isn't the invincible Batgod of previous stories, but this isn't a bad thing from where I am standing...

@blackhawk000111: Well, it is the same reason why flash doesn't use his speed to beat his opponents as soon as he sees with his ridiculously awesome speed. If batman uses his brain to solve every issue of his allies, other heroes would look like nothing but henchman of Batman which will upset the reader. But I hate to see Batman as a punchbag. I mean, batman trained to become one of the best martial artist in the world and he couldn't block or hit hal jordan because Jordan is what??? an ex-boxer?? Come on!!!

This is what upsets people.

Actually it's more upsetting to see things like:

He gets pick pocketed by Lex Luthor (seriously? no way that ever happens)

Lex can think to stop Dick's heart and then re-start it, but Bruce can't, even though that is a solution he should immediately think of (I'm pretty sure most people reading instantly thought of it, it was so obvious)

He has the most lazy, incompetent, half-arsed contingencies for the JL (this might work, maybe I could do something with this, you'll have to stop her Clark. This is one of the most paranoid and obsessive men on the planet, no way he would leave plans as important as these up to chance, if anything just don't have them, that would be better than him having what is basically guess work)

He acts like a child and demands that he be in charge to Lex's group of villains when a proper version of Batman would never be dumb enough to suggest that. (He would actually just go along with them while at the same time try to pull the strings without them realising it.)

etc

He doesn't have to be Batgod, Johns just writes him like trash, doesn't understand the character at all. Snyder makes him very human, but still does an incredible job with him.

agreed. I mean I think it's stupid he isn't as awesome as pre-52, but I think we have to put into the scenerio that the new 52 is the new timeline so Batman has only been around a few years, not nearly as long as Batman was pre-52 which means he hasn't gotten his rep up to the way it was pre 52.

Haters gonna hate the best. damn a hole geoff iss

Yep.

I never defended Johns,i dont read JL or anything he writes that involve Batman.
Snyder does a wonderful job.

Yeah Geoff Johns always ruins Batman. I can't wait until he stops writing justice league but that probably will never happen seeing as how he likes to control everything. Let an unbiased, decent writer control the big events from now on, instead of Johns who just does whatever he wants to which no one agrees with.

I feel like Johns is the equivalent to Dan Slott. they both do terrible jobs at writing, love control, and will probably never give up their comic title.

Saw a scan here in the vine where he loses his hand, have a comic he meets his older self and he's minus a hand, so is this true or permanent?

I really fail to see why it is so hard to write Batman in the JL. Pre-52, even before Morrison's run, he was on the team because of his ability to be a great tactical planner and his abductive/detective thinking skill. I always thought of him in more of a support role who was also out on the battle field (like a field commander). A well written Batman in JL:

1. Uses his ability to deduce enemies and artifacts and utilizes his resources (including the rest of the team) are his biggest contributions.
2. Works with other people well and doesn't overshadow them. (i.e. Cyborg when building tech, or the Question when doing detective work.) The rest of the JL has contributed in planning along with Batman before. There is no real reason to dumb anyone down to make Batman "relevant" if you understand what Batman brings to the team.

IMHO, Tech skills, money and fighting abilities are secondary in a descending order.

This formula has worked extremely well long before Morrison, btw.