Hooray for me, it’s my first ever respect thread! More specifically I thought I’d do a respect thread for Batman as he appears in three separate movie continuities: the Burtonverse (first two movies only), the Nolanverse, and what I call “DC Animated Original Movie Batman”, the latter of which is Batman with the collective feats of several different DCAO movies. And yes after “Son of Batman” comes out I’ll be adding his feats from that too. For now at least, here’s the feats the three Movie Bats have so far. Also note that as I’ve already said this is my first ever respect thread, so go easy on me.

Let’s start with Burtonverse Batman:

Versus Jack Napier and others

Not too much here, but he does use his grappling hook to defeat one thug and then knocks out another with a single blow to the face. He later shows sufficient strength to lift Jack Napier up with both hands and sufficient speed to pull one of his classic vanishing acts in the time it takes for Jack to reclaim his pistol (about four seconds or so). Finally, his gauntlet is able to deflect a close range shot from Jack’s pistol and send the bullet ricocheting off first the gauntlet and then a wall and grazing Jack’s face.

Chase/Fight Scene:

A lot more in this scene. First off there’s swinging by on a zip-line while holding Viki Vale the whole time, who it is later revealed weighs more than 108 pounds. A lot of what follows is a vehicular chase scene, so you’ll want to skip ahead to about the 3:08 mark, beginning with his withstanding a several-story fall completely unscathed. His armor then tanks two close-range handgun shots, which surprises the goons when they see that there’s no blood. Batman then plays possum for a few moments before surprising the thugs when they’re distracted and pummeling them.

The first one he hits hard enough to send him flying a few feet and sliding over the nearby car. The second thug he is also able to throw with enough force to go flying over the car. He then swiftly downs another thug before confronting a nutcase with swords. Batman is shown to be able to block multiple sword strikes with his gauntlets and leg armor and is also fast enough to block each and every single one as it comes. He then downs the goon with one solid kick. This is frankly one of his two highest showings, particularly in terms of durability.

"You Ever Dance with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight?"

In this classic scene, Joker shoots Bruce Wayne at close range and everyone thinks Bruce is dead, but in actuality he has survived courtesy of his body armor. Whether or not the shot did any real harm to him isn’t fully clear but he does leave Vale’s apartment pretty quickly after being shot, suggesting he tanked the bullet pretty well. And considering that his armor was already able to tank close-range pistol shots it seems likely that it did so again here.

Versus Joker

In the climax of the first film, after fighting his way through more of Joker’s men (alas I have no video to show of that, but it was less then the number of goons he fought in the Red Triangle Gang fight shown below), Batman engages the Joker himself.

He first punches him hard enough to send him into a nearby bell, the impact of which knocks him back into Batman’s range where Bats continues to wail on him (incidentally these are some good durability showings for Nicholson’s Joker but we’ll ignore that). When Joker manages to land a punch on Batman, he is shown to injure his hand on Batman’s body armor, which is another good durability showing for Bruce. The whole fight Bruce is curbstomping Joker.

Versus Red Triangle Gang

First off, Bats showed sufficient strength to lift two grown men up, one in each arm long enough to slam their heads into each-other and knock them out. He then mops the floor with five other goons, tricking one into knocking out the other and showing some decent agility the whole time. He then busts out a nifty automated batarang that one-shots three more goons in rapid succession. Finally, Bruce stomps two more goons. All in all this is probably his other best combat feat.

Versus Catwoman:

They seem pretty evenly matched frankly. Selina was only able to get the better of Bruce and force him over the edge of the building (a BFR-dependent victory) after feigning helplessness, which Bats fell for. Before that he was able to hold his own and then knocked her down with a single hit. His armor also tanked being stabbed by Selina’s claws. You'll want to skip ahead to the 2:30 mark or so.

Okay, that’s everything for Burton’s Batman. In all pretty impressive if you ask me, as he shows some pretty good strength and durability. To sum it up:

Strength:

• Can lift up a grown man with both arms and at least temporarily one man in each arm.
• Can pick up and zipline across a distance while holding someone weighing over 108 pounds.
• Can hit someone so hard they go flying a few feet and over a car. Can also throw someone the same distance.
• Typically one-shots the thugs he fights

Durability:

• Gauntlets can deflect both bullets and sword-strikes
• Body armor regularly tanks pistol shots (even from close/point-blank range), Joker's punch, and Catwoman's claws.
• Could withstand a several feet fall with no injury whatsoever.

Fighting Skills:

• Typically mopped the floor with any and all fodder who tried to take him on.
• Curbstomped Joker
• Held his own against Catwoman, knocked her down with a single hit, and only lost the fight due to a BFR and before that falling for Catwoman's helplessness act.

Speed:

• Regularly able to pull his vanishing acts with only a few second-long window.
• Sufficient agility to avoid the attacks directed against him from a small group of assailants
• Able to meet and parry every single strike from a madman with two swords who was coming at him hard and fast. And that was a LOT of strikes.

Gadgets:

• Grappling Hook and Zipline
• Batarang that can be directed against multiple opponents and be programmed with a specific flight path.
• Gas Pellets
• Some very mild napalm as a projectile attack

With all that out of the way, I hope you come to respect Burton's Batman. Assuming you didn't already.

Now on to Nolan’s Batman, who is in running for the single most lowballed and underrated character on the Vine in my opinion. Here’s hoping this long overdue Respect Thread can help change that.

Versus Prisoners

Prior to receiving his League of Shadows Training he beats the crap out of six other men and before that downed a fairly large dude with just two blows. During his curbstomping the others, he breaks (or at least fractures) the leg of one man and throws another over his head, and then another after that. And though he is put into solitary, it's clear that Bruce was winning, as all of the men he beat are shown writhing on the ground in pain. And again, this is all BEFORE getting his training later on. Skip to about 2:17 for the fight.

Sword-Fighting

It’s not a common part of his fighting style, but it’s worth mentioning that Bruce does show the ability to hold his own against both Ras al Ghul and later Ubu in a sword-fight. He was also able to knock Ras by hitting him in the face with his sword hilt. For the first video skip ahead to the 1:00 mark.

Also note at the end of the second one that though he endures genuine pain from it Bruce is still able to hold onto Ras al Ghul with just one arm and then ultimately muster up enough strength to get him back onto the cliff-side.

And now for his first night as Batman!

For starters Bruce shows sufficient stealth ability to easily take out several armed thugs one by one, with the thugs becoming progressively more terrified. Once Bruce engages the small army of goons on foot he manages to take out close to a dozen men single-handed in mere moments and is shown to not be at all tired or physically drained afterwards. Admittedly we don’t see much of the fight but the end results and “completion time” both speak for themselves. Not bad if you ask me.

And on an additional note, in an earlier scene Bruce was hit by a taser…and was completely, utterly, unaffected by it. He didn’t even flinch.

First encounter with Scarecrow

After being doused with Scarecrow’s fear gas Batman falls a good four or five stories before landing on a car and tumbling off and ultimately seems way more negatively affected by the fear gas than any physical injuries he received. The full extent of his injury is ambiguous, but at the very least he was neither killed nor knocked out by this. Oh, and he also takes out some armed thugs by basically getting the drop on them.

Versus Scarecrow and company

Through a mix of stealth and speed takes out five gunmen and then reacts to Scarecrow in time to keep from being doused with fear gas. You'll want to skip ahead to the 1:45 mark or so.

At Wayne Manor

Downs one of Ras’ men and reacts in time to keep Ras from skewering him with his sword from behind. Ras only beats him by knocking him forward just as burning rubble falls down on him. And this is all without Bruce’s batsuit. Skip ahead to the 2:40 mark or so.

Versus LoS Assassins

Takes on a group of four League of Shadows goons and is shown to be pretty easily handling them before the fight finally ends due to a BFR and even then it’s the ninja who stays down, not Batman. Skip past the first minute of the video.

Versus Ras al Ghul

First off shows sufficient strength to hold onto a grapple while it’s attached to a speeding train and gives only one small grunt of physical exertion the whole time and also smashes into the top covering of some kind of bridge during it and is shown to be no worse for wear. Finally he gets onto the train and smashes through one of the windows, getting back up without any sign of injury. Then at last we come to the climactic fight.

Bruce begins with dodging Ras al Ghul’s sword strikes and then easily cutting the sword to pieces with his gauntlets. Much of what comes next is dedicated to Gordon’s dramatic Batmobile scene, but we do get some snippets of a fight. Bruce and Ras appear to fight evenly and Bruce even endures being slammed into a window so hard it shatters it. Bruce then manages to get the upper hand on Ras before Ras turns the tables and pins Bruce, who waits for Ras to finish his monologue before revealing that train rails have been destroyed and then turning the tables on Ras yet again, leaving him at his mercy. So basically they each manage to ultimately pin the other, suggesting they’re on about the same footing all in all.

Parking Garage Battle

For one thing he shows sufficient strength to bend a rifle barrel and then knock the owner out with one hit. He then defeats three more goons before being accosted by some attack dogs. One manages to injure him but Bats is ultimately able to force the dog off and later attributes his injuries to a lack of mobility, which his later armor rectifies. This means that all of Bruce’s other showings were accomplished when he was “slower” and thus I see no reason why they could not be applied to “faster’ Batman.

Next, Batman gets hit by a swerving van but tanks the injury and then holds onto the side with his barehands as it drives through the garage. Bruce only lets go when the van approaches a column, which Batman knocks into and…suffers no clear lasting injury whatsoever. He then falls from a great height and lands feet-first onto a van with enough force to crush the top and break the windshield. Again this is done without any visible injury whatsoever.

Hong Kong Battle

You’ll want to skip ahead to about the half-way point or so. After smashing through a window and taking out a couple gunmen Bruce is shown to be fast enough to dodge gunfire from three shooters at once. He then dispatches Lao and the rest of his men using a mix of stealth and speed, though more the former than the latter.

Versus Joker, Round 1

Hits the Joker so hard he knocks him back a ways. He then mops the floor with Joker’s men and Joker is only able to injure him by having one of his men restrain Bruce so he can take potshots at him. This strategy doesn’t work for long before Bruce is able to defeat the thug holding him back and then knock Joker to the ground again. And to think people treat this like a low showing for him.

He also beforehand took out a gunman before he could fire a shot, and that was outside his armor and after the fight survives a fall from a skyscraper onto a taxi without any visible injury whatsoever, though he also seemed to use his cape to ease the descent.

Versus Maroni’s Men

Short fight, but Batman pretty handily takes out a half-dozen men or so on his way to Sal Maroni. He also gets a bottle smashed over his head and all it seems to do is make him mad(er). In the end Bruce takes these goons out in a little less than thirty seconds. Not bad.

Versus SWAT

In what is frankly one of the better action scenes in the trilogy, Bruce employs the environment, stealth, his gadgets, and a bit of good old fashioned brawling to take out both SWAT teams and Joker’s men. At one point he downs three of Joker’s thugs in one sitting (2:01-2:08) and then later two SWAT officers before they can fire a shot (2:19-2:24).

Versus Joker, Round 2

A lot of people harp on this as a low showing for Bats and while it may not be his finest hour it’s not his worst either. First off, Bruce effortlessly swats one of the dogs away as it comes at him, and his armor is then able to weather both the abuse of the two other dogs and Joker whacking him repeatedly with his crowbar. Batman is ultimately able to force the dogs off as well as kick the Joker so hard he goes flying back.

Joker is then only able to really overwhelm Batman after striking him from behind when Bruce was recovering from the dogs and then again when he was temporarily “blinded” by his mask’s vision going fitzy, not to mention also using a conveniently placed net to give himself an additional edge. And even after being pinned, Batman is able to turn the tables at Joker with his bladed gauntlets, and the implication is that he could have done it whenever he wanted, he was just waiting for Joker to be distracted. He follows this up by throwing the Joker over the edge of the building.

So no, not his finest hour, but I’d say Batman could have done a lot worse here all things considered, and honestly the Joker doing as well as he did was by fighting dirty and exploiting temporary vulnerability, not by a virtue of being a better fighter.

Versus Two-Face

Mostly some durability showings here. Bruce’s armor is able to tank a close-range pistol shot from Two-Face followed shortly by a fall from a great height. He is shown to honestly not be that worse for wear following these two things. For the first video skip ahead to the very end of it.

Fights alongside Catwoman

Alongside Catwoman (or Selina Kyle if you want insistent terminology) mops the floor with a small army of thugs numbering roughly a dozen, some of whom seem to be packing heat. They also are then able to run fast enough to evade machine-gun fire directed at them.

Shows sufficient strength to destroy part of a large brick with a single kick. And this is him before getting himself back into shape in full.

Tunnel Fight

Batman in the tunnels leading to where Bane is where he along the way to Bane takes out several of his goons using a beautiful thing called stealth. It helped that Catwoman was there to provide a nice distraction.

Versus Bane, Round 1

Ah yes, this fight. The fight EVERYONE uses to “prove” that Nolan’s Batman is terrible. But let’s consider a few things:

1. Batman is badly out of shape here, which Bane himself notes and also what Alfred warned him of beforehand.

2. Batman actually gets in quite a few hits on Bane, the problem is they simply don’t have any effect because again, Batman’s out of shape and isn’t hitting as hard. But that doesn't change the fact that he landed quite a few punches on Bane.

3. Even with those two things it still took Bane a while to down Batman. Bats was able to take quite a few hits and Bane was only able to put him down after BREAKING HIS BACK OVER HIS KNEE. Batman, though he's clearly hurting from everything else, still gets back up and keeps fighting.

So yeah, God forbid that Batman not do well when he’s out of shape and his (many) punches aren’t doing anything. It still took longer for Bane to beat him than it took for Batman to beat Bane in their second fight. Speaking of which...

Versus Bane, Round 2

And now for the rematch. Here while Bane manages to land a fair number of hits Batman weathers them long enough to retaliate with some blows of his own, including a critical strike that damages Bane’s gasmask and clearly weakens him. From there Batman turns the tide and ultimately beats Bane, also taking out a gunman before he can shoot him immediately after. Now you could say that Batman “only” won because he damaged the gasmask and in doing so weakened Bane but the thing is, anyone else in Batman’s shoes would go for the gasmask too because it’s an obvious Achilles heel. In fact why Bruce neglected that attack option in the first fight is anyone’s guess. I would have gone for it. So that argument doesn't hold water.

Regardless, Batman still beat Bane here, and more to the point showed sufficient durability to withstand being punched over and over by a guy who hits so hard he crumbles/crushes parts of a stone column that his fists impact without any visible injury to his hands whatsoever. And Batman in both of his fights against Bane took a ton of hits from him. That to me is good durability.

All that out of the way I hope we can now stop constantly lowballing Nolan’s Batman. He’s a perfectly adequate fighter in his own right and while obviously nowhere near on the level of his comic book counterpart that holds true with most all movie versions of comic book characters. I’d still consider him an even matchup for most other live action street-levelers and frankly better than some others.

To sum it up:

Strength:

• Threw two men over his head before receiving any LoS training
• Held onto a man over the edge of a cliff with one arm and mustered enough strength to bring him back onto the cliff itself.
• Held onto a grapple while it was attached to a speeding train for an extended period of time
• Held onto the side of a moving van for an extended period
• Crushed part of a large brick with one kick before getting himself back into shape fully.
• Won a grapple against Bane (and this was him past his physical prime)

Durability:

• Regularly survived falls from great heights, including one from a skyscraper, though there he also uses his cape to ease the descent.
• Body armor that tanked a close-range pistol shot followed shortly thereafter by one of those aforementioned falls, as well as a taser.
• Took being stabbed by Joker's bladed shoe with only one yell of pain and that's it.
• Withstood a beating from the Joker assisted by attack dogs
• Withstood two lengthly beatings from Bane, a guy whose punches crumbled the part of a column that he hit. It took having his back broken the first time to stop him.
• Survived a stab from a knife shortly after his second fight with Bane and is shown to still be able to walk (forgot to show that video).

Fighting Skills:

• Regularly mopped the floor with groups of fodder sometimes numbering a dozen before and after getting his training.
• Defeated four League of Shadows Ninja
• Defeated Ral al Ghul
• Fended off the Joker even when he resorted to dirty tricks to give himself an edge
• Defeated Bane after getting himself back into shape in full and put up a good fight the first time before ultimately losing due to his punches having no effect.

Misc:

• Sword skills sufficient to get the better of Ras (only losing due to Ras exploiting the weak environment) and fight evenly with Ubu.
• Able to dodge gunfire from three shooters at once and react to Ras before he could stab him from behind and to gunmen before they could shoot him.
• Stealth skills sufficient to regularly take out gunmen with ease.

DC Animated Movie Batman

Coming Soon!

Brilliant respect thread. Nolan's Batman does get lowballed (though he won the Bale vs Keaton thread), I think this is great for feats. He also dodged machine gun fire in the tunnel.

@frozen: Thanks a bunch. It's my first one too. I'll be sure to add the machine gun fire bit above.

@shroudofsorrow: That was an amazing start to this thread and I'm happy someone finally took the time to show Nolan's batman some respect because he is underrated all the time. Looking forward to animated batman feats.

I agree. Just because Nolan's Batman isn't doing silly kung-fu flips doesn't mean he isn't a good fighter. TAS Batman was actually very grounded, the Justice League version had so much toon force it's ridiculous (but still good).

@frozen: I wouldn't go as far as to say Justice League/JLU Batman had "Toon-Force". He was just a bit less grounded. Toon-Force is more tanking machine gun fire and explosions like you're Superman. Or Bugs Bunny.

I think he did have alot of toon-force, it's debatable. But IIRC he was able to dodge Darkseid's omega beams, and do many more ridiculous feats. In fact, they weren't really ridiculous, but he clearly displayed abilities of a far less realistic Batman (than TAS).

@frozen: Well you know, he wasn't able to dodge the Omega Beams indefinitely, only long enough for them to hit someone else (a Parademon).

@shroudofsorrow: love it

@shroudofsorrow: Actually, the Schumacher Batman had the stupid feats, lol.

@frozen: Well in fairness those were stupid movies

@ultrastarkiller: Thank you

@shroudofsorrow: Batman 1 "Devil in the pale moonlight" apartment shooting. Bruce wasn't wearing armor. He slipped a metal tray belonging to Vicky over his heart. The one he is holding about 26 seconds in. Thankfully Joker used a weak handgun and the tray held. You can see the bullet indent at about 4:05.

Dark Night Parking garage fight. Bruce didn't bend the barrel of a gun with his own strength. He had a gadget.

Dark Knight Rises. First Bane fight. Bruce wasn't having an issue hitting hard. He was not at full strength to be sure, but he was hitting a guy who didn't feel pain, period. Also it took Bane awhile to beat Batman because he was obviously toying with him.

And for Bale Batman in general. You're passing a lot of his durability off like it isn't due to his armor which is a mistake.

Outside of a few mistakes, nice effort.

Is that right? Eh, it means little because his armor is shown to be able to withstand pistol shots anyway. So even without that showing the armor's being bulletproof stands.

Missed that. Seems silly to me that he wouldn't carry that around all the time given how useful it seems to be.

"Victory has defeated you". Couple that with Alfred's warning and also what is clearly shown to us earlier and no, I do not find it unreasonable to assume that it was because Bruce was out of shape and not hitting as hard that Bane weathered his punches. That's the whole point of that fight. He's out of shape and is paying the price for it.

"Doesn't feel pain period" makes no sense. If that were true, Batman wouldn't have won the first time and he wouldn't have been killed by the Bat-Pod's cannons. Of course Bane feels pain. He just has some level of endurance.

As for the "obviously toying with him" I don't buy that. He was mocking Bruce for his inability to hurt him (again due to lack of strength in his punches) and also monologuing a bit. But I don't believe he was toying with him. That's purely a matter of interpretation.

No I am not. I'm simply listing his durability as is. It's not relevant either given that he ALWAYS wears his armor because it's his costume. So saying that his durability is due to his armor means absolutely nothing. It's his standard durability. It'd be like saying Iron Man's durability showings are "only" because of his armor. It's irrelevant.

@shroudofsorrow: I read Bale's feats from Batman Begins and I gotta say, I never noticed the taser part. Good job.

@rbt: Thanks.

I really wish I could edit the initial post though. I need to remove one of the feats for Keaton's Batman since as one of the above posts pointed out it wasn't actually his armor. There are some other corrections I'd like to make too, but I can't seem to edit the OP, which annoys me.

@shroudofsorrow

Granted Batman's armor did tank pistol rounds. I was just filling you in because if you want users to look at your work without doubting it you can't be anything less then transparent. Saying Bruce is wearing armor when he isn't will have somebody say "well if this guy BS'ed me here, who is to say that the rest of his stuff isn't BS too?"

Bane was under the effects of a gas that made it so the wracking pain of old injuries didn't affect him. It was a plot device shown when Bruce beat Bane by breaking his mask. Getting hit by a killing attack from the Batpod has nothing to do with pain tolerance. And letting somebody hit you to mess with their morale? That is toying. Had Bane marched right up to Batman and engaged at his best then it wouldn't be the case. I do think Bruce was weaker due to inaction but Bane still had the inability to feel pain.

The other aspect of the armor in general is that using common sense we realize armor is for protection. They make a big deal about it in the Dark Knight after the dog attack. For example Bruce isn't bulletproof like Superman. His armor is what gives him a degree of protection. Trying to say differently is counter intuitive.

As for Iron Man, his armor is relevant. Can you imagine what it would have been like had he gotten shot by that tank in IM 1 without Armor? Or when he was taking AK rounds to the face? The Armor is exactly why Tony tanks as much as he does.

If you want to use this as relevant in the battle forums (and I assume you do because you note how everybody low balls Bruce) then you need to have to use context where appropriate. Bruce isn't tanking as much out of the suit as he does with it. I think almost anybody who is unbiased would call you if you said otherwise.

As I said before, good effort.

@risingbean: Then maybe he shouldve said those feats were for his batsuit but the suit is still part of batman so I think it should count. And he did still get shot in TDK by two face and it didn't affect him as he was able to outrun the cops right after

@risingbean said:

That's what I said. I'd have edited it but I can't seem to edit this OP

And that does absolutely nothing to prove that he is immune to pain in general. All that means is that it keeps his older injuries under control. It does nothing to support that he can't be injured by outside forces. Now granted he probably does have SOME level of enhanced durability, but that was always clear based on his other feats.

And even granting that your assessment is correct, it doesn't really do much to undermine Batman given that no other street-level character (such as Arrow or Movie Black Widow) could have done any better. So either way, this low showing for Bruce is not as low as people make it out to be.

You said "doesn't feel pain period". Those were your exact words. In referencing the Bat-Pod I was showing why that's not the case.

No, that's taunting. There's a difference. Spider-Man taunts all the time, doesn't mean he's toying with his opponents. That's not proof. The rest of the above is speculation without evidence with the exception of Bruce being weaker due to inaction, which is accurate.

I believe you missed the point of what I was saying entirely. I never said Batman was bullet-proof like Superman. Nowhere did I ever so much as insinuate anything resembling that. I simply listed Batman's durability as was. Again, that he is wearing armor is NOT relevant because he's ALWAYS wearing the armor when he's Batman. It's a standard part of his gear just as Iron Man's armor is a standard part of who HE is. So when I say Batman Vs. X it's a given that he'll be wearing his armor. Ergo, saying that his durability feats were done with armor on is not relevant.

And I am fully aware of what context is. I don't need a crash-course in understanding that concept.

@jayc1324: That's pretty much exactly what I told him.

@jayc1324: The Gunshot surely did effect him. Batman was down for a bit. Had Harvey not had his coin of fate psychosis nothing would have stopped him from killing Gordon's son. And he did run off after, but that may have been adrenaline. As we never see the after effects (and indeed a number of years would go by before we would see Bruce again, broken down by his injuries.) we can't be sure just how much damage that bullet caused. I do agree that the suit is part and parcel of fighting Batman though.

@shroudofsorrow: I think that concerning the way Nolan made the movies that people are not going to assume Bane is shrugging off hits without a reason. It's easier to assume that a gas that numbs you to pain, numbs you to all pain, not just pain from an old injury. That doesn't make sense. Man, I'm really glad that bruise I got 16 minutes ago doesn't hurt, but the one I got 4 minutes ago? I am about to cry. At any rate Bane was tanking shots to the face and he didn't seem very put out by them.

As per the pain of being hit by the Batpod. I didn't say you couldn't kill Bane. And that is what it looked like to me. Catwoman unceremoniously blew him up and that was that.

Spider-Man may taunt his foes but he isn't standing there letting them take their best shots. Bane did. The fight begins with Bane letting Bruce get multiple hits without Bane even trying to block. Once Bane got serious he manhandled Batman. check out the 1:37 mark for when Bane wants to put a hurting on Batman. He does so at will. Bane pretty much got into Batman's head and beat him there before breaking his back to physically seal the deal.

You can do with Batman's durability what you will. I agree it comes with the character. But It looked to me like you were playing it off as inherent. At any rate I will concede that a fight with Batman means a fight with him in armor, thus his feats are fine.

@risingbean said:

I could counter that by saying that he knew how Two-Face was going to go about things (that is to say rely on his coin) and was waiting for Harvey to be distracted so he could tackle him then. It's still just speculation without evidence and comes down to interpretation. And I interpret it differently.

Never said he was "going to cry". I just don't think he's as invulnerable as you say. And if he is, then no other street-leveler would do any better, so either way it's not as low a showing for Batman as people make it out to be.

I disagree. Bane tanked some hits and then grabbed Batman's fist and wailed on him. I do not believe he was toying with him based on what was shown. And if he WAS letting Batman attack him without making any attempt to defend himself (which I doubt) it doesn't change the fact that Bruce weathered a ridiculous amount of abuse and that it took Bane longer to put him down then it did for Bats to beat him during their rematch. So it still doesn't undo the feat.

Glad we agree on this :)

I mean if someone posted a fight and stressed it was Batman without his armor I would be the first to say that that would be a bad idea because all of his durability feats (or at least 99% of them) were him in armor and that among other things it's impossible to determine what his "unarmored" durability is. So I don't believe it to be inherent to him. That said if I were wearing his armor and taking that abuse I think I'd do less well than Batman.

@shroudofsorrow: I think a lot of street levelers would have issue with Bane depending on fight style. Somebody like Ollie Queen would win via arrows. Daredevil or guys like that would have their work cut out for them.

And if you want to see a Bane who let Batman just hit him? Watch that first fight at :38 to :42. Batman hit him four times before Bane bothered to counter.:57 to 1:01 saw Bane let Batman get in a few more licks. And at 1:27 once Bane seemed to get mad? He beat the brakes off of the Batman. 1:37 to 1:44 is what a non playing Bane looks like.

@risingbean: Point is though is that Batman had the durability to take the abuse. And I saw parts of that fight where they were trading blows. It was not all just "Bane lets Batman hit him and then curbstomps". Batman DID put up a fight in some places. But we've been through all this already.

My thoughts exactly. Although I think DD would actually do well on the account of having frankly above normal physicals in his movie. Black Widow and the Kick-Ass characters though would definitely struggle, unless of course they just shot at him.

Great respect thread, I like it.

@rustyroy: Thank you. I got sick and tired of constantly fighting off the lowballers and haters, so I made this. And yet I still have to strenuously argue against the lowballers. They're that stubborn. /:

After this I liked keaton more and hated bale more

good thread

@strongarm: Why's that? They're honestly pretty comparable and in fact Nolan's Batman is better going by his above showings. The whole point of this respect thread it to make you respect BOTH Movie Batmen. Why people lowball and despise Nolan's Batman so much is beyond me.

@shroudofsorrow: I prefer silly fights ]keaton[ than bourne esque shake cam

Awesome respect thread.Props :)

@strongarm: Honestly that's a card that I feel gets played way too much. I saw all of these videos while making this obviously, and frankly most of them were perfectly acceptable to me. But of course that's a matter of opinions and personal taste.

@reaverlation: Thank you sir.

A nice summary of all the Batman films that span some 25 years now! I feel almost nostalgic thanks to your trip down memory lane.

However, you missed the 1966 Batman movie! It was all tongue in cheek back then, but didn't Batman batter a shark or something?

LOL, not even Mainstream Batman could do that in Venom stroyline.

@shroudofsorrow: Batman used a gun on a backflipper reminiscent of the indiana jones scene, in the nolan triology you can hardly see their movement in some of the fights. Begins is guilty of this.

@strongarm: Keaton's Batman was garbage. Joker killing Batman's parents? Gordon having no relation to the comic-book version instead being a fat, bumbling useless police officer? It was laughable. Burton's Batman are grossly outdated and laughable parodies, Nolan's gritty take on the character trumps Burton's manbat movies.

Well, at least he didn't order his entire police force into a trap, leaving his city to be controlled by Mercs.......

Atleast this Gordon showed humanity and was important. Gordon is an integral part of Batman mythos, Year One came out 2 years before Batman 89 and Burton made no attempt to even make him relatable or important. He went for the cliche, and then he got Joker to kill Batman's parents, which was an awful movie cliche. Sometimes I don't think Burton respected the source material that much. Granted 89 Batman is still much better than Batman Returns which was a P.O.S.

He was important alright, without his dangerous incompetence Bane's plan wouldn't have worked!

Yup, Year One's Gordon had only existed for 2 years when Batman 89 came out, and the Batman script itself was completed before Year One even existed, which makes it unsurprising that the Gordon in the film doesn't resemble him.

The most famous Gotham policemen at the time were these guys.

@silent_bomber said:

@comicdude23 said:

@silent_bomber said:

@comicdude23 said:

@strongarm: Gordon having no relation to the comic-book version instead being a fat, bumbling useless police officer?

Well, at least he didn't order his entire police force into a trap, leaving his city to be controlled by Mercs.......

At least this Gordon showed humanity and was important.

He was important alright, without his dangerous incompetence Bane's plan wouldn't have worked!

@comicdude23 said:

Year One came out 2 years before Batman 89 and Burton made no attempt to even make him relatable or important.

Yup, Year One's Gordon had only existed for 2 years when Batman 89 came out, and the Batman script itself was completed before Year One even existed, which makes it unsurprising that the Gordon in the film doesn't resemble him.

The most famous Gotham policemen at the time were these guys.

• Gordon showing incompetence and desperation shows a desperation that shows his humanity IMO. He was an integral part of the study and Nolan made an effort to actually create a relationship with Batman and Gordon
• Lol wrong. Burton has acknowledged that The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke influenced his film, Killing Joke came out AFTER Y1. here is Burton's own quote from Wikipedia -

Let's see again shall we?

Oh, now let's see Burton quote again to verify this:

Now, let's see Burton on it again:

Heck, 89 Batman even referenced DKR when Vicki Vale was taking photographs of the devastated Corto Maltese.

These are two stories where Gordon has a relationship with Batman and is integral to the story, simply put, Burton knew these stories (one of them was after Y1 and the other only a year before) and simply did not care for Gordon. For the first four live action movies (from 89) Gordon did NOTHING.

• Yeah, lol but Burton had the chance to make Gordon an important character but he didn't. Neither did Schulmacher, who killed the Batman franchise anyways.

@comicdude23:

Not exactly, they were legendary in their own right. Minus Batman Robin Forever, they captured the era of batman when he had the fun. The joker thing can be done in a movie adaptation, whereas the new gordon can't get anything right and only stopped the murder of the mayor at the last minute. Burton had more fun, Nolan had more holes.

especially the fights

Fun? Lol no.

• Batman for no reason attaches a bomb to a man and smiles, killing him for a short comedic gag
• Joker killing Batman's parents was an incredibly boring cliche and was horrible. It was a revenge cliche
• Gordon having next to no part, not only for the first two Burton movies but the next two god-awful Schucmaher movies (though this ofc isn't Burton's fault)
• The fight scenes were just stupid and silly
• Lol what? Nolan's Batman got Gordon right FAR more than Burton's EVER did. Atleast Nolan captured the relationship between Gordon and Batman, as we see Gordon wants to good and needs Batman (vice-versa) from y1

You do realize that Burton is a Director, not a writer, right?

So all you've said here is that Killing Joke and DKR influenced the look of the movie.

The writer on the other hand was Sam Hamm, who finished his script in 1986. His script itself was a reworking of Steve Englehart's script from earlier in the year (some people think that Vicki Vale in the movie is actually a renamed Silver St Cloud).

From what I've heard there were some last minute changes after that, such as making the Joker the murderer of Bruce's parents, which happened when the Writer was absent, and some of the clock tower scene.

--------------------------------------

All of this is doubly irrelevant anyway. As we've already established, Year One was recent. They were in the middle of making a Batman movie and this was something which had just come out that was in contrast to the last 50 years of Batman.

Worse still, the first Batman movie is based on 40s and 50s golden age Batman to begin with! the first half of the film basically follows Batman's first appearance in Detective 27, starting with the rooftop scene, then later Batman overhearing Commissioner Gordon talking about a crime in progress, and then jumping through the skylight of a chemical factory, and knocking a crook into a vat of chemicals (crook changed to Jack). Joker is also his pre-retcon criminal self, instead of the Killing Joke patsy version.

@silent_bomber: Lol wuut?

• Yeah I realize that but for most of the time directors change the script and certain scenes
• No, it influenced the film. Clearly he tried to copy elements of the Killing Joke for The Joker of his film, but instead of paying respect to a masterpiece he made a cliche. The Killing Joke was recognized by Burton (so was DKR) so why did they cast someone who not only looked nothing like Gordon but didn't do anything?
• So tell me, WHO made The Joker Batman's parents killer?
• Lol no it isn't. Even the later Bronze Age Gordon was an important part of Batman's history and mythos, yet no attempt to even make him relevant. Even in 1992 Batman Returns (more than enough time to add Gordon into the story), Burton does not bother. Batman and Robin is not the original dymanic duo, it is Batman and Gordon who both share a passion for justice and need each other, even Gordon bronze-age was important to Batman
• He was paying homages to Golden Age but the character was nothing alike at all, GA Batman struggled to beat up police men and thugs. Literally. That does not mean Gordon does not have to be relevant, Gordon had been an important part of Batman mythos since the early silver-age. It was DKR that was a major reason in why Batman 89 was greenlit. Burton Joker was a gangster who killed Batman's parents and became crazy for no reason? Killing Joke version lost everything, and then fell in the vat of chemicals, that is why he saw everything as a big joke.

@comicdude23: I find everything the both of you have been saying to be very insightful, but calling Keaton's Batman Garbage I just can't agree with. Just because it doesn't completely stick to the comicbook mythos, doesnt mean it isn't good in it's own right. Just count all of the comicbook movies out right now and tell me there isn't at least one plot piece or one character/relationship missing from the film.

I can tell when something is a complete waste of time, and this discussion clearly is.

• Batman (1989) was written in 1986, this is a fact.
• Batman Returns continues on from Batman (1989) continuity.
• Gordon was often an exposition character with 1 or 2 panels of dialogue every other issue prior to Year One
• Contemporary Gordon would've been completely unrecognisable to the public in 1989, who would be used to Neil Hamilton
• Sam Hamm is free to emphasize or de-emphasize Gordon all he wants, not all Batman stories are focused on him
• Gordon in the Burton films is not portrayed as "bumbling" or "useless" anyway, the guy is barely even seen.
• Whether or not they changed elements of the script later doesn't mean they could, or should re-write everything else.
• Burton's Batman films are clearly more similar to Golden Age Batman, most characters are even wearing 40s & 50s clothing.

@comicdude23:

golden age silver age shenanigans

I threw this together so I can just re-post it every time this comes up, LOL

And don't get me started on Batman Returns Catwoman.

@silent_bomber: Those pictures are crazy! I didn't know that movie drew so heavily from golden age comics!

Well if this isn't a discussion that is completely off-topic I don't know what is.

@silent_bomber: I have seen the pictures, it shows homages to the GA Batman but the statements still stand and characterizations are different.

Lol maybe not garbage but it wasn't good.

• Hey, here's a fact - Burton has said that Killing Joke influenced him, and don't say the look of teh film because they looked nothing alike. Do not try and discredit Burton's own statements, clearly this written in 86 nonsense changed as Killing Joke influenced him. Burton contradicts himself
• Yes I KNOW that. But he still didn't do anything with Gordon
• That is not entirely true. He was shown to trust Batman eventually and the two were friends, you can read the Batman comics prior to COIE and he was still an ally, friend of Batman. Burton's version was lazy and comical
• It doesn't have to be his look, just his character. In the two Burton films he put no emphasis on Gordon. Nolan did
• LOL, he didn't do ANYTHING with Gordon, Gordon was straight up comical and lazy. Even pre-crisis E1 Gordon was not like that. Burton's Batman was not all golden age, it took inspiration from bronze age stories too.
• Um, yes he is. In his scenes he was incompetent, even pre-crisis Gordon knew he needed Batman vice-versa
• It took elements from Killing Joke, what do you not understand about this? Burton has said so himself, yes it was inspired by GA but also BA aspects. Batman's utility/gadgets are similar to the Bronze-Age,

Do not call me a waste of time when you ignore Burton's own statements. Here's another one for you: “I always get told that my material is dark, but nowadays my version of ‘Batman’ looks like a lighthearted romp in comparison to Christopher Nolan’s ‘Dark Knight''.

@silent_bomber:

More sources that show Burton did draw inspiration from DKR and Killing Joke, not just the GA - http://www.stuff.tv/movie-classics-%E2%80%93-batman-1989/news

@comicdude23 said:

@silent_bomber:

More sources that show Burton did draw inspiration from DKR and Killing Joke

Nobody is arguing that Burton drew inspiration from DKR and Killing Joke

You on the other hand are arguing that Burton is the Writer of Batman '89, and not the Director for some reason.

Inspiration for a Director is tone, style, atmosphere etc etc.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read Sam Hamm's 1986 script. Whilst a few details are different, the main crux of the plot is largely unchanged outside of the three sections I already mentioned (the Bruce/Vicki 1st date was also changed).

Mainly they just cut a ton of stuff out, Gordon was supposed to be with Bruce after his parents were murdered for instance, and the flying Graysons also made an appearance in a scene that was supposed to take place just before the balloon parade.