Batman: Son of the Demon (Published in 1987) - A story of Batman helping Rha's Al Ghul on a mission, resulting in Talia Al Ghul and Bruce Wayne furthering their relationship resulting in intercourse inevitably leading to the birth of an unplanned love child which Talia would keep secret. That child would later become Damian Wayne. This is a great story that shows Bruce at one point was very much in love with Talia, so much so he had a child with her. A very different vulnerable version of Bruce Wayne and Batman is seen in this story we don't usually see.

Morrison's Batman & Son (Published in 2006) - Morrison drastically changed the events of Damian's conception, even admitting he didn't bother reading Son of the Demon, and changing the story from Talia and Bruce having feelings for each other and having sex resulting in an unplanned love child, into Talia having some master plan to drug Batman all along and some ridiculous non-sense about grow Damian in an artificial womb to be genetically perfect and and be a formidable warrior.

Morrison took a great story and something that made sense in Son of the Demon, and changed it to something ridiculous. Does Damian really have to be genetically altered fighting machine and part of some evil Talia Al Ghul plot? Can't he just be an unplanned kid, who is now thrust upon Batman's life?

Morrison who read obscure Batman comics from the 70s and 80s and took these forgotten characters nobody remembered or cared about, and he uses them on his Batman run and he expected people to know what he's talking about. That same Morrison didn't even bother to read the story where Talia Al Ghul gave birth to Batman's son before embarking on bring Damian into the Batman universe! WTF!

Retcons, they happen. And this instance actually makes for a better story IMO.

Retcons, they happen. And this instance actually makes for a better story IMO.

@higher_evolutionary said:

@The_Tree said:

Retcons, they happen. And this instance actually makes for a better story IMO.

actually here its worse

And that's why I said "in my opinion," don't go telling me I can't have one.

@higher_evolutionary said:

@The_Tree said:

Retcons, they happen. And this instance actually makes for a better story IMO.

actually here its worse

And that's why I said "in my opinion," don't go telling me I can't have one.

Hard to ruin the origin of a character he himself created.Regardless i liked SOD but what Morrison wanted to do was provide storytelling opportunities.There's no such thing as a perfect union in comicbooks,Morrisons story has'nt been completed so you can save the complaining for later.

Damien Wayne was a better character when he was an Elseworld character.

@KenTheProfile said:

@dannymalt: actually it makes no diffrence. he did not drastically change anything just filled in the finer points. Morrison took forgoten charecters no one cared about and made then intresting. That includes Damian. Bruce may have had feeling but he was never in love with her she is just too evil. the same goes for her she was mostly in it becuase her father sad it was okay also if Damian was just some normal kid Batman could change his brain washed up bring quickly and there would be nothing intresting about there interaction.

I respect Morrison for making Damian a regular character. Aside from aspects of his origin, I like Damian. I just feel the origin story he chose to make Damian the creation of genetic engineering is unneeded science-fiction mumbo jumbo. And in order to give Damian this background, he had to retcon various aspects of the Son of the Demon story for the worse. Damian would still have gone over years of brain washing suffering Rha's and Talia's influence, and still be a problem child, and still interesting.

Also Bruce was very much in love with Talia, he even married her (although under weird circumstances, and not really a legit marriage, but still married). Point being, I like the character of Talia and I feel Morrison by making the storyline to Talia drugging Batman and that is the reason for Damian, he is changing aspects of Talia's character for the worse. Talia may be an enemy, but she is also a sympathizer, lover, and friend of Batman. Kind of an altered Magento/Xavier type relationship. And by that I mean, they are enemies, but they both care for each other greatly. I feel Morrison lost that mutual respect between Talia and Batman and instead just focused on making Talia evil and an enemy.

@KenTheProfile said:

@dannymalt: actually it makes no diffrence. he did not drastically change anything just filled in the finer points. Morrison took forgoten charecters no one cared about and made then intresting. That includes Damian. Bruce may have had feeling but he was never in love with her she is just too evil. the same goes for her she was mostly in it becuase her father sad it was okay also if Damian was just some normal kid Batman could change his brain washed up bring quickly and there would be nothing intresting about there interaction.

I respect Morrison for making Damian a regular character. Aside from aspects of his origin, I like Damian. I just feel the origin story he chose to make Damian the creation of genetic engineering is unneeded science-fiction mumbo jumbo. And in order to give Damian this background, he had to retcon various aspects of the Son of the Demon story for the worse. Damian would still have gone over years of brain washing suffering Rha's and Talia's influence, and still be a problem child, and still interesting.

Also Bruce was very much in love with Talia, he even married her (although under weird circumstances, and not really a legit marriage, but still married). Point being, I like the character of Talia and I feel Morrison by making the storyline to Talia drugging Batman and that is the reason for Damian, he is changing aspects of Talia's character for the worse. Talia may be an enemy, but she is also a sympathizer, lover, and friend of Batman. Kind of an altered Magento/Xavier type relationship. And by that I mean, they are enemies, but they both care for each other greatly. I feel Morrison lost that mutual respect between Talia and Batman and instead just focused on making Talia evil and an enemy.

@Sydpart2: Interesting theory. Plausible. Have to wait and see.

It's the same for me :S

@Sydpart2 said:

@dannymalt: Hey man you might want to go pick up Batman and Robin #2 the one that just came out (date of post 10/16/11), Bruce talks about Damian's conception, he mentions that he had feelings for Talia and let those get the better of him, could he have been putting on an act in Batman and Son? Or is that an acceptable excuse at the least?

Morrison himself brought back Son of the demon back in continuity in Final Crisis,check out Last Rites which shows Bruce and Talia having sex,you'll find Bruce wearing bandages on his abdomen.The same ones he wore in Son of the demon.

@Sydpart2 said:

@dannymalt: Hey man you might want to go pick up Batman and Robin #2 the one that just came out (date of post 10/16/11), Bruce talks about Damian's conception, he mentions that he had feelings for Talia and let those get the better of him, could he have been putting on an act in Batman and Son? Or is that an acceptable excuse at the least?

Yeah I read that. Glad they went into it a bit.

I do like TALIA, but i never really cared too much for DAMIEN anyway but from what ive heard, his character didnt really change much anyway...

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

@dannymalt said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

Watered down Batman= BORING.

@entropy_aegis said:

Hard to ruin the origin of a character he himself created.Regardless i liked SOD but what Morrison wanted to do was provide storytelling opportunities.There's no such thing as a perfect union in comicbooks,Morrisons story has'nt been completed so you can save the complaining for later.

This. The OP condused the hell out of me because I thought this would be obvious.

However, I do not agree with Morrison's depiction of Talia being nothing but an evil... (don't want to get banned)

@batman_is_god said:

@entropy_aegis said:

Hard to ruin the origin of a character he himself created.Regardless i liked SOD but what Morrison wanted to do was provide storytelling opportunities.There's no such thing as a perfect union in comicbooks,Morrisons story has'nt been completed so you can save the complaining for later.

This. The OP condused the hell out of me because I thought this would be obvious.

However, I do not agree with Morrison's depiction of Talia being nothing but an evil... (don't want to get banned)

But a badass evil...

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

Watered down Batman= BORING.

No you got it wrong. Watered down Batman doesn't equal Boring. Batman getting shot with a magical beam that sends him jumping through time = STUPID

@dannymalt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

Watered down Batman= BORING.

No you got it wrong. Watered down Batman doesn't equal Boring. Batman getting shot with a magical beam that sends him jumping through time = STUPID

It's a comic book with a variety of characters,deal with it.Sci-fi has it's own fanbase and quite frankly the most popular crime stories of the Batman universe are retarded,(ASBAR,Hush,Long Halloween etc).

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

Watered down Batman= BORING.

No you got it wrong. Watered down Batman doesn't equal Boring. Batman getting shot with a magical beam that sends him jumping through time = STUPID

It's a comic book with a variety of characters,deal with it.Sci-fi has it's own fanbase and quite frankly the most popular crime stories of the Batman universe are retarded,(ASBAR,Hush,Long Halloween etc).

I liked Hush and Long Halloween. (Haven't read ASBAR). I like Sci-Fi. I like Sci-Fi comics. I just object to Morrison's Sci-Fi in the context of what he's done with Batman.

@dannymalt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@dannymalt said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

I didn't like Morrison's run on Batman in general. There! I said it. Now kill me!

I didn't like his run either. A lot of people did and will defend it, and say you just don't get his brilliance. And there are others like you and I, who really disliked it. To me his story telling is this confusing jumping around style that is hard to follow, and he loves using crazy supernatural stuff in his stories, which is not what I want when it comes to a Batman comic. I like Batman to be grounded close to reality if possible, something Morrison clearly doesn't like.

During Morrison's run with Batman he had all the crazy Black Glove stuff and their brain washing and Batman of Zur-en-arrh. Then that whole thing with Batman during Final Crisis and Darkseid, which I still don't understand. Then Bruce Wayne travelling through time building up energy which will end the universe once he catches up to the present day, but that all somehow gets averted, and Bruce returns. What kind of crazy storylines are these? These out-there supernatural concepts combined with Morrison's jumping around style of storytelling really makes his run hard to like.

I like his idea of Batman dying and seeing how everyone goes on after his "death", and then bringing him back. I like his idea of bringing Damian into continuity. I like the idea of Batman Inc. All great ideas I just think he executed them all horribly.

Watered down Batman= BORING.

No you got it wrong. Watered down Batman doesn't equal Boring. Batman getting shot with a magical beam that sends him jumping through time = STUPID

It's a comic book with a variety of characters,deal with it.Sci-fi has it's own fanbase and quite frankly the most popular crime stories of the Batman universe are retarded,(ASBAR,Hush,Long Halloween etc).

I liked Hush and Long Halloween. (Haven't read ASBAR). I like Sci-Fi. I like Sci-Fi comics. I just object to Morrison's Sci-Fi in the context of what he's done with Batman.

Hush and Long Halloween were enjoyable but fall apart massively when it comes to characterization and especially the mystery.Anyone can write a good Batman story by having a whole host of his known enemies involved.Long Halloween and Dark Victory are virtually identical,if Hush were rawn by Sale then it too would have been just like them.Basically what i'm trying to say is that you can read just one of these stories and you've automatically read the other 2.

I like Damian as a rape baby. I just walk up to my friends who don't read comics and say "....Batman was raped you know" and then they like fall out there chairs or spit out whatever is in their mouth or stare at me with their mouths hanging open or one time this guy fell down the stairs. and i just laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh some more

@BlackArmor: Not gonna lie, I kinda want to do this now. Haha

@KenTheProfile said:

@dannymalt: actually it makes no diffrence. he did not drastically change anything just filled in the finer points. Morrison took forgoten charecters no one cared about and made then intresting. That includes Damian. Bruce may have had feeling but he was never in love with her she is just too evil. the same goes for her she was mostly in it becuase her father sad it was okay also if Damian was just some normal kid Batman could change his brain washed up bring quickly and there would be nothing intresting about there interaction.

I respect Morrison for making Damian a regular character. Aside from aspects of his origin, I like Damian. I just feel the origin story he chose to make Damian the creation of genetic engineering is unneeded science-fiction mumbo jumbo. And in order to give Damian this background, he had to retcon various aspects of the Son of the Demon story for the worse. Damian would still have gone over years of brain washing suffering Rha's and Talia's influence, and still be a problem child, and still interesting.

Also Bruce was very much in love with Talia, he even married her (although under weird circumstances, and not really a legit marriage, but still married). Point being, I like the character of Talia and I feel Morrison by making the storyline to Talia drugging Batman and that is the reason for Damian, he is changing aspects of Talia's character for the worse. Talia may be an enemy, but she is also a sympathizer, lover, and friend of Batman. Kind of an altered Magento/Xavier type relationship. And by that I mean, they are enemies, but they both care for each other greatly. I feel Morrison lost that mutual respect between Talia and Batman and instead just focused on making Talia evil and an enemy.

@RainEffect: He made Talia a badass,if Deathstroke kinda revers her then you know it's awesome.

@RainEffect: He made Talia a badass,if Deathstroke kinda revers her then you know it's awesome.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@RainEffect: He made Talia a badass,if Deathstroke kinda revers her then you know it's awesome.

Slade revered her? That is pretty rad. However, I always liked Talia because she wasn't stereotypically evil. She's just a furiously protective mother.

Kinda

Talia:summon my executioner

later

Talia:ah Mr Wilson,ready to deliever the Deathstroke?

Slade:my mind is my greatest weapon Lady Talia.

just throwing out some dialogue.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@RainEffect: He made Talia a badass,if Deathstroke kinda revers her then you know it's awesome.

Slade revered her? That is pretty rad. However, I always liked Talia because she wasn't stereotypically evil. She's just a furiously protective mother.

Kinda

Talia:summon my executioner

later

Talia:ah Mr Wilson,ready to deliever the Deathstroke?

Slade:my mind is my greatest weapon Lady Talia.

just throwing out some dialogue.

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@RainEffect: He made Talia a badass,if Deathstroke kinda revers her then you know it's awesome.

Slade revered her? That is pretty rad. However, I always liked Talia because she wasn't stereotypically evil. She's just a furiously protective mother.

Kinda

Talia:summon my executioner

later

Talia:ah Mr Wilson,ready to deliever the Deathstroke?

Slade:my mind is my greatest weapon Lady Talia.

just throwing out some dialogue.

*Cringes at the Deathstroke pun* This is why we can't have Talia is evil, Morrison. She just becomes a laughable 'evil mistress'. Other than that, at least Slade addressed her with respect.

and that's badass.

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

@entropy_aegis said:

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

it's kind of depressing when you get down to Bruces only two options I just plain out don't like catwoman and a badly written Talia is nuttier than squirrel poop

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

it's kind of depressing when you get down to Bruces only two options I just plain out don't like catwoman and a badly written Talia is nuttier than squirrel poop

Why don't you like Catwoman?personally i would'nt mind Bruce with Black Canary or Zatanna.

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

it's kind of depressing when you get down to Bruces only two options I just plain out don't like catwoman and a badly written Talia is nuttier than squirrel poop

Why don't you like Catwoman?personally i would'nt mind Bruce with Black Canary or Zatanna.

personally i prefer Zatanna. i don't really like catwoman because 1 just find that too much of her in one sitting to be annoying this wouldn't be a problem if she wasn't the second most over used bat charecter after joker except joker kindof deserves it because he's relativly complex and because of his insanity diffrent writers can have him act and do diffrent things while catwoman is generally varying levels of the same annoying charecter. her motovation is being a glorified kleptomaniac she's usually depicted as having stolen enough to at least get by if not live a high society life but she does it for the thrill and charecters that do what they do for thrill alone just don't appeal to me. the cat theif thing is really cliche and imo should have been abandond with bat-mite. what really bothers me though is that i always saw her as two things a wannabe female batman who without his gadjets and level of training should have died along time ago (but this is comics so this is kinda invalid) and also as a sort of batman sidekick who rebelled against being a batman sidekick even though she doesn't know she's a batman sidekick the last thing is i'm pretty sure that when they made her they said "let's make an antibatman that's a woman batman can flirt with" and most anti main charecters (such as red hulk ) get on my bad side quickly

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

it's kind of depressing when you get down to Bruces only two options I just plain out don't like catwoman and a badly written Talia is nuttier than squirrel poop

Why don't you like Catwoman?personally i would'nt mind Bruce with Black Canary or Zatanna.

personally i prefer Zatanna. i don't really like catwoman because 1 just find that too much of her in one sitting to be annoying this wouldn't be a problem if she wasn't the second most over used bat charecter after joker except joker kindof deserves it because he's relativly complex and because of his insanity diffrent writers can have him act and do diffrent things while catwoman is generally varying levels of the same annoying charecter. her motovation is being a glorified kleptomaniac she's usually depicted as having stolen enough to at least get by if not live a high society life but she does it for the thrill and charecters that do what they do for thrill alone just don't appeal to me. the cat theif thing is really cliche and imo should have been abandond with bat-mite. what really bothers me though is that i always saw her as two things a wannabe female batman who without his gadjets and level of training should have died along time ago (but this is comics so this is kinda invalid) and also as a sort of batman sidekick who rebelled against being a batman sidekick even though she doesn't know she's a batman sidekick the last thing is i'm pretty sure that when they made her they said "let's make an antibatman that's a woman batman can flirt with" and most anti main charecters (such as red hulk ) get on my bad side quickly

Interesting analysis.

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@iLLituracy said:

Son of the Demon wasn't canon. It wasn't regarded to as any sort of canon until Batman & Son which made it canon by association. Grant admits he didn't read Son of the Demon before writing the arc, either.

It was canon for a few years,Birth of the Demon clashed with it and so one of them needed to be kicked out hence they wen't with SOD in Zero Hour i think.

@RainEffect said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@BlackArmor said:

@entropy_aegis: hmm there aren't many people Slade revers so that iss bada$$ but it's a pitty it takes her out of the bruce wayne girlfriend compettition i always liked her more than catwoman

Let's be honest,Talia was never in the GF competition,no one ever was against Catwoman,O'Neal tried really but he could'nt succeed either.Post-crisis i think the best Talia has been written by Morrison,Dixon and Rucka(before Death and maidens ofcourse).

Dude!? What about the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul? And what about the original romance between Talia and Bruce before Ra's was introduced, wasn't that written by Morrison? She's certainly in girlfriend competition. Well, maybe less now than back then, but she's not out of the game. Bruce cares only for two women romantically, and that's Selina and Talia.

A crossover spearheaded by Morrison and i have already adressed Denny,he tried and rather hard i might add(to the point where people actually believe he wanted to destroy Catwoman) but even he could'nt succeed.

it's kind of depressing when you get down to Bruces only two options I just plain out don't like catwoman and a badly written Talia is nuttier than squirrel poop

Why don't you like Catwoman?personally i would'nt mind Bruce with Black Canary or Zatanna.

personally i prefer Zatanna. i don't really like catwoman because 1 just find that too much of her in one sitting to be annoying this wouldn't be a problem if she wasn't the second most over used bat charecter after joker except joker kindof deserves it because he's relativly complex and because of his insanity diffrent writers can have him act and do diffrent things while catwoman is generally varying levels of the same annoying charecter. her motovation is being a glorified kleptomaniac she's usually depicted as having stolen enough to at least get by if not live a high society life but she does it for the thrill and charecters that do what they do for thrill alone just don't appeal to me. the cat theif thing is really cliche and imo should have been abandond with bat-mite. what really bothers me though is that i always saw her as two things a wannabe female batman who without his gadjets and level of training should have died along time ago (but this is comics so this is kinda invalid) and also as a sort of batman sidekick who rebelled against being a batman sidekick even though she doesn't know she's a batman sidekick the last thing is i'm pretty sure that when they made her they said "let's make an antibatman that's a woman batman can flirt with" and most anti main charecters (such as red hulk ) get on my bad side quickly

Interesting analysis.

thanks. I didn't always dislike her and i don't hate her unless Halle Berry is involved but i guess it really boils down to me having had enough of her for along while. that aside Zatanna desreves a chance