It never seems to poll in any Batman top 20 novel polls, but has that iconic Bane back-breaking scene in it....is it a good read? Why is it not that well loved?

I don't know why it's not. Its a very good read. It intoduces bane as a strong villian, features a ton of villians, and shows bruce in his moments of fear and doubt. Bruce even fears for the lives of Tim and dick. Jean Paul valley taking over as batman and bruce training with lady Shiva was really awesome to see too. Same with the fight between jean and Bruce. There are better bat books which is maybe why it isn't always at the top of lists but its a great read.

It is a great read. I personally love it.

Becuase while the back breaking scene is iconic the rest of the story is weak as hell and i hate everything that follows it. like Jean Pual Valley has an awsome costume but why Batman chooses him a person he barely knew to be Batman while his back is broken only seems to be exist to put tension on Bruce and Dick's relationship. Than Bruce being trained by lady shiva is BS they are equals he has nothing to learn from her and it is ultimately meaningless. Next comes the problem that Bruce isnt the one who defeats Bane which comepetely belittle the breaking of his back and just makes Batman look like a dumbass who has to clean up a giant mess he made. His back is fixed in the most ludacis fasion. When Bruce comes back he just blindly is ok with John being the new Batman and is going to retire until Tim tells him whats going on becuase its not like bruce can figure crap out on his own. The ending battle is cool but Batman retires again and leaves the mantle to Dick just so he can go on some BS jorney to "find himself" which is stupid becuase that should have been when i dought know when his freakin back was broken but no he had to have a boring relationship that ended so fast you wonder why they even bothered.

Dude he trained with Shiva because he needed someone equal to relearn his moves. He didnt learn anything from Shiva, he just remembered the moves by seeing her. He has forgot how to be Batman and he had to relearn what it felt to be Batman. He is ok with not being batman anymore because he forgot why he was Batman.

Yes the weakest part is what follows but those have a different name (Knightquest, Knightend and Prodigal).

Knightfall ends when Bane broke his back and I think that is the best part of the story.

And also some people have a very negative view on knightfall ^. But Bruce has his back broken by bane. He was scared and doubtful of himself after such a failure. It made sense for him to need to take a break and get back in the swing of things for batman.

It is definitely one of the best and most gut-wrenching Batman stories I have ever read. It is rare to see Bruce completely beaten at his own game, the rest of the story that follows is compelling.

@black_arrow: iam sorry that just nonsense "he forgot how to be Batman" he cant forget about that becuase thats who he is. Batman isnt his martial arts or gadgets or even being a dective. Batman is just a man who throws everything he possable has to protect people and he isnt going to learn that training with Lady Shiva

@jayc1324: first Batman is only scared of failing to save some one thats it getting his backbroken would only make him scared that while he has to heal more people are dieing.

Second no it dosnt make sense he would push his body even harder he would put himself into a kingdom come like suit before went off on some silly quest or whatever it is he was doing

@lordofthenorth: kingdom come isn't canon and Bruce was scared. He told Robin not to face bane because he was scared for his life.

@jayc1324: it dosnt matter if it is canon what matters is the actions and in kingdom come Bruce had pushed his body to the breaking point and instead of boo hooing about it be bult himself a suit to keep fighting now that specks volumes about batman as a character knightfall says nothing

Batman said nothing of the sort what he said was that the reason he didnt let Dick take up the mantal was becuase Dick would no dought go after Bane and it would get Dick killed but he isnt scared that would be nonsense Dick risks his life every day writers forget that and thats why we wind up with this stupidity and the stupidity thats going on in Forever evil

He forgot his moves That is the explanation that they gave in history and that is pretty logical because in martial arts if you don't train you will forget how to make some moves. Also he had to regain his state of peak human.

So you are saying that Batman is an idiot? he isn't stupid he wound t fight Azrael without regain his skill and his fitness

@lordofthenorth: it does matter if its canon. Its not the same batman. And yes he was scared for dick's life. That much is clear.

@black_arrow: you must not do martial arts becuase even if you dont do a move in 50 years dosnt mean you forget how to do it its that your body forgets how to do it the whole point of doing moves over and over and over again is to build muscle memory and yet again he dont need Shiva to do this nor to get back to peak human

iam sorry thous are two different things you said he had to train to remember how to be Batman not to get back to fighting shape so no i dont think Batman is an idiot i just think you have no idea what your talking about

@jayc1324: please thats like a superman fan complaining about TDKR its an excuse and yet again Batman would not be scared it dsont make sense does Batman piss himself everytime Dick goes out and fights crime i dont think so becuase guess what Dick is a HERO he can die at any moment so iam sorry no batman isnt scared becuase when you get down to it Dick could easily die from a straw bullet hitting him in the head

@lordofthenorth: He probably just needed to relearn how to do all the moves perfectly and get back in fighting shape. You don't come off an injury 100%.

Its not really an excuse. It's fact. Non canon, completely different situation, everything. And no he isn't scared every time dick goes out, just when bane is out there. Just proves how awesome bane is.

He need it to relearn his muscle memory. He says that. You may not forget but It much more easily if someone showed them to you and Batman needed to be a his peak as soon as possible to stop Jean Paul Valley.

I told you that he needed to relearn his moves with Shiva. And that he did the journey to find himself to relearn what meant to be Batman.

When Bane broke his back he did not only destroy him physically but also mentally (he needed the help from the inmates of Arkham to do both) and Batman needed to rebuilt it.

I really don't know either.The whole Knightfall saga is pretty good but at times it gets pretty weak but it is expected when this is such a big arc.But the first and second volume of the arc are amazing as well as the last one - Knightsend in which Bruce returns,trains under the mantle of Shiva and then comes the epic fight between him and Jean-Paul.I love the whole arc and it just happened that I reread it last night and remembered all of those great moments it had.

@jayc1324: yes your right you dont come off an injury 100% but that dosnt mean you need some one to reteach you moves you all ready know and you dont need some one else to get you in fighting shape.

Thats you trying to have your cake and eat it to you cant have it both ways ether he scared everytime Dick goes out or he dosnt Bane is just an enemy like another only a moron would be scared of him more so than some one like the Joker or Ra's and ether a stories that are nonconan matter or the dont situation be damned

@black_arrow: Ugh you dont need some one else to relearn muscle memory thats something you have to do yourself like i said by doing a move over and over again hell if he needed a partner he could have easily used Robin or Dick the only reason they used Lady Shiva was becuase it would be a cool moment in a pointless story

@lordofthenorth: He didn't need Shiva but it was quicker than sparring with dick or Tim.

And bane isn't like joker or ras. He broke Batman's back which no one else has done so it makes sense for him to be sacred he would do the same to dick or maybe even worse.

@jayc1324: thats just speculation

so what the Joker killed Jason Todd iam pretty sure if batman was going to tell Dick to stay away from any one it would be the Joker

@lordofthenorth: Shiva outclasses dick and Tim put together. It would be better to train with her than those two.

And Jason Todd was a crappy robin. Nightwing could easily take him

@jayc1324: maybe but in the comic all that happed was that she wanted him to kill some guy and he tricked her into believing he did and when you get down to ti he didnt even really need to train with her anything he did with her he could have done on his own

Your point? all Bane did was break Batman's back Joker killed his partner if your going to be scared of someone i image in thats one thats acctualy killed some one

@lordofthenorth: But like I said Jason sucked. He was the worst robin. Joker would never kill dick or Tim or even Damian. Whereas bane actually beat down batman and is a threat to all of them.

@jayc1324: Joker could have easily killed them all in Death of the family and the onlt reason he hasnt killed any other Robin is becuase people would complain that they are just repeating Death in the family and Bane broke Batman's back what else has he done awnser nothing

The first part was entertaining but after that it started to drag.

What's nice about going back to it, is that its a "Rogues Gallery" story that uses a lot of lessor known characters who were around at the time, as opposed to the same old villains we've seen over and over (though the most important villains still featured of course).

Stirk, Zsasz, Amygdala, The Ventriloquist, Firefly, these guys don't show up as often as they should.