Harper Row

#1 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

New member of the Bat-Family in the future, or one off character we'll never hear from again?

Personally, I like her, but wish she wouldn't be akin to a replacement for Oracle which Barbara should still be...

#2 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

New member of the Bat-Family in the future, or one off character we'll never hear from again?

Personally, I like her, but wish she wouldn't be akin to a replacement for Oracle which Barbara should still be...

I've said before now that she'd make a good replacement for Babs as Oracle.

She's resourceful, confident and smart to boot (considering her background she's very intelligent). She'd give something new to the Oracle role imo and I'd like to see how she interacts with the rest of the Bat-family.

#3 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because she can fix electrical wiring doesn't mean that she would have the hacker skills needed for Oracle. Perhaps as a replacement for Harold though? Personally, I wouldn't mind never seeing her again. There are too many members of the Bat Family being underutilized to justify bringing new people into the fold

#4 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

Perhaps as a replacement for Harold though?

That's more who I was thinking of. She is more of a Harold than an Oracle.

Maybe she can work with Spoiler, Misfit, and/or Black Alice...

#5 Posted by Funrush (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat said:

@Durakken said:

New member of the Bat-Family in the future, or one off character we'll never hear from again?

Personally, I like her, but wish she wouldn't be akin to a replacement for Oracle which Barbara should still be...

I've said before now that she'd make a good replacement for Babs as Oracle.

She's resourceful, confident and smart to boot (considering her background she's very intelligent). She'd give something new to the Oracle role imo and I'd like to see how she interacts with the rest of the Bat-family.

My thoughts, basically. And about the computer skills thing, maybe at one point, Barbara could teach her?

#6 Posted by BatWatch (2724 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

@r3d_rob1n said:

Perhaps as a replacement for Harold though?

That's more who I was thinking of. She is more of a Harold than an Oracle.

Maybe she can work with Spoiler, Misfit, and/or Black Alice...

Is Spoiler in the DCNU? I had not heard of her making an appearance except on Earth 2.

The DCNU could definitely use an Oracle...though why we do not have the original I will never know.

#7 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funrush said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Durakken said:

New member of the Bat-Family in the future, or one off character we'll never hear from again?

Personally, I like her, but wish she wouldn't be akin to a replacement for Oracle which Barbara should still be...

I've said before now that she'd make a good replacement for Babs as Oracle.

She's resourceful, confident and smart to boot (considering her background she's very intelligent). She'd give something new to the Oracle role imo and I'd like to see how she interacts with the rest of the Bat-family.

My thoughts, basically. And about the computer skills thing, maybe at one point, Barbara could teach her?

She seemed to be fairly skilled with computers anyway, was able to hack into CCTV footage of areas where Batman had appeared. Obviously not on par with Babs yet in terms of computer skills, but Barbara was there 24/7 using the Bat-computer and I'm sure if Harper spent enough time using it she'd pick up a lot in no time at all.

#8 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: I don't recall Spoiler making an appearance in Earth 2. Just because she may have never been Robin, doesn't mean that Steph couldn't take over as Batgirl while Barb was recovering from the gunshot.

#9 Posted by BatWatch (2724 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@PsychoKnights: I don't recall Spoiler making an appearance in Earth 2. Just because she may have never been Robin, doesn't mean that Steph couldn't take over as Batgirl while Barb was recovering from the gunshot.

Ah, well, you were talking about Harper working with Spoiler, and I thought maybe she had come into the main DCNU-verse at some point and I had missed it.

According to some blog I saw a couple weeks ago, Stephanie will be making an appearance in Earth 2 as Batman's protege, Nightwing. The blog had art to back it up and I think a story, but I do not recall to well. Take the info for whatever it is worth.

#10 Posted by The_Tree (7467 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights said:

@r3d_rob1n said:

@PsychoKnights: I don't recall Spoiler making an appearance in Earth 2. Just because she may have never been Robin, doesn't mean that Steph couldn't take over as Batgirl while Barb was recovering from the gunshot.

Ah, well, you were talking about Harper working with Spoiler, and I thought maybe she had come into the main DCNU-verse at some point and I had missed it.

According to some blog I saw a couple weeks ago, Stephanie will be making an appearance in Earth 2 as Batman's protege, Nightwing. The blog had art to back it up and I think a story, but I do not recall to well. Take the info for whatever it is worth.

I think you're getting Earth 2 mixed up with the Smallville Season 11 comic. Steph was originally supposed to appear in that series as Nightwing, until DC decided that they'd use Barbara Gordon instead because she's more "iconic".

Online
#11 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Idk tbh I think she's too ugly to be in the Bat family, maybeee she could be Harold but I kinda get the feeling Scott is just sycing her up and is gonna kill her off at the end of the Joker arc, for shock value.

#12 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

@YMCMB said:

Idk tbh I think she's too ugly to be in the Bat family, maybeee she could be Harold but I kinda get the feeling Scott is just sycing her up and is gonna kill her off at the end of the Joker arc, for shock value.

Doing things for pure shock value isn't really Scott's style... that being said, I am really getting the sense that she'll be killed in this Joker arc. Since all the Bat-family have their own ongoing books, Snyder can't kill any of them off... so he needs a new character to set up as Joker's cattle. I don't expect her to survive the arc.

#13 Posted by BatWatch (2724 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@PsychoKnights said:

@r3d_rob1n said:

@PsychoKnights: I don't recall Spoiler making an appearance in Earth 2. Just because she may have never been Robin, doesn't mean that Steph couldn't take over as Batgirl while Barb was recovering from the gunshot.

Ah, well, you were talking about Harper working with Spoiler, and I thought maybe she had come into the main DCNU-verse at some point and I had missed it.

According to some blog I saw a couple weeks ago, Stephanie will be making an appearance in Earth 2 as Batman's protege, Nightwing. The blog had art to back it up and I think a story, but I do not recall to well. Take the info for whatever it is worth.

I think you're getting Earth 2 mixed up with the Smallville Season 11 comic. Steph was originally supposed to appear in that series as Nightwing, until DC decided that they'd use Barbara Gordon instead because she's more "iconic".

You are right. My mistake. I didn't know they switched to Barbara. Wasn't Steph's hair color clearly visible? I guess they can change that pretty easily this early on.

@Imagine_Man15 said:

@YMCMB said:

Idk tbh I think she's too ugly to be in the Bat family, maybeee she could be Harold but I kinda get the feeling Scott is just sycing her up and is gonna kill her off at the end of the Joker arc, for shock value.

Doing things for pure shock value isn't really Scott's style... that being said, I am really getting the sense that she'll be killed in this Joker arc. Since all the Bat-family have their own ongoing books, Snyder can't kill any of them off... so he needs a new character to set up as Joker's cattle. I don't expect her to survive the arc.

That would be cheap. I'm sick of characters being introduced just to die. Comic stereotype.

#14 Posted by zexion_armando (81 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be happy if Harper died and we never saw from her again. Her face, her style, everything about her just screamed nasty and should go away. The half buzzed head and nose ring? Ugh.

I will be happy when Snyder introduces a clean Harper, or a dead one.

#15 Posted by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

@Imagine_Man15 said:

@YMCMB said:

Idk tbh I think she's too ugly to be in the Bat family, maybeee she could be Harold but I kinda get the feeling Scott is just sycing her up and is gonna kill her off at the end of the Joker arc, for shock value.

Doing things for pure shock value isn't really Scott's style... that being said, I am really getting the sense that she'll be killed in this Joker arc. Since all the Bat-family have their own ongoing books, Snyder can't kill any of them off... so he needs a new character to set up as Joker's cattle. I don't expect her to survive the arc.

AHEM,James Gordon jr and Thomas Wayne jr.

#16 Posted by danhimself (22548 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

Just because she can fix electrical wiring doesn't mean that she would have the hacker skills needed for Oracle. Perhaps as a replacement for Harold though? Personally, I wouldn't mind never seeing her again. There are too many members of the Bat Family being underutilized to justify bringing new people into the fold

I agree...we haven't seen anything of Cass or Steph in the DCnU and they're bring in a completely new female character...it's like they're spitting in our faces

#17 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

I see it going 3 ways

Harper dies and brother becomes villain

Harper's brother dies and she becomes a new Harold

one or both live or die and we never hear about them again.

I'm hoping for some variation of the second option.

#18 Edited by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

I do like her (not so much her appearance but her personality and her story). That being said, I do not want her to become Batman's new "Oracle". That's a role that belongs to Barbara as far as I'm concerned. But I do think it'd be interesting if she became a regular member of the Batfamily. A guy like Batman can never have enough allies and assets after all. I don't think her role will really be much like Harold's but I think it should be more similar to his role than to Oracle's.

Edit: Also, did I miss something with her hair? Because it was jumping all over the place in terms of appearance this issue.

#19 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly get the feeling that Damian is gonna stop being Robin. And someone is going to have to fill his spot. But thats just a hunch

#20 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

She seems like a female Jason Todd

1 - comes from a bad background

2 - issues with following orders

3 - serious independent streak

I can see why Bats does not want her around, she reminds him of one of his biggest failures

#21 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

Edit: Also, did I miss something with her hair? Because it was jumping all over the place in terms of appearance this issue.

Yes you did.

During the first few pages in the time line it was right after she found out that Batman needed help and before she got to the box to fix it.

After the first few pages it was the "start" of the story and she had long hair

When she came back her brother had had his hair messed up so she cut her hair to match it.

After that point it was short for the rest of the time

#22 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect said:

She seems like a female Jason Todd

1 - comes from a bad background

2 - issues with following orders

3 - serious independent streak

I can see why Bats does not want her around, she reminds him of one of his biggest failures

Not quite true

Jason Todd was clearly on the path to being a criminal. Harper isn't. In fact she is more on the path to being more like Catwoman, but within the system

She didn't have any problems with orders in the one example we are given. In fact, if you read into that exchange, Bruce was telling her she doesn't owe him, which she debated, but then Bruce said well you've paid me back. Bruce then took the same tact he has taken with every Batgirl save for Cassandra.

All of Bat-Family have an independent streak, especially the females. The only one that was ever really took Bruce's orders as iron clad was Dick and that was in a time when Bruce was less so cautious about getting other involved and such.

Also, if anyone is interested, though i doubt there is, I'm going to be posting more in depth about Batman #12 and Harper more completely on my site http://durakkenstudios.com tomorrow. ^.^

#23 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken:

My intention was not to say Jason Todd and Harper Row are an apples to apples comparison, just that they share enough to remind Bats of Todd and we all know how that guilt haunts him.

#24 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

@SupBatz said:

Edit: Also, did I miss something with her hair? Because it was jumping all over the place in terms of appearance this issue.

Yes you did.

During the first few pages in the time line it was right after she found out that Batman needed help and before she got to the box to fix it.

After the first few pages it was the "start" of the story and she had long hair

When she came back her brother had had his hair messed up so she cut her hair to match it.

After that point it was short for the rest of the time

Ah, I did not put all of that together when I first read. Thank you for clearing it up for me.

I get why she cut it short but I hope that in the future she changes it - not my favorite look.

#25 Posted by BlackPookie (640 posts) - - Show Bio

Harper Row is just Harper Row, a nice girl who saved bats and has some good skills... does that mean she is the ORACLE or Spoiler??? NO

damn it!

#26 Posted by ANOMALY0964 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Flame me if you want, but I am already tired of comics feeling like they have to incorporate gay characters into the stories...

#27 Posted by BlackPookie (640 posts) - - Show Bio

she aint gay! her bro is... who cares?...

it 's like a damn fashion or something... i just dont fucking care... all girls could become gay and leave the boys for me... lol

#28 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Harper is cool with me, I wouldn't mind seeing her stick around and become a staple in Bat's supporting cast. She doesn't seem like the kind of character who would be satisfied sitting behind a computer or even just fixing stuff around the cave so if she does join the family I'm guessing she'll be wearing a costume

#29 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: there isn't really a place for her right now though. Damian is going to be Robin for the considerable future, Babs is back as Batgirl, Spoiler identity shouldn't be taken as long as Steph is in limbo, and Batman doesn't have time to deal with another child sidekick. Harper is different than Harold in that she has a separate life of her own. Besides, I'm sure Bruce is going to be less likely to bring someone into the cave like that, especially after Harold sold him out to Hush (assuming that still happened) and the whole Jezebel Jet and the Black Glove scenario.

I think she is just a girl who had an inspirational story that helped to bridge the gap between Court of Owls and the next story arc. She may pop up again once in a while, but she doesn't deserve a spot on the full time Bat roster

#30 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: Snyder says that she is going to play an important role in the next arc and he hasn't lied to me yet so she's probably not going anywhere.

As for what role she could play there is a chance that she could be Robin, Morrison has hinted that his Batman inc saga will have a tragic end and will heavily involve Damian and change his status quo, I wouldn't put money on Damian going anywhere but it is a real possibility. Stephanie could be on earth 2 and the Spoiler could be open even but that's just a guess. We haven't seen Misfit for a while even before the new 52 so Harper could take that role. And of course she could take on a new identity even if it was one that was independent of the bat family similarly to Batwoman. Batman of all people would have time to train her given that he appears in about 6 books monthly so if she was going to don a mask time wouldn't be a problem. And even assuming that Hush and the Blackhand happened Batman has always had a soft spot for young people especially disadvantaged ones so I could see him trusting Harper enough to let her into the cave

#31 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: I hadn't seen that Snyder said she plays a role later on. I guess that changes things. I thought that it was mostly fans hoping that she stuck around in a new role.

#32 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@BlackArmor: I hadn't seen that Snyder said she plays a role later on. I guess that changes things. I thought that it was mostly fans hoping that she stuck around in a new role.

yep, unfortunately he wasn't clear on what role she's going to play (but I guess that would ruin it) but he was clear that she's going to be important

#33 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@BlackArmor: I hadn't seen that Snyder said she plays a role later on. I guess that changes things. I thought that it was mostly fans hoping that she stuck around in a new role.

To be fair. I've not read anything that Snyder has said.

@BlackArmor said:

@r3d_rob1n: Snyder says that she is going to play an important role in the next arc and he hasn't lied to me yet so she's probably not going anywhere.

As for what role she could play there is a chance that she could be Robin, Morrison has hinted that his Batman inc saga will have a tragic end and will heavily involve Damian and change his status quo, I wouldn't put money on Damian going anywhere but it is a real possibility. Stephanie could be on earth 2 and the Spoiler could be open even but that's just a guess. We haven't seen Misfit for a while even before the new 52 so Harper could take that role. And of course she could take on a new identity even if it was one that was independent of the bat family similarly to Batwoman. Batman of all people would have time to train her given that he appears in about 6 books monthly so if she was going to don a mask time wouldn't be a problem. And even assuming that Hush and the Blackhand happened Batman has always had a soft spot for young people especially disadvantaged ones so I could see him trusting Harper enough to let her into the cave

Misfit appeared, if I remember right near the end of pre-Flashpoint as pretty much fully accepted into the that world, but I I'm not 100% on that.

It would be stupid for Stephanie to be on Earth 2 v.v but that hasn't stopped them for quite a while...

She could take Sasha Bordeaux's place in terms of costume, but more over I don't think she needs anything like that. You just need a reason for Bruce to take her in and the death of her brother would be a good way to do that. I also think that she could play off any of the other Bat-family characters well. The thing I don't like about her is that she is pretty much a lift of Tim Drake's origin concept. Snyder did however set up a possible relationship with Tim which would be interesting, especially if she is going to be mainly hanging in the cave because that would create drama between Damian and her.

If she is just killed off. I'll just view it as more wasted potential and hope that there will be another reboot where someone realizes that it is a waste of a character and so she gets to come back.

#34 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: It seems to me like she is almost a mix of Tim and Jason's origins, except that unlike Jason she wants to help Bats. Not sure how her brother's death would require Bruce to take her in though, it seemed to me like she was the older sibling. It would be a good motivating point to get involved in the war on crime though.

Something tells me that Damian would just be able to give Drake a harder time for being nothing more than a pretty boy that attracts dudes.

I really hope that Steph isn't stranded on Earth 2. Without Batman on that Earth to help her out she would become a worthless character.

#35 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@Durakken: It seems to me like she is almost a mix of Tim and Jason's origins, except that unlike Jason she wants to help Bats. Not sure how her brother's death would require Bruce to take her in though, it seemed to me like she was the older sibling. It would be a good motivating point to get involved in the war on crime though.

With her brother there there is hope that she'll not fall into his lifestyle. Once her brother dies some tragic death she will force the issue and Bruce will realize there is no dissuading her.

#36 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

If she is just killed off. I'll just view it as more wasted potential and hope that there will be another reboot where someone realizes that it is a waste of a character and so she gets to come back.

I can't Imagine That Snyder will kill her off. Her brother however seems very killable because he can't defend himself and doesn't have any real notable purpose, I figure it would go like Tim's father with Batman and Harper rushing to save him but getting there to late and that inspires her to do something more

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