Does Batman, really need to know 127 martial arts?

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#1 Edited by Wolfrazer (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

Like why does he need to know that many? I can't really think of any reason, as to why he would have to know that many to take on the bad guys he fights. I could understand a few, but 127 just doesn't seem right it just looks like one of those things where you know said character has it but they don't really need it given what they already know.

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#2 Posted by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree unless knowing more martial arts can help you dodge bullets better you shouldnt need to know so many

#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

#4 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

TRUE

#5 Posted by Wolfrazer (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats not an answer sorry.

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#6 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

To beat the guy who knows only 126.

#7 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a guess, but maybe he likes to keep his fighting style from having a consistent pattern just encase a fellow martial artist recognizes it if Bruce Wayne needs to put up a fight himself or something...

#8 Posted by batshrine (995 posts) - - Show Bio

Every martial arts style has its flaws. So he has to be aware of all possibilities, and by knowing more he might learn better techniques for certain situations. ITs all about maximum efficacy.

#9 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

It really is just an absurd sort of self escalation to demonstrate that Batman is the absolute peak of all human abilities. We are led to believe that Batman is constantly training, improving, and evolving. As such, he would be continually learning new martial arts and new techniques to keep himself sharp and make himself better.

But, even with that being said, no, it is neither feasible nor necessary for him to know 127.

#10 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

#11 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

Before I even clicked on this thread this immediately came to mind.

#12 Posted by CODYSF (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

This answer is correct so could a mod locked this

#13 Posted by SoA (4838 posts) - - Show Bio

yes one style per rogue

#14 Posted by PowerHerc (84035 posts) - - Show Bio

No, they over did it with that one.

#15 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

He sure doesn't, there are so many useless arts. Aikido, kung fu, etc...

#16 Posted by Onemoreposter (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, yes he does.

#17 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

He can have as many goddamn martial arts as he wants because he's the goddamn Batman.

The obvious/right/awesome/badass answer

#18 Posted by Video_Martian (5645 posts) - - Show Bio

Because comics.

#19 Posted by Wolfrazer (6752 posts) - - Show Bio
@serpent222 said:

It really is just an absurd sort of self escalation to demonstrate that Batman is the absolute peak of all human abilities. We are led to believe that Batman is constantly training, improving, and evolving. As such, he would be continually learning new martial arts and new techniques to keep himself sharp and make himself better.

But, even with that being said, no, it is neither feasible nor necessary for him to know 127.

No folks, this is a right answer. Saying "because hes Batman" is just about as boring and old as Chuck Norris jokes. But ya serpent, thats what I was thinking on the same lines wasn't sure if it was because of some actual reason or whatever.
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#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

No, but it doesn't really matter what I say because despite me not saying a single negative thing about Batman there will be at least one fan boy who will attack me either here or on a PM for questioning any aspect of Batman

#21 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4733 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

@serpent222 said:

It really is just an absurd sort of self escalation to demonstrate that Batman is the absolute peak of all human abilities. We are led to believe that Batman is constantly training, improving, and evolving. As such, he would be continually learning new martial arts and new techniques to keep himself sharp and make himself better.

But, even with that being said, no, it is neither feasible nor necessary for him to know 127.

No folks, this is a right answer. Saying "because hes Batman" is just about as boring and old as Chuck Norris jokes. But ya serpent, thats what I was thinking on the same lines wasn't sure if it was because of some actual reason or whatever.

He's a thing of legend. Write a character who gets beat up a lot and see if it pays the bills.

#22 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer: Are you going to tell him he doesn't??!!

#23 Posted by PurpleCandy (773 posts) - - Show Bio

No no no 127? Don't be silly, he knows 128

#24 Posted by Trixie (127 posts) - - Show Bio

It's stupid.

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#25 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

@serpent222 said:

It really is just an absurd sort of self escalation to demonstrate that Batman is the absolute peak of all human abilities. We are led to believe that Batman is constantly training, improving, and evolving. As such, he would be continually learning new martial arts and new techniques to keep himself sharp and make himself better.

But, even with that being said, no, it is neither feasible nor necessary for him to know 127.

No folks, this is a right answer. Saying "because hes Batman" is just about as boring and old as Chuck Norris jokes. But ya serpent, thats what I was thinking on the same lines wasn't sure if it was because of some actual reason or whatever.

It's absurd when you look at it realistically. You have to understand the character of Batman, and most characters at DC, in comparison to characters like Spider-man, or most characters at Marvel. DC's characters are inspirational: they don't have any notable flaws in their powers: i.e., Batman's amazing training and knowledge are seemingly perfect, just like Superman is seemingly unbeatable. Of course they get beat up, but they are victorious in the end. On the other hand, characters in Marvel are relatable: they do have flaws, which make it possible for the average human being to relate to their experiences. I'm only just getting into Marvel, but I guess you could consider Deadpool relatable because he struggles with morality, or because his comedy is to hide his insecurities (just using Deadpool because he's the only one I've really read).

That archetype isn't perfectly sound, but you get the idea. Batman is impossibly strong and smart because that's part of his character. He's not terribly relatable, but he inspires the reader to act like he does (working hard, helping others, etc). That's why people say, "Because he's Batman." It reminds you that he's not meant to be a plausible character, and trying to make him one ruins the whole point of everything he is.

Not to say that being inspirational is more or less interesting than relatable. It's just different. I made this really long comment because I feel like this question--Batman's realism--is asked a lot, and not many people respond to the "fanboy" answer well.

#26 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

He probably used Prometheus's helmet somewhere during prep time

#27 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

He can know as much as martial arts as he wants.

#28 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely not, it's beyond overkill. It's sorta like having too many friends means you really have none. How can Batman (besides him being Batman) possibly master that many?

#29 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the best way to view it in terms of feasibility (if, of course, we accept that he knows that many martial arts), we can operate on a few assumptions:

  • Batman has not mastered 127 martial arts
  • Past experience and the fact he's batman DRASTICALLY cuts down the time it takes to learn new martial arts
  • His experience lets him pick and choose which techniques from different styles would be effective
  • He trains every day, and can focus on specific techniques from a different style each day
  • In the end, we have a Batman, who after 5-10 years, has mastered a basic core of styles (A grappling style, a kickboxing style, a competitive style, etc), and extended that knowledge to other styles, allowing him to hone in on the most effective techniques, which at the end of the day, allows for him to have a style that utilizes small factors from 127 styles.

If you want to accept that he actually mastered all of them, then the only appropriate answer is "because he's the goddamn batman."

#30 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

I just love how Batman alone is being singled out.

#31 Posted by Meat_Spinner (124 posts) - - Show Bio

No u gayz jus don understant, Batmen haz 2 lern evry figting style on teh world and be da best detective sports car boat plaine drivah master of disguise master of espionage geniuas engieneer master actor superbusinesman that runs his own companyeh and fihts tem crime in tights wit underage boiz to make it more realistik and belivable that wai!!!!111

#32 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers: LMAO!!

#33 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry to double post: felt the need to acknowledge how funny shamelesslywhatever was.

But, I do agree. I enjoy practicing martial arts in my spare time and if I was able to indulge all my spare time into training different martial arts I could only see a need to learn maybe 10 different ones.

I have found that no matter how varied martial arts appear to be, they all actually blend into each other. you can look at a lot of the harder destructive martial arts like Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, KickBoxing and so on and find that a lot of the strikes are covered by simply knowing 2 or 3 of them. Then you have the softer, more internal martial arts like Tai Chi. Or flexible practices like Yoga. You have general gymnastics to add and then grappling techniques specialised in Judo, Jujitsu, Pancreas, Wrestling and Aikido.

Then you got weapon control like Fencing, Kenpo, Kendo, Ninjitsu and Kung Fu as well as Wing Tsun specialise in weaponry control.

I suppose I can see Batman learning about 15 different martial arts, or only needing to remember about 15 at best. Aikido alone has many many many different locks and holds.. so does Krav Maga and Jujitsu. No matter how great Batmans mind is, the brain has not got the capacity to remember that much even with great meditative training.

I know it's the comic world, but Batman comics are usually more in the realms of realism in comparison to a lot of Marvel comics like Xmen and super power themed protagonists.

#34 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez: Akido isn't useless. It's core principles are using an opponent's momentum against themselves and pain-submission holds. If you think Batman never has to restrain someone or use their own force against themselves then you and I must know two different Batmen.

#35 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33469 posts) - - Show Bio

It's stupid and unnecessary writer fanwank

#36 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crash_Recovery: No it's useless, it has maybe one or two moves you can actually use in an actual combat setting. There have been aikido guys in mma and guess what they couldn't use any of their awesome aikido moves because it simply, does not work. Wrestling and Judo are the only sports that really teach you how to use a persons momentum against them in a practical way. There submissions are also bs, the best submissions are from bjj period. Ever wonder why the military has bjj taught to them and not aikido???

#37 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

Every martial arts style has its flaws. So he has to be aware of all possibilities, and by knowing more he might learn better techniques for certain situations. ITs all about maximum efficacy.

#38 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

@Crash_Recovery: No it's useless, it has maybe one or two moves you can actually use in an actual combat setting. There have been aikido guys in mma and guess what they couldn't use any of their awesome aikido moves because it simply, does not work. Wrestling and Judo are the only sports that really teach you how to use a persons momentum against them in a practical way. There submissions are also bs, the best submissions are from bjj period. Ever wonder why the military has bjj taught to them and not aikido???

Far from the topic, but I'm just going to chime in here for a second. If you're looking to be efficient in this regard, then, no, Aikido is not practical to learn. However, that is for the simple fact that Aikido is one of the longest martial arts in terms of time it takes to master. If you are a master of Aikido, it can be insanely helpful in battle, especially in the sorts of encounters and opponents Batman faces. But, granted how long it takes to get to the point where the moves are effective and like second nature, it might as well not be bothered with.

#39 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

The real question is does he really know that many martial arts, because if he did could Bane have really broken his back? Then think about this could Bane have did this to Iron Fist from marvel comics, whom doesn't know 127 different martial arts? Then ask yourself is Batman's reume boosted up? I say hell yes. don't get mad at me batfans, this is just my opinion. With the whole strike this nerve thing going on in martial arts and you're crippled, ya gotta wonder right, nah I forget Bat's is undefeatable. Just an honest opinion!

#40 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

can be helpful if he knows their individual potential but knowing all 127 ... maybe he just puts them in categories like "oh he uses Sambo so i just kinda... kick him in the balls... or at least that's what alfred wrote on this sheet of paper..."

#41 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

The real question is does he really know that many martial arts, because if he did could Bane have really broken his back? Then think about this could Bane have did this to Iron Fist from marvel comics, whom doesn't know 127 different martial arts? Then ask yourself is Batman's reume boosted up? I say hell yes. don't get mad at me batfans, this is just my opinion. With the whole strike this nerve thing going on in martial arts and you're crippled, ya gotta wonder right, nah I forget Bat's is undefeatable. Just an honest opinion!

A completely irrelevant comparison,martial arts had nothing to do with what Bane did to him.Do you people ever bother reading the stories you're so fond of referencing?@Jonny_Anonymous said:

It's stupid and unnecessary writer fanwank

Does this also apply to Captain America? or maybe Mr X? or Shiva,Cass etc,etc.@Red_Jack said:

Sorry to double post: felt the need to acknowledge how funny shamelesslywhatever was.

But, I do agree. I enjoy practicing martial arts in my spare time and if I was able to indulge all my spare time into training different martial arts I could only see a need to learn maybe 10 different ones.

I have found that no matter how varied martial arts appear to be, they all actually blend into each other. you can look at a lot of the harder destructive martial arts like Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, KickBoxing and so on and find that a lot of the strikes are covered by simply knowing 2 or 3 of them. Then you have the softer, more internal martial arts like Tai Chi. Or flexible practices like Yoga. You have general gymnastics to add and then grappling techniques specialised in Judo, Jujitsu, Pancreas, Wrestling and Aikido.

Then you got weapon control like Fencing, Kenpo, Kendo, Ninjitsu and Kung Fu as well as Wing Tsun specialise in weaponry control.

I suppose I can see Batman learning about 15 different martial arts, or only needing to remember about 15 at best. Aikido alone has many many many different locks and holds.. so does Krav Maga and Jujitsu. No matter how great Batmans mind is, the brain has not got the capacity to remember that much even with great meditative training.

I know it's the comic world, but Batman comics are usually more in the realms of realism in comparison to a lot of Marvel comics like Xmen and super power themed protagonists.

You're worried about him remembering MA? when we have guys like Luthor running around.How does he remember everything?

#42 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4733 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

You're worried about him remembering MA? when we have guys like Luthor running around.How does he remember everything?

Good point, but Luthor is more pedantic than a physically trained guru. With intense physical training it works on the same premise as like riding a bike, for example: my father was a golden gloves boxer and he was top of his class in wrestling. He hadn't trained and kept physically fit for years, not in the way it should require it. He took down a group of guys trying to mug our family and he ended up getting his arm slashed, but overall he decimated them. It was instinctual to utilize his few years of training, so with that in mind and if he had studied 127 forms of martial arts in the DC universe, my father would be Batman.

I think the thing that bothers most people about Batman is that he has no powers, no mystical qualities or a chip helping with the learning process. It's a tired argument.

I'm outy bo bouty.

#43 Edited by Wolfrazer (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

Folks again not saying its bad for him or anything of the sort, it just doesn't seem nessecary. Especially when he has all his other gadgets and what not going for him too.

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#44 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

@Batnandez said:

@Crash_Recovery: No it's useless, it has maybe one or two moves you can actually use in an actual combat setting. There have been aikido guys in mma and guess what they couldn't use any of their awesome aikido moves because it simply, does not work. Wrestling and Judo are the only sports that really teach you how to use a persons momentum against them in a practical way. There submissions are also bs, the best submissions are from bjj period. Ever wonder why the military has bjj taught to them and not aikido???

Far from the topic, but I'm just going to chime in here for a second. If you're looking to be efficient in this regard, then, no, Aikido is not practical to learn. However, that is for the simple fact that Aikido is one of the longest martial arts in terms of time it takes to master. If you are a master of Aikido, it can be insanely helpful in battle, especially in the sorts of encounters and opponents Batman faces. But, granted how long it takes to get to the point where the moves are effective and like second nature, it might as well not be bothered with.

When your opponent has to let you flip them its's pointless. Why would batman spend his time doing pointless crap when he could be doing something useful?

#45 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

@serpent222 said:

@Batnandez said:

@Crash_Recovery: No it's useless, it has maybe one or two moves you can actually use in an actual combat setting. There have been aikido guys in mma and guess what they couldn't use any of their awesome aikido moves because it simply, does not work. Wrestling and Judo are the only sports that really teach you how to use a persons momentum against them in a practical way. There submissions are also bs, the best submissions are from bjj period. Ever wonder why the military has bjj taught to them and not aikido???

Far from the topic, but I'm just going to chime in here for a second. If you're looking to be efficient in this regard, then, no, Aikido is not practical to learn. However, that is for the simple fact that Aikido is one of the longest martial arts in terms of time it takes to master. If you are a master of Aikido, it can be insanely helpful in battle, especially in the sorts of encounters and opponents Batman faces. But, granted how long it takes to get to the point where the moves are effective and like second nature, it might as well not be bothered with.

When your opponent has to let you flip them its's pointless. Why would batman spend his time doing pointless crap when he could be doing something useful?

Saying that Aikido does not work in a fight is like saying Bruce Lee couldn't have fought in MMA. Western martial arts that you often see in UFC, etc. are usually far less technical than Eastern ones. It might be easier to pick up a Western martial art and use in a fight, but if you develop a mastery of an Eastern one you can be just as capable.

#46 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on what you mean "know"

There are only so many way to flip a person, break a bone, knock someone out, etc and one or two is going to be more effective than the rest. Further it depends on how good you are at grasping core concepts and applying them to a technique as well as transferring knowledge to practical skill. Bane, for example trained, his body and needed to master the position of his body at all times due to being in darkness and solitary confinement for most of his life. Tie that together with an eidetic memory and all you have to do is read books and apply core concepts to precise movements which he'd be used to doing.

To say you know 127 martial arts could mean you simply know the core katas of those 127 arts. Further martial arts are often past down 1 master to 1 student in terms of the higher levels of master level arts so he definitely didn't master all of those. That leaves us to him learning core skills and applying those core skills to a large array of other arts which he picked up very quickly to a moderately high degree, while skipping the lower levels due to the same mastery of core concepts. We also know he was given the ultimate secrets of several arts, but I highly doubt he mastered every style out there, If he had he'd be ranked a lot higher in 1vs1 combat or however you want to say it. Shiva keeps a list of the top 10 and Bruce isn't on it... though Tim and Bruce have both beat the top people on the list.

#47 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33469 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: it sure does

#48 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez: You make that assumption on aikido from watching UFC matches? News flash; most of those guys on UFC and MMA are brutish chumps. The two guys who had aikido training probably didn't know how to apply it to UFC and they probably weren't grizzly enough in themselves to go toe to toe with their opponents.

#49 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14698 posts) - - Show Bio

He already explained why countless of times, he learned 127 types of martial arts so his attacks are unpretictable. If you have a problem with that well......

#50 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Red_Jack said:

@Batnandez: You make that assumption on aikido from watching UFC matches? News flash; most of those guys on UFC and MMA are brutish chumps. The two guys who had aikido training probably didn't know how to apply it to UFC and they probably weren't grizzly enough in themselves to go toe to toe with their opponents.

That and the lack of self interest that the company or someone well trained in Akido would have in fighting in MMA. If I remember right, every technique, or just about, in Akido is designed to break bone, paralyze, or kill your opponent. That's not something you want or can use in a regulated fighting organization where the lose of a fighter means a lose of profits which everyone is there for.

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