Death Of The Family: Someone's 'Bout To Die

#1 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

In this Death of the Family arc, it's almost certain at least one character will either be maimed or dead. So, in your opinion, who will it be? And as a side note, WHAT IS THIS SECRET that Joker and Batman only know?

#2 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

Alfred will almost definitely be left either maimed (at least blind) or will be killed.

#3 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

And as a side note, WHAT IS THIS SECRET that Joker and Batman only know?

Um... haven't you read Batman #15?

#4 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler Yes, but I still fail to see the secret. Was it the thing with the card?

#5 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman: Yes, that was the secret.

#6 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler Well that's lame. That's barely a secret. I can't wait until it's elaborated upon.

#7 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman: It is a secret. Joker possibly entering the Cave is a pretty big deal and Batman didn't tell anyone.

#8 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler But I kind of agree with Batman's view. It's immpossible for The Joker to get in.

#9 Edited by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

@SmashBrawler But I kind of agree with Batman's view. It's immpossible for The Joker to get in.

If he did get in to plant the card, it's a pretty big deal. It changes how we should view the entirety of Joker's actions up until now.

If he knew who each of the members of the family were, it begs the question as to how come the outcomes of his ploys and games weren't more severe? The answer is that he was only ever really messing around. This time it's less of a game and his intent is lot more sinister - I think Synder wants us to feel as though there's an end game for Joker this time around. Joker is, right now, a lot more dangerous than he ever has been before.

#10 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine Now that I agree with. This is definetely an entirely different dynamic with Joker. I'm scared FOR the Family. Too bad it's only about one issue a month. But I guess I can't wrap my head around the Joker really knowing their identities.

#11 Posted by MrShway88 (677 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I don't think anyone will die. I think the relationship between the bat-family will be weaken instead. I also think that there's more to the secret. I'm expecting a "Batman #10" type of surprise.

#12 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

In terms of death, I really figure that if anyone dies, it's Joker. But if one of the family does him in, that would ALSO lead to their exile and break down the family itself.

#13 Edited by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

In terms of death, I really figure that if anyone dies, it's Joker. But if one of the family does him in, that would ALSO lead to their exile and break down the family itself.

Hoping it's Jason.

#14 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio
What IF Joker didn't get in the Batcave... Who left the card?... What IF it was someone whose been in the Cave several times?  Who would do that though?  Dick? Has he finally snapped, and is tired of living under the Bats shadow?  Damian? Would Bruces own son betray him?  Tim? Did he have a change of heart? Did the Joker brainwash him?  Barb? Is she now Mr. J's new Harley?  I mean why is Bats so SURE the Joker never stepped foot in the Batcave?  XP  (+)
#15 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One said:

What IF Joker didn't get in the Batcave... Who left the card?... What IF it was someone whose been in the Cave several times? Who would do that though? Dick? Has he finally snapped, and is tired of living under the Bats shadow? Damian? Would Bruces own son betray him? Tim? Did he have a change of heart? Did the Joker brainwash him? Barb? Is she now Mr. J's new Harley? I mean why is Bats so SURE the Joker never stepped foot in the Batcave? XP (+)

Timeframes would exclude all members of Bat family save for Bruce and Alfred.

#16 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@serpent222 said:

In terms of death, I really figure that if anyone dies, it's Joker. But if one of the family does him in, that would ALSO lead to their exile and break down the family itself.

Hoping it's Jason.

Hoping Jason is the one who kills Joker? Me too. I think he's just become Nightwing light with some more angst in the new 52. I'd love to see that character turn.

#17 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio
@John Valentine:  Really everyone?
They're all accounted for?  That sucks I keep thinking about the  "I made my own Robin" thing I read somewhere.  Oh well it was a fun thought (+)
#18 Posted by Jean199999 (548 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One: I'd cry if Babs were revealed as the traitor, I don't think I can handle something like this.

#19 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jean199999 said:

@Yung ANcient One: I'd cry if Babs were revealed as the traitor, I don't think I can handle something like this.

The fan rage would blot out the sun. They'd need a new new new 52 with a picture of Scott Synder on his knees begging and a letter of apology to get those fans back.

That being said, I don't think there's a traitor. I think Jason is going to kill the Joker and there's going to be lines drawn between who agrees with what happened and who doesn't.

Nightwing Red Robin and Jason being okay with it.

Batman Robin and Batgirl being against it.

#20 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One said:

What IF Joker didn't get in the Batcave... Who left the card?... What IF it was someone whose been in the Cave several times? Who would do that though? Dick? Has he finally snapped, and is tired of living under the Bats shadow? Damian? Would Bruces own son betray him? Tim? Did he have a change of heart? Did the Joker brainwash him? Barb? Is she now Mr. J's new Harley? I mean why is Bats so SURE the Joker never stepped foot in the Batcave? XP (+)

I dont know how feasible this is but I like the "Outside the box" mentality you've employed in this post. I agree in the sense that I think the "big reveal" is more then the Joker getting into the Bat-Cave and leaving his card.

#21 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler:

Wait! Uncle Phillip! He's UNCLE PHILIP!!!

#22 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@Gambler:

Wait! Uncle Phillip! He's UNCLE PHILIP!!!

if he can get into the Bat-Cave then Batman needs to quit.

#23 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar:  I'm a little bit indifferent about Tim, and Damian. For me Damian would be more OK with Jason's act than Tim would. IMO (+)
#24 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: Philip Wayne :P

@Yung ANcient One: I think Damian wouldn't betray his father's ideology like that not anymore.

#25 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4873 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar:  Good point. (+)
#26 Posted by ScarletBatman (366 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's my end game prediction:

A big, crazy brawl occurs in Arkam. Alfred is murdered. The family tries in vain to defeat the Joker. Eventually Bruce will be forced to compromise his values to save his family... By killing the Joker. When the dust clears, the family is shocked and dismayed at what Bruce did. With Alfred dead, the glue that kept the family together through the tough times is gone. The family is sundered as the more idealistic members of the family break away. At the end of all things, Bruce is left with only Damian... And eventually Harper Row (who becomes a huge part of Bruce's life and, after a fashion, replaces Alfred in the Bat Cave).

#27 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

@SmashBrawler But I kind of agree with Batman's view. It's immpossible for The Joker to get in.

That's the big debate though, right? Did Joker get in? Or is it all a hoax? So far there hasn't been any proof that the Joker got in or that he knows everyone's identity, but that might just be Snyder's way of misleading us.

#28 Posted by danhimself (22682 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yung ANcient One said:

What IF Joker didn't get in the Batcave... Who left the card?... What IF it was someone whose been in the Cave several times? Who would do that though? Dick? Has he finally snapped, and is tired of living under the Bats shadow? Damian? Would Bruces own son betray him? Tim? Did he have a change of heart? Did the Joker brainwash him? Barb? Is she now Mr. J's new Harley? I mean why is Bats so SURE the Joker never stepped foot in the Batcave? XP (+)

the card was left before anyone else was recruited

#29 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

@John Valentine said:

@serpent222 said:

In terms of death, I really figure that if anyone dies, it's Joker. But if one of the family does him in, that would ALSO lead to their exile and break down the family itself.

Hoping it's Jason.

Hoping Jason is the one who kills Joker? Me too. I think he's just become Nightwing light with some more angst in the new 52. I'd love to see that character turn.

Yep yep, would be entirely fitting. Joker needs to be stopped once and for all and none of the members of the Bat Family, especially Bruce, are able to do what is necessary. Jason is.

#30 Edited by SupBatz (1814 posts) - - Show Bio

It should probably be mentioned that...

...A lot of people (especially on the Vine) say that Joker should be killed once and for all and that it makes no sense that he's still alive...

However, I haven't really heard anyone argue that killing Joker may not the easiest task...

Even if we don't take into account how over-powered Snyder's Joker appears to be, the Joker in general is like Batman in the regad that he always seems to have a big plan. I doubt that anyone who tried to kill him would really even succeed. In fact, Batman may be the only person (of the Gotham chaarcter) truly capable of killing Joker - and by capable here I do not mean that he would do it, just that he may be the only one able to out-maneuver the Joker enough to actually kill him. And the fact that Batman would never do such a thing makes this idea even more bittersweet.

Online
#31 Posted by ScarletBatman (366 posts) - - Show Bio

There's not a lot of emotional resonance if Jason is the one who offs the Joker. He's the obvious choice, in fact he's the only member of the family that can do it without compromising who and what s/he is. That means there's no pay off or consequences if Jason is the man who does it. It has to be someone else, preferably someone who is either Bruce or has a very close relationship with him, like Dick or Damian. Of course, they could go for the big splash and have Barbara do it, goodness knows she has a reason to do it AND it is against her moral compass (therefore, interesting).

I still think, if the Joker has to die, Bruce will be the one who does it. He's the lead character in the story arc and it is his self-titled comic that is leading the charge, therefore, it makes the most sense for him to do it.

Of course, we could be looking at this all wrong. Maybe Bruce will have to choose between saving the Joker and saving a bat family member Maybe Bruce makes the wrong decision and saves the Joker. That could easily sunder the family.

#32 Posted by Shipster360 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Joker is going to greatly damage Tim's mind. kind of like in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker and I think one of the Batfamily will be the cause of the death of another in some way leading to the death of the whole family in a way.

#33 Edited by Zereta (78 posts) - - Show Bio

My bet's on Damian. This is from reading the solicits.

Maybe not dead, I could see a Batman Beyond-esqe turn.

Another one could be Joker himself? He is, after all, family.

#34 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

This may sound absurd, but maybe Batman himself is under the Joker's influence? Like Batman will LITERALLY be the one who kills off the family. It would make sense with the cover of #15 with Joker in Batman's head.

#35 Posted by TDK_1997 (15079 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing about the card is something really interesting but I can't see him entering and if actually someone from the inside left it.....Things are big and I can't wait to see how this will end.

#36 Posted by homosexuality (63 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Tim dies.

#37 Posted by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

While I want Jason to do it, IF someone does do it, I actually think it will be Babs. Apparently most people don't think so. Obviously she has a reason to, but beyond that, if even the slightest bit of pre-new 52 stories are in tact, there are MANY occasions while she is Oracle that she tries to compel or encourage other people to do the deed. I figure that Joker will kill her mother, and then she will be influenced by James to finally do the deep herself.

...Or for a real curveball, James could do it and frame Babs for it. But that would be more of a route to go if the arc was mostly about Batgirl, which is clearly not the case.

#38 Posted by mhanuroth (208 posts) - - Show Bio

For me, Alfred will kill the joker because he will be in the asylum and he is emotional connected to bruce than any other member, and when he will see the joker trying to kill Batman, he will kill him. After that, the police will send alfred to jail destroying the family

#39 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Alfred might die. Possibly Babs mom as well. Also I think Joker really did get in the Batcave. Bruce's theory on how the card got there is just silly lol. Bats is in denial.

#40 Edited by wessaari (632 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn: 100% agree, it was frustrating watching that scene, because he is either scared out of his mind, or is lying to himself.

Alfred will either die, be rendered blind or be left in a very fragile state. Other than that, i think that dynamic of the Bat-family is already starting to unravel. Bruce witheld info that could have been necesary, and it is in that ignorance that the family will be destroyed.

Everyone is going to suffer, and Dick (from the solicits and Kyle's own word) has said that Nightwing is going in a new direction, and that Dick will be left in a very lost place. Damian will have lost trust in his father, jason will most likely be left isolated with Bruce being the one to try and help him (it might make sense that Jason kills Joker, that way Bruce would want to help him be Wingman in Batman Inc. even though i cant stand that series). Babs is already mad at Bruce, and she will most likely undergo some heavy mental torture, which will lead her to leaving the Bat-Clan.

#41 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@Glitch_Spawn: 100% agree, it was frustrating watching that scene, because he is either scared out of his mind, or is lying to himself.

Alfred will either die, be rendered blind or be left in a very fragile state. Other than that, i think that dynamic of the Bat-family is already starting to unravel. Bruce witheld info that could have been necesary, and it is in that ignorance that the family will be destroyed.

You got it!

#42 Posted by JoeEddie (484 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

I really figure that if anyone dies, it's Joker.

#43 Posted by Spawn92 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

THeres a lot of interesting theories here! I honestly think it will go one of either three ways:

  1. Joker kills Alfred. None of the family can kill Joker, and he gets away. This is the most logical choice for DC, as they don't lose an active member of the bat family with their own title, and they can bring back Joker whenever (Im sure he will pop up in the movie reboot somewhere).
  2. Alfred kills Joker. He sees what Joker has done to his family, and like an enraged father, finally decides to end it. The police will show up and Alfred will probably turn himself in.
  3. DC really shocks everyone and has a less suspecting character like Robin or Batgirl kill Joker. Like everyone's been saying, this causes dissension among the family, and the family all go their separate ways.

But who knows? DC could do something completely different.... like introducing Azrael who kills Joker for some "higher purpose" or whatever.

#44 Posted by Mediumguy (166 posts) - - Show Bio

@Spawn92 said:

THeres a lot of interesting theories here! I honestly think it will go one of either three ways:

  1. Joker kills Alfred. None of the family can kill Joker, and he gets away. This is the most logical choice for DC, as they don't lose an active member of the bat family with their own title, and they can bring back Joker whenever (Im sure he will pop up in the movie reboot somewhere).
  2. Alfred kills Joker. He sees what Joker has done to his family, and like an enraged father, finally decides to end it. The police will show up and Alfred will probably turn himself in.
  3. DC really shocks everyone and has a less suspecting character like Robin or Batgirl kill Joker. Like everyone's been saying, this causes dissension among the family, and the family all go their separate ways.

But who knows? DC could do something completely different.... like introducing Azrael who kills Joker for some "higher purpose" or whatever.

#2 is wrong. Alfred kills Joker, police show up, Alfred gets a parade in his honor.

#45 Posted by Spawn92 (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mediumguy: Hahaha! afterwards, Alfred decides to become the new Dark Knight... Batfred!!!

#46 Posted by gettogaara (164 posts) - - Show Bio

I've gone through multiple different theories as the story line has been going along. At first, I was pretty convinced Joker was going to kill someone. Mainly Alfred. Now though I'm more leaning towards the idea of the family itself being broken up. I think someone's going to just snap and kill him but I don't think it's going to be someone obvious like Damien or Jason. I mean how many times is Damien going to kill someone and then be criticized by Bruce? Jason kills all the time so it's not like it would be some sort of big surprise. If Barbara(who I feel probably has the most reason to do it) was to kill him though then everyone would be shocked.

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