Damn you Frank Miller!!!!!

#1 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I want my money back for All-Star Batman #5. I was giving Miller a chance to redeem himself (since I've never liked his stuff, and I know that makes me in a huge minority), but he frickin' ruined everything.

Watching his complete mischaracterization of Wonder Woman, the twisted relationship of hers with Clark, making Hal into a pansy, making Plastic Man not funny, turning Batman into a sadistic but loony version of Midnighter, AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

I kept thinking, "Any second now, this is going to turn out to be some twisted, alternate reality, and everything will work the way it should."

I may actually rip a comic in half, something which I've never done before. I'll voluntarily read The Authority, every issue ever from beginning to end before I pick another one of these.

And please, don't anybody say that I should be more open and accepting of re-envisioning old, iconic characters. They're iconic for certain reasons. You can't just strip away the essence of who they are, stick them in the same costume, and say they're the same person. Bollocks!

At least the art was beautiful. I love me some Jim Lee artwork.

#2 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

Daaaaamn. Tell us how you really feel :)

Moderator
#3 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh crap, all-star #5 is out?

#4 Posted by G-Man (31838 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually got into a conversation at the comic shop about Frank's work of late. It's like he's just trying to be extreme with his writing. Sure I get that Wonder Woman's an amazon and all but she just seemed so out of character. And Batman laughing? WTF?!? Oh and nice variant cover Mr. Miller. I take it you don't have any respect for female characters? This isn't Sin City. This should be an Elseworld. Jim Lee is the only reason I'd buy it. And I really really don't buy that the lateness is all on him. Trust me.

Staff
#5 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I agree. I'll say that, while I've never liked his stuff, I at least respected his writing. Like with Dark Night, I didn't particularly care for his story, or storytelling, but he did define Batman for the next generation. Now, it's just all sensationalism so he can create a buzz and have yet another picture taken of him looking like a jerk.

#6 Posted by ScoodleDaddle (646 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate Frank Miller with every ounce of my being.

I've not read a single issue of this comic.

Just thought I would put that out there.

#7 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

How can you hate the guy when you haven't read his stuff? I liked a lot of his previous stuff but I must admit... all I buy all-star batman for is Jim Lee's art.

#8 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I am kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2.

And yes I know what I said. Wildcats is coming out slower than All Star Bats, but Wildcats is something I'll wait for. At least until I read more.
Post Edited:2007-05-17 00:20:56

Moderator
#9 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I *am* kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2."

I'm not really into Wildcats so I don't know how long it takes to get published... but is it like Aspen Comics? lol

#10 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I *am* kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2."

That's along time. You must be a very patient person cause your gonna be waiting another two years at least.

Moderator
#11 Posted by G-Man (31838 posts) - - Show Bio

I never read issue #1. I figured I'd wait until right before issue #2 came out. It was supposed to come out in March.

Staff
#12 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I *am* kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2.And yes I know what I said. Wildcats is coming out slower than All Star Bats, but Wildcats is something I'll wait for. At least until I read more.
Post Edited:2007-05-17 00:20:56"

I feel your pain. I wish Wildcats would come out also. Sorry for the Authority crack, but you know how much I dislike that title, so I knew it would make my point. I like you, in spite of your love of The Authority.

#13 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Prurience Man says:

"Buckshot says:
"Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I *am* kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2.And yes I know what I said. Wildcats is coming out slower than All Star Bats, but Wildcats is something I'll wait for. At least until I read more.
Post Edited:2007-05-17 00:20:56"

I feel your pain. I wish Wildcats would come out also. Sorry for the Authority crack, but you know how much I dislike that title, so I knew it would make my point. I like you, in spite of your love of The Authority."

And I like you in spite of your hate for The Authority. Didn't know you were a WildCats fan though. Good to hear.

Moderator
#14 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Prurience Man says:
"Buckshot says:
"Even with the whole attack on the Authority, I'm glad I read this. I wasn't buying it anyway (comes out too slow and I didn't really like the first issue I read) but it's good to know I'm not missing anything. I *am* kinda mad about the Jim Lee thing. He's over here drawing for this (apparently) crap book and not spending any time on Wildcats. I've been waiting for like 23 years for issue 2.And yes I know what I said. Wildcats is coming out slower than All Star Bats, but Wildcats is something I'll wait for. At least until I read more.
Post Edited:2007-05-17 00:20:56"

I feel your pain. I wish Wildcats would come out also. Sorry for the Authority crack, but you know how much I dislike that title, so I knew it would make my point. I like you, in spite of your love of The Authority."

And I like you in spite of your hate for The Authority. Didn't know you were a WildCats fan though. Good to hear.

"

I'm not a huge fan, but I did really enjoy it when it first came out. Had to drop it though, because that was the university years, and I thought I should spend more money on bills and my girlfriend (now wife), so I dropped down to pretty much just X-titles and Superman/JLA type stuff. Long story short, I have much Wildcats to catch up on.


Post Edited:2007-05-17 00:37:00

#15 Posted by G-Man (31838 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read WildCATS since the 90s. Never read the 2.0 stuff or anything. Actually I did read one (don't ask me witch) but I wasn't too crazy about the art. I liked the original characters when Image was booming. I only picked up #1 because Lee was back on. And didn't Morrison write it? It's been so long since I bought it I forgot.

Staff
#16 Posted by ScoodleDaddle (646 posts) - - Show Bio

zeroEDGE says:

"How can you hate the guy when you haven't read his stuff? I liked a lot of his previous stuff but I must admit... all I buy all-star batman for is Jim Lee's art."

I've read his stuff, but not All-Star Bats.

#17 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I woke up this morning still pissed about this.


Post Edited:2007-05-17 11:30:09

#18 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

I finally read it... good thing this is out of continuity... although it was pretty funny he kept on laughing

#19 Posted by Sora (5 posts) - - Show Bio

It is not his best work.

#20 Posted by Flying Fox (98 posts) - - Show Bio

I read All-Star Bats for a good laugh. I don't see it as being entirely serious so I don't take it as such.

#21 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

@ original post:

You can't pick up a Frank Miller book and expect it to be innocent. It just doesn't work that way.

#22 Posted by Akhbour (70 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, damn you Frank Miller, you inspired me way too much! :-D

#23 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, genius!

#24 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

octagon_enigma says:

"@ original post:You can't pick up a Frank Miller book and expect it to be innocent. It just doesn't work that way."

Never expected it to be innocent. I expected it not to be a stupid waste of my cash. I think I've already explained very well what my problem with the issue was.

#25 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank Miller and Alan Moore are for the most part liked more by people who don't normally enjoy comics then actual comics readers themselves. This is mostly because they tend to focus very, very heavily on bite-sized story arcs that are consumable and all-inclusive for non-comic fans and because they are more literary then comicy. They also tend to avoid and ignore comic histories and pre-established conventions (things most REAL comic fans care very dearly about) in favor of original story and mood.

I'd have to admit the same for me. Call me a bastard, but I find 90% of the comics I read utter garbage. While I admit to being very interested in comic lineage and history from a historical and evolutional perspective, I care very little about canon as a whole and would rather read a cool story, then care about how it relates to that characters history.

Part of making comicvine was because of that. I simply hated reading stuff and having no idea what was going on because I missed a certain story arc when I was 15 years old. Ok that's not a very good excuse about why Frank Miller can't read up on Green Lantern, but I'm just saying I'm just saying I'd much prefer that then to the See Robin Issue#12 tie-in structure of the X-Men era.

Also these are just my beliefs. They have nothing to do with what I think about the importance of histories when it comes to Comic Vine, as that is the main focus and premise of the site. I'm just talking about my opinion when it comes to opening up a Frank Miller comic vs. Chris Claremont. Give me Miller any day.

/puts on a flame-suit

Staff
#26 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I hear you, Cap. I guess my biggest problem came from thinking that the title was going to have much closer ties to canon than it actually does. I don't mind the stories that deviate heavily from the "normal" history, and actually enjoy them quite a bit. The problem with me was more my expectation that the characters would be portrayed closer to their mainstream titles than they actually were. That's just me.

I would probably praised the issue as inventive if it had shipped with the "Elseworlds" imprint on it.

#27 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally hear you on that and agree. They just need to give him a Millerverse already.

Staff
#28 Posted by IllKidSpaidamonki (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey! loosen up Maan!!! the Batman by Frank Miller is great. I don't entirely agree with having Bats like that permanently in the retconned continuity, but his views are fresh (and He's an "old" dude. check it out - a perfect blend of wanton violence, comedy/humor, and perspectives. How easy do you think it would be to convert a traumatized kid into a Boy-wonder (Even if he was born to do that)? - Amswer: Not Easy. I AM the greatest Batman fan in the world, but even I, have to admit that he has to be a little crazy (not to mention PSYCHO) to remain and BE-The Batman. Think about it.

PS: I love his unshaven appearance too, Wayy too cool. Thanks Jim Lee. I owe ya!

#29 Posted by IllKidSpaidamonki (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I catch yer drift Prodigious Man. else world however is a li'l too far from here. Believe me, when it comes to "old fashioned", they dont come older than ME!

PS: I'm 31.

I'm a stickler for tradition but then, I really felt Miller's interpretations or rather- perspectives. If ya hated it, what would you say aboot stan Lee's "Imagine" series on DC Characters?

#30 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

IllKidSpaidamonki says:

"Now I catch yer drift Prodigious Man. else world however is a li'l too far from here. Believe me, when it comes to "old fashioned", they dont come older than ME!PS: I'm 31.I'm a stickler for tradition but then, I really felt Miller's interpretations or rather- perspectives. If ya hated it, what would you say aboot stan Lee's "Imagine" series on DC Characters?"

Heh, age wise I've got you beat. So far I know I'm the second oldest member of the Vine (that has publicly stated their age at least), but not by a huge amount.

Again, I think I've been clear on why this upset me. I realize this title is not in continuity, and I thought Miller's Dark Knight Returns was good stuff (but I don't bow before it like many others do). As I already stated, my problems lies with the complete mischaracterization of these classic heroes. (Read my initial post for those.) The All-Star line is clearly out of continuity, but I had thought that its original intent was to re-envision the characters without creating a whole new mythos. I was obviously wrong. I didn't dislike it because it was imaginative or out of the ordinary. Like I said, I would have likely had high praise for the issue if it were clearly marked as an Elseworlds title.

As for Stan Lee's Imagine line, I thought it was just that, imaginative. I'm glad that they kept it entirely separate from regular continuity. Even now, though, it is literally "Bleeding" through into Ion as part of the new DC 52 multiverse, but I'm ok with that too, since it is not part of the "Earth-1" continuity.

All in all, I'm way over it, but I still won't buy the next issue.

By the way, welcome to the Vine.

#31 Posted by The Bunker Buster (22 posts) - - Show Bio

you suck.

#32 Posted by The Endgame (34 posts) - - Show Bio

The Bunker Buster says:

"you suck."

Good first post (sarcasm).

#33 Posted by Gottheit (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this the one where his relationship with Robin is all, like, creepy and stuff? I hear from a friend that he enjoyed it...

#34 Posted by CaptainCockblock (3672 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank Miller (although I respect him greatly for his early work) is dreadfully over the hill. Dark Knight Strikes Again was acceptable, but nowhere near justifiable as a Batman story. Or any story for that matter. Somebody needs to give Frank Miller his pills so he stops going crazy and just writes and draws as damn well as he used to.

#35 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainCockblock said:
" Frank Miller (although I respect him greatly for his early work) is dreadfully over the hill. Dark Knight Strikes Again was acceptable, but nowhere near justifiable as a Batman story. Or any story for that matter. Somebody needs to give Frank Miller his pills so he stops going crazy and just writes and draws as damn well as he used to. "
Oh, wait, he didn't take his pills? ....uh oh. *Looks at my hand - holding his pill bottle*
 
......... I'll um.... be right back....
#36 Posted by G'bandit (13689 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe the Joker invaded Miller's house O_O

#37 Posted by Bankstar21 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Why batman though :( why jim lee :(

#38 Posted by CaptainCockblock (3672 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123:  XD Run Charlie! Run home as fast as you can and don't stop for anybody! 
 
Seriously, Frank needs those pills or he'll be dancing naked in Time Square while writing "The Man Without Fear Returns"
#39 Posted by G Bird (1278 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prodigal Son said:
"Bollocks! "
What the hell does that mean? Is that just a british person word or what?

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