Damian and Ra's

#1 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

What was the relationship between these two or their interactions?

#2 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

- Ra's is Damian's grandfather and Damian is Ra's' grandson and vessel.

#3 Edited by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

i think he was asking about their relationship as in how do they feel about each other, not about how they are related

#4 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13134 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's views Damian as a disappointment. he said so during the Red Robin series.

#5 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

i think he was asking about their relationship as in how do they feel about each other, not about how they are related

- It's not known in the New 52 continuity.

#6 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's views Damian as a disappointment. he said so during the Red Robin series.

I wonder what he thinks of the Heretic......:P

#7 Edited by TDK_1997 (14892 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's is Damian's grandfather but he thinks Damian is a disappointment.

#8 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Wll now herietic is too but I wouldn't be surprised if he hate Heretic now like Talia does too.

#11 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Ya but she feels like no affection towards him after he killed his little big brother so.....ya

Also does Bats know Heretic is his son?

#13 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: Yes,he does. And I don't think he views him as his son,but as an evil replica who shares the same DNA with Damian and him.

Anyway,Talia is kinda mad at him about that cause he disobeyed her orders.I am not sure she hates him (yet:P).

#14 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: I know that but you can kind of tell she liked Damian more than him and she's resentful towards him( when you disobey your mom she doesn't tell you to stop calling her mother :P).

Still I wish Ra's was in New 52 for more than one book. I kind of want more insight to how he and Damian were before he me his dad.

#15 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: I know that but you can kind of tell she liked Damian more than him and she's resentful towards him( when you disobey your mom she doesn't tell you to stop calling her mother :P).

Still I wish Ra's was in New 52 for more than one book. I kind of want more insight to how he and Damian were before he me his dad.

Of course she liked Damian more.She raised him since he drew his first breath.She spent years of training him to achieve perfection.She still has some affections.I mean she didn't even see the Heretic before he was like 3 meters tall.

But I still think he is all she has left.Since she hates her father etc.

It's quite surprising that there hasn't yet an issue come out that shows Damian 's relationship his grandfather(Ra's) and his great-grandfather(Sensei).

#16 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't know she hated Ra's I know she used Heretic to take over his empire or something like that in Batman Inc 2. But where did it say she hated him.

But I think that she will become good again and then she'll have Bruce again........maybe........strong maybe

But ya after they get done with these other Batman and Batfamiliy in the Batman and Robin books they should do some that go over Damians training and life with Ra's and stuff.

#17 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't know she hated Ra's I know she used Heretic to take over his empire or something like that in Batman Inc 2. But where did it say she hated him.

But I think that she will become good again and then she'll have Bruce again........maybe........strong maybe

But ya after they get done with these other Batman and Batfamiliy in the Batman and Robin books they should do some that go over Damians training and life with Ra's and stuff.

Bruce will never forgive her for what she 's done to him and their son.I know him too well.

#18 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6171 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

I didn't know she hated Ra's I know she used Heretic to take over his empire or something like that in Batman Inc 2. But where did it say she hated him.

But I think that she will become good again and then she'll have Bruce again........maybe........strong maybe

But ya after they get done with these other Batman and Batfamiliy in the Batman and Robin books they should do some that go over Damians training and life with Ra's and stuff.

Bruce will never forgive her for what she 's done to him and their son.I know him too well.

- Outside of Morrison's convoluted writing, this is completely Bruce's fault.

- Besides, Talia definitely still cared for Damian as you can see in the most recent issue. On the other hand, Heretic is a different story.

#20 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13134 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@avenging_x_bolt: @tdk_1997: Why because he sided with Batman? @stronger: me too.

I think he hates him too because he doublecrossed him with Talia.But he is the only hair to his throne.

i sure Ra's can pop out another. he tried to force Tim to become his heir but that didnt go well

#21 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: In some way,yeah I agree it's Bruce's fault.As Jason said,training teenagers to fight something that will never stop existing is pointless and stupid.

But,he couldn't do anything else.Talia slowed him down and he couldn't protect Dick and Damian in time.

Well,if Talia really cared for Damian she wouldn't unleash a monster against him.Talia became evil.

#23 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13134 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13134 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@stronger said:

@avenging_x_bolt: Do you have scans of their fight?

they never physically fought each other iirc

I thought Ras beat him once.

that was when Tim was Robin i believe. i dont think they ever fought while Tim was Red Robin. but i could be wrong.

#26 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@thejman250: In some way,yeah I agree it's Bruce's fault.As Jason said,training teenagers to fight something that will never stop existing is pointless and stupid.

But,he couldn't do anything else.Talia slowed him down and he couldn't protect Dick and Damian in time.

Well,if Talia really cared for Damian she wouldn't unleash a monster against him.Talia became evil.

- The entire situation was his fault as far as i'm concerned.

- Talia didn't "unleash" heretic against Damian at all, Damian wasn't even out in the field at first. She was clearly not happy with is actions against Damian either, so would definitely say that she cared for him. Her words to Bruce in Morrison's story were "keep the boy" or something like that. She's focused on Bruce, not Damian.

- Evil is subjective and ambiguous. Additionally, the way Morrison is writing her is not the absolute take on the character.

#27 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@thejman250: In some way,yeah I agree it's Bruce's fault.As Jason said,training teenagers to fight something that will never stop existing is pointless and stupid.

But,he couldn't do anything else.Talia slowed him down and he couldn't protect Dick and Damian in time.

Well,if Talia really cared for Damian she wouldn't unleash a monster against him.Talia became evil.

- The entire situation was his fault as far as i'm concerned.

- Talia didn't "unleash" heretic against Damian at all, Damian wasn't even out in the field at first. She was clearly not happy with is actions against Damian either, so would definitely say that she cared for him. Her words to Bruce in Morrison's story were "keep the boy" or something like that. She's focused on Bruce, not Damian.

- Evil is subjective and ambiguous. Additionally, the way Morrison is writing her is not the absolute take on the character.

-Why do you think that?

-You act like Talia didn't know the Heretic was going to attack her son.Well to be fair,she didn't command him to kill Damian.He disobeyed her orders.But then again,sending someone to attack your son is cruel.....If she cared she wouldn't go against her son at all.

-Well it seems Talia's character has changed in the reboot.Before the Flashpoint,she was what we could say neutral to both Batman and her son.She never went up against them.She was fine with Damian's choice to stay with his father.

In the new 52,Talia seems to have no bounds.

#28 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@thejman250 said:

@stronger said:

@thejman250: In some way,yeah I agree it's Bruce's fault.As Jason said,training teenagers to fight something that will never stop existing is pointless and stupid.

But,he couldn't do anything else.Talia slowed him down and he couldn't protect Dick and Damian in time.

Well,if Talia really cared for Damian she wouldn't unleash a monster against him.Talia became evil.

- The entire situation was his fault as far as i'm concerned.

- Talia didn't "unleash" heretic against Damian at all, Damian wasn't even out in the field at first. She was clearly not happy with is actions against Damian either, so would definitely say that she cared for him. Her words to Bruce in Morrison's story were "keep the boy" or something like that. She's focused on Bruce, not Damian.

- Evil is subjective and ambiguous. Additionally, the way Morrison is writing her is not the absolute take on the character.

-Why do you think that?

-You act like Talia didn't know the Heretic was going to attack her son.Well to be fair,she didn't command him to kill Damian.He disobeyed her orders.But then again,sending someone to attack your son is cruel.....If she cared she wouldn't go against her son at all.

-Well it seems Talia's character has changed in the reboot.Before the Flashpoint,she was what we could say neutral to both Batman and her son.She never went up against them.She was fine with Damian's choice to stay with his father.

In the new 52,Talia seems to have no bounds.

- Well, lets see. You completely ignore and shun a Woman who clearly loves you more than anything else on this earth, while knowing that she is the heir of an empire, and commands a league of Assassins.

- I'm pretty sure that Bruce didn't even call or visit Talia once, unless he had to or he happened to come accross her as a result of the situation at hand. Talia has been to gotham multiple times, yet Bruce cannot call or simply visit her for the sake of visiting or calling her.

- Have you ever heard the phrase "a woman scorned..." ? Well that's basically what Talia is. She wanted nothing but to be with Bruce, but Bruce being the idiot that he is let things come to this.

- As smart as Bruce is portrayed to be, i have to say that he is one of the most idiotic inconsiderate and (at times)illogical individuals i have read about in comics. When you ignore a Woman who loves you for a long period of time, while your child lives with you and not her, any idiot with sense could tell you how she'll react.

- Additionally, if had read Morrison's interview(hey maybe you already did, who knows) you would have noticed that he's writing Talia this way to simulate Parents being divorced and fighting, and their child being in the middle because he went through a similar thing when he was a child. Poor Morrison. I don't really care about his personal plight, but this is the reason he's written Talia this way.

- Oh, and for your information, when parent's fight after a divorce the child is usually caught in between (like Damian), one parent doesn't simply try to hurt the child just because.

- Talia is clearly after Bruce, and nothing more as far as i'm concerned. Damian was simply caught in the crossfire.

- Moreover, as i explained above, this is entirely Bruce's fault.

- Please tell me where Talia tells Heretic to attack her son, or where she displays knowledge that Heretic will attack her son. I have scans proving that she didn't order him to kill her son, and that she was upset because of it. Can you provide scans that back up what you're saying?

- Talia's character has changed for the convenience of Morrison's plot, nothing more.

- I could see why you think that.

#29 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: First of all,I never said Talia ordered the Heretic to kill Damian. She just knew the Heretic would have to fight him and would beat the shit out of him. What she didn't know was that the Heretic disobeyed her orders and killed him.

Second,Talia doesn't love Bruce.She is just jealous cause Bruce chose not to side with the League of Assasins,so that they could rule the world together and that he picked Selina instead of her.

Talia was always clearly insane.How she trained Damian to be a homicidal maniac,until he met his father who made him the hero he was until he was killed by Talia's organisation.

Talia should have got over Bruce a long time ago.Her actions make her responsible for Damian's life.If she hadn't ordered her organisation to attack Gotham,the Heretic would never had laid a hand on him.Moreover,Talia put a price on his head and ordered an assasin named Goat Boy to kill Damian in Batman Incorporated vol 2.

So don't come here saying to me that Talia has any love for either Bruce or Damian.....She has changed a lot since Pre-Flashpoint.If she really loved Bruce and Damian she wouldn't have gone against them.

And of course Batman wouldn't visit her.He doesn't even like her.So why should he do that?

A woman scorned means sh!t to me........If Batman did the same to her and her father,you wouldn't side with him.

#30 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@thejman250: First of all,I never said Talia ordered the Heretic to kill Damian. She just knew the Heretic would have to fight him and would beat the shit out of him. What she didn't know was that the Heretic disobeyed her orders and killed him.

Second,Talia doesn't love Bruce.She is just jealous cause Bruce chose not to side with the League of Assasins,so that they could rule the world together and that he picked Selina instead of her.

Talia was always clearly insane.How she trained Damian to be a homicidal maniac,until he met his father who made him the hero he was until he was killed by Talia's organisation.

Talia should have got over Bruce a long time ago.Her actions make her responsible for Damian's life.If she hadn't ordered her organisation to attack Gotham,the Heretic would never had laid a hand on him.Moreover,Talia put a price on his head and ordered an assasin named Goat Boy to kill Damian in Batman Incorporated vol 2.

So don't come here saying to me that Talia has any love for either Bruce or Damian.....She has changed a lot since Pre-Flashpoint.If she really loved Bruce and Damian she wouldn't have gone against them.

And of course Batman wouldn't visit her.He doesn't even like her.So why should he do that?

A woman scorned means sh!t to me........If Batman did the same to her and her father,you wouldn't side with him.

- Prove that Talia knew that was going to happen. I'm waiting. Damian was supposed to be in the cave the entire time, so i doubt that she knew he was there, or that he would leave.

- Beating the "shit" out of him and killing him are two different things regardless. As heretic stated, he acted on his own to "prove himself" to talia. Even if you happened to be correct, Talia isn't responsible for one of her men disobeying her orders as far as i'm concerned.

- Yes, talia never loved Bruce. That's why she always called him "Beloved".

- Talia being "insane" is your opinion. I think her actions were quite in character save this leviathan nonsense.

- You telling me what Talia should have gotten over, as if you control her reality, is actually just your opinion. You don't determine what she should and should not have gotten over, or what she's responsible for. If talia actually wanted Damian dead, i doubt she would have shed a tear when he died, and scolded Heretic for killing him.

- You can't prove that she doesn't have any love for them sir. People display love in different ways. You don't determine how this character must, and mustn't act sir.

- Actually, anyone here can tell you that Batman loved talia. However, you seem to be in your own little world. I don't know why you would have a child, and consider marriage with a woman that you "didn't even like". You can see that she loved Damian in B&R 0 as well as in numerous Issues before the New 52. I guess you don't read too many Batman comics.

- I don't care what means "sh!t" to you because you seem to be quite the illogical, or ignorant individual and you seem to be in your own little world only reading what you want to read.

- I seriously like the way you speak as though you determine what Talia cares about and what she does not, how she should act if she cared about something, what she loves and what she does not, and how she would act if she loved something as if you actually controlled the reality of that character. Here's a hint: you don't have any say about the character, only Batman writers do.

- Thus, you don't determine how she would act if she loved "xyz". You don't make the rules for her character sir. Your opinion only applies to yourself.

#31 Posted by consolemaster001 (5573 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

Ra's is Damian's grandfather but he thinks Damian is a disappointment.

This

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