(Court of Owls) and (R.I.P)

#1 Posted by GunSlingerHex (22 posts) - - Show Bio

So recently I reread Snyder's epic court of owls story. It's fantastically written and serves as a good story arc for character development but Re-reading it again I noticed how many similarities it has to Batman Rip.

1.(Isolation) Bruce is isolated from society for a few days and go's bat shit crazy

2. A Secret Society there since the beginning has set out to destroy Bruce Wayne and his Legacy and affects parts of Bruce's life as well.

3. Thomas Wayne(Dr Hurt) Reveal at the end(Batman and robin must die)/Thomas Wayne Jr(Court Of owls)

#2 Posted by Grandmaster_Yang (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunSlingerHex: Never noticed that before. I will say though that RIP was far more elaborate (The Black Casebook), but Court of Owls was one of my favorite arcs to date.

#3 Posted by GunSlingerHex (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@Grandmaster_Yang: Thank's. While I enjoy Snyder's Court Of Owls Story I don't consider It an entirely Original Concept as some people have claimed. Has Scott Commented on any similarities between his story and grant's?

#4 Posted by redhoodnet (153 posts) - - Show Bio

There is some for sure.... But I think that Court of Owls is a amazing piece of comic storytelling. But so is RIP for that matter.

#5 Posted by GunSlingerHex (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

#7 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

#8 Posted by Joelislegend (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

#9 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...


And this is correct.
#10 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

#11 Posted by John Valentine (16311 posts) - - Show Bio

I like both arcs.

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

I wouldn't say Snyder's stuff is made "overly simplistic". Yes, it's simpler than Morrison's run on Batman, but that's not necessarily that much of a bad thing.

#12 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

#13 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:


story was dumb.

This is dumb.....

(How lame is that?)

This is unrealistic and lame.

You know, just because you say these things doesn't actually make it true. I can do the same thing for Court of Owls, or hell, any comic ever up to freaking Watchmen. Can you tell us why you think it's dumb beyond your personal preference?

#14 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunSlingerHex: I can see the similarities for sure.

I wonder if that's a few elements of good mystery storytelling.

Isolate the protagonist from his/her support structure.

An unknown enemy.

A surprise reveal.

#15 Edited by John Valentine (16311 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

1) Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

2) Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

3) After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

4) And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

5) This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

1) Why was it dumb? This was Batman minus Bruce Wayne.

2) He clames to be Bruce's father, by doing so making Batman doubt everything he's based his crusade on. Jezebel is one of the few women he's trusted with his secret identity and she betrays him. Again making him doubt everything he's put his faith in in recent times. And, no, It's not lame, it's a humiliating fate that's worse than immediate death. Second to that, it's an accomplishment for any villain to be able to break a man such as Batman in this way.

3) No, this is not true, he becomes Darkseid's hostage later on in Final Crisis. Not immediately after the helicopter explodes in R.I.P.

4) He never actually died.

5) What's not unrealistic about a superhero comic? By saying something is "lame" doesn't mean it is.

Court of Owls is not darker than R.I.P. Sorry, but no.

Second to that, Hurt and the Black Glove, especially the demonic Hurt, comprised a threat that was way more threatening than the CoO. Morrison shook Batman to his core, Snyder just put Batman in a maze for a few days and revealed that his long-lost brother was alive and working for the CoO. The end to CoO/NoO was a lot more conclusive than in R.I.P. in the respect that Batman defeated the CoO, but he never, truly defeated Hurt in R.I.P. This undermines how threatening the CoO actually were if Batman was able to dispatch of them in such a short amount of time, having been so unprepared for them. It took Bruce travelling through time and back to the present to finally defeat Simon Hurt, having known about the Black Glove organisation for a while before his encounter with Darkseid.

R.I.P. was the culmination of Morrison's 2006-2009 Batman run. As such, seeds for this plot had been planted for years prior to it's execution. Although a great story, Snyder just dumped the CoO on us. A secret set of villains that Batman had never seen before? A group whose base of operations was in Gotham itself? That's a lot more unrealistic than anything Morrison put forth in his run.

(Just like to say that I like both stories, but feel as though I needed to defend R.I.P.).

#16 Posted by Joelislegend (215 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's just say that both were good.

Grant Morrison spun a Morrison style tale of a long elaborated work that all comes together.

Snyder is telling shorter stories that resemble more some classic BTAS stuff.

Synder also has Capullo's art which helps a whole lot. Just look at that god awful harper row issue done by Becky Cloonan. YUCK!

#17 Posted by John Valentine (16311 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend said:

Just look at that god awful harper row issue done by Becky Cloonan. YUCK!

I think the problem is Harper Row. Not yet sold on her. Weakest issue of the run by far.

#18 Posted by Billy Batson (58152 posts) - - Show Bio

Cloonan > your favorite artist
BB

#19 Posted by ragdollpurps (15572 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend said:

Synder also has Capullo's art which helps a whole lot. Just look at that god awful harper row issue done by Becky Cloonan. YUCK!

Becky Cloonan was the first female to provide art for Batman's flagship title, how dare you call her yuck!

#20 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan of Capullo's art. I mean he isn't really bad, but he has a bit of a problem with faces and the way he draws Bruce Wayne specifically makes me want to stab him with a fork.

#21 Edited by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

I still need to read RIP.

And Court of Owls I guess.

#22 Posted by Joelislegend (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Cloonan > your favorite artist
BB

Frank Quitely and Andy Kubert > Becky Cloonan

@ragdollpurps said:

@Joelislegend said:

Synder also has Capullo's art which helps a whole lot. Just look at that god awful harper row issue done by Becky Cloonan. YUCK!

Becky Cloonan was the first female to provide art for Batman's flagship title, how dare you call her yuck!

Her art was horrible for Batman.

Batman shows up for 2 pages and this is how she draws him? WTF are wrong with his ears??

Seriously the artwork is horrible it felt like I was reading Scott Pilgrim.

#23 Posted by Billy Batson (58152 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend:

Really? Quitely is your favorite artist? The guy who draws vegetable people?
BB

#24 Posted by ragdollpurps (15572 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend: It's a better depiction of Batman than the one in your av.... >.>

#25 Edited by Joelislegend (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@Joelislegend:

Really? Quitely is your favorite artist? The guy who draws vegetable people?
BB

#26 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33907 posts) - - Show Bio
@Billy Batson said:

Cloonan > your favorite artist
BB

also all this thread has succeeded in is making me want to reread R.I.P
#27 Posted by TheJSquad34 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend: I love Quitely as well. I don't know how you can't. His artwork from Batman and Robin was some of my favorite ever

#28 Edited by John Valentine (16311 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheJSquad34 said:

@Joelislegend: I love Quitely as well. I don't know how you can't. His artwork from Batman and Robin was some of my favorite ever

It's a shame Burnham took over on Morrison's Bat-stuff. I suppose his style is similar, but Quitely's is just so much better.

#29 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

Since John Valentine has addressed most of these I'll skip to the bolded part.

First of all darker and more realistic does not equal better.Secondly RIP was by far more darker,it's like comparing a gritty crime thriller to a zombie cartoon.

The Black Glove was more realistic,that's how an actual secret crime cabal with rich guys gets around,they actually did stuff that could plausibly happen,heck IT DOES happen.

I was about to concede on the art(I also prefer Capullo to Daniel) but objectively looking now Daniel put more effort.He drew a ridiculously large cast of characters and made them all unique and distinguishable from each other.Capullo was drawing the same damn thing over and over again,what distinguishing features did the Court and Talons have? they were all the same face characters.

#30 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Court of Owls and DOTF look good while you are reading them but if you start looking at every panel for more than a minute or re-read the story it looks like it's a stolen idea and isn't that good anymore.

#31 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Stronger said:


story was dumb.

This is dumb.....

(How lame is that?)

This is unrealistic and lame.

You know, just because you say these things doesn't actually make it true. I can do the same thing for Court of Owls, or hell, any comic ever up to freaking Watchmen. Can you tell us why you think it's dumb beyond your personal preference?

You know something friend????Because I didn't like it,it doesn't mean you don't have to like it too.....It is my opinion,and only mine!

I think this whole story was dumb and a trick to attract more buyers.I mean why would they suddenly kill Batman in such an unrealistic and unreasonable way???

@John Valentine said:

@Stronger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

1) Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

2) Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

3) After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

4) And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

5) This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

1) Why was it dumb? This was Batman minus Bruce Wayne.

2) He clames to be Bruce's father, by doing so making Batman doubt everything he's based his crusade on. Jezebel is one of the few women he's trusted with his secret identity and she betrays him. Again making him doubt everything he's put his faith in in recent times. And, no, It's not lame, it's a humiliating fate that's worse than immediate death. Second to that, it's an accomplishment for any villain to be able to break a man such as Batman in this way.

3) No, this is not true, he becomes Darkseid's hostage later on in Final Crisis. Not immediately after the helicopter explodes in R.I.P.

4) He never actually died.

5) What's not unrealistic about a superhero comic? By saying something is "lame" doesn't mean it is.

Court of Owls is not darker than R.I.P. Sorry, but no.

Second to that, Hurt and the Black Glove, especially the demonic Hurt, comprised a threat that was way more threatening than the CoO. Morrison shook Batman to his core, Snyder just put Batman in a maze for a few days and revealed that his long-lost brother was alive and working for the CoO. The end to CoO/NoO was a lot more conclusive than in R.I.P. in the respect that Batman defeated the CoO, but he never, truly defeated Hurt in R.I.P. This undermines how threatening the CoO actually were if Batman was able to dispatch of them in such a short amount of time, having been so unprepared for them. It took Bruce travelling through time and back to the present to finally defeat Simon Hurt, having known about the Black Glove organisation for a while before his encounter with Darkseid.

R.I.P. was the culmination of Morrison's 2006-2009 Batman run. As such, seeds for this plot had been planted for years prior to it's execution. Although a great story, Snyder just dumped the CoO on us. A secret set of villains that Batman had never seen before? A group whose base of operations was in Gotham itself? That's a lot more unrealistic than anything Morrison put forth in his run.

(Just like to say that I like both stories, but feel as though I needed to defend R.I.P.).

1) First of all,his costume was like a gypsy outfit.End of story...

2)Batman was not broken at all.In fact he knew it from the begining.Well,not the begining but you know what I mean....

3)I didn't mean he was immiadiatelly caught by Darkseid...I jumped a few scenes(such as Orion's death investigation etc).

4)Well that was later revealed,after DC's selling begun to fall.

5)Court Of Owls is way darker my friend....

The CoO had been torturing the bat-family and nearly drove the Dark Knight himself crazy.They tested his willpower and determination and where actually really close in killing him.

IMO Batman R.I.P was a marketing trick to attract fans and I did'nt like it at all.Also I believe that all the new 52 stories are better than the pre new 52 ones.

But that's just my opinion.You are free to believe otherwise.....

#32 Posted by WonderHunter (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

I know, totally out of place, but :/ ....I'm gonna say just one thing... NEVER!

#33 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@GunSlingerHex said:

@redhoodnet: Holy Crap I just noticed this but Snyder Took another Cue From Morrison Run. (Batman And Son to Batman And Robin Must Die) Joker Gets Part of his face mangled ie(Shot In the forehead) and undergoes a new transformation and then disapears for an extended period of time. He Final Resurfaces later with a dark new Persona.

Yup Court of Owls and DOTF are like RIP split apart,made overly simplistic and re written with more issues.

This is correct. The bold in particular.
@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

And this is correct.

@Joelislegend said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

WHAT WHAT???

Batman RIP was an amazing culmination of 2+ years of Batman all coming together and revealing one big master plan that had been hidden below the surface.

Court of Owls was the culmination of Scott Snyder trying to convince us that owls had been running Gotham for years but had never once been seen before because they were so badass but they were all poisoned within 10 minutes and died because they weren't really that bad ass...

@entropy_aegis said:

@Stronger said:

The main difference of Batman R.I.P. and The Court of Owls is that Batman rip is a complete SH!T.

The Court of Owls was epic.

Elaborate on this.

Batman R.I.P whole story was dumb.

Batman becomes the Batman of Zur En Arch,to save Jezebel..........This is dumb.....

Doctor Hurt who claims to be Thomas Wayne,together with Bruce's girlfriend etc. tried to bury Bruce alive,not to kill him,but make him their mindless slave.(How lame is that?)

After a big explosion,Batman ends up as a hostage of Daskeid,whom shoots with a radion bullet before he died by his Omega Beams.....

And after all this Bruce Wayne was brought back from the dead.....(IMO since they killed Bruce,they should have kept him dead until the New 52 reboot,and Dick Grayson should be the next Batman).

This is unrealistic and lame.

The Court of Owls was way better.Darker and more realistic story, and plus the art was fantastic.

Since John Valentine has addressed most of these I'll skip to the bolded part.

First of all darker and more realistic does not equal better.Secondly RIP was by far more darker,it's like comparing a gritty crime thriller to a zombie cartoon.

The Black Glove was more realistic,that's how an actual secret crime cabal with rich guys gets around,they actually did stuff that could plausibly happen,heck IT DOES happen.

I was about to concede on the art(I also prefer Capullo to Daniel) but objectively looking now Daniel put more effort.He drew a ridiculously large cast of characters and made them all unique and distinguishable from each other.Capullo was drawing the same damn thing over and over again,what distinguishing features did the Court and Talons have? they were all the same face characters.

I like dark stories so I think it was better.And RIP wasn't as dark as CoO.

First of all,the Court wasn't just a crime cabal....It was a secret society,just like the Order Of Saint Dumas and Azrael(only more evil).And,second,where the hell do you know how crime cabals of rich guys get around?

Well about the art ,I prefer Capullo's work.He is clearly very talented and I like the details he is adding in his pictures(like flies on Joker's ear etc.)

#34 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@WonderHunter: Why????

I kinda like the idea of Grayson successing Batman.

#35 Edited by WonderHunter (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger: I believe Dick doesn't fit. He's different, he's his own persona, his own hero...He works as a replacement perhaps, but only temporary. And honestly? i can't see somebody else in Batman shoes. Perhaps because i'm fan of Batman, but it's not just the hero... it's the person behind the mask too. I know he can't live forever, but... just can't see someone else :/ Just my opinion

#36 Posted by havoc1201 (518 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman does not go crazy from isolation in COO he drinks the water that is drugged, also Thomas Wayne Jr isnt really Thomas Wayne jr he was tricked by the court to believe he was JR.

#37 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

You know something friend????Because I didn't like it,it doesn't mean you don't have to like it too.....It is my opinion,and only mine!

I think this whole story was dumb and a trick to attract more buyers.I mean why would they suddenly kill Batman in such an unrealistic and unreasonable way???

Dude, you didn't say you didn't like it, you said it was dumb. That implies quite a bit more opinion in it beyond "it's just not my cup of tea" so I asked you to elaborate why you thought it was dumb. No need to get your panties in a bunch, especially since you seem perfectly willing to give Entropy the exact thing I asked in the very same post...

#38 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@WonderHunter said:

@Stronger: I believe Dick doesn't fit. He's different, he's his own persona, his own hero...He works as a replacement perhaps, but only temporary. And honestly? i can't see somebody else in Batman shoes. Perhaps because i'm fan of Batman, but it's not just the hero... it's the person behind the mask too. I know he can't live forever, but... just can't see someone else :/ Just my opinion

I wrote a whole blog,explaining the difference between Batman and Bruce Wayne.

What Bruce Wayne envivioned was to be a symbol.To inspire people.

The Batman is not Bruce Wayne.Bruce Wayne is the Batman....

The Batman isn't anyone,but he can be anybody.Anybody dedicated,strongwilled and skilled enough.

I can be Batman,you can be Batman,everyone can be Batman.

You got it??? ;)

@AtPhantom said:

@Stronger said:

You know something friend????Because I didn't like it,it doesn't mean you don't have to like it too.....It is my opinion,and only mine!

I think this whole story was dumb and a trick to attract more buyers.I mean why would they suddenly kill Batman in such an unrealistic and unreasonable way???

Dude, you didn't say you didn't like it, you said it was dumb. That implies quite a bit more opinion in it beyond "it's just not my cup of tea" so I asked you to elaborate why you thought it was dumb. No need to get your panties in a bunch, especially since you seem perfectly willing to give Entropy the exact thing I asked in the very same post...

I apologize if you were offended in any way...

This is only my opinion and mine only.I gave some reasons about it.

You are free to believe whatever you like my friend.;)

#39 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joelislegend: that art is amazing, and I like Morrison's stuff more than Snyder, Snyder lost me with the whole Thomas Wayne Jr stuff

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