So now, with the annoucement of Batman vs Robin, the movie, i was wondering, if its time to see some more characters appearing in the big screen.

What do you think about a Batman vs Batgirl, the movie? it has alot of potencial, it could be (a drugged Babs) acting as a evil genius, with a evil master-plan, (kinda like, a lex luthor-girl) threatning Gotham City, and then Batman has to stop her.

What do you guys think?

Batman would eventually save the day, obviously, and that could set things up for a Batman vs Batgirl 2 where Batman and Batgirl work out their diferences, and join forces, to take on, whoever drugged Babs in the first place.

I would rather see Batwoman vs Batman. It would be hilarious.

Could be, it kinda of happened already in the comics...but the thing is, when it comes to Batman vs Batwoman, what does Batwoman bring to the table, really?...Batman is way better than her, in every way...at least, Barbara Gordon's intelect, matches Bruce's, so it would be like, Batman against a serious Joker, who isn't palying around.

Personally, i think that it would be very interesting to see.

Babs would stand no chance.

@redwingx:

Isn't it already done ?

In Robin (The Son Of Batman), DC had Damian looking better than Bronze Tiger, and stallemating Deathstroke, LOL...i mean, when it comes down to animated movies, do you think that DC really cares about powerlevels?...the only thing that they really seem to care about, is making the heros look as cool and as impressive, as possible.

@valdemocnij said:

@redwingx:

Isn't it already done ?

Nope, that was about Batman finding out who those girls were, and then, everybody fought Bane...my idea, is about 2 heros facing each other.

@bat_girl_cc: It was "only" Ubu not Bronze Tiger, but that doesn't make it much better.

But but after Batman vs. Red Hood and Batman vs. Robin, I don't think we need another Batman vs. Sidekick Movie.

yeah, but if DC is giving a chance for Robin to shine, why not Batgirl as well?

There is nothing wrong with a Batgirl movie, I just don't like the idea of a "Batgirl vs Batman"-movie, and I just can't imagine that there could be a really cool showdown between Batman and Batgirl (and i also think a Bruce vs Damian movie is a bad idea, if this is really what will happen in this movie).

And in the comics the Batgirls are usually (unlike the Robins) not sidekicks and adopted childs of Batman but independent heroes, so the whole confrontation just wouldn't as personal as the confrontation with Jason.

@aahz:

Anyway, i get your point, and i agree.

Cass has in my Opinion several problems, which make her problematic for a Film

- she doesn't have an really good story how she became Batgirl (she just appeared out of nowhere during Nomansland).

- the only real recurring villians in her solo stories are her own parents

- to really show that she is the best fighter, other characters must look bad in comparison

- well made fighting scene look always cool, and they will not look cooler when you use Cass instead of an other Character

And Steph has the problems, that to much happend before she became Batgirl and that her Character is to similar to the young Barbara Gordon from the DCAU, so Barbara will probably be the Batgirl with the bes chance to appear in movies.

@bat_girl_cc: I think you're overestimating Babs a teeny bit. You just compared her to Lex and Joker..c'mon. She's smart...really really smart, but not that smart. I don't mind the premise of Batman vs Batgirl, but not the way you described it. I'd figure it'll be more about Babs basically hijacking the Bat-Mantle and attempting to fight crime on her own but due to her lack of experience ends up causing more trouble, and it's up to Batman to stop her for her own good, but she refuses to be treated as some sort of sidekick and so uses her intellect to give Bats trouble. But in the end he catches up to her, and convinces her that she needs training and in the end, she becomes her own hero.

" - she doesn't have an really good story how she became Batgirl (she just appeared out of nowhere during Nomansland). "

?...her back story its one of the reasons that got me to like her character so much in the first place...its hands down, the most impressive, interesting and unique back-story that i've ever read or known about, not just how/why she was raised, but the whole process.

The mistery behind her character in the begining, was also very cool, depending on your preferences, plus, i don't see that as a real problem...they would make a short introduction of her, and then focus on her vs Batman, which would be the point of the movie!

" - the only real recurring villians in her solo stories are her own parents. "

Not really, there was Black Wind; Mad Dog; Marquese; Deathstroke; etc. how many times does a character have to appear in a book, to be considered recurring?

Also, Lady Shiva and David Cain are 2 of the best and most dangerous assassins and fighters, in the world...Babs its only now getting a real solo series, and from her all time rogues, both from comics and cartoons, the only recurring villain that i can thing of, which is a real threat, its Poison Ivy, which honestly, she is above street-level, and it requires some lame plot device to take down...at least, Cass beats her rougues due to her own skills, and not due to the "writters magic".

" - to really show that she is the best fighter, other characters must look bad in comparison. "

Nope, Cassandra was born and raised to the best...Ra's all Ghul perfect body-guard...she has the genes, she has the training, she has the skills, she has the feats, etc...just her speed alone (rated as being meta-human on panel, which its supported by Cass consistently performing meta-human speed feats) coupled with her Body-Reading, should Grant her the win agaisnt anyone who's overall stats are below meta-human level.

What you're saying, its like me saying that the Joker losing a fist-fight to Batman, makes the Joker look bad...it doesn't make the Joker look bad, because Batman has the means to do it, because he's one of the best fighters in the world.

But for instances, when Damian stallemated Deathstroke in Robin: the son of Batman, that made Slade look bad, because there's nothing that justifies Damian lasting even 30 seconds in a fight against Slade. much less keep up with him.

" - well made fighting scene look always cool, and they will not look cooler when you use Cass instead of an other Character. "

You didn't got my point...there's no way that you can have a cool fight between Batman and Babs, without PIS/WIS involved...though, after what i've seen lately, i'm starting to doubt if DC even cares about powerlevels, when it comes to animated-movies.

" And Steph has the problems, that to much happend before she became Batgirl and that her Character is to similar to the young Barbara Gordon from the DCAU, so Barbara will probably be the Batgirl with the bes chance to appear in movies. "

Lol, so Cass has a problem, because she became Batgirl right way...and Steph has a problem because she was Spoiler and Robin first? what sense does that make?

I can see that you like Babs more than the others, and that's fine...but lets face it, Babs would be the Batgirl, due to the iconic cliche.

Could be, but my idea its cooler xD though, it would require some PIS/WIS.

?...her back story its one of the reasons that got me to like her character so much in the first place...its hands down, the most impressive, interesting and unique back-story that i've ever read or known about, not just how/why she was raised, but the whole process.

It is not about the origin story it is about how she became Batgirl. She was just suddenly there as Barbaras "errand girl" in Nomansland (it was iirc never explained how they met) and than Batman gave her the costume after kicking Huntress out. In comparison to for example "Batgirl: Year One" it wasn't such great story. (And at least in my opinion some of the flashbacks in Cass childhood were on a similar level as the Damians fights with Ubu and Deathstroke in "Batman and Son")

Black Wind; Mad Dog; Marquese; Deathstroke

With exception of Deathstroke (who seems to be everywhere) non of this guys where really memorable villains. I have to admit that Babs isn't really much better in this regard (especially since she wasn't Batgirl since the 80s, and I haven't read her new series), but it is still a disadvantage in comparison to many other DC heroes who could also be chosen as protagonist of this movie. And you have always the option to set Babs against one of the popular female batman Rogues (Catwoman, Ivy, Talia or Harley Quinn) with Cass and her strong focus at martial arts this will not work that easy.

Lady Shiva and David Cain are 2 of the best and most dangerous assassins and fighters, in the world

But besides framing Bruce Wayne for murder, Cain never did something big in the Comics. And at least I liked the stories about Shiva and Tim Drake or Shiva and Black Canary more than the with Cass.

" It is not about the origin story it is about how she became Batgirl. She was just suddenly there as Barbaras "errand girl" in Nomansland (it was iirc never explained how they met) and than Batman gave her the costume after kicking Huntress out. In comparison to for example "Batgirl: Year One" it wasn't such great story. (And at least in my opinion some of the flashbacks in Cass childhood were on a similar level as the Damians fights with Ubu and Deathstroke in "Batman and Son") "

If you mean that Babs had a better introduction to the Batgirl mantle, then i agree, but Cass had a cooler origin.

The difference between Cass and Damian its consistency though...Cass has many speed feats, stricking-power feats, durabillity feats, etc on meta-human level, while Damian not so much, the most impressive thing that he ever did, was giving a fight to the Heretic, which is no doubt impressive, but its kinda of short...plus, Cass has Lady Shiva's genes, she born and raised to learn how to read Body-Language as her first language, allowing her to effortlessy know her opponents next moves with a mere glance at them...etc. she doing well against Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, etc, its justified. Damian isn't, even Batman himself in the comics, never gave Slade a fight as even, as Damian gave him in his movie, they had one fight that was kinda of even, with them both fighting blow-for-blow, but Damian was more impressive on his movie, imo, he was portrayed as being close form Nightwing's level, which its B.S...in the comics he got beaten by Tim Drake fair and square, twice, and even Stephanie was able to keep up with him once.

" With exception of Deathstroke (who seems to be everywhere) non of this guys where really memorable villains. I have to admit that Babs isn't really much better in this regard (especially since she wasn't Batgirl since the 80s, and I haven't read her new series), but it is still a disadvantage in comparison to many other DC heroes who could also be chosen as protagonist of this movie. And you have always the option to set Babs against one of the popular female batman Rogues (Catwoman, Ivy, Talia or Harley Quinn) with Cass and her strong focus at martial arts this will not work that easy. "

I mostly agree with everything that you said here, and yeah, Babs vs Catwoman, Talia or Harley Quinn, would be all even fights, which would work in a movie, while Cass would just walk over them...as for Poison Ivy, Babs can always pull out some prep-plot-device (Batman style) while Cass, without previous knowledge, would most likely went Hand-to-Hand against Poison Ivy, and she would get beaten fairly-easly.

" But besides framing Bruce Wayne for murder, Cain never did something big in the Comics. And at least I liked the stories about Shiva and Tim Drake or Shiva and Black Canary more than the with Cass. "

I agree, sometimes i think that David Cain was more like a plot-device to introduce Cass, than anything else...though he had alot of potencial, DC just didn't wantted to push him.

Lady Shiva vs Tim Drake was mostly Shiva jobbing hard, and looking very dumb in the process...like when Tim poisoned her before the fight...Shiva pick up and eated some random chocolates, that were there lolol, someone like her, with such experience, and with so many people wantting to kill her, should be more carefull, don't you think?

Black Canary's stories with Shiva were mostly cool, but Cassandra's stories with Shiva, had more context, and overall made more sense to me.

@bat_girl_cc: You misunderstood me, what I wanted to say, that many things you see Cass do as a child in the flash backs are in my opinion as ridiculous as the Damians fights against Ubu and Deathstroke in the movie. For example even with her training and this body language stuff there is no way that Cass can beat Bronze Tiger as at an age of 8 (or younger), this guy is to my knowledge one of the few martial artists that are (like Lady Shiva) better than Batman, a fight against him should be tough even for the adult Cass.

And when I'm talking about stories with Shiva an Tim, I actually was more thinking about their team up to fight King Snake (back in the 90s) and not this "fight" where he poisoned her.

I don't mind PIS/WIS as long as it's entertaining.

It's just that..well the way you described it...it's soo unlike Babs, I just can't see her as a criminal mastermind..she's just too darn likable. And the only way this might if she snapped, in a similar way to Hal Jordan in Emerald Twilight (I don't care what anyone says, it was quite the intense story). I am actually interested in seeing the hero snap, but something big needs to happen to cause Babs to go over the edge.

Agreed, i just gave the idea, the plot for the movie its the writters job xD

Meh, I don't find it to be a very strong concept for a movie. Would I go see it? Yeah, when it comes out in DVD.

Babs is a strong enough character for her own movie, but in that concept? Nah. If she was to have her own solo movie it would be more origin story oriented, so from her becoming Batgirl to becoming Oracle.

Btw. his introduction was also kind of a retcon. He was never mentioned before as one of Bruces trainers and Lady Shivas sister was afaik killed by an other guy in the original story. He was really just created for Cassandra.

Some one should make a Batman vs Batman movie and Batman vs BatGod and Batman vs The Chew Church.

In terms of storyline, IMO Barbara Gordon would make a better lead character, Cassandra Cain would be better as a partner or supporting character to someone in this type of movie. Also, I haven't seen all of the DC animated movies, but I'm guessing that whichever character that is in this she needs backstory. I propose at the very least one movie in advance where dc goes into depth with the characters, like for Barbara Gordon, it would be her first forays into crimefighting, for Cassandra Cain, it would be her birth, assassin training, first kill, etc. to give background that way they're not just dumping them into the plot and the movie is squashed by having to fit in an origin story and a manageable plot in one.