Bruce Wayne, who witnessed the murder of his billionaire parents as a child, swore to avenge their deaths. He trained extensively to achieve mental and physical perfection, mastering martial arts, detective skills, and criminal psychology. Costumed as a bat to prey on the fears of criminals, and utilizing a high-tech arsenal, he became the legendary Batman.
Mr terrific stated that batman was the second smartest on the planet, Do you guys think he is I mean didn't he design the watch tower. People say that tim drake is smarter than batman i just don't buy it he's a genius but i don't think he's smarter than the Bat what do you guys think. And can deathstroke out think batman( not saying he's smarter).
Batman is the master tactician. Nobody beats him there. Even Deathstroke. I think Mr Teriffic would place Luthor at #1 in terms of overall genius but Batman is skilled where it counts.
I think that conventional DC wisdom holds that Luthor and Batman are the top two most intelligent. I'd go so far as to say that Deathstroke can think faster than Batman, but possibly more narrow minded. Batman tends to get the better of him and Batman is just straight up more intelligent.
Batman is the master tactician. Nobody beats him there. Even Deathstroke. I think Mr Teriffic would place Luthor at #1 in terms of overall genius but Batman is skilled where it counts.
@Nightwing4 said:
Batman is the master tactician. Nobody beats him there. Even Deathstroke. I think Mr Teriffic would place Luthor at #1 in terms of overall genius but Batman is skilled where it counts.
Kind of odd is it not, Superman's best hero friend and worst enemy are the 2 smartest on the planet, both being one of the few humans smarter than him.
@serpent222 said:
I think that conventional DC wisdom holds that Luthor and Batman are the top two most intelligent. I'd go so far as to say that Deathstroke can think faster than Batman, but possibly more narrow minded. Batman tends to get the better of him and Batman is just straight up more intelligent.
Maybe, but can't Superman and Flash think even faster? I once though thinking faster could make you smarter till a friend pointed out that a dumb person who thinks of dumb thinks faster is not any less dumb. I guess the point was you still have an intelligence/knowledge cap, you'll still come to the conclusion faster though.
Guys like Superman and Flash can learn faster, but I think their ability to apply and extrapolate into the unknown is not as high. Without Daddy's library, it would be interesting to see how much science Clark really knows
@drgnx: I don't think that Deathstroke is the fastest thinker, just faster than Batman. Both Flash and Superman can definitely learn faster than Deathstroke, but I think to rank them in terms of just who thinks faster, it would be Superman third, then Deathstroke, and Flash is definitely the fastest thinker. Maybe I'm wrong about Superman, but I don't think his actual thinking speed is faster than Deathstroke's.
Batman's not one of the smartest people on the planet, that's a silly idea.
Batman's one of the most driven people on the planet. He pushes his mind and body to the limit, but that doesn't mean he was naturally gifted with a superior intelligence.
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
I'm not sure how fast Deathstroke thinks, but Superman been shown to be able to speed up his thoughts to high levels. From what I can tell he needs to force this, there is another scan where he is chasing Wally and Wally notes Superman's sense/perception is catching up or something, meaning it is not a natural state to be in heightened speed. Flash/speedsters seem similar (can't imagine them having a conversation with humans if they could not slow down their perception), but can do it much faster than Superman.
Gallery
Most of these are DCnU but the first pick is pe-flashpoint. I don't know the full context of the first scan though, seems straight forward.
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
So very true. It's one thing to make him more human and less "Bat-god". But it's going too far to make him incompetant and Snyder has done on multiple occassions.
Batman's not one of the smartest people on the planet, that's a silly idea.
Batman's one of the most driven people on the planet. He pushes his mind and body to the limit, but that doesn't mean he was naturally gifted with a superior intelligence.
This.
@Joelislegend said:
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
Not really he got fooled in The Hush storyline for instance.
Batman's not one of the smartest people on the planet, that's a silly idea.
Batman's one of the most driven people on the planet. He pushes his mind and body to the limit, but that doesn't mean he was naturally gifted with a superior intelligence.
A silly idea? How? You're making it seem like he's Killer Croc or something. I can understand not thinking he's the smartest person on Earth but thinking him being one of the smartest as silly is ridiculous. And him being intelligent has always been apart of the character, yeah he's driven and pushes himself but it's clear he's also naturally very intelligent.
I'm not sure how you would measure who's the overall smartest person. Comics are very fond of these precise top 5 lists, but that tends not to be the way it works. There's all different kinds of intelligence and having one does not give you the others. If it were that way all of our astro physicists, chemists, philosophers, generals, and diplomats would be the same people.
Batman's not one of the smartest people on the planet, that's a silly idea.
Batman's one of the most driven people on the planet. He pushes his mind and body to the limit, but that doesn't mean he was naturally gifted with a superior intelligence.
This.
@Joelislegend said:
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
Not really he got fooled in The Hush storyline for instance.
I would disagree. He didn't know the identity of a man who did everything to hide his identity. I wouldn't say he was fooled and in the end he even knew it was the Riddler that had orchestrated the entire thing and tricked the Riddler into not revealing himself.
@Crash_Recovery: But Batman is incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable. He spent many years in study to become so. No, he's probably not the most intelligent character in the entire DCU, but he's definitely up there. You don't get to be "the world's greatest detective" by being a half-wit.
I would consider him the best detective,strategist and maybe tactician.
but if you're talking science,tech,inventions,weapons etc then is a whole list of people well above him few examples being Luthor,Sivanna,Morrow,Ivo,Libra,Prometheus,Ultra Humanite,and more.
@Joelislegend said:
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
I dont think Snyder intentionally writes Batman as an unprepared idiot,more like he tries to make his villains look incredibly smart at Batman's expense(it's a common enough trope in Batman stories) the problem starts when the villains aren't impressive(the Court) or are flat out asinine(DOTF Joker).It's just so hard to swallow all that Joker's been doing in DOTF,like the writers are incessant in their need to prove how he's so smart but at the expense of story telling and character,the Court was just lackluster and over hyped.
@End_Boss: I never accused Batman of being half witted.
I'm simply saying that he wasn't born with a massive intellect, he crafted one. Someone can study very hard in various areas and reach the peak of their own intellectual potential, but we're not all born with the same potential.
I would consider him the best detective,strategist and maybe tactician.
but if you're talking science,tech,inventions,weapons etc then is a whole list of people well above him few examples being Luthor,Sivanna,Morrow,Ivo,Libra,Prometheus,Ultra Humanite,and more.
Agree 100%. I'd consider Batman to be entirely proficient at most academic/technological/scientific disciplines, but to really come into his own as a detective, strategist and tactician. And his mind, coupled with his determination and physical skill is what makes him so damn unbeatable.
IMO, in terms of other characters who are masters in "science,tech,inventions,weapons etc" there's also Ted Kord (if we're counting deceased), Michael Holt (as others have mentioned), Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Niles Caulder.
How would people rate Oracle and Drake? In a similar sort of field as Bruce?
I think the problem with the court was the ending fell so horribly flat.
Batman "outsmarts" the court only to find them poisoned by his apparant brother. Fights some strange battle over the skies of Gotham and then says it's over as if nothing ever happened?? It just felt unfinished and so horribly un-Batman.
Can't wait to see if Snyder makes Batman outsmart the Joker or if he gets royally f***** over again next week.
I would consider him the best detective,strategist and maybe tactician.
but if you're talking science,tech,inventions,weapons etc then is a whole list of people well above him few examples being Luthor,Sivanna,Morrow,Ivo,Libra,Prometheus,Ultra Humanite,and more.
Agree 100%. I'd consider Batman to be entirely proficient at most academic/technological/scientific disciplines, but to really come into his own as a detective, strategist and tactician. And his mind, coupled with his determination and physical skill is what makes him so damn unbeatable.
IMO, in terms of other characters who are masters in "science,tech,inventions,weapons etc" there's also Ted Kord (if we're counting deceased), Michael Holt (as others have mentioned), Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Niles Caulder.
How would people rate Oracle and Drake? In a similar sort of field as Bruce?
Drake(Pre-Flashpoint) was mostly hype,he was smart but nowhere near the level most fans thought him to be.
Oracle is up there,computers,hacking,information technology is her gimmick and I'd say she's the best at it.
I'm not sure how you would measure who's the overall smartest person. Comics are very fond of these precise top 5 lists, but that tends not to be the way it works. There's all different kinds of intelligence and having one does not give you the others. If it were that way all of our astro physicists, chemists, philosophers, generals, and diplomats would be the same people.
I would consider him the best detective,strategist and maybe tactician.
but if you're talking science,tech,inventions,weapons etc then is a whole list of people well above him few examples being Luthor,Sivanna,Morrow,Ivo,Libra,Prometheus,Ultra Humanite,and more.
Agree 100%. I'd consider Batman to be entirely proficient at most academic/technological/scientific disciplines, but to really come into his own as a detective, strategist and tactician. And his mind, coupled with his determination and physical skill is what makes him so damn unbeatable.
IMO, in terms of other characters who are masters in "science,tech,inventions,weapons etc" there's also Ted Kord (if we're counting deceased), Michael Holt (as others have mentioned), Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Niles Caulder.
How would people rate Oracle and Drake? In a similar sort of field as Bruce?
Drake(Pre-Flashpoint) was mostly hype,he was smart but nowhere near the level most fans thought him to be.
Oracle is up there,computers,hacking,information technology is her gimmick and I'd say she's the best at it.
There were multiple points where Batman straight up said that Drake may be smarter than he is. So if we accept that Batman is up there, Drake has to be in the discussion.
But, of course, the closest to an objective answer we'd get is that who is smartest depends on the writer. At the very least in the sort of running joke of Mr. Terrific list, Batman may be considered number 2. But when you get down to it, it's much more complicated. I would generally agree on the point of Batman's intelligence in the realm of investigation, strategy, and tactics, with being very versed in other disciplines. But if we rank him up against guys like Ivo, Luthor, and Morrow on sciences and technology, he is pushed out of the discussion pretty fast.
As an aside, and I could be 100% wrong here, but I always kind of felt that with Superman and Batman, each one of them considers the other one to be the more intelligent one.
I would consider him the best detective,strategist and maybe tactician.
but if you're talking science,tech,inventions,weapons etc then is a whole list of people well above him few examples being Luthor,Sivanna,Morrow,Ivo,Libra,Prometheus,Ultra Humanite,and more.
Agree 100%. I'd consider Batman to be entirely proficient at most academic/technological/scientific disciplines, but to really come into his own as a detective, strategist and tactician. And his mind, coupled with his determination and physical skill is what makes him so damn unbeatable.
IMO, in terms of other characters who are masters in "science,tech,inventions,weapons etc" there's also Ted Kord (if we're counting deceased), Michael Holt (as others have mentioned), Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Niles Caulder.
How would people rate Oracle and Drake? In a similar sort of field as Bruce?
Drake(Pre-Flashpoint) was mostly hype,he was smart but nowhere near the level most fans thought him to be.
Oracle is up there,computers,hacking,information technology is her gimmick and I'd say she's the best at it.
There were multiple points where Batman straight up said that Drake may be smarter than he is. So if we accept that Batman is up there, Drake has to be in the discussion.
But, of course, the closest to an objective answer we'd get is that who is smartest depends on the writer. At the very least in the sort of running joke of Mr. Terrific list, Batman may be considered number 2. But when you get down to it, it's much more complicated. I would generally agree on the point of Batman's intelligence in the realm of investigation, strategy, and tactics, with being very versed in other disciplines. But if we rank him up against guys like Ivo, Luthor, and Morrow on sciences and technology, he is pushed out of the discussion pretty fast.
As an aside, and I could be 100% wrong here, but I always kind of felt that with Superman and Batman, each one of them considers the other one to be the more intelligent one.
@entropy_aegis: I suppose so. At least he basically took out the League of Assassins by himself.
The most over exaggerated Tim feat,but it's not really as impressive when you take in to account the following factors:
The League in question was comprised of jobbers(random ninja and the worthless Seven men of death,the best one was Merlyn and he was not even part of that particular line up).
The League allowed Tim access to their computer systems/information because they were fighting a common enemy(Council of Spiders),this allowed Tim access to important stuff that he would normally not have.
He got his ass kicked by Ra's in combat.
It was all a ruse on Ra's part,he was testing Drake it was made clear.
The supposed victory that Tim did salvage never made any sense to me.
Batman may be considered number 2. But when you get down to it, it's much more complicated. I would generally agree on the point of Batman's intelligence in the realm of investigation, strategy, and tactics, with being very versed in other disciplines. But if we rank him up against guys like Ivo, Luthor, and Morrow on sciences and technology, he is pushed out of the discussion pretty fast.
Agreed. Same goes to anyone who tries to compare Tony Stark and Batman in Intelligence. No matter how many time I mention in those threads, there are still some Hardcore Batman fans who says otherwise.
That may be how it is in the New 52. Lex has said during H'El on Earth that Superman is the 2nd smartest man on Earth after him. Not sure where Batman is though. He's shown himself to be a better tactician and detective than Superman for sure though.
@FatihBATMAN said: He's shown himself to be a better tactician and detective than Superman for sure though.
Agreed!
why is Luthor so smart then?
He's mastered seemingly every form of science and contrary to what the fans think, DC have portrayed Lex as far smarter than Batman. His resources and prep time skills put him above Bruce, skilled as Bruce may be.
@ULTRAstarkiller: Of course he knows of Batman. Where's your evidence to back up the fact that Superman isn't smarter than Batman? If we focus on just New 52 feats, Superman has been shown capable to speed up his thoughts and absorb information very quickly. Here's my evidence to back this up:
@drgnx said:
@serpent222:
I'm not sure how fast Deathstroke thinks, but Superman been shown to be able to speed up his thoughts to high levels. From what I can tell he needs to force this, there is another scan where he is chasing Wally and Wally notes Superman's sense/perception is catching up or something, meaning it is not a natural state to be in heightened speed. Flash/speedsters seem similar (can't imagine them having a conversation with humans if they could not slow down their perception), but can do it much faster than Superman.
Gallery
Most of these are DCnU but the first pick is pe-flashpoint. I don't know the full context of the first scan though, seems straight forward.
Now if Batman could speed up his thoughts then this would be a fair assumption to make but so far Superman seems to be smarter than Batman. And don't get me started on Pre New 52 feats which depict Lex and Superman far above Batman in terms of intellect.
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
Batman is the smartest because no matter what happens you always know that Batman will say "Ha! I knew your plan all along and I did ______ to stop it"
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
Yeah Snyder tries to show that Batman is an human even being smarter he can make errors. But still he is too unprepared.
Except in Snyder Batman where Batman is apparently an unprepared idiot.
So very true. It's one thing to make him more human and less "Bat-god". But it's going too far to make him incompetant and Snyder has done on multiple occassions.
- I would have to agree.
- As far as i'm concerned, Snyder's Batman is an arrogant extremely incompetent idiot. I don't have many positive things to say about his writing on this Batman run either.
Intellect isn't just how fast you can think or how much information you can retain. It's a broad term that can also include critical or analytic reasoning. Seeing how Batman is the greatest detective, a job required to use a lot of logic and reasoning, Superman is not more intelligent in this respect. These skills are displayed greatly in the comics and definitely the New 52.
@m_man: I'll give you that. But in terms of knowledge and versatility of said knowledge, Superman wins out in that regard. Besides given that his archnemesis is a genius whose intellect and prep time feats outshadow Batman's who has never managed to kill Superman, I think it's easy enough to see that Batman wouldn't be any more difficult than Luthor.
Yeah, in scientific knowledge Superman is often more brilliant but vice versa has also been true depending on the writer
As for Luther having greater prep feats I'm not so sure, although he might have greater prep feats, Luthor is actively carrying out his prep on Superman and JLA while Batman keeps his prep for JLA and Superman on lockdown and never really uses it because he's never had a need to, and when it was used it was extremely effective. His contingency plan was recently stolen yet again in the New 52 and only Superman's was stolen, I believe, so we'll probably see that carried out as well. Not to mention Superman has stated that Batman is the most dangerous man alive.
@m_man: He's also stated that Martian Manhunter is the most powerful being in the world. That statement only holds credibility based on feats. For all Batman's prep, there's not much he can do to counter Superman's speed. And I can't see why Luthor actively carrying out his prep makes a difference between him and Batman.
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