@saren: You're right in stating that Luthor's intellect is PIS, but we Superman fan oys don't talk about it much. What I was trying to say is that Luthor's intellect has to be PIS or he wouldn't be able to challenge Superman and his function in comics would be nulled.
In admitting that Batman's intelligence is plot-based, you're admitting that Batman is a PIS character and that's what the OP and I are arguing. The problem isn't that he's a PIS character, that problem is that there is a logical inconsistency in portraying him as one. How can he struggle with the Joker and a Penguin, but stay alive with against Superman and Darkseid?
The point in me stating that Batman wasn't created to fight guys like Superman 70+ years ago wasn't to say the character shouldn't change, it to say that Batman shouldn't be facing off against beings like Superman. It's a disservice to Superman AND it is a betrayal of the message of the character.
I never said Luthor's intellect was PIS; you are conflating my words with entropy's. I did not say Batman was a PIS character either. Intelligence is one of those traits in comics that is so open-ended and poorly defined that it can be interpreted in a million different ways depending on who's doing the writing. To critique Batman's intelligence as PIS, you'd have to call Iron Man, Black Panther, Reed Richards, the Atom, T.O. Morrow, Sivana and more or less every other genius in comics a PIS-based character, because they've all had their intelligence boosted or modified over the decades to keep pace with the changing climate, as well as having it kept as a floating variable in any story they're in.
There is a logical inconsistency in portraying a wide range of characters for very simple reasons. Why does Superman even have villains like Livewire and Toyman? What is Captain America doing on a team that faces off against Kang and Ultron? Why is Hawkeye even alive when he's using weaponry that was obsolete 500 years ago? How does Flash take on Zoom if he has problems with Trickster and Tar Pit? How does Green Lantern struggle with Shark and then fight Mongul? Characters aren't alive or fixed quantities. They do what the writer thinks they can do, and the beliefs of the writer and the demands of the story, spread over a variety of different places and contexts characters have to pop up in, create that inconsistency you're talking about. It affects practically any and all characters. Batman gets singled out for crap like this because people can't stop bellyaching about the time he beat up their favorite hero at some point or another. Again, we have been through all of this. Literally the only thing you keep bringing to this thread is the constant "But that doesn't make sense/Not what they were created for" refrains.
Really, that's what you're going with? It's a disservice to Superman? You're right; as we all know, the true message of Superman, the purpose he was designed for, and the values he represents, all come down to whether or not he can beat Batman in a fight. That's what's important. That's his message and his ideals and everything he stands for. The Superman Question has been put to rest.
There's a disservice being done to Superman when this topic comes around, but you can rest assured Batman has nothing to do with it.
Log in to comment