Batman 18-ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME ? (spoilers)

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#101 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6040 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Yeah, if they'd just done grief as a limited series of its' own, the other Batman titles could have just carried on as usual without being interrupted by it as much.

#102 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

#103 Posted by akbogert (3181 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: Frankly I think slapping "Requiem" on Batgirl was ridiculous. Seeing how the other characters deal with it makes sense if they were close to Damian, so to that end you'd still want it to be handled in other titles. And I thought Snyder capitalized on it very well here, using it to help build Harper. I didn't read it as him setting her up as Robin; just as him really fleshing her out a bit. I figure, if you have a character you plan to make big, and you get an opportunity like this to really step outside the typical progression and deal with an external issue while simultaneously serving your own desires as a writer, more power to ya.

#104 Posted by havoc1201 (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

lol wow i have been reading Batman for twenty years and i love his past and i also love what Snyder has been doing, even tho issue 18 was weak compared to Batman and Robins emotional book. so i dont follow your logic in saying if you like Snyder then you dont know Batman bc well over the years many writers have changed how we see the Bat, Morrison being one of them so really that is a opinion and not a fact.

#105 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@havoc1201 said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

lol wow i have been reading Batman for twenty years and i love his past and i also love what Snyder has been doing, even tho issue 18 was weak compared to Batman and Robins emotional book. so i dont follow your logic in saying if you like Snyder then you dont know Batman bc well over the years many writers have changed how we see the Bat, Morrison being one of them so really that is a opinion and not a fact.

I'm trying to say that almost all of the guys that are loving each issue and in their reviews they are giving the issues five stars don't notice the fact that Snyder isn't so brilliant at all.His stories are remakes of Morrison's run and other writers' stories.His stories are something like that but they kind of get another turn.

#106 Posted by wessaari (621 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

#107 Posted by havoc1201 (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

QFT my friend

#108 Posted by wessaari (621 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@wessaari said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@akbogert said:

@TimeLordScience: They can't have a Batman & Robin ongoing without a Robin. There will have to be some new Robin sooner rather than later unless that book is already announced as having been cancelled. Five issues of grieving are in the wings -- which takes us to September. I sincerely doubt we're going to see a more likely candidate for the position arise anytime soon.

There is that rumour about sixteen titles being cancelled so that they can launch four new weekly titles in October. Maybe Batman And Robin will be cancelled once the five stages of grief arc is over.

ive heard that rumor as well. To me that is the worst thing that they can do, but Tomasi has to find a way to make the title work with Damian gone. Making Harper Robin so soon is the wrong move, but its not worth cancelling a title that is one of the best sellers in DC right now. I dont particularly like it sometimes, but i doubt DC would cancel one of its top sellers

I agree that the weekly titles, and making her Robin so soon are bad ideas, if she does become Robin that is.

Even if it is one of the top sellers, Damian being gone will probably change the dynamic of it quite a bit, so it won't quite be the same series as i was before. The fact that they're willing to rename the issues without Damian suggests that they may be willing to rename the whole series when a new partner comes in, so it's possible that instead of cancelling it, they might just rename it Batman And "Harper"(whatever she calls herself).

If they decide to just cancel it, it's possible that the team behind it may move on to working on the weekly Batman series instead.

true, but im just seriously hoping DC doesn't go down that route

#109 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

I respect Snyder and I like Court of Owls and Night of the Owls but just DOTF didn't feel like the real thing in the end.And for Harper I'm not happy.I like Snyder but I just think that sometimes he just retells some stories in his own way.

#110 Posted by wessaari (621 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

I respect Snyder and I like Court of Owls and Night of the Owls but just DOTF didn't feel like the real thing in the end.And for Harper I'm not happy.I like Snyder but I just think that sometimes he just retells some stories in his own way.

eh, I see where you can think that. I didn't necessarily like how DOTF ended and the reason why Harper has been featured is because she is a character that means alot to him and he wants to feature her more. I see what you're saying about retelling stories, because no matter how hard Snyder tries Zero Year has Year One written all over it. Now I hope its not just a retelling, but just a different take altogether, but at the end of the day it is an origin story like Year One was. That much i will agree with you, and I am very worried about how it will turn out, because it is a huge gamble.

#111 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

I respect Snyder and I like Court of Owls and Night of the Owls but just DOTF didn't feel like the real thing in the end.And for Harper I'm not happy.I like Snyder but I just think that sometimes he just retells some stories in his own way.

eh, I see where you can think that. I didn't necessarily like how DOTF ended and the reason why Harper has been featured is because she is a character that means alot to him and he wants to feature her more. I see what you're saying about retelling stories, because no matter how hard Snyder tries Zero Year has Year One written all over it. Now I hope its not just a retelling, but just a different take altogether, but at the end of the day it is an origin story like Year One was. That much i will agree with you, and I am very worried about how it will turn out, because it is a huge gamble.

I really thing that Zero Year will be pointless because everyone is going to say that it's a rip-off of Year One and everybody will be comparing it with Year One and I think there isn't a possible way for it to be better than Year One.Also Batman is one of the characters that doesn't get his origin redone that often and I really don't want to see it remade because it may suck or I'm not going to like it.

#112 Posted by Black_Claw (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think Zero Year is pretty unneeded because for the most part, Batman's history (along with Green Lanterns) has remained mostly the same in the new 52. And PLEASE don't make Harper the next Robin. Bats just lost his biological son and I think having another Robin at this point is just way too soon.

#113 Posted by MuyJingo (1537 posts) - - Show Bio

@Black_Claw said:

I also think Zero Year is pretty unneeded because for the most part, Batman's history (along with Green Lanterns) has remained mostly the same in the new 52.

That's just not true, despite people saying it. GL is unchanged, Batman has actually changed quite a bit.

#114 Posted by wessaari (621 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

I respect Snyder and I like Court of Owls and Night of the Owls but just DOTF didn't feel like the real thing in the end.And for Harper I'm not happy.I like Snyder but I just think that sometimes he just retells some stories in his own way.

eh, I see where you can think that. I didn't necessarily like how DOTF ended and the reason why Harper has been featured is because she is a character that means alot to him and he wants to feature her more. I see what you're saying about retelling stories, because no matter how hard Snyder tries Zero Year has Year One written all over it. Now I hope its not just a retelling, but just a different take altogether, but at the end of the day it is an origin story like Year One was. That much i will agree with you, and I am very worried about how it will turn out, because it is a huge gamble.

I really thing that Zero Year will be pointless because everyone is going to say that it's a rip-off of Year One and everybody will be comparing it with Year One and I think there isn't a possible way for it to be better than Year One.Also Batman is one of the characters that doesn't get his origin redone that often and I really don't want to see it remade because it may suck or I'm not going to like it.

i just hope that we can see a different side of the story and it won't go over the time Year One did. Especially since this is New 52, and the time span of Bruce's training is different from the past, it really is needed to actually set up certain events in the New 52, but it needs to stand on its own story instead of trying to do what Year One did

#115 Edited by entropy_aegis (14123 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

It's so awesome when untalented writers shoehorn their created characters down the reader's throat.

yeah this is nothing like when Morrison shoved Damian down our throats

You're right, it's not like that because Morrison is a genius and Snyder is a hack who rips off better writers, like Morrison.

And Damian was sooo shoved down the reader's throats. He starred in an arc, then was gone for around 12 issues, showed up now and then in another and was written in Batman and Robin, which was a partner-story And if you want to complain that Tim was "shoved aside", he got a new role as an independent crime fighter and his own comic series. Geez, how awful for him. And unlike Harper Row who is super-special awesome, Damian actually grew as a character and served a clear purpose.

Pick your battles. Going up against FTBB when it comes to Morrison and Batman is not one you will win.

I'd only lose that battle because in your mind you're always right but the problem is that you really don't actually bring any credible points to the battle only elitist fanboy nonsense....Harper has only appeared in 4 issues and each of them has been spread at least 5 issues apart so yeah she hasn't grown as a character yet...everyone hated Damian when he was introduced and almost all of his development came from Tomasi not from Morrison.....just because you're a Morrison fanboy doesn't mean that every other writer is a hack...get over yourself and try to enjoy things...if you don't you're only going to stress yourself out and put yourself in an early grave

You'd lose that battle cause you have no idea what you're talking about,Tomasi only started writing Damian less than 2 years ago,who do you think was writing him prior to that? Remember the original Batman and Robin series by Morrison? oh yeah..

Damian was hated for 2 reasons when he was introduced:

First of all he was unlikable(and that's cause he was intentionally written that way)

Secondly cause he was Batman's biological son.

Harper on the other hand,she's Stephanie Brown 2.0,she dresses like Catwoman,and it's blatantly clear that they're pushing her hard.Simply put Harper is being disliked cause she's unoriginal and unnecessary.

#116 Posted by entropy_aegis (14123 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

Pretty much.

#117 Posted by danhimself (22218 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

It's so awesome when untalented writers shoehorn their created characters down the reader's throat.

yeah this is nothing like when Morrison shoved Damian down our throats

You're right, it's not like that because Morrison is a genius and Snyder is a hack who rips off better writers, like Morrison.

And Damian was sooo shoved down the reader's throats. He starred in an arc, then was gone for around 12 issues, showed up now and then in another and was written in Batman and Robin, which was a partner-story And if you want to complain that Tim was "shoved aside", he got a new role as an independent crime fighter and his own comic series. Geez, how awful for him. And unlike Harper Row who is super-special awesome, Damian actually grew as a character and served a clear purpose.

Pick your battles. Going up against FTBB when it comes to Morrison and Batman is not one you will win.

I'd only lose that battle because in your mind you're always right but the problem is that you really don't actually bring any credible points to the battle only elitist fanboy nonsense....Harper has only appeared in 4 issues and each of them has been spread at least 5 issues apart so yeah she hasn't grown as a character yet...everyone hated Damian when he was introduced and almost all of his development came from Tomasi not from Morrison.....just because you're a Morrison fanboy doesn't mean that every other writer is a hack...get over yourself and try to enjoy things...if you don't you're only going to stress yourself out and put yourself in an early grave

You'd lose that battle cause you have no idea what you're talking about,Tomasi only started writing Damian less than 2 years ago,who do you think was writing him prior to that? Remember the original Batman and Robin series by Morrison? oh yeah..

Damian was hated for 2 reasons when he was introduced:

First of all he was unlikable(and that's cause he was intentionally written that way)

Secondly cause he was Batman's biological son.

Harper on the other hand,she's Stephanie Brown 2.0,she dresses like Catwoman,and it's blatantly clear that they're pushing her hard.Simply put Harper is being disliked cause she's unoriginal and unnecessary.

again...most of Damian's character growth and fan appeal came from Tomasi's Batman and Robin series

Harper has been in 4 issues over the course of one and a half years...how in the he!! does that equate to her being pushed on anyone? I'm not saying that I like one character or writer over the other but you Morrison fanboys are being really unreasonable here....just because Morrison isn't writing something doesn't automatically make it bad

#118 Edited by entropy_aegis (14123 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

It's so awesome when untalented writers shoehorn their created characters down the reader's throat.

yeah this is nothing like when Morrison shoved Damian down our throats

You're right, it's not like that because Morrison is a genius and Snyder is a hack who rips off better writers, like Morrison.

And Damian was sooo shoved down the reader's throats. He starred in an arc, then was gone for around 12 issues, showed up now and then in another and was written in Batman and Robin, which was a partner-story And if you want to complain that Tim was "shoved aside", he got a new role as an independent crime fighter and his own comic series. Geez, how awful for him. And unlike Harper Row who is super-special awesome, Damian actually grew as a character and served a clear purpose.

Pick your battles. Going up against FTBB when it comes to Morrison and Batman is not one you will win.

I'd only lose that battle because in your mind you're always right but the problem is that you really don't actually bring any credible points to the battle only elitist fanboy nonsense....Harper has only appeared in 4 issues and each of them has been spread at least 5 issues apart so yeah she hasn't grown as a character yet...everyone hated Damian when he was introduced and almost all of his development came from Tomasi not from Morrison.....just because you're a Morrison fanboy doesn't mean that every other writer is a hack...get over yourself and try to enjoy things...if you don't you're only going to stress yourself out and put yourself in an early grave

You'd lose that battle cause you have no idea what you're talking about,Tomasi only started writing Damian less than 2 years ago,who do you think was writing him prior to that? Remember the original Batman and Robin series by Morrison? oh yeah..

Damian was hated for 2 reasons when he was introduced:

First of all he was unlikable(and that's cause he was intentionally written that way)

Secondly cause he was Batman's biological son.

Harper on the other hand,she's Stephanie Brown 2.0,she dresses like Catwoman,and it's blatantly clear that they're pushing her hard.Simply put Harper is being disliked cause she's unoriginal and unnecessary.

again...most of Damian's character growth and fan appeal came from Tomasi's Batman and Robin series

Harper has been in 4 issues over the course of one and a half years...how in the he!! does that equate to her being pushed on anyone? I'm not saying that I like one character or writer over the other but you Morrison fanboys are being really unreasonable here....just because Morrison isn't writing something doesn't automatically make it bad

WRONG,people actually hated Tomasis Damian early on(first few issues) and all this praise for Tomasi is due to the work he's put out in the last 3 months(Annual,last 3 issues of Batman & Robin),before that his work on Damian was solid but not outstanding.

Morrison(the original Batman & Robin run is unmatchable),Bryan Miller(Batgirl) and Dini(Streets of Gotham) made people care about Damian,you must have short term memory or you're just ignorant.

She's being pushed by simply being there,she's merely a hybrid of certain Bat family characters.Stephanie Brown's background(with a gay brother twist),Harolds expertise,Catwoman costume,Tim Drake attitude,looks like Ellie.The reason why she's being hated is cause the characters she's leeching from have been screwed over in the new-52.

Why should I give this character a chance when DC casually disposed of or radically altered some of their most popular properties? it has absolutely nothing to do with Morrison by the way.

#119 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@wessaari said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

wow that is a very judgmental and unnecessary overview of what you believe, too bad that people who actually like and know Batman read it

I'm also reading it because he is my favorite character but I haven't enjoyed the last few issues at all.

ya well not everything's perfect man, and I agree that these past couple issues weren't Snyder's best, but they weren't detrimental to his character. If you wanna read some crappy Batman stories read some of the Batman: The Dark Knight series. I think that Snyder really succeeded with his Batman run, and alot of people think he "rips" off Morrison, but people have to realize that not everything is original nowadays, even Morrison, so there might be similar concepts but that doesn't defend that Snyder is ripping of Grant. Both writers are distinguishable in their own ways

I respect Snyder and I like Court of Owls and Night of the Owls but just DOTF didn't feel like the real thing in the end.And for Harper I'm not happy.I like Snyder but I just think that sometimes he just retells some stories in his own way.

eh, I see where you can think that. I didn't necessarily like how DOTF ended and the reason why Harper has been featured is because she is a character that means alot to him and he wants to feature her more. I see what you're saying about retelling stories, because no matter how hard Snyder tries Zero Year has Year One written all over it. Now I hope its not just a retelling, but just a different take altogether, but at the end of the day it is an origin story like Year One was. That much i will agree with you, and I am very worried about how it will turn out, because it is a huge gamble.

I really thing that Zero Year will be pointless because everyone is going to say that it's a rip-off of Year One and everybody will be comparing it with Year One and I think there isn't a possible way for it to be better than Year One.Also Batman is one of the characters that doesn't get his origin redone that often and I really don't want to see it remade because it may suck or I'm not going to like it.

i just hope that we can see a different side of the story and it won't go over the time Year One did. Especially since this is New 52, and the time span of Bruce's training is different from the past, it really is needed to actually set up certain events in the New 52, but it needs to stand on its own story instead of trying to do what Year One did

Nah.DOn't think so.It would be big inspirational story that came from Batman:Year One but just the villains are changed and the fact that the story will be for 11 freaking issues.

#120 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@danhimself said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

It's so awesome when untalented writers shoehorn their created characters down the reader's throat.

yeah this is nothing like when Morrison shoved Damian down our throats

You're right, it's not like that because Morrison is a genius and Snyder is a hack who rips off better writers, like Morrison.

And Damian was sooo shoved down the reader's throats. He starred in an arc, then was gone for around 12 issues, showed up now and then in another and was written in Batman and Robin, which was a partner-story And if you want to complain that Tim was "shoved aside", he got a new role as an independent crime fighter and his own comic series. Geez, how awful for him. And unlike Harper Row who is super-special awesome, Damian actually grew as a character and served a clear purpose.

Pick your battles. Going up against FTBB when it comes to Morrison and Batman is not one you will win.

I'd only lose that battle because in your mind you're always right but the problem is that you really don't actually bring any credible points to the battle only elitist fanboy nonsense....Harper has only appeared in 4 issues and each of them has been spread at least 5 issues apart so yeah she hasn't grown as a character yet...everyone hated Damian when he was introduced and almost all of his development came from Tomasi not from Morrison.....just because you're a Morrison fanboy doesn't mean that every other writer is a hack...get over yourself and try to enjoy things...if you don't you're only going to stress yourself out and put yourself in an early grave

You see, your problem is that you criticise me for the same things you do.

You chastise me for having conviction in what I say, or rather "believing myself to always be right", and yet you make outlandish statements about everyone hating Damian, and then that all of his development came from Tomasi and not Morrison, which is just ludicrous. Honestly, you see criticism as a solely negative thing, which shows a tremendous misunderstanding about how things work. And before you get all uppity and self-righteous, as you are want to do, take the advice you dish out. I'll ignore it, because it's nonsense, but you ought to really take it on board.

And Harper was missing for a year? So was Damian. It's best you not publicise your tremendous ignorance, rather, keep it locked away where only you know just how little you understand things.

Anyway, I'm bored of you, as I usually am, not because I'm an arrogant douche as you're probably thinking, but rather because you're simply not interesting.

Have a good one.

EDIT: I am an arrogant douche, but I can live with that. ^__^

#121 Edited by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the base of the Harper Row character, but this entire thing is trash. Why can't Snyder is just ripping off yet another character and story. Harper Row is simply a female Tim Drake... What annoys me, other than the whole fast forwardness of making Harper Robin which is shitty to begin with, is that she is a female Tim Drake where Tim Drake no longer is Tim Drake v.v. so in DCnU Batverse where it was supposed to be largely unnaffect by flashpoint we have lost the following characters

  1. Barbara Gordon as we knew her
  2. Tim Drake as we knew him
  3. Jason Todd as we knew him
  4. Crimson
  5. Stephanie Brown
  6. Cassandra Cain
  7. Proxy
  8. Misfit
  9. Black Alice
  10. Damian Wayne
  11. Tam Fox
  12. The Teen Titans
  13. Young Justice
  14. Huntress as we knew her
  15. Catwoman as we knew her
  16. Catwoman II
  17. Helena Kyle
  18. Catgirl
  19. Nite-Wing
  20. Renee Montoya
  21. Lynx
  22. Lynx II
  23. Anarky

and we gained...

  1. Harper Row (aka Tim Drake rip off)
  2. The Doll Maker
  3. Talon (aka Azrael rip off)

Yeah that seems awesome to me v.v

#122 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

For those curious, here's the solicit for Detective Comics #21. And my reaction.

#123 Posted by batshrine (969 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

I like the base of the Harper Row character, but this entire thing is trash. Why can't Snyder is just ripping off yet another character and story. Harper Row is simply a female Tim Drake... What annoys me, other than the whole fast forwardness of making Harper Robin which is shitty to begin with, is that she is a female Tim Drake where Tim Drake no longer is Tim Drake v.v. so in DCnU Batverse where it was supposed to be largely unnaffect by flashpoint we have lost the following characters

  1. Barbara Gordon as we knew her
  2. Tim Drake as we knew him
  3. Jason Todd as we knew him
  4. Crimson
  5. Stephanie Brown
  6. Cassandra Cain
  7. Proxy
  8. Misfit
  9. Black Alice
  10. Damian Wayne
  11. Tam Fox
  12. The Teen Titans
  13. Young Justice
  14. Huntress as we knew her
  15. Catwoman as we knew her
  16. Catwoman II
  17. Helena Kyle
  18. Catgirl
  19. Nite-Wing
  20. Renee Montoya
  21. Lynx
  22. Lynx II
  23. Anarky

and we gained...

  1. Harper Row (aka Tim Drake rip off)
  2. The Doll Maker
  3. Talon (aka Azrael rip off)

Yeah that seems awesome to me v.v

I don't think it is fair to say that characters we currently have don't count because the character has "changed" Characters change in the comic world all the same but lets be thankful we still have many of those characters. I also do wish we had some old players back, and I am hopeful they will show up eventually but just because we lost some characters does not mean we can't or shouldn't get any new ones. The Bat world should always be growing and changing, and I am for adding to the cast. And if you really want to know whats special about Harper, she is the only one that has a sibling that isn't some evil psychopath. She has the common person's view of Batman, and she also isn't going to becoming Robin anytime soon.

Do I miss those other characters, yes (a lot actually), but I am not going to fight DC creating new ones because they took away some favorites of mine in the past. My only hope is that they do bring them back (which they will seeing that Cassandra and Stephanie are both WANTED).

PS. We had Damian post flashpoint, so why is he on this list?

#124 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: After I saw the cover I thought: 'Seriously?She is Catwoman now?'

If she becomes Robin or even a Catwoman rip off I will start hating Snyder.

#125 Posted by RustyRoy (10717 posts) - - Show Bio

@inferiorego said:

Why continue to read something you hate?

Good question. Because we love to hate.

#126 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

It's so awesome when untalented writers shoehorn their created characters down the reader's throat.

I don't think that Snyder is untalented in the slightest. I just don't think he should be writing Batman anymore. Everything else he's written outside of the realm of Batman has been fantastic, but that's because his style of storytelling actually works in the other books he's written. That's not to say that I dislike all of his work in the Bat-verse; The Black Mirror is one of my favorite Batman stories of all time. But Snyder's Batman in the New 52 has definitely fallen flat (maybe he just writes a better Grayson than a Wayne). I liked about half of the Court of Owls arc, then it gradually got less and less engaging and it became more apparent that there really wasn't anything new on the table. Death of the Family was a giant clusterf**k and completely unnecessary, and 18 was my least favorite issue of the series yet... its like a slow, crawling decline (strangely similar to the slow, crawling development that Snyder uses in everything he's ever written).

What it boils down to is, I think Snyder is a good (sometimes great) writer overall, but a mediocre-to-poor Batman writer.

#127 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Imagine_Man15: I think the same way.Everything else he has made rather than Batman since the New 52 was almost brilliant and was really entertaining(for example Swamp Thing and maybe half of American Vampire) but in the final issues of Night of Owls it started going downhill.The same was with Death of the Family,it started like an average story but in the end big nothing.And issue 18 was the worst Batman issue since the start of his run after Batman #17.

#128 Posted by darkwingdan (186 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinestro_GL said:

To be fair...I think the move was a bit too soon by DC to depict Harper they way they did: as a potential sidekick

That is the only reason I have problems with this issue. Sure, the art (by the normally exceptional Andy Kubert) didn't do much for me, but writing can cause me to overlook art I don't care for. And Harper is a character that I can see adding much value to the Batman mythos down the road. But Snyder seems to want her as an integral part of Batman's supporting cast now, which is forced and in poor taste in light of recent events. If we had seen more of the same Harper we saw in issue #12, a lot of people wouldn't have a problem with this. However, by drastically improving her physical prowess from the last time we saw her, Snyder is forcing a Damian replacement on us way too soon.

#129 Posted by sinestro_GL (3030 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan said:

@sinestro_GL said:

To be fair...I think the move was a bit too soon by DC to depict Harper they way they did: as a potential sidekick

That is the only reason I have problems with this issue. Sure, the art (by the normally exceptional Andy Kubert) didn't do much for me, but writing can cause me to overlook art I don't care for. And Harper is a character that I can see adding much value to the Batman mythos down the road. But Snyder seems to want her as an integral part of Batman's supporting cast now, which is forced and in poor taste in light of recent events. If we had seen more of the same Harper we saw in issue #12, a lot of people wouldn't have a problem with this. However, by drastically improving her physical prowess from the last time we saw her, Snyder is forcing a Damian replacement on us way too soon.

I don't blame Snyder as much as I blame Morrison. His decision to kill off Damian meant that the writers in the other Bat books have to accommodate his story, and due to the nature of Damian's death, this is something that has to be drawn out over the course of the foreseeable future.

#130 Posted by Saren (25241 posts) - - Show Bio

Snyder stated on Twitter that he knew Morrison was going to kill off Damian from well before he even started his new 52 run on Batman. There's no point in trying to shift the blame for Snyder's crap onto Morrison. He had more than enough time to prepare the story he wanted to tell......and he chose this.

Moderator
#131 Posted by consolemaster001 (4903 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

For those curious, here's the solicit for Detective Comics #21. And my reaction.

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#132 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope that the Robin mantle is going to get some rest for the time being.....

I really don't want to see Harper as the new Robin for now.

#133 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Snyder stated on Twitter that he knew Morrison was going to kill off Damian from well before he even started his new 52 run on Batman. There's no point in trying to shift the blame for Snyder's crap onto Morrison. He had more than enough time to prepare the story he wanted to tell......and he chose this.

- This.

- Additionally, i highly dislike Snyder's run on Batman as it has been mediocre at best, and the very best of his run was the Court of the Owls arc in my opinion.

- I can't wait until he gets off of Batman, and when i say that i sincerely mean it.

#134 Edited by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO

#135 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Harper doesnt become robin. Snyder,Tomasi, or Layman is going to try to make her batman's new sidekick. She just probably wont be called robin. But if Batman and Robin turns into Batman and Catgirl then im dropping all bat related books.

#136 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Harper doesnt become robin. Snyder,Tomasi, or Layman is going to try to make her batman's new sidekick. She just probably wont be called robin. But if Batman and Robin turns into Batman and Catgirl then im dropping all bat related books.

lol I don't think that you should drop the Batman title, I'm pretty sure that it will still focus on solo Batman adventures.

#137 Posted by nightwing89 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a Harper fan so far, but we'll see. I definitely think she should not become Robin. But considering Bruce and Jason's apparent repairing of their relationship in the most recent Red Hood, I'm hoping we can have some more focus on their partnership. What I'd love most is if Batman and Robin became Batman and Red Robin, because the Bat Family side of things has seen too little of Tim Drake in the New 52. Even Red Robin on the cover of The Dark Knight #9 meant nothing (which happens a lot with covers, but you'd think Red Robin would've at least had some slight involvement in Night of the Owls due to that cover).

#138 Posted by gettogaara (164 posts) - - Show Bio

I think part of what's bothering me so much about Harper is that she's basically being forced down our throats. I actually really like Synder as a writer but I just can't bring myself to care about this character and the more I see her the less I like her. I mean if she was shown to us more slowly and not having her own segments every other issue, then maybe she would grow on me.

I agree though OP. If she becomes the new Robin, I will drop Batman and Robin quickly.

#139 Posted by edge007 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

I've been reading Batman comics for over 30 years and know and understand the character just fine and Snyder's run (along with Tomasi's) is the first time I've enjoyed the character on a consistent basis since Brubaker and Rucka left.

Maybe the 'real' fans you are speaking of are Morrison fans and not necessarily Batman fans?

#140 Posted by TDK_1997 (14451 posts) - - Show Bio

@edge007 said:

@tdk_1997 said:

Scott Snyder is ruining Batman for the real fans and is making things amazing for those who don't know and understand the characters.

I've been reading Batman comics for over 30 years and know and understand the character just fine and Snyder's run (along with Tomasi's) is the first time I've enjoyed the character on a consistent basis since Brubaker and Rucka left.

Maybe the 'real' fans you are speaking of are Morrison fans and not necessarily Batman fans?

I mean he is ruining the character because he is rewriting what Morrison did.His Court of Owls wasn't bad but wasn't original,it was already out there and it is called The Black Glove.Night of the Owls and City of Owls like basically Batman R.I.P but without the R.I.P. and stuff and his death of the family was also really 'original' and in the end it was pointless also.

So for me when a writer is redoing old stories it's kinda ruining the character.It feels like the character isn't that inspirational and a person can't think of an original idea for a story.

#141 Edited by nightwing89 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I really enjoyed Night of the Owls. I personally didn't enjoy R.I.P., so I don't really draw the comparison there. Death of the Family was disappointing as far as the Joker, but I like how Snyder handled the Bat Family itself in the storyline.

#142 Posted by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

Harper's gross.

#143 Posted by consolemaster001 (4903 posts) - - Show Bio

@wboy said:

Harper's gross.

+1

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