Are Batman and Shiva equal in martial arts skill? If not, who is better? And by how much?

I think Bruce is a little better.

Shiva - Spends her entire life dedicated solely to mastering and perfecting martial arts.

Bruce - Masters detectiving, criminal psychology, engineering, chemistry, biology, technology, dozens of languages, acrobatics, acting, disguise, escape, stealth, strategy, and then does martial arts as like a side thing and still ends up being Shiva's equal.

@nickzambuto: To be fair, martial arts isn't something he learned as a side thing he dedicated his life to learning martial arts as well.

He just also happen to want to be more than just a fighter.

Nope, Bruce already tryed to beat her twice in fair fights and he couldn't, despite his obvious advantage in physicals, once on Detective Comics Annual #1 - Fables, Part 1: The Monkey Trap and again on Batman #427 - A Death In the Family Part 2 the first time neither had the advantage and Shiva herself stop the fight as she was just testing Batman, and on their second confrontation they were stallemating until Robin (Jason Todd) provided the distraction that Batman needed to get the upper hand.

Batman beat Shiva 1-on-1 once because she was mind-controled by gorila grodd, and Shiva beat Batman once on Nightwing #0 - Perpetual Motion because she hitted him with a poisoned shuriken before engaging him in hand-to-hand.

All in all, i would say that Shiva is a bit better than Batman, although thei're in the same league, thei're both top-tier fighters.

Shiva is faar above Batman in Martial arts. She is the one who literally gave him lessons. She beat him every time they fought 1 on 1 and once she beat both him and Dick together.

Catwoman/Joker: Presentation Bias

I think Lady Shiva is better at martial arts, especially since that's part of her mystique, but Batman can handle her with his more adept hand-to-hand combat and wrestling skills.

I would say that Catwoman and Batman are more like equals, since they both are skilled at trolling around.

It all depends on your perspective: do you want the Dark Knight to be paired with a female counterpart or a male sidekick (i.e., Robin/Nightwing)?

From the comics, we do find arguments that Batman's only real equal/rival is the Joker.

@abishai100 said:

Catwoman/Joker: Presentation Bias

I think Lady Shiva is better at martial arts, especially since that's part of her mystique, but Batman can handle her with his more adept hand-to-hand combat and wrestling skills.

I would say that Catwoman and Batman are more like equals, since they both are skilled at trolling around.

It all depends on your perspective: do you want the Dark Knight to be paired with a female counterpart or a male sidekick (i.e., Robin/Nightwing)?

From the comics, we do find arguments that Batman's only real equal/rival is the Joker.

I think that would only be, due to the insanity thing from what I read, The Killing Joke and many other quotes from the Joker, Batman & Joker are only matched nowdays because both of the two have this insanity thing that I don't want to talk about right now. Lady Shiva use to be a match or Batman because he was dull, but now he knows things.

Nope Batman=God.

Jack of all trades.

A Jack of All Trades is a master at none, but often better than a master of one.

Batman has defeated her twice in hand to hand, she has never defeated him in hand to hand. Facts. He is better. They maybe equal in skill but I believe Batman's physicals edges him out.

This is the only right answer

She beat him in New 52 and Batman only beat her when she was either mind controlled or with help of robin.

We also had a fight of Bats vs David Cain which was a very equal one and Shiva promptly stomping Cain while she was pregnant.

Pre flashpoint she never beat him.

Bruce went to her for trainig to get back to strength after Bane broke his back, but all Shiva did was setting uop fight between him and various students of the Armless Master. (And I think Bruce wanted initially to train with the Armless Master but Shiva killed him before, but I might remember it wrong).

She was kicking his ass until Robin came to save him if that counts for something. The fact a small female with no armor can take on a huge armored male and stalemate/have the upper hand is proof of having MA edge over him.

@chimeroid: She poisoned him in new 52

It was a stalemate, and Batman said that could probably take her by out muscling her, but than Jason came to help.

I don't think he was armored. Arround this time the Batcostume was afaik just a costume.

Lady Shiva is 5'8'', thats not so small.

She didnt poison him with aoe. She hit him with a shuriken that was poisoned. Fair enough of a fight if you ask me. He is a bullet dodger he should have dodged it.

Batman has the physical advantage but if I recall correctly it seems like an equal match when they fight so she may be better in regards to skill. Either that or Bruce's morals hinder him.

@thedandyman: It's probably morals in all likeliness because he is extremely skilled.

So are Richard Dragon and David Cain, and loads of other martial artist's that got beat by her.

But yeah, Bruce's morals hinder him, in the sense that he fights not to kill, he could finish fights alot sooner if he went for the kill but he doesn't, he holds back like Cassandra Cain and Connor Hawke.

Although, Shiva herself as a death wish, i mean the woman wants to be killed in battle by a worthy opponent this has been her goal for the most part of her history, if she kils every single opponent she faces she will never get what she wants...this is not say that she lets her opponents win she doesn't she gives her all but i doubt that shes trying to kill otherwise her death wish would never be fullfiled.

@bat_girl_cc: Yes it could you destroy the unworthy opponents but break the worthy ones so that they will come back stronger one day

That makes sense, i guess.

Shiva is a little better skill-wise but Bruce going all out can take her down.

@chimeroid said:

???

She didn't poison him...but she hit him with a shuriken that was poisoned, and thus logically it follow that she poisoned him.

So, no, not a fair fight. Shiva's most impressive feat in that fight was beating up a 16 year-old Dick Grayson on his first day as Robin.

Do you not know what aoe means?

@bat_girl_cc: I wasn't discrediting any other martial artist. I was just pointing out that he was probably as skilled as Shiva.

@chimeroid said:

Area of effect?

yep. point being they both had throwing weapons, they both had cheating weapons (batman has gas pellets and tazers) and she beat him fairly

@chimeroid said:

So she didn't poison him with area of effect...she poisoned him with a direct hit, and a sucker punch to boot?

That doesn't really negate @jayc1324's point that he was poisoned. She got the drop on him, and took him out of the game with poison. It's a valid strategy, but it's certainly far from a fair fight where they both just happen to encounter each other unhampered and go for it.

Two fighters, both stealth masters, both with similar weapons. One wins. Seems pretty fair to me. Even though i do get his point. And he is right in his own way.