@entropy_aegis:

In Jasons case I wouldn't say that Lobdell is the only one, he got at least some good appearances in the superman franchise books.

In the Batman books on the other hand ... Just look at robin War, apart from the quite cool jail break scene, Tim and Jason didn't had much to do appart from playing babysitter for the We Are Robin Kids, and they didn't even let them come up with a decent plan for the attack on the CotO base at Gotham Academy. And them being taken down by Damian was not only embarrassing but also removed them completely from the final showdown of the story.

Not sure which issue you're talking about, but the issue with Tim, Cass, and Steph has Stephanie having been out of the costume for a year and being acknowledged as rusty by all three parties. Tim completely doubts her ability to handle the challenge ahead and makes it very clear that he thinks he or Cass would've been a much better choice. In the event that it was mentioned by Stephanie, so what? That's the worst kind of proof. One character's equal to the other because she claimed to be? Damian Wayne had a low opinion of Tim Drake, doesn't change the fact that Tim proved him wrong time and again (Before Damian was even introduced in fact) with his accomplishments. Feat-wise, Tim Drake trumps Stephanie Brown and trying to say they're equals is laughable. Steph is by a wide margin the worst fighter in the Bat Family Pre-Flashpoint.

Neither Batman or Nightwing, as i've already pointed out, are the equal of their comic book counterparts, just like Deathstroke isn't. So that only applies to their film versions, not their comic book counterparts and the same goes with Damian. The writers wanting Damian to look and be awesome is a given, taking that and then trying to say that he's then the superior of his comic book counterpart is another thing entirely and again, just like the above statement, makes no sense based off of actual feats. Honestly, unless you're going to give the film counterparts of Batman, Nightwing, and Deathstroke the same feats as their comic book counterparts then you have nothing to base them off of except what they actually accomplish in the film, which again leads back to the conclusion that none of them are as skilled as they are in the comics.

I can't remember Dick (or Bruce) taking down Jason that easily. Pre Flashpoint Fights between them were usually very close.

To me this fight is more another example how badly Jason and Tim were often treated in the books of the Batman office these days than a feat for Damian.

New-52 Damian has better feats than his pre-52 counterpart. His fights against Talon,Slade,Heretic and Jason were all impressive but there was context behind each fight and he didn't win all of them,in fact he only beat Talon and that too from behind.

This,though I'd go further and add that Jason and Tim are 2 characters no one in the writing staff apart from Lobdell gives a damn about. But they're both popular so they get published anyway.

Nope, there's lots of evidence, on Tim's last solo series before Flahspoint happened he commented on Steph's skills many times and in how he was impressed (when she easly toke down Prudence, for exemple, after Prudence pointed a gun at her, and Tim was just there staring at them not knowing what to do), etc, although i agree that Tim's feats are better, though i don't think that Steph as Batgirl, is far behind Tim as Red Robin (skill-wise) and yeah Steph is Bat-families worst fighter.

Sure, comics versions have much more appearences and thus much more feats, though quantity =/= quality...my point is that Damian was made seem somthing that he really isn't, or at least not on that level.

That was just Greg Pak and one could argue he did the same that Damian is being accused of except in favour of Jason. The first annual was just dumb.

His showing were maybe a little bit over the top in that Annual, but not more than Batmans.

And in these stories at least he wasn't whiny or incompetent, was willing to use methods the other Batfamily members wouldn't use (like nuking Vandal Savage) to get the job done, wasn't written like Dick or used as comic relief, was part of the main plot and you didn't had the feeling that the writers just put him to have all Batfamily members in the story.

And btw. his appearence in Supergirl was written by Tony Bedard and not by Greg Pak.

I like Damian, he's a complex character that adds more to Bruce's complex life. But what happened to him during the Bat-Gordon arc? can anyone tell me?

@nathaniel_christopher: You mean Gordon?