Am I the only one who thought this was stupid? (DKR Related)

#1 Posted by LiquidPrince (37 posts) - - Show Bio

SPOILERS

Not the movie itself. I absolutely adore the Nolan Batman Trilogy, and couldn't have imagined a more full circle satisfying conclusion to end it. There was only one thing the whole movie that I thought was a tad stupid. The fact that at the end John Blake revealed his name to be Robin... My friends don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say when we had this discussion about why it's stupid on the way back from watching the movie. It felt like, to me, to be the only sort of pandering (not exactly the right word, but I can't think of a better alternative) aspect of the movie. It's like Nolan didn't think that anyone would understand that this guy was going to be the new Robin if he named him Dick Grayson, or Jason Todd, or Tim Drake or whatever. One of the five (or four possible in this case) Robin's.

My friends argue that most people probably wouldn't recognize the name, and think that Blake was going to be the new Batman, but I argue that people would most likely find out that he was going to be Robin afterwards, and have that sort of "ohhhhhhh, damn that's so cool" moment when they figure it out. I don't know, if it's just me, but to name him Robin, is lacking subtlety. I mean for goodness sake, he never even used the word "Catwoman in the entire movie. Robin is the persona, not the name of the actual person... It's like Bruce saying, "maybe you should use my legal name, Mr.Bat" or Selina saying "Miss Cat." Too on the nose. Anyways, this didn't detract ANYTHING from my love of the movie, it was absolutely amazing. I just thought it was a bit weird.

#2 Posted by AweSam (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

Robin's an actual name, unlike Bat or Cat. I also found it unnecessary since we know he's next in line for the role of Batman, but it doesn't me too much. I think he should have named him Jim Blake (get it? Like Tim Drake). The idea was, he's not the actual Robin, he's just Nolan's version. He's not going to become Robin or Nightwing, he's going to become Batman. Bruce was trying to say that Batman isn't a person, it's a symbol. Batman can be anyone, whether it's just a normal person, a billionaire/playboy, a police officer, etc. Batman protects Gotham, not Bruce Wayne, or John Blake, or Robin.

#3 Posted by LiquidPrince (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

Robin's an actual name, unlike Bat or Cat. I also found it unnecessary since we know he's next in line for the role of Batman, but it doesn't me too much. I think he should have named him Jim Blake (get it? Like Tim Drake). The idea was, he's not the actual Robin, he's just Nolan's version. He's not going to become Robin or Nightwing, he's going to become Batman. Bruce was trying to say that Batman isn't a person, it's a symbol. Batman can be anyone, whether it's just a normal person, a billionaire/playboy, a police officer, etc. Batman protects Gotham, not Bruce Wayne, or John Blake, or Robin.

My friends used this argument as well. Cat is totally a real name by the way. Also, if he is going to become Batman, then that's even worse in my opinion. You never introduce a dangling element in the last 10 minutes of a trilogy.

#4 Posted by AweSam (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince said:

@AweSam said:

Robin's an actual name, unlike Bat or Cat. I also found it unnecessary since we know he's next in line for the role of Batman, but it doesn't me too much. I think he should have named him Jim Blake (get it? Like Tim Drake). The idea was, he's not the actual Robin, he's just Nolan's version. He's not going to become Robin or Nightwing, he's going to become Batman. Bruce was trying to say that Batman isn't a person, it's a symbol. Batman can be anyone, whether it's just a normal person, a billionaire/playboy, a police officer, etc. Batman protects Gotham, not Bruce Wayne, or John Blake, or Robin.

My friends used this argument as well. Cat is totally a real name by the way. Also, if he is going to become Batman, then that's even worse in my opinion. You never introduce a dangling element in the last 10 minutes of a trilogy.

That's not worse, it's the only thing that would make sense. If he became Robin, no one would care about him and would just think of him as a Batman wannabe.

#5 Posted by CrimsonCake (2668 posts) - - Show Bio

It was Nolan's own interpretation of robin.

#6 Posted by LiquidPrince (37 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonCake said:

It was Nolan's own interpretation of robin.

That's fine. Why name him Robin though as opposed to one of the four male Robin names he could have given him.

#7 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince said:

@CrimsonCake said:

It was Nolan's own interpretation of robin.

That's fine. Why name him Robin though as opposed to one of the four male Robin names he could have given him.

For one thing, naming the character Dick Grayson or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne would give the game away... personally I prefer the amalgam references instead, a little reference to all three gives a nod to the characters, while saying that he's something different... he's not Dick Grayson, or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne... he's the character that they represent, the partner, the sidekick, he is, for all intents and purposes Robin

#8 Edited by Quintus_Knightfall (84356 posts) - - Show Bio

Its a wink and a nod for the Comicbook fan naming him Robin and waiting till the end to reveal it. In my opinion he (Nolan) didnt want the general public watching Blake do his thing while viewing him as Robin/another comicbook hero. Most of us comic fans had a feeling throughout who he was, but for the average movie goer I think the idea was to display him as normal guy fighting the good fight without special training, gadgets, etc. Just a good cop in an un-winnable situation inspired by Batman the symbol, Bruce Wayne the man, and the ideal that Batman could be anybody.

Moderator
#9 Posted by ratman19 (525 posts) - - Show Bio

i remember watching the movie and getting excited when she said robin and looking around to see if anyone noticed.

#10 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hunter114 said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@CrimsonCake said:

It was Nolan's own interpretation of robin.

That's fine. Why name him Robin though as opposed to one of the four male Robin names he could have given him.

For one thing, naming the character Dick Grayson or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne would give the game away... personally I prefer the amalgam references instead, a little reference to all three gives a nod to the characters, while saying that he's something different... he's not Dick Grayson, or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne... he's the character that they represent, the partner, the sidekick, he is, for all intents and purposes Robin

That's the way I thought of it too. I noticed a lot of personality and character traits in Blake such as Dick Grayson's optimism, Tim Drake's intelligence and even Jason Todd's aggression. I loved the Idea of Blake Being an Amalgam of Robins.

#11 Posted by Webjaker (366 posts) - - Show Bio

@Suprman said:

@Hunter114 said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@CrimsonCake said:

It was Nolan's own interpretation of robin.

That's fine. Why name him Robin though as opposed to one of the four male Robin names he could have given him.

For one thing, naming the character Dick Grayson or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne would give the game away... personally I prefer the amalgam references instead, a little reference to all three gives a nod to the characters, while saying that he's something different... he's not Dick Grayson, or Jason Todd or Tim Drake or Damien Wayne... he's the character that they represent, the partner, the sidekick, he is, for all intents and purposes Robin

That's the way I thought of it too. I noticed a lot of personality and character traits in Blake such as Dick Grayson's optimism, Tim Drake's intelligence and even Jason Todd's aggression. I loved the Idea of Blake Being an Amalgam of Robins.

When you put it like that - I guess i agree. I was thrown off by that, it was the one scene i would have taken out. But i see your point now.

Robin Jonathon Blake - Hot Head
#12 Posted by TheGodofThunder (578 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't like that his actually name was Robin either. When the lady said she likes his full name, I thought he was gonna say something like, "My last name is actually Valley" as in Jean paul valley. That would've been awesome.

#13 Posted by Apocalyptic_P (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was stupid of him to have the name robin...It would have been way better if he said Tim Drake because only the batman fans would have got it right away, then everyone else would go home and google it and find out who tim drake is and probably be even more surprised cause they used there own detective skills (like batman) to figure it out. haha

#14 Posted by antimonitorrules (107 posts) - - Show Bio

I just wish they would've had his name as Dick Greyson. He didn't have to become robin even if that was the case. Remember, Dick has become Batman on several occasions in the comics, so it would make sense that he just becomes batman.

#15 Posted by kamakazi152 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

I really like the amalgam of Robins idea because it makes so much sense. I wasn't very happy about it at first, but I feel like that actually makes sense and its true he has traits from the previous Robin Character. I think it would have been cool to name him Tim Drake also but only if they were going to have someone make a Nightwing movie, otherwise with the ending it wouldn't have fit in the story properly IMO.

#16 Posted by KenTheProfile (412 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince: what I thought was stupid was the way everybody just Believed Bane about Harvey Dent. did i miss his proof? i did got to the restroom about then.

#17 Posted by Duke_Nasty (1017 posts) - - Show Bio

@KenTheProfile: I felt like a lot of things happened without explanation. Maybe I just need to see it again.

#18 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah I'm fine with it.

#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing was wrong with it, it wasn't a bad thing or a particularly good thing

#20 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince: It was just a little fan service for the audience, something to get a light chuckle out of and say "ahh". Nothing deeper was intended.

#21 Posted by cosmo111687 (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince: I completely agree.

#22 Posted by SupBatz (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince: Agreed 100%. I've been trying to put that argument into words since I saw the movie but have been having trouble getting my point across. It doesn't ruin the movie or anything. It's just that moment where I sort of shake my head and say "Yeah, whatever."

#23 Posted by Holuntron (193 posts) - - Show Bio

I entirely agree and that is one of the main things I especially disliked. No Robin is named "Robin" and by saying that Nolan just slapped every Batman fan in the world, telling them they are just too stupid to comprehend that Blake would be the next Batman otherwise. I would have accepted a number of names. Any Robin's name for example, or even Jean-Paul Valley or Michael Washington Lane. I thought this part was entirely unacceptable and was one of the (surprisingly frequent) times that movie offended me in such a way.

#24 Posted by RobinRX (8 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would have been too obvious to the comic book fans to name him after one of the Robins. It would be one of those things half the people who went to see the movie might not get, and be confused when when the other half of the theater gets it and feels special.

Robin as his name fits perfectly. There's no obligations to be subtle (like not saying 'Catwoman') or in your face (like Talia's reveal). Nolan's movies always put a new spin on these things and it's no different here.

It doesn't overstep any boundaries, it's not so serious, it works within the film continuity, and doesn't pander to anyone. I like to think that since JGL's character is even a little embarassed by it, the filmmakers themselves understand how people often react to Robin due to the portrayals of him in other media.

The ending sequence with Blake finding the Batcave and Gordon seeing the repaired Bat-Signal all point to one thing: Blake is going to become the new Batman, and Gordon will help him. It's the filmmakers saying "our Robin is different."

#25 Posted by Saucedo17 (135 posts) - - Show Bio

Funny me and my friend just saw and at the end of movie I was telling my friend on how stupid they introduce robin

#26 Posted by eatmore_payless (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince:

#27 Edited by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get why people keep saying they wanted his name to be Jean Paul Valley, did any of you read Knightfall? Jean Paul Valley is a lunatic who didn't understand Batman's morals and became totally aggressive and crazy, is that really who you want to succeed Bruce in the Nolan series? And people are way overthinking the Robin thing, his name was Robin so everyone watching would understand who he was, it was just a fan service and wasn't meant to be over-analyzed. The idea is that no matter what his name is, he's going to replace Bruce.

#28 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

It was just a nod

#29 Posted by Apocalyptic_P (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Having his name actually be Robin is way off character for Nolan and his universe that he created for Batman.. Would Bruce's real name ever be "Batman", or they didn't even call Selina Kyle "Catwoman" in the movie because of it being to comic booky for people. So having a characters real name end up being his superhero's name is just dumb.

#30 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought it was a good nod to the Robin characters he was based off of. If they're not going to have him be "Robin", this was a nice compromise. However, the lady who delivered the line made it seem way awkward. The acting coulda been better for that part.

#31 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise: Your avatar. Clockwork Orange guy, Joker, and who else?

#32 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@KnightRise: Your avatar. Clockwork Orange guy, Joker, and who else?

Tyler Durden; played by Brad (Edward) Pitt (Norton) in Fight Club.

#33 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Apocalyptic_P said:

I think it was stupid of him to have the name robin...It would have been way better if he said Tim Drake because only the batman fans would have got it right away, then everyone else would go home and google it and find out who tim drake is and probably be even more surprised cause they used there own detective skills (like batman) to figure it out. haha

actually it makes sense in many ways

-It was a cool idea..the amalgamation of movies

-naming him grayson, todd or drake would have given it away

-almost everyone in the theater recognized the name Robin, most non comic readers would not get the "nod" if he was given a name like dick, tim or jason, and i don't most people don't google little details after coming home from the movies..

#34 Posted by Apocalyptic_P (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Being a "cool idea" is your own opinion

have his name be john blake up until the end and then have it be Tim Drake or Dick Grayson, not Robin

And yes alot of people go home after a movie and do research about it, (looking for reviews , seeing what other people thought about it) and that part wasn't a little detail it was the person who is supposedly going to be the new batman/symbol.

#35 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Apocalyptic_P said:

Being a "cool idea" is your own opinion

have his name be john blake up until the end and then have it be Tim Drake or Dick Grayson, not Robin

And yes alot of people go home after a movie and do research about it, (looking for reviews , seeing what other people thought about it) and that part wasn't a little detail it was the person who is supposedly going to be the new batman/symbol.

and a forum is for posting opinions.... and seriously the name "robin" in the ending was just a nod, Nolan wasn't planning to make a movie out of it.... he could have just been john blake till the end and it would have made little difference.... i'll agree with u when there's another movie featuring john blake as batman..

#36 Posted by Apocalyptic_P (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes these are our opinions which in the end really don't matter for anything. You say calling him robin was a nod the question is to who? Most "nods" are put in movies for people who understand the source material from which the movie or media was based from. So calling him robin was not for the comic book fans but the general audience who don't know who Tim drake or dick Grayson is. So this nod was really a cheap way of letting the audience know about the character of robin and not for the comic book fans.

#37 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@fodigg said:

@KnightRise: Your avatar. Clockwork Orange guy, Joker, and who else?

Tyler Durden; played by Brad (Edward) Pitt (Norton) in Fight Club.

Ahh, I see that now. That is indeed appropriate.

#38 Edited by Reignmaker (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

The Robin mention was obviously meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I was ok with it.

I thought it was more stupid that Gordon was able to connect the "putting a coat on a shoulder" comment all in the space of 2 seconds. I mean, that was supposed to have happened 30 years previously and Gordon automatically knew what Batman was referring to? How many coats does one offer in a job like that...in Gotham City of all places?

"Bruce Wayne?!" *gasp*

<me rolling my eyes>

A very un-Nolan-like moment in my opinion. It felt so tacked on. I would have been fine if Gordon never knew who Batman was.

#39 Posted by BlackPookie (607 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: well u might be right... thats really open to debate here...

#40 Posted by jack16ichigo (453 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to agree I thought it was stupid too,if they had just left it there being just a tiny hint he might maybe possible take up the cowl I could've lived with that its the fact that a couple minutes later we see him discover the batman cave making it very obvious that he might become the new batman,so it would've been better if he used the name point as a subtle hint to all the comics fans by using a Robins actually name (preferable Dick Grayson) because everyone else in the audience would've figured it out two minutes later when he finds the bat cave.I just think it would've been better this way having a little nod for the real fans first since everyone would've figured it out after anyway....

#41 Posted by AweSam (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackPookie said:

@AweSam: well u might be right... thats really open to debate here...

Not quite, it was pretty much the whole message of the movies.

#42 Posted by BlackPookie (607 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: but you were right

#43 Posted by Band Lone (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Blame Christian Bale he said he didnt want Robin so Nolan had to make his own version. He is not Tim, Todd Or Grayson (In my opinion) he is simply all 3 combined.

Dick Grayson's job (Police)

Jason in the fact that he kills (Shot a lot of people)

And Tim in his way of finding out who Bats was. (The eyes or whatever)

But definitively more Dick Grayson imo

#44 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

John Blake was a mix of all the freacking Robins.

That why he isnt called Dick, Jason or Tim.

You doul see he act like the 3 all the frecking movie.

#45 Posted by notselinakyle (5 posts) - - Show Bio

They should've stuck with the original names, Tim Drake, etc. And maybe also added in that Robin part for the noobs, or not.. I mean it's not like true Batman fans don't see these films -_- Jheeze Mr Nolan.

#46 Posted by Frill_Artist (31 posts) - - Show Bio

@LiquidPrince: It was stupid to be honest. Not to mention how he knew Bruce was Batman with his "orphan sense". 'Hey, I'm an orphan too and when I looked into your eyes, I knew you were Batman'. Uhhhh...what?

It would have been much more subtle and stylistic for them to show like his badge or records or something and reveal his last name to be Grayson or just in a more subtle way.

#47 Posted by 47Taskmaster47 (406 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was stupid that is name was Robin.

#48 Edited by BiteMe-Fanboy (7494 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole 'I'm going to call you John Blake the whole movie but then reveal that John is your MIDDLE name and Robin is first' is stupid. The whole point of it is for people to go 'huh, his name is Robin.. ooooo he must be Nolans equivalent to Robin' and for people to make retarded photoshop images of John Blake as Nightwing or Batman.. It's an horrible idea and I don't understand why any fan of Dick would want Blake as Nightwing. He should have made his name Richard or Dick. Not the super hero name of Batmans sidekick. That's retarded.

#49 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

I felt it was just a way to let people who aren't huge nerds know what was going to happen with him. If they'd called him Dick Grayson or something, people wouldn't have gotten the reference.

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