"a hero is only as good as his villian"

#1 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

"a hero is only as good as his villian" but batman makes the joker look way too good (villain wise)

how do you think joker would fair in the marvel universe or with any other characters willing to kill?. i don't think anything would stop wolverine, deadpool, or even wonder woman from killing the joker.

#2 Posted by Avenger85 (2017 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel123:

"a hero is only as good as his villian"

I disagree. A hero is only as good as his own values. Regarding Batman, he will no longer be Batman when he kills. Regardless of who he kills. Superman has fought dozens of villains, some of them willing to slaughter entire planets. But Clark remains the same person.

Joker, on the other hand, is just Genius enough to cause major harm to anyone in both Marvel & DC universe. The ones who kill will kill him, the ones who don't will not. He even made Superman snap in Injustice ( although that is an alternate dimension).

#3 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

ohh sorry about that, i was't refering to morals or values

"a hero is only as good as his villian" = the bigger the threat, the bigger the hero ....plot

so if the villains in the story play the roles well, then the hero has more to overcome (making him/her a better hero)........essentially they compliment each other

Batman and the joker are great together, we see the constant archetypal battle between good and evil in their comics.......and you're right the only thing keeping him alive is the fact that batman will never kill him.

i was thinking about Injustice as well..............after all that conspired , it was pretty easy to get rid of the joker....it seems like the joker does evil things with the mentality that no one will ever kill him......... genius as he is i don't think he expected america's boyscout to give him a hand through the chest........Now i know batman won't kill the joker, but what is stoping anyone else from doing it, like even the police force or some navy seals.....for goodness sake the joker is just a man, it's not like he's darksied and everyones practically defenseless to him. thats why i think batman is making him look like a greater villain than he actually is. thanks for commenting man, these are just my random thoughts

#4 Posted by Jack Donaghy (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker would take a bullet to the head from The Punisher if he was in the Marvel Universe.

#5 Posted by Bogey (970 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure Joker would change the way he does crime if he knew superhero's are out to kill him.

#6 Posted by UncleEmu (179 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker would still be the top villain. If he truly wanted to kill Batman, he is the only villain crazy, unpredictable, and smart enough to do it. He doesn't because he thinks Batman is just too much fun. He could easily kill any other hero (or villain) before they managed to kill him.

#7 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

exactly,

while the joker is batman's archnemesis, the ying to his yang, his greatest adversary

to characters like punisher, wolverine, flash, anyone with awesome superpowers (doesn't even have to be a hero), the joker is just the guy they beat on tuesday. as genius as people say he is, he's not going to dodge bullets or stop a superpowered being from punching through his chest.

#8 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

nope, thats BS reasoning to preserve villain and refrain from killing them

a hero is as good as their personality

#9 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

nope, thats BS reasoning to preserve villain and refrain from killing them

a hero is as good as their personality

Yep. This idea was introduced by Geoff Johns in his Flash series, purely to mock Batman. Seriously.

And the Joker would murder the living Hell out of the Punisher.

#10 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: You need a damien to kill joker

I say 'ruin' the character first so fans hate him, then uncle ben that f*cker

#11 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: You need a damien to kill joker

I say 'ruin' the character first so fans hate him, then uncle ben that f*cker

Nah. Just put him in Arkham for awhile. His problem is overuse. He pops up and murders 1000 people every two arcs now. That just annoys the reader.

#12 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: he's rustlin jimmies

and like batman, he monopolizes all (if not most) of the good writers on DC

#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: That's just not true. If DC has bad writers, they should be hiring new and better ones.

Not too mention that Batman is suffering from poor writers as well, at the moment. Morrison is the only good one Bruce has.

#14 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: I thought snyder is good

but then again DC = Detective Comics

so there might be bias from the get go

#15 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker doesn't need to die in the DCU, no point to killing a character who's gimmick is that he comes back from almost any situation that should kill him. Writers will want to use him because he is a great villain.

@Rumble Man said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: You need a damien to kill joker

I say 'ruin' the character first so fans hate him, then uncle ben that f*cker

Why would you ask for DC to ruin a character? Especially Damian, did you read that B&R annual? He's awesome!

#16 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: Not damian (love that dude) but Joker

not kill 'per se' but 'devalue'

#17 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Having Damian kill Joker would ruin the character's development.

As for devaluing Joker, nah, he's the Batman villain for a reason I agree that they should not use him too often and maybe pull back the scale of his attacks, but they shouldn't toss him aside.

#18 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Nah, Snyder is only good if you've never read Batman before.

The bias comes from the fact that, unfortunately, Batman is basically the only DC title that sells well. Which people, also unfortunately, blame Batman for. Batman selling worse won't make Booster Gold sell any better, regardless of the writer. Look at Geoff Johns, he's shoved his favourite characters down people's throats for years, but that doesn't mean the series will last.

#19 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: Its as if DC is pointing him out to be batman's 'only villain'

@FadeToBlackBolt: I did like Johns' lanterns, but he's only good for that

#20 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: That is just Snyder and only really right now.

#21 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: damn that mofo, other bat- villains get no love

#22 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: I worry how he'd handle of Riddler story.

Anyway, most of the Bat villains recently have been new guys so that's the real reason the Bat villains seem kind of in the background right now.

#23 Edited by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

and

"a hero is only as good as his villian" = the bigger the threat, the bigger the hero ....plot

so if the villains in the story play the roles well, then the hero has more to overcome (making him/her a better hero)........essentially they compliment each other . strong hero, strong villain= they both look good as characters. sorry about the confusion

i know this was a fanvote but as genius as the joker is, he is still flesh and bones like you and I.............being batmans archnemesis is quite a feat, but are we giving him too much credit.

in a battle between the joker and batman (or any other ordinary human), sure the joker is going to be a challenge

for anyone else who has reasonably good superpowers or even a suit of armor.........i see the joker doing more damage to himself more than any thing...........he's a good villain, but some people treat him as if he's almost unbeatable and indestructable like darksied.

#24 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel123: A hero is only as good as their performance and how they improve/stabilize the situation

#25 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah that works as well.... i first heard this concept in a mythology class, while looking at some of the archetypal characters in stories and taking into consideration the balance b/t good and evil. batman and the joker are great together, ying and yang.....sometimes it seems like without batman, the joker wouldn't have any fun and without the joker batman would have alot less to worry about.

i like the joker as a villain, i know he's a genius, but i also know that he's human and that he has limits. just my opinion but i don't think he'd be a threat (in battle) to many super powered beings......being batman's primary villain makes him look good and extremely hard to beat.

#26 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel123:

hero |ˈhi(ə)rō|

noun ( pl. heroes )

a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities: a war hero.

• the chief male character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.

• (in mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities and often semidivine origin, in particular one of those whose exploits and dealings with the gods were the subject of ancient Greek myths and legends.

• (also hero sandwich ) another term for submarine sandwich.

---

I loved the last one the best

#27 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: ha thanks, now i 'm in the mood for a sub,.............i guess some people haven't heard that quote before (check it out if you're bored). it just reminded me of how batman and the joker compliment each other as characters. ........but seriously, t as genius as the joker is, he is still flesh and bones like you and I.............being batmans archnemesis is quite a feat, but are we giving him too much credit ?......would he be as big of a challenge if his hero counterpart/ archnemesis was wolverine, or WW, or deadpool, ect.?

#28 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: I did like Johns' lanterns, but he's only good for that

Haven't been reading Aquaman I take it.

#29 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15: you mean the badass blondie with the big ass fork?

#30 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Correct.

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