Batman and Robin #19

Posted by G-Man (30625 posts) - - Show Bio

The Good

In a continuation after last issue, we're still seeing Batman deal with the death of Robin. As the title suggests, we are seeing him in the different stages of grief. He's not out beating the crap out of everyone in sight. Peter Tomasi gives a bunch of little subtle signs showing just how Bruce is dealing with his loss as the story progreses.

As this happens, we get the New 52 introduction of Carrie Kelley. Her reason for being here may not be as obvious as it seems but it does play a part in Bruce's handling of the situation.

Tomasi takes the story in an interesting direction. It's a bit of a risk in seeing the full extent of what Batman is willing to do next. This results in a confrontation with Frankenstein, a character you wouldn't expect to see here. The handling of Alfred is almost enough to make you wish the title is changed to BATMAN AND ALFRED.

Patrick Gleason continues to put his mark on all the characters that appears. Carrie Kelley seems like an odd choice to have in the comic but Gleason makes it work. His depiction of Bruce's scowl also speaks volumes. Then again, if you read last month's silent issue, this should not be a surprise.

The Bad

Batman's plan and the involvement of Frankenstein feels a bit odd. I'm not sure what the status of Lazarus Pits are in the New 52 Universe but that seems like it would've been a more logical decision. We are seeing Batman make do some things deeply out of character. It can be attributed that it's a result of his loss but we've never seen him make this sort of decision before.

With Red Robin being part of the title, it would have been nice to see him have a bigger role in the issue. You could almost say Carrie Kelley put in more of an appearance. Also, maybe I missed it but I was unaware that Tim had a "Titans jet" available.

It's a little unclear why Carrie Kelley was specifically chosen to appear in this issue. It does open the door to seeing more of her character in the future but the sudden appearance feels like it was a last minute decision.

The Verdict

Peter Tomasi continues the portrayal of Batman dealing with the greatest loss. We've seen Batman deal with loss before so it's great to see Tomasi actually putting him through the different stages. He also makes a bold move in having Batman take some extreme actions in trying to cope with it all. It's a little unsettling but that could be the point in seeing just how far he's willing to go. Patrick Gleason's art is top notch as usual. He manages to capture the mood and atmosphere of the characters in just the right fashion. Carrie Kelley is an interesting choice. Hopefully we'll see more development with her rather than this just be a stunt. More Red Robin would have been nice considering he is part of the title of this issue this month. The status of the Dynamic Duo may be up in the air but Tomasi and Gleason continue to prove the are a Dynamic Duo when it comes to comics.

Staff
#1 Edited by tjx_penn (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Why carrie kelly? Why not Terry McGinnis?

#2 Posted by dondave (34339 posts) - - Show Bio

A Good Issue

#3 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio

Well was Jason Todd resurrected in the Lazarus pit? I think it said in one of the first issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. Maybe Batman doesn't want to bring him back with other things attached. Last time I checked, no one returned from the pit without some sort of rage and whatever. Or maybe the Al Ghul family is watching over the only Lazarus pits.

#4 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

@tjx_penn said:

Why carrie kelly? Why not Terry McGinnis?

I think it would be awesome if Terry McGinnis was brought into canon but you have to think. Carrie Kelley was a Robin for that short period. Terry was Batman, he was never Robin and I wouldn't like if they made him a Robin. You can't have Batman and Batman.

#5 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Only want Damian, all attempts at a replacement will be ignored, with extremity.

#6 Edited by Tesseract (872 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like how Batman is portrayed here. As said this was deeply out of character for him, even if he did lose his son. And as for another Robin replacing Damian I just think it's too early for a new character to be introduced and that it is a better idea for Red Robin to fill in, if there is such a big need for a replacement.

#7 Posted by BR_Havoc (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@doordoor123: Also in issue nine of Batman Inc they mention the Lazarus pits. I believe in that issue they said all but one is out of commission. So leaves one out there for Damian I suppose.

#8 Edited by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@tjx_penn: Batman beyond is already in a book, you should pick it up it's good and kyle higgins is taking over soon. I would really like to see Batman and... Superboy!!!

#9 Edited by TheRobin (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Why does it have to be her >.<

#10 Posted by JamDamage (1108 posts) - - Show Bio

going from a 10 year old to a girl is just stupid. I don't like it. Nope.

#11 Posted by Redbird36 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one that thought Carrie's blonde roomate at the end was Steph Brown? Her clothes are similar to pre52 solo series Steph...

#12 Posted by kennybaese (1095 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamdamage said:

going from a 10 year old to a girl is just stupid. I don't like it. Nope.

In what way is a female Robin more stupid than a ten year old?

Regarding Frankenstein's involvement: Didn't they address the Lazarus Pits in Batman Inc. somewhere? I know that Morrison said that it was going to get addressed at some point.

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#13 Posted by detective38 (172 posts) - - Show Bio

Going from one of the most emotionally powerful issues I've read in a long time last issue to this extremely strange take on all characters involved was very disappointing. Whoever's stupid idea it was to introduce carrie kelley into new 52 continuity need to be hit hard in the head with a metal ball fired from a sling shot. If I cared about idiotic characters like frankenstein I would be reading his series, but please leave him out of my bat-universe ok DC? 3/5 stars

#14 Posted by ThreadPool (98 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's an idea: Please permanently make the title 'Batman and Red Robin' so maybe we can get Tim faaaaar away from anything 'Teen Titans'. I miss pre-New52 Tim Drake!

#15 Posted by G-Man (30625 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird36: I was totally hoping that was the case. I made sure not to glimpse at the rest of the page in the hopes it would turn up. It'd mess up the previous history but you could say it'd be better than nothing.

Staff
#16 Edited by Jacobin_Wisdom (89 posts) - - Show Bio

Reading this edition of Batman and Robin, an wondrous idea occurred.

After his mourning period, (which should occur after the Zero Year arc.) During this time he'll be occasionally encountering Red Hood, Nightwing, and Red Robin which results in flashbacks of him working with them on past cases.

After his mourning period he'll come to a conclusion that he needs a Robin, but will only pick on whom is deemed to be best suited. He designs series of tests, and works with those he chosen to be potential Robins.

Carrie Kelley, Terry McGinnis (obviously after being introduced in the New 52), Harper Row, Stephanie Brown, John Blake (From TDKR film and to be introduced in the New 52), Cassandra Cain (who has yet to be introduced in the New 52) and possible a few new characters.

Batman teams up with them all, give them "grades" with his harsh feedback. The old Robins as mentors to give advice, and to provide Batman with a report card on whom they deemed would best fill the role. Some of the characters will quit unable to handle being a sidekick, others are dismissed by Batman for various reasons until one remains as the new Robin.

Or they all fail, and the Batman and Robin book changes to Batman and Robins inwhich Batman teams up with the former robins, or aid their teams.

Just an idea...

#17 Edited by ThreadPool (98 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing here. Why do people keep suggesting McGinnis? Based on the timeline, shouldn't he be a baby, or more than likely not even born at this point?

#18 Posted by dreamfall31 (519 posts) - - Show Bio

Liked this issue quite a lot! I wonder if we'll get a new Robin after this series rotates through the Bat-Family members. I'd be okay with Carrie Kelly, but this issue makes it seem like she probably won't be.

I just read the first Volume of Frankenstein Agent of SHADE a few days back, and the panels with him in this issue show that his solo series could have great benefited from an artist like Gleason. Didn't care much for the book overall, but that series could have used a much better artist.

#19 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6093 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamdamage said:

going from a 10 year old to a girl is just stupid. I don't like it. Nope.

In what way is a female Robin more stupid than a ten year old?

Regarding Frankenstein's involvement: Didn't they address the Lazarus Pits in Batman Inc. somewhere? I know that Morrison said that it was going to get addressed at some point.

Especially seeing as there's already been one(or more, depends on how you look at it) female Robin(s) already.

#20 Posted by Jacobin_Wisdom (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@threadpool: The New 52 does not need to follow the show, or the comic (which is a continuation of the show) that McGinnis appears in. He can be the New 52 version who just appears in the present than future.

#21 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6093 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing here. Why do people keep suggesting McGinnis? Based on the timeline, shouldn't he be a baby, or more than likely not even born at this point?

I think the timeline has changed though. I've heard that Bruce Wayne is currently 31 in the comics, but in The Dark Knight Returns, I think he was supposed to be at least in his 50s. If that's the case then Carrie maybe shouldn't be the right age to exist either. I suppose it's possible that he could turn up sometime.

#22 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

My biggest disappointment with the issue was Carrie Kelly. I did not find her to be a particularly likable character. I mean, she assaulted some guy just because he hit on her? Overreact much? I've got some other objections on her as well. If she will become the new Robin, I will be a bit disappointed.

As for the rest, Red Robin and Frankenstein were a bit underutilized, and I do not like seeing Batman this dark and evil. The issue has some good points too, but it is not nearly as strong as Tomasi's last several issues.

Click Here for the BatWatch Review

Liked this issue quite a lot! I wonder if we'll get a new Robin after this series rotates through the Bat-Family members. I'd be okay with Carrie Kelly, but this issue makes it seem like she probably won't be.

I just read the first Volume of Frankenstein Agent of SHADE a few days back, and the panels with him in this issue show that his solo series could have great benefited from an artist like Gleason. Didn't care much for the book overall, but that series could have used a much better artist.

After reading this, I was thinking how cool would it be if the next several issues introduced a bunch of suspects for the role? What if the next issue had a guest appearance by Steph, Cass or Terry? Actually, adding that many major players into continuity all at once would probably be a bad move, but it would defintiely keep people on their toes. Who else? Robin One Million, the Toy Wonder? Yeah, maybe not.

@v_scarlotte_rose:

They keep saying the Lazarus Pits are all gone, but then they say "There's one left," every time the story demands it. I'm pretty sure "Batman and's" team up with Batgirl is going to focus on Lazarus Pits.

Also, the main disadvantage for a girl being Robin is the lack of testosterone, but a per-puberty boy is going to have the same problem, so objecting to a girl wonder is pretty ridiculous.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

#23 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6093 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch: What does testosterone have to do with it?

#24 Posted by fallbrigade (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@threadpool: I get the feeling it has mostly to do with how Carrie Kelly was just introduced to a young Bruce Wayne in the New 52 as oppose to an elderly Bruce from Miller's universe, so why not McGinnis as well? I'd much rather not see McGinnis make any sort of New 52 appearance unless it's some sort of flashforward to when he becomes Batman. I don't want to see him as a Robin.

I also really like the comment up above, about how Kelly's blonde girl friend might be Stephanie Brown. Could be an interesting way to introduce her to this continuity.

I personally enjoyed this issue. Interesting to see Batman just go completely off the rails to bring back his son. I rather liked it, and I thought Frankenstein was kinda cool.

#25 Edited by ThreadPool (98 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by The Stegman (23031 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys...I seriously doubt Carrie is going to be Robin, this seemed more like a small cameo to make fans of Dark Knight Returns happy, she was only dressed as Robin for a costume party.

Anyway, I LOVED this issue, five star to me, the Frankenstein cameo was awesome, and the look Batman gave Tim after he ruined his plans...scary as hell.

#27 Posted by Reignmaker (2227 posts) - - Show Bio

For fans of Tomasi's work on this book, I have question. Is Batman Inc. mandatory reading in order to enjoy this title? I think the last issue of B&R I picked up was the Death of the Family tie-in.

I guess I'm asking whether Damian's death is recapped at all within the pages of B&R or is it simply handled with a clumsy caption box that says "check out Batman Inc. #8"? I really have zero interest in trying to muddle through Morrison's story, though I probably will eventually.

#28 Edited by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked DOTF and Batman Inc, but I think they threw too much at us at once. I dunno, I just feel like everyone should have gotten over their anger when Damian died. And speaking of that, when are we gonna find out what the Joker said to them that got them all riled up?

#29 Posted by ccraft (5039 posts) - - Show Bio

Liked this issue quite a lot! I wonder if we'll get a new Robin after this series rotates through the Bat-Family members. I'd be okay with Carrie Kelly, but this issue makes it seem like she probably won't be.

I just read the first Volume of Frankenstein Agent of SHADE a few days back, and the panels with him in this issue show that his solo series could have great benefited from an artist like Gleason. Didn't care much for the book overall, but that series could have used a much better artist.

I think we will see CK threw out these Batman & issues until she confronts Bruce or Batman. You could tell that she won't stop until she finds out what happened to Damian.

Heck just after 1 issue I like her way more than Harper Row. I'm glad she made an appearance in the new 52, I was skeptical at first.

@g_man: Knowing that Flashpoint screwed up the timeline for the DCU, do you think we'll be seeing the mutants again?

#30 Edited by Master_Thief (697 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by Teenage_Fansub (6 posts) - - Show Bio

This issue was amazing. So much fun stuff was packed in.

#32 Edited by noj (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

@reignmaker: Reading Batman Inc certainly enhances my enjoyment of the book but its by no means necessary. All you really need to know is that he is dead. Its also "sorta" recapped in 18 which is an issue you should deinatley pick up since it was so awesome!

#33 Edited by ovidkid (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@kennyshat: yeah they did I think someone mentioned that it was to bad their was no Lazarus Pit to revive Knight

#34 Edited by Jawshco (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man: There have been so many origin stories in DC52 that have been changed, there is no reason that Stephanie Brown's character needs to stick to what we saw before. I would love to see her work her way into Tim's life and help bring the best pre-52 DC character (in my opinion) back to his original quality. Right now, I cannot stand Tim Drake/Red Robin. The dude is insufferable. Usually, I'd shrug that off, but as an original reader of his run on "Robin," from beginning to end, they've ruined my favorite character. If bringing in Steph could change that, they can make her the daughter of Riddler for all I care.

#35 Edited by feedonatreefrog (195 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I loved this issue.

Bruce gets to some dark places.

That final page between Tim and Bruce. HOLY TENSE!

I hope Tim's actions are referenced a lot in future issues.

#36 Posted by TeamUnitedNerds (402 posts) - - Show Bio

Frankenstein and Carrie Kelly? This is beautiful

#37 Posted by CrazyScarecrow (1193 posts) - - Show Bio

@tjx_penn: Because the Batcave was becoming more of a sausage fest.

#38 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

going from a 10 year old to a girl is just stupid. I don't like it. Nope.

Lol this sounds so wrong

I cant stop laughing

#39 Edited by dreamfall31 (519 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a feeling the Carrie Kelly part was mostly to please DC when they had the stupid idea that was the "WTF Certified" month. It was still a cool part of the issue!

Does it ever state what Damian was seeing her for?

#40 Edited by Shipster360 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@dreamfall31 said:

Does it ever state what Damian was seeing her for?

this. i was incredibly confused. i almost felt stupid reading it because it seemed like it was stated but i just could not figure it out

#41 Posted by soumya (134 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacobin_wisdom: Like you said....it's pretty unclear what holds in the future of this book.In a strange way Morrison ruined this title.

#42 Posted by Faceman (7 posts) - - Show Bio

B & R has been the best of the bat books since Damian's death. Most, including Snyder's usually great Batman, seem to be moving on to other things already (I mean, Clayface? C'mon). Tomasi has at least made an effort to show how badly it's tearing Bruce apart (not badly enough to stop running around dressed up like a bat, but at least he's dwelling on it a bit instead of just moving on). I also loved the dialogue between Alfred and Bruce, though I'm not sure how Alfred is still around since Bruce essentially blamed him for Damian's death and told him to take a hike in the last issue of Batman Inc. Continuity?

The battle and interaction between Bruce and Tim was great. The art, as always with this series, is amazing. Quickly becoming one of my most indispensable titles. Such a waste to kill off Damian. Bruce and Damian as father and son was just so great and Tomasi has done an incredible job cultivating the dynamic between them.

Still trying to wait until Morrison finishes Batman Inc. before I squawk about Damian's death too much, but at this point it's really looking like they killed off a very compelling character for no good reason. I mean, the adolescent son of Bruce Wayne and Talia Al'Ghul? That's gold.

It really cuts the legs out from under this whole title. "The New 52's Batman & Robin without Robin!" If Bruce doesn't take another Robin (WHICH HE OBVIOUSLY SHOULDN'T), the title makes no sense. If Bruce takes in another Robin he starts to look like a bit of a nut (even more than he normally does). *Bruce sits brooding in the Batcave. "I'm ready." he whispers to himself. Bruce reaches above his head and pulls a lever shaped like an R. The faint sound of a child screaming draws closer and closer until finally an 11 year old orphan comes tumbling down a slide into the Batcave. Bruce whips a red, yellow and green outfit at the boy, "Put that on!" he growls "We're on patrol tonight!" "Where the hell am I? Who are you? Why are you doing this?" stammers the child. "I'M THE GODDAM BATMAN! I'M SAVING YOU FROM THE STREETS! I'M THE GOOD GUY AND NOT INSANE!"*

#43 Edited by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't like this issue. The Frank thing really ruined it for me.

#44 Edited by drewscruff (16 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by Dalekchris9191 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Tomasi has said that he's introducing Carrie as part of a longer arc, so hopefully a specific reason for it being Carrie and not just a new character should be explained. Apart from that, I loved this issue! I think Bruce absolutely would be desperate enough to rip apart Frankenstein to bring back Damian. Think about it, it's his son. Super-special circumstances, particularly when Frankenstein clearly feels no pain and can be simply sowed back together.

Carrie should have had the green glasses though... Dunno why she didn't... Almost not Carrie without them, but she still has the other good stuff about the character. She's still alway freaking moving, she's still about a quarter the size of Batman, and she still seems to have a similar personality. The college age is throwing me off though. Original was 13 or so (not really specified, but she was definitely a minor).

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