Why is everyone hating on Barry?

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#1 Posted by Sky_Jokiel (304 posts) - - Show Bio

Almost everyone I talk to is upset that Wally is not the flash and that Barry came back and is stealing the spotlight. In all honesty though I'm loving flashpoint and I think that The Flash Rebirth and the 2010 series of The Flash with Barry contained some terrific stories. I think Geoff Johns is doing a terrific job writing him and I'm not upset Wally is gone. I know most people that are big on comics right now grew up with Wally as The Flash but it's time for him to step back. Wally has a family now with two kids and in the superhero world a family means that your dead locked with your stories. The only way I think they could bring Wally back is if they get rid of his whole family and I DC writers are to nice to do that. Barry is The Flash right now and I think everyone needs to accept that enjoy the stories. Change is never liked but often turns out good. Just my thoughts.

#2 Posted by Vance Astro (91260 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West is the only Flash that matters.

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#3 Posted by Icarusflies (12503 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing about the stories with Barry is that they just happened to be stories with Barry Allen. Barry played almost no role, he was just THERE.

Wally would really be PART of the story, he had personality.

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#4 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio

Playas be hate'n 
Barry hasnt been very interesting since hes returned. Actually kind of emotionless. I havent read too much with Barry before hes returned, but he just seems boring. People like myself have come to like Wally. Just because Barry is back doesnt mean Wally should be taken out of the spotlight. I think people hate Barry more because hes taken that spotlight away from Wally. 
WALLY 4 LYFE! <3

#5 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

  The reason people are so angry that Barry is back because Barry died in Crisis on Infinite Earths 8, and when he died, he died for a reason, and his death had meaning.  His death helped saved the universe, and it was a valiant sacrifice.  It's been 20 years since he died, and most fans came to terms with it.  After his death Wally took over, and he completely surpassed Barry in everything, but now you have Geoffcon bringing him back to life, and then replacing a well developed character for no reason.  It doesn't help that Geoffcon is a hypocrite and that he goes retconning every possible thing he doesn't like.

#6 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Before Barry came back wasn't Bart the Flash? Bringing Wally and Barry back is the best thing they could do. That way they have the best of all three possibilities. Wally still has his family and is still active as the Flash he just doesn't have a book, Barry gets to be the Flash who doesn't have to worry about as much family commitments, and Bart gets to be Kid Flash again.

#7 Posted by Degalon (737 posts) - - Show Bio

a)  Barry's death was a big thing in the comics.  He was DC's Uncle Ben.  He was dead for a reason, and he STAYED dead.
 
B)  Wally (And in turn, Zoom) Just have way more personality than Barry (And Professor Zoom).  Barry is just too one-dimensional and bland.  And as an above poster said, Wally was more ingrained into the story.  Barry is just...there.  He serves no real purpose other than "oh hey, its the flash".  Not to mention the fact that Wally was a more talented (Not to mention faster) Flash.
 
c)  My main gripe is that wally being replaced with barry also means Zoom being replaced with Barry's Reverse-Flash, who is equally boring and one-dimensional.
 
Aka, the overall gripe about barry is that he's just so BLAND in comparison to wally.

#8 Posted by Brit (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
Wally West is the only Flash that matters.
true that!!
#9 Posted by MydLyfeCrysis (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a big fan of Wally, Barry, and even Jay. I think where frustration comes from is it feels like we just barely got Wally back, and now he's out again. So, what's gonna happen to him?

#10 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
Wally West is the only Flash that matters.
 
And Barry is really boring. he has no personality. His 2010 series sucked. I was literally nearly bored to death. 
#11 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West was already the Flash when I started reading comics. "Barry Allen" is just backstory as far as I'm concerned.

#12 Posted by Wattup (648 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry Allen sucks goats. Wally West was The Flash for a LONG time and he never got to be the focal point of a MAJOR comics event but Barry does? Piss off, Geoff Johns...
 
I feel the same about Hal Jordan.

#13 Posted by Jake Fury (18738 posts) - - Show Bio
@mark5 said:
@Vance Astro said:
Wally West is the only Flash that matters.
 And Barry is really boring. he has no personality. His 2010 series sucked. I was literally nearly bored to death. 

Just curious, did you read the entire story before you realized he was boring? Or was there something else that made you want to continue reading it?
#14 Posted by ComicMan24 (147093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
  The reason people are so angry that Barry is back because Barry died in Crisis on Infinite Earths 8, and when he died, he died for a reason, and his death had meaning.  His death helped saved the universe, and it was a valiant sacrifice.  It's been 20 years since he died, and most fans came to terms with it.  After his death Wally took over, and he completely surpassed Barry in everything, but now you have Geoffcon bringing him back to life, and then replacing a well developed character for no reason.  It doesn't help that Geoffcon is a hypocrite and that he goes retconning every possible thing he doesn't like.
Pretty much this.
#15 Posted by DEGRAAF (7886 posts) - - Show Bio
@Degalon said:
a)  Barry's death was a big thing in the comics.  He was DC's Uncle Ben.  He was dead for a reason, and he STAYED dead.  
  
B)  Wally (And in turn, Zoom) Just have way more personality than Barry (And Professor Zoom).  Barry is just too one-dimensional and bland.  And as an above poster said, Wally was more ingrained into the story.  Barry is just...there.  He serves no real purpose other than "oh hey, its the flash".  Not to mention the fact that Wally was a more talented (Not to mention faster) Flash.   
 
c)  My main gripe is that wally being replaced with barry also means Zoom being replaced with Barry's Reverse-Flash, who is equally boring and one-dimensional.


I agree with you i just have some questions. 
 
I was always curious about that. so Zoom and Professor Zoom are different people?
 
 
Barry had a good death and a good reason for him dying he should have stayed that way. Also they didnt even give a good reason for Wally to disappear. They just flat out stopped using him. Then after tehy stop using him they change it to no one being faster than Barry when for over a decade or more Wally has been the fastest
#16 Posted by Jake Fury (18738 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Morrison bring Barry back?
#17 Edited by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Haters gonna hate. Barry is awesome and Wally is awesome too. Idk what the fuss is with everyone, personally.  
 
@Jake Fury: Yes, Morrison brought Barry back. 

#18 Posted by DEGRAAF (7886 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024 said:
Haters gonna hate. Barry is awesome and Wally is awesome too. Idk what the fuss is with everyone, personally.  
 
@Jake Fury: Yes, Morrison brought Barry back. 

my only fuss is that they didnt give Wally a good reason for leaving and they never use him any more. He was one of the core JLA and they just dropped him like a sack of sh%#
#19 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF: That would be the only thing I would understand about the hate, but it's not like that's Barry's fault. Blame Geoff about Wally's sudden absence. Also, it's not like this really matters once the reboot/revamp happens. I'm sure Wally will be the star of that Speedforce thingamajig. 
#20 Posted by DEGRAAF (7886 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024
agreed about it being Geoff's fault but i stopped reading Flash because he put Barry in it. I tried i just dont like him. He is just to dry and boring for me. I liked Wally's humor. if that even happens. So far we know Barry is in the JL and in the solo Flash
#21 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
I only started getting into Flash really during Rebirth so all I've really known is Barry. 
Had no clue Wallys series was that good. Might give it a look when i go to the shop later today.
#22 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

And while we're talking about how cool Wally is, anyone know any good issues/trades I could pick up with him in it?

#23 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason why I hate the fact that Wally is now having the backseat is because they tried to replicate the formula of bringing back Hal Jordan but missed all of the reasons why it was successful. 
 
The five years run that Johns has written, which elevated Green Lantern into one of DC's biggest properties couldn't have been told with Kyle, Guy or John. Sinestro, Green Lantern corps, Carol, etc. all were too connected to Hal to not include him. At the same time Kyle who for an entire generation was THE green lantern has relatively stayed in the spotlight ever since Hal came back. 
 
I seriously can't see how any of the stories after Barry's return couldn't have been just as easily written with Wally instead of Barry and yes, that includes Flashpoint.  
 
oh and btw... 
 Does the OP really want to pass Barry replacing Wally as progress?

#24 Posted by daredevil21134 (11898 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry Allen is the real Flash and thats whats up.So Barry Haters deal with it

#25 Posted by Mainline (1129 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sky_Jokiel said:
 Barry is The Flash right now and I think everyone needs to accept that enjoy the stories. Change is never liked but often turns out good. Just my thoughts.
I think a lot of Flash fans were at least open-minded to the potential of Barry, but the actual execution has left long-time fans bitter.  Johns had a great run on The Flash, starring Wally, that ended in 2005... Johns literally rode the success of that run to the top of DC (going from a young writer of two titles to DC's Chief Creative Officer).  The way Johns ended the story was epic... but it also gave future writers nowhere to go since Wally beat all the Rogues at once.  It's like having Batman kill Joker as your run finale and expecting the next writer to top that.  Obviously the writers couldn't and Wally was hit with weak filler arcs until Johns could exile him in the wake of his Infinite Crisis event. 
 
For the next five years the Flash franchise floundered.  Bart was made Flash and killed.  Johns brought Wally back outside of the Flash book and aged the children unnaturally in Lightning Saga, which put the next writer, Mark Waid in an awkward position, particularly since he had professional ambitions elsewhere, leaving to run BOOM Studios.  Again, having made Wally beat everyone at once, the only way Waid could think of an even greater threat was to have Wally defeat an entire alien invasion... but that was too weird for Flash's semi-street-level roots.  Fans didn't like it, Waid left, and a title that had only 5 fill-in issues for 20+ years suddenly was seeing nothing but filler and constant creative team changes and massive delays. 
 
The execution of Barry's return was random and unspectacular.  He appeared in a confusing Crisis for reasons unspecified then disappeared for months.  The one book he could be found in- Rebirth- was painfully slow and short on characterization... a six issue mini-series took about 10 months to come out, and the proper series didn't launch until months after that.  So whereas before, Wally was in a regular monthly book and appearing in the JLA and integral to events and constantly touching base with his supporting characters and speedsters like Bart, Jesse, and Jay... now there was only a trickle of The Flash. After DC axed Wally the first time, the quantity and quality of stories went down so the change- for half a decade- was not "good".  It was only in the last few months that The Flash actually stopped seeing routine delays... but a book that had been about a Family and Mythos, now felt terribly claustrophobic... Barry never interacted with anyone, wasn't on the JLA, didn't pop-in on Jay or Bart or Wally or Jesse, etc. (they might come to his book once in a while, but Barry never really ventured out except in the Cry For Justice debacle). 
 
So a lot of the issue is with the opportunity lost. 
 
It doesn't mean that Barry doesn't have potential or couldn't be written well, but it does mean that he hasn't been written well-enough or on-time to justify what was lost in having a regular monthly book with widespread DCU ties, good characterization, an established supporting cast, etc. 
 
As for the roadblocks... yeah, a family can be an issue or trying to follow Johns' story-breaking finale... but we're talking five years of storytelling missed out on.  That's 60 issues of storytelling at a regular monthly pace (not to mention annuals, specials, events, etc).  If Johns can go from a two book writer to CCO in five years, imagine where a fictional character could be taken in 60 issues!  You could have organically repositioned Wally any way you would like in that time without a doubt. 
 
I'm not saying you're not entitled to enjoy Rebirth and the 12 issues of Barry's run that's getting cancelled to be relaunched yet again... but I'm saying I'd rather have 60 issues of The Flash over that any day.  Even if HALF of them were terrible, we'd still have more good Flash stories that way then by relaunching with Barry.
#26 Posted by joshmightbe (24897 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry had a truly Iconic and heroic death that John's ruined due to his fetish for the silver age and besides that IMO Wally is a better character 

#27 Posted by daredevil21134 (11898 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry Allen Forever!!!

#28 Posted by The_Tree (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wally lovers are upset that Barry took his spotlight.
I love Barry waaaay more than Wally, but I think Wally should still be around, he's kind of been in limbo ever since Flash: Rebirth. What ever happened to that Speedforce comic idea that was being thrown around?
BTW, BARRY 4EVER!

#29 Posted by joshmightbe (24897 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Tree: Barry had his chance to shine and he'd still be dead if it weren't for John's silver age fetish 
#30 Edited by The_Tree (7519 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:

@The_Tree: Barry had his chance to shine and he'd still be dead if it weren't for John's silver age fetish 

I know how much Johns loves the silver age, and I'm glad he brought Barry back. 
I like Wally, but I like Barry more. And I love the silver age, so it's great to see Barry.
Wally's had his chance to shine too, but the spotlight is now Barry's.
#31 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry doesn't even want to be back, he's back because his nemesis wanted to torture him and he's not over. That's kind of an interesting story. Wally is spending time with his family, that's why he's not around much though I'm thinking he'll have a place post relaunch. And nowhere that I've read have they said that Barry is faster than Wally, in fact Barry admits that Wally has done much more interesting things with the Speed Force, Barry just generates it.

#32 Posted by joshmightbe (24897 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Tree: I think if anything it should have been Bart stepping up to take Wally's place hopefully more well thought out this time but it would have been much more in keeping with the spirit of the Flash 
#33 Posted by The_Tree (7519 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
@The_Tree: I think if anything it should have been Bart stepping up to take Wally's place hopefully more well thought out this time but it would have been much more in keeping with the spirit of the Flash 
I wouldn't want a young Flash, I'm happy with Bart's Kid Flash role.
#34 Posted by joshmightbe (24897 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Tree: Barry had one of the most iconic and heroic deaths in comics history and bringing him back made it pointless
#35 Posted by daredevil21134 (11898 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Tree said:
Because Wally lovers are upset that Barry took his spotlight. I love Barry waaaay more than Wally, but I think Wally should still be around, he's kind of been in limbo ever since Flash: Rebirth. What ever happened to that Speedforce comic idea that was being thrown around? BTW, BARRY 4EVER!
Exactly Right My Friend Barry Rules.But I wouldn't mind if they killed off Wally West
#36 Edited by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Every time I type the words Barry Allen 10 people jump on me with some pro Wally stuff. Yeah Wally is a good character but give it a rest no offense but it's really annoying make a Wally respect thread or something and stop patrolling barry's threads to jump on Barry fans

#37 Posted by longbowhunter (7127 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Wally. I like Barry. But I read Flash comics for the Rogues!!
#38 Posted by The Stegman (24627 posts) - - Show Bio

there's two reasons for the hate 
 
1. the most common reason, Wally fanboys are just pissed because he's getting the back burner 
 
2. Wally has had  A LOT of development in the time that Barry was "dead" and has truly stepped into the role of the Flash, he's not just an ex sidekick who decided to put on daddy's shows, he actually worked hard of it and was a valued member of the JLA for over a decade... 
 
however, that being said, i will admit that wally is a more interesting character, he's funnier, uses his powers more uniquely, and isn't as perfect (morally) as Barry, who like many silver age heroes, saw things in Black and white

#39 Posted by noj (1084 posts) - - Show Bio

Look heres the deal guys Wally was in a crap place story wise before Barry came back, and honestly Wallys Flash books ranged from crap to mediocre after Geoff Johns AWESOME run ended. His kids were annoying, and Wally was just floundering. Writers didnt know what to do with him. At the end of Geoffs run Wally West had hit his creative peak and it was all downhill from there. All you people whining about Barry's return and longing for the days of Wally really need to go back and read the last two or three years of his run as the main Flash. Barrys return really brought some more life into the series and you people hating on it have some serious blinders on. Geoffs run on the Flash was far and away the best thing to come out of the Flash since well Geoffs original run.

#40 Posted by Loki9876 (3051 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe you should all read the new 52 title and then judge. Give him atleast a chance after al the character is as facsinating as the writer lets him to be.

#41 Posted by Billy Batson (58062 posts) - - Show Bio

BECAUSE OF WALLY. 

BB

#42 Posted by gibson (49 posts) - - Show Bio

Because when you say "progress" it should be progress. Barry Allen was the Silver Age Flash. But from 1985 onward Wally West became the Modern Age Flash. So to place Barry back as the speedster, that is not progress, it is regression. The same is said for Green Lantern and the Kyle/Hal swap-out. 
 
Milking/mining the Silver Age for their nostalgia and 'man-out-of-time' is the mark of weak creativity. Sure it work in the short term. Boost sales, make an event, sell some books. But the stories are then formulaic. Pluck dusty old character (preferably dead), plop him into "modern" comic mythos. Reunite with old friends, hash out old arguments, flaunt old mastered powers, defeat enemy. 
 
Barry Allen's return and placement should have been akin to Jay Garrick's. He exists, fights crime as part of a team. But not ass the books main star. Wally and Kyle both got shafted because Geoff Johns loves Silver Age rebirth, and turning every damn villain into a tragic hero a la Magneto.

#43 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
Wally West is the only Flash that matters.
First answer hit it right on the head. 
#44 Edited by entropy_aegis (15335 posts) - - Show Bio
@Icarusflies said:

The thing about the stories with Barry is that they just happened to be stories with Barry Allen. Barry played almost no role, he was just THERE.

Wally would really be PART of the story, he had personality.

This,SO MUCH THIS.I would like Barry and Hal if Johns MADE them unique/likeable.All his stories can easily be told using Wally.
#45 Edited by beatboks1 (7249 posts) - - Show Bio
@doordoor123 said:

Playas be hate'n  Barry hasnt been very interesting since hes returned. Actually kind of emotionless. I havent read too much with Barry before hes returned, but he just seems boring. People like myself have come to like Wally. Just because Barry is back doesnt mean Wally should be taken out of the spotlight. I think people hate Barry more because hes taken that spotlight away from Wally.  WALLY 4 LYFE! <3

Trust me as some one who read plenty of Barry Pre COIE, he was equally BORING then. He was so boring that at one stage they had to come up with a story line where he killed someone and the Flsah went on trial. he gave up his secret identity, lived in the JLA satellite while facing court. BORING. He was then and is today a blown up flash uniform. Take away the suit and the powers and he persona non grada.
 
@PrinceIMC said:
Before Barry came back wasn't Bart the Flash? Bringing Wally and Barry back is the best thing they could do. That way they have the best of all three possibilities. Wally still has his family and is still active as the Flash he just doesn't have a book, Barry gets to be the Flash who doesn't have to worry about as much family commitments, and Bart gets to be Kid Flash again.

Considering (from what I've heard) in DCNu Barry isn't even dating (much less married to) Iris, Wally wont be a flash anytime soon. After all Wally was Iris's step nephew (Iris "West" Allen )and the only reason Wally was a Flash was because when visiting the Allens, Barry's connection to the speed force cause a duplicate accident to occur.
#46 Posted by monkeyonurback_ (84 posts) - - Show Bio

guys.. grant morrison brought barry back. he's the only problem here. and he's been a problem since he started in comics. just guarantee that every title he touches, will destroy a character you've come to love.

#47 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Grant Morrison is and awesome writer and you don't know what you're talking about. 
 
 
Also, even though Barry came back in Grant's book, the decision to bring him back almost certainly came from Dan DiDio and Geoff Johns. Morrison has not had any investment in Barry before or after his rebirth.

#48 Posted by Whisper_ (3464 posts) - - Show Bio
@monkeyonurback_ said:
guys.. grant morrison brought barry back. he's the only problem here. and he's been a problem since he started in comics. just guarantee that every title he touches, will destroy a character you've come to love.
I so disagree with this. Hate Barry, love Grant. They were gonna bring him back one way or another. It was editorial mandate. Grant just happened to be the one writing him. I'd rather have a good writer writing a character that I hate as opposed to a bad one. That way at least fans of the character get some enjoyment out of it instead of everybody losing out.  
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb just a little bit and assume that you're a Jason Todd fan and hate what Grant did with him? 
 
@AtPhantom said:
Grant Morrison is and awesome writer and you don't know what you're talking about.    Also, even though Barry came back in Grant's book, the decision to bring him back almost certainly came from Dan DiDio and Geoff Johns. Morrison has not had any investment in Barry before or after his rebirth.
Damn straight. 
#49 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sky_Jokiel said:
Almost everyone I talk to is upset that Wally is not the flash and that Barry came back and is stealing the spotlight. In all honesty though I'm loving flashpoint and I think that The Flash Rebirth and the 2010 series of The Flash with Barry contained some terrific stories. I think Geoff Johns is doing a terrific job writing him and I'm not upset Wally is gone. I know most people that are big on comics right now grew up with Wally as The Flash but it's time for him to step back. Wally has a family now with two kids and in the superhero world a family means that your dead locked with your stories. The only way I think they could bring Wally back is if they get rid of his whole family and I DC writers are to nice to do that. Barry is The Flash right now and I think everyone needs to accept that enjoy the stories. Change is never liked but often turns out good. Just my thoughts.
Funny how the "change" you are talking about is the UNDOING of a change done decades ago.  Sorry, sir, but your own argument commits you to wanting Wally West, or better still (by your criteria) a new flash, Toby Twitterson.
#50 Posted by War Killer (20249 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Wally, but I'm going to pick up The Flash #1 and see what I think of Barry and how that goes. People say they hate Barry currently because Geoff Johns writes him without a personality and like he was in the Silver Age, even though I actually like Johns' writing, the fact that he's not writing the new series makes me wonder if they may actually give Barry a personality that everyone says he lacks.

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