Is the return of Barry Allen a complete failure?

#1 Posted by lorex (940 posts) - - Show Bio

I was wondering has The Flash been better or worse since Barry returned from the dead. I grew up with Wally as the Flash and see him as a more complete character that has grown and adapted over the years and Barry since his return seems more wodden 
and reserved. Granted with Barry being dead he had nowhere to go. It just seemed to me that Barry's sacrifice during the crisis on infinite earths set the standards for those who follow as The Flash in the future and bringing him back cheapens that. Every thing with 
Barry seems forced and contrived. My own personal theory is that the DC editors struck gold with Hal Jordan's return and thought to duplicate that success with Barry, but for whatever reason they have really botched the job. Whats worse they seem determined to 
make this stick with Barry as the Flash. Are the DC editors forcing Barry Allen back on us or am I biased as a Wally fan. Any thoughts or opinions?

#2 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally is the Flash. Barry Allen is a relic of a deceased age. He was a great hero, but his time as a character has come and gone. He's no longer relevant. Like Hal Jordan, he was killed for a reason. Granted Barry's death was handled with far more reverance, but the fact the readership had outgrown his character was still there. 

#3 Posted by Mercy_ (92257 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Wally is the Flash. Barry Allen is a relic of a deceased age. He was a great hero, but his time as a character has come and gone. He's no longer relevant. Like Hal Jordan, he was killed for a reason. Granted Barry's death was handled with far more reverance, but the fact the readership had outgrown his character was still there.

This. Add into that the fact that Geoffcon has struck again and now you're only angering fans of Wally by what's going on with Barry.

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#4 Edited by Mockingbird (63 posts) - - Show Bio

'K, have to put in a word for Barry here. I'm sure that his death was indeed good for the story, and it cheapened things to bring him back, but come on, when has anyone in comics ever stayed dead, especially a major character like Barry Allen? Comic writers just can't help bringing characters back; it's not their fault, bless them. I think they're more to be pitied than censured.
I've only ever read the really (I mean really) old Flash comics, so I'm perfectly willing to believe that Barry is all wooden and everything in the new stuff. However, I'm more inclined to fault the writers for making him this way than for bringing him back in the first place. 
 

@FadeToBlackBolt

said:

Wally is the Flash. Barry Allen is a relic of a deceased age. He was a great hero, but his time as a character has come and gone. He's no longer relevant. Like Hal Jordan, he was killed for a reason. Granted Barry's death was handled with far more reverance, but the fact the readership had outgrown his character was still there. 

Agree to disagree on this. Yes, okay, Wally's more powerful, but I'm sorry, for me that doesn't make him THE definitive Flash. With all due respect to Wally, Barry taught the kid everything he knows. There's more to being a hero than power. Not saying that Wally doesn't have it, I'm just saying that Barry is a tough act to follow. Plus, if the day comes when we've truly 'outgrown' the gentle boyscout kind of hero that Barry is, it's a sad day for the world. That being said, I still think it would have been better for the story to leave Barry dead. But we all knew that wouldn't happen.
#5 Posted by Jake Fury (18064 posts) - - Show Bio

This kind of problem is always going to come up when you have several different characters wearing the mantle of guys like Flash & GL.
#6 Posted by DEGRAAF (7869 posts) - - Show Bio

I grew up with Wally as well and im used to them bringing characters back from the dead but Barry's resurrection seemed like the most push on fans resurrection i have ever read. They pushed forced Wally out and forced Barry in. The moment Flash Rebirth was over i even tried picking up The Flash comics still but it wasnt the same. It was boring and dry. I refuse to pick up the solo Flash again until i see Wally in it. It's not even that he was more powerful, it was a couple things for me 
 
1.) we dont need two boyscouts (Superman and Barry) 
 
2.) Wally was the heart and joy of the team. He was proud to be a hero and enjoy almost every minute of it. 
 
3.) He learned more and gained more experience way beyond what Barry taught him. By the time Barry came back he was second fiddle to Wally 
 
4.) I didnt know alot about Barry but all i ever heard about before and after his rebirth was about his mothers murder. He's more obsessed with losing one parent than Bruce was about losing both. 
 
5.) he is so much more one dimensional than Wally. Wally showed his emotions better, he had a family and cared for and loved them more than anything.
#7 Edited by Mockingbird (63 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:

This kind of problem is always going to come up when you have several different characters wearing the mantle of guys like Flash & GL.

Oh yeah, definitely. But way back when I guess they felt Barry needed a sidekick, and when that sidekick grew up everybody (myself included) felt he deserved a chance to be the Flash.
#8 Edited by Mockingbird (63 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF said:

I grew up with Wally as well and im used to them bringing characters back from the dead but Barry's resurrection seemed like the most push on fans resurrection i have ever read. They pushed forced Wally out and forced Barry in. The moment Flash Rebirth was over i even tried picking up The Flash comics still but it wasnt the same. It was boring and dry. I refuse to pick up the solo Flash again until i see Wally in it. It's not even that he was more powerful, it was a couple things for me  1.) we dont need two boyscouts (Superman and Barry)  2.) Wally was the heart and joy of the team. He was proud to be a hero and enjoy almost every minute of it.  3.) He learned more and gained more experience way beyond what Barry taught him. By the time Barry came back he was second fiddle to Wally  4.) I didnt know alot about Barry but all i ever heard about before and after his rebirth was about his mothers murder. He's more obsessed with losing one parent than Bruce was about losing both.  5.) he is so much more one dimensional than Wally. Wally showed his emotions better, he had a family and cared for and loved them more than anything.

I'm sure you're right that they pushed things, and that the comic was boring and dry afterward. I don't doubt that it could have been much better done. I'm just saying we all knew that Barry would eventually come back, and that he deserves a little credit. 
With point number three, you're definitely right. Barry taught Wally a lot, but he also learned an awful lot on his own.
 I also agree with point number five, to a certain extent. In the really old comics I read Barry came across as warm and caring, but I gather they don't write him that way any more. I think they could and should, though. 
I've got to say that I disagree with points one, two, and four. 
1: I know Superman has a reputation as a boyscout, but I don't think he deserves it. To be honest, I see him as kind of a jerk sometimes. Plus, IMHO, we can always use more boyscouts.
2: Once again, I've only read super old stuff, but Barry was also proud to be a hero and enjoyed every minute of it.
4: To me it seems kind of impossible to be more obsessed than Bruce. I'm just sayin'.
 
From what everyone is saying, though, I hate the direction they're taking Barry's character. I guess he just isn't what he used to be, which is really sad. The old Barry wouldn't have obsessed about his mom's murder, and that's just a start. Sounds like they've kind of wrecked him.
#9 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2218 posts) - - Show Bio

I love that he is back. He represents the past. What people don't understand is  that, yes since Hal and Barry are back they get their titles back, but they themselves don't see themselves as the best. For our generation Kyle and Wally are Green Lantern (For some) and The Flash. IMO, after everything they did, they deserve their titles back. That doesn;t mean the others go away. I am upset, though, that Wally doesn't have his own titile right now. He may in the Revamp, but not now. Superman died. Doesn't mean he should say that way. And Spiderman is dying now, but he's not going to stay that way. I respect every generation of heroes. And I like how the old mixes with the new. 

#10 Posted by Mockingbird (63 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said:
I love that he is back. He represents the past. What people don't understand is  that, yes since Hal and Barry are back they get their titles back, but they themselves don't see themselves as the best. For our generation Kyle and Wally are Green Lantern (For some) and The Flash. IMO, after everything they did, they deserve their titles back. That doesn;t mean the others go away. I am upset, though, that Wally doesn't have his own titile right now. He may in the Revamp, but not now. Superman died. Doesn't mean he should say that way. And Spiderman is dying now, but he's not going to stay that way. I respect every generation of heroes. And I like how the old mixes with the new. 
This.
#11 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said:
I love that he is back. He represents the past. What people don't understand is  that, yes since Hal and Barry are back they get their titles back, but they themselves don't see themselves as the best. For our generation Kyle and Wally are Green Lantern (For some) and The Flash. IMO, after everything they did, they deserve their titles back. That doesn;t mean the others go away. I am upset, though, that Wally doesn't have his own titile right now. He may in the Revamp, but not now. Superman died. Doesn't mean he should say that way. And Spiderman is dying now, but he's not going to stay that way. I respect every generation of heroes. And I like how the old mixes with the new. 
The issue with both Hal and Barry(AKA the reason they get killed off) is because they  had no relation to the comic readers. That's why Kyle and Wally did so well after the initial apprehension over their introductions to the roles. 
 
That being said, Ultimate Peter Parker is going to stay dead, in my opinion.
#12 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2218 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:
@GreenLantern555 said:
I love that he is back. He represents the past. What people don't understand is  that, yes since Hal and Barry are back they get their titles back, but they themselves don't see themselves as the best. For our generation Kyle and Wally are Green Lantern (For some) and The Flash. IMO, after everything they did, they deserve their titles back. That doesn;t mean the others go away. I am upset, though, that Wally doesn't have his own titile right now. He may in the Revamp, but not now. Superman died. Doesn't mean he should say that way. And Spiderman is dying now, but he's not going to stay that way. I respect every generation of heroes. And I like how the old mixes with the new. 
The issue with both Hal and Barry(AKA the reason they get killed off) is because they  had no relation to the comic readers. That's why Kyle and Wally did so well after the initial apprehension over their introductions to the roles.   That being said, Ultimate Peter Parker is going to stay dead, in my opinion.
What issue are you referring to? That's why they are so awesome now. IMO, these two were way ahead of their time in terms of the relationship with the readers. Nowadays, the readers can relate more because we are so different as humans then we were then.  
#13 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

The issue I'm referring to is the problem between Hal/Barry and the readers, their stories and their comiclines were doing badly and that's why they were replaced. Reading the pre-parallax Green Lantern(Hal) and Flash comics it was painfully obvious how bland these characters were.

#14 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

  It was a flop, just like Icarusflies said in a topic before, all the Flash stories with Barry could have been told with Wally.  Barry didn't add anything new to the story, and the way he is written, he lacks the personality that Wally has developed.  Not only that, but Barry doesn't really have the supporting cast as well.

#15 Edited by Mockingbird (63 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta say, you'd almost think the writers were messing up the comic on purpose since Barry came back, trying to make sure everybody hates him for ruining things. Seems like they succeeded. Giving up the fight now, 'cause apparently I'm the only who ever liked Barry Allen (With the possible exception of GreenLantern555).

#16 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if you'd call it a failure but it sure hasn't done anything for me.

#17 Posted by DEGRAAF (7869 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
  It was a flop, just like Icarusflies said in a topic before, all the Flash stories with Barry could have been told with Wally.  Barry didn't add anything new to the story, and the way he is written, he lacks the personality that Wally has developed.  Not only that, but Barry doesn't really have the supporting cast as well.

agreed 
#18 Posted by DEGRAAF (7869 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555 said:
What issue are you referring to? That's why they are so awesome now. IMO, these two were way ahead of their time in terms of the relationship with the readers. Nowadays, the readers can relate more because we are so different as humans then we were then.  


Idk what you think changed about Barry but before Hal's reboot he was boring and old. Geoff Johns re-adjusted his backstory and made him more fun and cool again. He changed him for the better.
#19 Posted by GundamHeavyarms (701 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say it was a failure.  The biggest criticism that I hear about Barry is that he doesn't have a personality.  They're right, because no Silver Age superhero had a personality.  Most Silver Age stories focused more on the tights and fights than getting to know the person behind the mask, or cowl, or whatever.  All Johns is doing is fleshing Barry out, delving more into who he is, his motivations and the like.  Which is exactly what he did with Wally.  Barry and Wally aren't interchangeable.  They're both grounded, they're both everyman archetypes at their core, but Barry is more of a boy scout, and Wally is more fun-loving, dare I say Spider-Manish.  In their own individual way they are great characters to have.

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