Do you think Barbara Gordon is much better than Stephanie Brown?

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#1 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Barbara Gordon and Cass Cain. But I find Stephanie Brown extremely disgusting, what do you guys think? Is Babs better than Steph-loser-brownie as a character?

#2 Posted by Lvenger (21246 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: OK word to the wise, you're gonna start an avalanche of arguments. And calling Steph disgusting really isn't going to help your case. What about her is disgusting?

#3 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: LOL, I just find her extremely whiney and immature. I love Barbara and Cass, in all their iterations. Sure, I have preference over Babs as Batgirl, but I just thought Stephanie should've stayed dead the first time. I don't even want her back as spoiler.

#4 Posted by Lvenger (21246 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Well in any case once some Stephanie Brown fans see this, it's gonna go down.

#5 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I dont think she has much of a fanbase in CV which is why I even dared to write it :P

#6 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

Look, I like Babs best out of all the Batgirls, yes, but is there really any need to bash the others? All three if these girls were great friends with each other and got along like family, and honestly if any one of them heard someone bad mouthing another, they'd all team up and kick ass against the person talking crap. Don't understand why Batgirl fans have to hate on the version they might not like...

#7 Posted by Icarusflies (12513 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Stephanie Brown is so much better than Barbara it's not even funny.

Barbara came into her own, not as Batgirl, but as Oracle. Reverting her to that state is bad for the character, the fans, etc.

Stephanie brought a sense of fun to Batgirl, and really showed how the bat family worked together.

And Cassie is great too...but Babs is lame. :P

Moderator
#8 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Icarusflies said:

@sethysquare: And Cassie is great too...but Babs is lame. :P

Nah uh, you're wrong. Babs WAS lame and now she is cured. LOL.

Stephanie Brown...... I don't even like the sound of her name. I'm praying that DC never ever allows Brown to come back to DCU. Ever, just like how they did to linda denvers.

If she comes back, I guess I'll just have to avoid any book she is in, unless she hijacks Batgirl. I really want Cass to return as Black Bat though.

#9 Posted by Icarusflies (12513 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare:

You know what, I'm just gonna leave this thread before I get myself in trouble. :P

Moderator
#10 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

Look, I like Babs best out of all the Batgirls, yes, but is there really any need to bash the others? All three if these girls were great friends with each other and got along like family, and honestly if any one of them heard someone bad mouthing another, they'd all team up and kick ass against the person talking crap. Don't understand why Batgirl fans have to hate on the version they might not like...

Babs and Cass are family to me. I would hate one that threatens the existence of either of them. Since Cass is the daughter of Lady Shiva, I'm fairly certain Cass would be back very very soon. And yes, the next Batgirl I wish would return is Cass as Black Bat.

#11 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio
@sethysquare well, that's great, but you're still hating on Steph. I mean, she's not my favorite, either, and it's fine if you don't like her, but there's no need to start a topic about how bad you think she is, which is just asking for a flame war. I see this Batgirl hate all the time, and honestly it's mostly from Steph fans towards Babs, but it goes all ways and it's really frustrating to see, because no one is making their favorite Batgirl look good by hating on the one they don't like.
#12 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

@sethysquare well, that's great, but you're still hating on Steph. I mean, she's not my favorite, either, and it's fine if you don't like her, but there's no need to start a topic about how bad you think she is, which is just asking for a flame war. I see this Batgirl hate all the time, and honestly it's mostly from Steph fans towards Babs, but it goes all ways and it's really frustrating to see, because no one is making their favorite Batgirl look good by hating on the one they don't like.

Very well said!

#13 Posted by Braydenrules (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Yeah, Barbara will always be the best Bat in Gotham for me. I never liked Stephani, Cass was barely tolerable, so I'm glad the new 52 brought back the Barbara I knew and loved!

#14 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@hectorsquall: I love that picture.

#15 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Stephani sucks, in my opinion.

#16 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13699 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not all that much of a fan to be honest but I can respect how she's grown.

#17 Posted by Seafarinhare (59 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Steph alot. She was not very fit for the role, but it was a process of growth and she was really getting the hang of it before they rebooted. I really enjoyed her run in Batgirl, and the crossover into Red Robin as well. To be honest, as much as I like Barbara as Batgirl, she needs to get shot in the spine again. We need Oracle back.

#18 Edited by The Stegman (26098 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems that Gail basically turned New 52 Babs into Steph if you ask me.

Online
#19 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

I always thought Steph was really overrated. She's not a horrible character, not even a bad one, but I don't see what's so special about her.

Plus, that so called "growth" only came after she faked her death. Before that, she had been consistently incompetent for years.

#20 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

I like her the most.

#21 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: how does she threaten the exitence of the other Batgirls. Babs was Oracle, and Cass was Black Bat. They still existed and thrived in their roles as members of the Bat-family. You can not like a character thats fine, im not here to argue that. I just want to know what about her you dont like. DC has made it a point that she doesnt see the light of day, pulling every suspected return. So unless she is making this huge triumphant return, she isnt a threat. You are right about Cass might be coming back with the appearance of Lady Shiva. And in the Batgirl Annual, Mary has alot of the same characteristics as Cass. So idk, there is a following to Steph, but they shouldnt throw her in so nonchalantly. I just want some clarity as to why she is so bad

#22 Posted by geoff2005 (206 posts) - - Show Bio

the whole argument to why cant babs be oracle, why cant she be both? I like her as Batgirl and oracle but if i had to pick one then i pick batgirl

#23 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@sethysquare: how does she threaten the exitence of the other Batgirls. Babs was Oracle, and Cass was Black Bat. They still existed and thrived in their roles as members of the Bat-family. You can not like a character thats fine, im not here to argue that. I just want to know what about her you dont like. DC has made it a point that she doesnt see the light of day, pulling every suspected return. So unless she is making this huge triumphant return, she isnt a threat. You are right about Cass might be coming back with the appearance of Lady Shiva. And in the Batgirl Annual, Mary has alot of the same characteristics as Cass. So idk, there is a following to Steph, but they shouldnt throw her in so nonchalantly. I just want some clarity as to why she is so bad

Because Babs is always meant to be Batgirl. Should Brown returns, people would only want her Babs to get shot in the back again.

That is horrible and the reason why Brown should never come back. On top of that, she was a really boring character with no personality and good supporting cast. Babs got reduced to being a supporting cast in her own book. Thats a spit in the face for all fans of Babs

#24 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

Stephani sucks, in my opinion.

<3

@Braydenrules said:

@sethysquare: Yeah, Barbara will always be the best Bat in Gotham for me. I never liked Stephani, Cass was barely tolerable, so I'm glad the new 52 brought back the Barbara I knew and loved!

<3

#25 Posted by The_Tree (7987 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope.

Steph > Babs

#26 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: @sethysquare said:

@wessaari said:

@sethysquare: how does she threaten the exitence of the other Batgirls. Babs was Oracle, and Cass was Black Bat. They still existed and thrived in their roles as members of the Bat-family. You can not like a character thats fine, im not here to argue that. I just want to know what about her you dont like. DC has made it a point that she doesnt see the light of day, pulling every suspected return. So unless she is making this huge triumphant return, she isnt a threat. You are right about Cass might be coming back with the appearance of Lady Shiva. And in the Batgirl Annual, Mary has alot of the same characteristics as Cass. So idk, there is a following to Steph, but they shouldnt throw her in so nonchalantly. I just want some clarity as to why she is so bad

Because Babs is always meant to be Batgirl. Should Brown returns, people would only want her Babs to get shot in the back again.

That is horrible and the reason why Brown should never come back. On top of that, she was a really boring character with no personality and good supporting cast. Babs got reduced to being a supporting cast in her own book. Thats a spit in the face for all fans of Babs

well not necessarily. People want her back, and if she were Spoiler, then i doubt many Steph fans would be disappointed. Yes there are many people who think Babs should be back in the chair, and even in this forum someone said she should get shot again, but that doesnt count as all Steph fans. Lets take me for example, i really like Stephanie Brown. She gives an interesting mix in my opinion, she was a good Batgirl, and the ties she had with Tim Drake became fundemental to both their characters. Is she perfect? Far from it, but its the fact that she doesnt give up, that is pretty awesome. But you have your opinions on her, and thats fine. Im currently reading Gail's run with Batgirl, and I have bought the past 4 issues. I love Babs as Batgirl, but if Steph does come back, she needs to stick with Spoiler. At least for now.

#27 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@sethysquare: @sethysquare said:

@wessaari said:

@sethysquare: how does she threaten the exitence of the other Batgirls. Babs was Oracle, and Cass was Black Bat. They still existed and thrived in their roles as members of the Bat-family. You can not like a character thats fine, im not here to argue that. I just want to know what about her you dont like. DC has made it a point that she doesnt see the light of day, pulling every suspected return. So unless she is making this huge triumphant return, she isnt a threat. You are right about Cass might be coming back with the appearance of Lady Shiva. And in the Batgirl Annual, Mary has alot of the same characteristics as Cass. So idk, there is a following to Steph, but they shouldnt throw her in so nonchalantly. I just want some clarity as to why she is so bad

Because Babs is always meant to be Batgirl. Should Brown returns, people would only want her Babs to get shot in the back again.

That is horrible and the reason why Brown should never come back. On top of that, she was a really boring character with no personality and good supporting cast. Babs got reduced to being a supporting cast in her own book. Thats a spit in the face for all fans of Babs

well not necessarily. People want her back, and if she were Spoiler, then i doubt many Steph fans would be disappointed. Yes there are many people who think Babs should be back in the chair, and even in this forum someone said she should get shot again, but that doesnt count as all Steph fans. Lets take me for example, i really like Stephanie Brown. She gives an interesting mix in my opinion, she was a good Batgirl, and the ties she had with Tim Drake became fundemental to both their characters. Is she perfect? Far from it, but its the fact that she doesnt give up, that is pretty awesome. But you have your opinions on her, and thats fine. Im currently reading Gail's run with Batgirl, and I have bought the past 4 issues. I love Babs as Batgirl, but if Steph does come back, she needs to stick with Spoiler. At least for now.

I guess you can say that. I think this forum doesn't have the insane Steph fans that I've seen elsewhere and they're all really mean to Babs. So I guess I'm retaliating a little. I'm still not crazy about her returning.

#28 Edited by Ironhawk22 (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Heck no! Stephanie Brown is way better than Babara, and Cass is better than both. Listen Babs was Batgirl last in like the 80's, she moved on to bigger, better places. She evolved as a character when she became Oracle. Now I'm not saying Babs fans shouldn't get Barbara as Batgirl. That's awesome for them, sure I prefer her as Oracle but that's great for them. Batgirl isn't Barbara's book Batgirl isn't just one character it's a costume used by them. Why should Babs have had a starring role in Stephanie's Batgirl book.

Why should you care if Stephanie comes back, none of the Steph fans I've talked to want to cripple Babs, all they want is to see their favorite character in a comic.

Plus you don't have anything to worry about it, under Didio's regime Stephanie and Cass will most likely never appear in the New 52, or Smallville or any out of continuity book. Is Dick Grayson a "horrible, horrible" character because he was Batman and questioned the awesome of the OTBM(one true Batman) ? No, I honestly thought he was great as Batman, and wish he still was.

#29 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ironhawk22 said:

none of the Steph fans I've talked to want to cripple Babs

heh, apparently you haven't been to some of the darker corners of the internet...

#30 Edited by Ironhawk22 (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I mostly stick to the New DCU wiki forums, none of the fans there want her crippled. I don't really use the comicvine forums too often. Most of the ones I know just want Stephanie to show up in something whether it be as Spoiler or Nightwing.

I've recently started reading some more of Stephanie and I really like what I've read so far. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up some of the issues of her series from my LCS.

#31 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ironhawk22 said:

Heck no! Stephanie Brown is way better than Babara, and Cass is better than both. Listen Babs was Batgirl last in like the 80's, she moved on to bigger, better places. She evolved as a character when she became Oracle. Now I'm not saying Babs fans shouldn't get Barbara as Batgirl. That's awesome for them, sure I prefer her as Oracle but that's great for them. Batgirl isn't Barbara's book Batgirl isn't just one character it's a costume used by them. Why should Babs have had a starring role in Stephanie's Batgirl book.

Why should you care if Stephanie comes back, none of the Steph fans I've talked to want to cripple Babs, all they want is to see their favorite character in a comic.

Plus you don't have anything to worry about it, under Didio's regime Stephanie and Cass will most likely never appear in the New 52, or Smallville or any out of continuity book. Is Dick Grayson a "horrible, horrible" character because he was Batman and questioned the awesome of the OTBM(one true Batman) ? No, I honestly thought he was great as Batman, and wish he still was.

Bigger, better = girl in a wheelchair behind the computer. okays. whatever you say.

Also, Steph fans are very very very mean to Babs. Very.

#32 Posted by Ironhawk22 (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep, I liked Babs better as Oracle. DC says they want diversity, and what do they do take Babs out of a wheelchair, make Jim Corrigan Spectre again, and bench Renee Montoya(Although I don't have a huge problem with the original Question coming back) I found Barbara more interesting as Oracle but that's just me. Again you're making a generalization about all Stephanie Brown fans, all of the ones I've talked to don't care if she's Batgirl or not just that she's appearing somewhere. Also you're being a bit hypocritical, saying that Steph fans are evil because they want Babs back in the wheelchair, while you want Steph to disappear into limbo forever.

#33 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13699 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22 said:

Heck no! Stephanie Brown is way better than Babara, and Cass is better than both. Listen Babs was Batgirl last in like the 80's, she moved on to bigger, better places. She evolved as a character when she became Oracle. Now I'm not saying Babs fans shouldn't get Barbara as Batgirl. That's awesome for them, sure I prefer her as Oracle but that's great for them. Batgirl isn't Barbara's book Batgirl isn't just one character it's a costume used by them. Why should Babs have had a starring role in Stephanie's Batgirl book.

Why should you care if Stephanie comes back, none of the Steph fans I've talked to want to cripple Babs, all they want is to see their favorite character in a comic.

Plus you don't have anything to worry about it, under Didio's regime Stephanie and Cass will most likely never appear in the New 52, or Smallville or any out of continuity book. Is Dick Grayson a "horrible, horrible" character because he was Batman and questioned the awesome of the OTBM(one true Batman) ? No, I honestly thought he was great as Batman, and wish he still was.

Bigger, better = girl in a wheelchair behind a computer/uber badass information broker/hacker with connections to virtually every hero in the DC Universe/leader of the Birds Of Prey/ Core member of the JLA's "pantheon" during the League's greatest run.

Also, Steph fans are very very very mean to Babs. Very.

fixed

#34 Posted by Ironhawk22 (274 posts) - - Show Bio

So true Avenging X-Bolt!

#35 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13699 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

Look, I like Babs best out of all the Batgirls, yes, but is there really any need to bash the others? All three if these girls were great friends with each other and got along like family, and honestly if any one of them heard someone bad mouthing another, they'd all team up and kick ass against the person talking crap. Don't understand why Batgirl fans have to hate on the version they might not like...

this.

#36 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ironhawk22 said:

Yep, I liked Babs better as Oracle. DC says they want diversity, and what do they do take Babs out of a wheelchair, make Jim Corrigan Spectre again, and bench Renee Montoya(Although I don't have a huge problem with the original Question coming back) I found Barbara more interesting as Oracle but that's just me. Again you're making a generalization about all Stephanie Brown fans, all of the ones I've talked to don't care if she's Batgirl or not just that she's appearing somewhere. Also you're being a bit hypocritical, saying that Steph fans are evil because they want Babs back in the wheelchair, while you want Steph to disappear into limbo forever.

please, they're not the only people who got benched.

Tempest, Aqualad, Dolphin, Aquagirl, Tula, Kate Spencer, Azarael, Catman, Scandal Savage, Ragdoll, Linda Denvers (Supergirl), Chris Kent, Red Star and etc.

In addition to that there are tons of diversity right now. Batwing got his own solo book, Blue Beetle, Voodoo, Static, Mr Terrific just ended theirs, Katana and Vibe are getting their first solo book ever.

They are making some changes around, that is many characters that are too similar are being left out until a later time where they can be reintroduced and properly differentiated from the other similar characters.

Robins are a whole other different matter cos all of them have huge fan base and sell lots.

Stephanie Brown on the other hand just doesn't sell. Its no wonder she is kept in limbo hell together with Matrix and Chris Kent.

#37 Posted by Ironhawk22 (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh did I say they were the only characters that got benched? No. No I didn't. I'm a huge fan of Tempest, Aqualad, Aquagirl, & the Secret Six. However none of them sell, Didio hates the TT, Tula and Dolphin are dead and will likely remain so, and Red Star was never a big deal anyway(I like the character but I can see why). Please, Static and Mr Terrific never had a chance. Not because of the characters because of the creative teams they had. John Razum had literally not control over his own book(that's more editorial) and Eric Wallace(I didn't hate Titans but most people did, it wasn't exactly a fan favorite title) and instead changing the creative team they just cancelled them. Vibe and Katana. Vibe isn't gonna last very long, Katana I may try but I've heard bad things about Nocenti's writing. Jason Todd didn't have a fanbase prior to the reboot, now he does(kinda?) due to RHATO. Steph's Batgirl was selling better than quite a few New 52 books one being Fury of Firestorm.

#38 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont care much about Barbara and stephanie, because cassandra will definitely kick their behinds!!

#39 Posted by Durakken (1591 posts) - - Show Bio

The question is sorta dumb...

Barbara Gordon as Batgirl never really existed in terms of main character...besides a few really awful pieces, but Stephanie, when she took over the Batgirl role she was more or less modeled on what people thought Barbara Gordon would act like as Batgirl... and now that they shunted Stephanie away and made Barbara batgirl again they have set about modeling Barbara on Stephanie... So "preferring" one over the other is sorta silly and claiming one is being written as the other and so the original should thrive is also dishonest because they're modeled after each other in a weird moebius strip sort of way... at least in their Batgirl incarnations...

I don't like where Gail Simone was starting to head with the character because it doesn't make sense nor do I think that Batgirl Special should in anyway be considered extant... and it's one of the only things I'll say that about.

#40 Posted by hyperman (486 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Babs, I'm overjoyed she's back as Batgirl. Well and all those who hate Babs is Batgirl again and love Steph... to hell with them!!

#41 Posted by haydenclaireheroes (7562 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Stephanie. She brings something different to the bat family. She is pretty much the only optomistic Bat family member.

#42 Posted by BlackRowan (51 posts) - - Show Bio

what the hell? of stephanie is better than barbara... because stephanie has fun , she is amazing...about barbara... she is boring

#43 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@haydenclaireheroes said:

I like Stephanie. She brings something different to the bat family. She is pretty much the only optomistic Bat family member.

0_0...what about Dick?

#44 Posted by SmashBrawler (5978 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep.

#45 Posted by haydenclaireheroes (7562 posts) - - Show Bio

@vernierhawk001: Dick is not always optimistic

#46 Posted by RustyRoy (14031 posts) - - Show Bio

Babs is the best Batgirl.

#47 Posted by Hastny (59 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown and Oracle are my favourite characters in comics. But lets face it. None of them has appeared since the reboot. This new batgirl isn't the Barbara Gordon we've all come to love. She's to insecure in herself not to mention bland and broken. All in all she's just a horrible copy of Stephanie but without the charm and homour. Hopefully we'll one day see the three ladies fighting alongside each other again but somehow I doubt it, and that makes me really sad indeed.

#48 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15132 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim Drake is the best Bat-girl.

#49 Posted by TheCannon (19472 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL. Trolling 101.

#50 Edited by dboyrules2011 (14744 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Barbara, i'm excited she's back as Batgirl. Barbara>>>>>>Stephanie Brown.

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