The Black Avengers: Would it work?

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#1 Posted by jhazzroucher (15580 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i happen to collide on this image and I find it awesome. I'm not black but I think they should make one for at least 12 issues. What do you think guys and gals? Who would you want to be the leader and could they work together well? and perhap you want to add another black character or more to the team?

#2 Posted by Vincent92 (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher: it could, but it depends on what kind of story really an what kind of team as well are they a street level team or fight big villians like the main avengers or both( like new avengers)

leader would be hard cause most these a characters have lead some team, but i do see photon leading oh another charcter to add would be war machine

#3 Posted by Illuminatus (9504 posts) - - Show Bio

They'd get overpowered in a matter of days.

#4 Posted by jhazzroucher (15580 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vincent92 said:

@jhazzroucher: it could, but it depends on what kind of story really an what kind of team as well are they a street level team or fight big villians like the main avengers or both( like new avengers)

leader would be hard cause most these a characters have lead some team, but i do see photon leading oh another charcter to add would be war machine

Indeed. it would still also depend on how the writers will write them.

Yeah! War Machine is super cool.

Then let's add Blue Marvel just in case there'd be Avengers vs Black Avengers.

#5 Posted by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a bit skeptical if there is a market for them. If there is then cool. Depending on the plot, I may read it.

#6 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

#7 Posted by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

#8 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

First of, the LGBT movement within the comic book industry is a marketing ploy aimed at appealing to mainstream media. I having nothing against the gays. Secondly, what possible reason could make this band of black superheroes want to form a team? To fight a super powered KKK member? Whoever created that image didn't even give it much thought; Photon is in the team, but Sam Wilson (The Falcon) ins't?

#9 Posted by Vincent92 (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher: that would be cool fight as long as they don't overpower the blue marvel like they did sentry, i would say as writer my choices are geof johns or joss wheadon would be cool

#10 Posted by jhazzroucher (15580 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vincent92 said:

@jhazzroucher: that would be cool fight as long as they don't overpower the blue marvel like they did sentry, i would say as writer my choices are geof johns or joss wheadon would be cool

geoff johns yeah!

#11 Posted by Vincent92 (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese: well thats why i said you would need a good writer to make up a goood story for them to come together

@jhazzroucher: plus it would be nice for the writers to learn from past titles to leanr what can work works and dosen't: for example the the Crew: http://www.comicvine.com/crew/65-41420/

also i would love to see storm and black panther work out there issues

#12 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

First of, the LGBT movement within the comic book industry is a marketing ploy aimed at appealing to mainstream media. I having nothing against the gays. Secondly, what possible reason could make this band of black superheroes want to form a team? To fight a super powered KKK member? Whoever created that image didn't even give it much thought; Photon is in the team, but Sam Wilson (The Falcon) ins't?

Marketing or not, gay readers are now have someone they can relate to, so I think it's a good thing in my opinion.

As for black superheroes, it's not necessary, but if you don't question an all-white superheroes team (Which are everywhere) then why would you question an all-black superheroes team? The writers could choose to do it because it could provide an interesting spin on the usual all-white team.

#13 Posted by Onemoreposter (4021 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

First of, the LGBT movement within the comic book industry is a marketing ploy aimed at appealing to mainstream media. I having nothing against the gays. Secondly, what possible reason could make this band of black superheroes want to form a team? To fight a super powered KKK member? Whoever created that image didn't even give it much thought; Photon is in the team, but Sam Wilson (The Falcon) ins't?

I loled at the Super powered KKK part. He does make a valid point though. Why would the team be exclusively black other than just having them be exclusively black? The only way I can see it happening is if somehow these characters were transported back in time to an oppressive segregated state where all the none black characters are either bigots or unpowered. Also you might get away with a villain some how turning all the none black heroes into bigots (again possibly through time travel). Eh, neither one of these options sounds that great to me. You'd need a REALLY strong author to pull off the story. Maybe Grant. He's my go to guy for making stuff that doesn't make sense make sense : P

Wasn't there a rather recent mini which had this same basic premise, an all black superhero team?

Also, wtf at cloak without dagger....

#14 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7412 posts) - - Show Bio

Super powered KKK

#15 Posted by Annex (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher: don't mind as long as they originate from different backgrounds, I mean like black avengers from outside of american soil.

#16 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14428 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't think we need another avengers team. and that i'am pretty sure that Marvel wouldn't want to build a one race team since its to exclusive narrowing options down for members. It would also directly highlight race as an issue which i don't think is a major problem at Marvel. The X-men and avengers have had several important black members over the years. But if it had demand iam sure tehy would consider it. Just not with the roster pictured i lacks raw power.

#17 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

.......Apparently Blue Marvel still can't be an Avenger...

#18 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84677 posts) - - Show Bio

Its been tried before... sorta (besides the Crew)

Moderator
#19 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry said:

Marketing or not, gay readers are now have someone they can relate to, so I think it's a good thing in my opinion.

As for black superheroes, it's not necessary, but if you don't question an all-white superheroes team (Which are everywhere) then why would you question an all-black superheroes team? The writers could choose to do it because it could provide an interesting spin on the usual all-white team.

A character doesn't have to have a certain sexual orientation for the reader to be able to identify with him/her (this goes for both gay and straight readers). Especially those that have preexisting histories (i.e. Alan Scott). There are more facets to life that resonate with the reader, than simply being gay or straight.

Why do I question the validity of an all black superhero team? Simple; all the heroes on this aforementioned black super hero team have history of their own, that do not tie with each other (unless Marvel wants to write them in, in the same manner they did to the Sentry). It's not a matter of race, rather, whether or not this would make any sense. Why would Marvel want to publish a racially exclusive team, unless the problem is racially exclusive?

#20 Posted by HotSauceCommittee (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

First of, the LGBT movement within the comic book industry is a marketing ploy aimed at appealing to mainstream media. I having nothing against the gays. Secondly, what possible reason could make this band of black superheroes want to form a team? To fight a super powered KKK member? Whoever created that image didn't even give it much thought; Photon is in the team, but Sam Wilson (The Falcon) ins't?

Marketing or not, gay readers are now have someone they can relate to, so I think it's a good thing in my opinion.

As for black superheroes, it's not necessary, but if you don't question an all-white superheroes team (Which are everywhere) then why would you question an all-black superheroes team? The writers could choose to do it because it could provide an interesting spin on the usual all-white team.

So because I'm gay I can't relate to Superman and need my own specially tailored gay characters? You're gross.

#21 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

Marketing or not, gay readers are now have someone they can relate to, so I think it's a good thing in my opinion.

As for black superheroes, it's not necessary, but if you don't question an all-white superheroes team (Which are everywhere) then why would you question an all-black superheroes team? The writers could choose to do it because it could provide an interesting spin on the usual all-white team.

A character doesn't have to have a certain sexual orientation for the reader to be able to identify with him/her (this goes for both gay and straight readers). Especially those that have preexisting histories (i.e. Alan Scott). There are more facets to life that resonate with the reader, than simply being gay or straight.

Why do I question the validity of an all black superhero team? Simple; all the heroes on this aforementioned black super hero team have history of their own, that do not tie with each other (unless Marvel wants to write them in, in the same manner they did to the Sentry). It's not a matter of race, rather, whether or not this would make any sense. Why would Marvel want to publish a racially exclusive team, unless the problem is racially exclusive?

When it comes to relationship, a gay person can't relate to a straight person's relationship with the opposite gender because they don't feel that way about the opposite gender. A lot of superheroes comics have relationship in it, and a lot of them are very iconic like Superman/Lois and Spiderman/Mary Jane. Gay people may be able to enjoy the superheroes saving the world and such, but they can't relate to them on a personal level. Gay people experiences life differently from straight. Society treats both groups differently. Having diversity meaning that gay kids can also aspire to be superheroes and leaders of the world. I don't think a straight person can understand the experience of a gay person growing up with no one they can identify with while being constantly condemn to Hell by people close to them. I'm not saying that should keep putting gay characters in comics for no reasons, but if there are gay characters, it shouldn't be an issue. I really need to stretch that this is just my opinion, I'm not speaking on behalf of the LGBT community since someone seems to get the wrong idea. -_-

#22 Edited by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@HotSauceCommittee said:

So because I'm gay I can't relate to Superman and need my own specially tailored gay characters? You're gross.

What? That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. My point is: if you're gay, you don't need a gay character to relate to just so you can read a comic book (and vice versa).

Edit: My bad. You were addressing the other user.

#23 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@HotSauceCommittee said:

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

First the whole gay movement, now this? Ughhh..

I don't see what's wrong with having a gay or black character. Why are you against it?

First of, the LGBT movement within the comic book industry is a marketing ploy aimed at appealing to mainstream media. I having nothing against the gays. Secondly, what possible reason could make this band of black superheroes want to form a team? To fight a super powered KKK member? Whoever created that image didn't even give it much thought; Photon is in the team, but Sam Wilson (The Falcon) ins't?

Marketing or not, gay readers are now have someone they can relate to, so I think it's a good thing in my opinion.

As for black superheroes, it's not necessary, but if you don't question an all-white superheroes team (Which are everywhere) then why would you question an all-black superheroes team? The writers could choose to do it because it could provide an interesting spin on the usual all-white team.

So because I'm gay I can't relate to Superman and need my own specially tailored gay characters? You're gross.

Keep putting words into my mouth please...

Sometimes I wonder why people can't have a rational debate without attacking others. You're gay, and you can relate to straight superman, fine, good for you, but that's not my point. There are specific aspects in life that a gay person may not be able to relate to a straight person. Like kissing the opposite sex or the way society treats them. This is how I perceive things as a bisexual person, but I'm not claiming to speak for every GLBT member out there.

#24 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry said:

When it comes to relationship, a gay person can't relate to a straight person's relationship with the opposite gender because they don't feel that way about the opposite gender. A lot of superheroes comics have relationship in it, and a lot of them are very iconic like Superman/Lois and Spiderman/Mary Jane. Gay people may be able to enjoy the superheroes saving the world and such, but they can't relate to them on a personal level. Gay people experiences life differently from straight. Society treats both groups differently. Having diversity meaning that gay kids can also aspire to be superheroes and leaders of the world. I don't think a straight person can understand the experience of a gay person growing up with no one they can identify with while being constantly condemn to Hell by people close to them.

Now you're treating the gays as if their sexual orientation defines them.....I don't think any person who picks up a comic book has the preconceived notion that they won't eventually be emotionally invested into it, so whether or not a character is in a gay/straight relationship is rather trivial.

#25 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

When it comes to relationship, a gay person can't relate to a straight person's relationship with the opposite gender because they don't feel that way about the opposite gender. A lot of superheroes comics have relationship in it, and a lot of them are very iconic like Superman/Lois and Spiderman/Mary Jane. Gay people may be able to enjoy the superheroes saving the world and such, but they can't relate to them on a personal level. Gay people experiences life differently from straight. Society treats both groups differently. Having diversity meaning that gay kids can also aspire to be superheroes and leaders of the world. I don't think a straight person can understand the experience of a gay person growing up with no one they can identify with while being constantly condemn to Hell by people close to them.

Now you're treating the gays as if their sexual orientation defines them.....I don't think any person who picks up a comic book has the preconceived notion that they won't eventually be emotionally invested into it, so whether or not a character is in a gay/straight relationship is rather trivial.

Like I said before, this is just my opinion, and I have never claimed to speak on behalf on the whole LGBT community. Please don't put words into my mouth, I didn't say that it's something that define them, but it's one aspect of who they are. I have the same opinion about James Robinson on this. It shouldn't be a big deal, but if there is a gay character, people shouldn't make a big deal about it. Gay people just happen to have someone they can identify with in certain aspect of life, and straights shouldn't care if that character juts happen to be gay. I'm not saying that should keep putting gay characters in comics for no reasons, but if there are gay characters, it shouldn't be an issue.

#26 Posted by TheThe (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

This could work, but in this order they better change the name of team, because the title "black avengers" is racially charged. There are a lot of "all white" teams, but those teams dont have names refering specifically to their ethnicity. Starting from that, i believe everybody should be able to relate to any kind of team or any kind of member(black, latino, gay, female, white, Extraterrial) as soon as the story is good . Sexual orientation, "race" or gender mean nothing when the writer is skilled.

#27 Posted by jhazzroucher (15580 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry said:

When it comes to relationship, a gay person can't relate to a straight person's relationship with the opposite gender because they don't feel that way about the opposite gender. A lot of superheroes comics have relationship in it, and a lot of them are very iconic like Superman/Lois and Spiderman/Mary Jane. Gay people may be able to enjoy the superheroes saving the world and such, but they can't relate to them on a personal level. Gay people experiences life differently from straight. Society treats both groups differently. Having diversity meaning that gay kids can also aspire to be superheroes and leaders of the world. I don't think a straight person can understand the experience of a gay person growing up with no one they can identify with while being constantly condemn to Hell by people close to them.

Now you're treating the gays as if their sexual orientation defines them.....I don't think any person who picks up a comic book has the preconceived notion that they won't eventually be emotionally invested into it, so whether or not a character is in a gay/straight relationship is rather trivial.

I think what Redberry is saying may not be applicable to you but to other people. Or it's kinda different when aside from being able to relate to a comic character because of the same experiences like no parents (Batman, Storm) or not looking good (Nightcrawler, Anole), intelligent (Beast), etc, you can also relate to the character according to your sexual preference.

#28 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry: I haven't put words into your mouth, rather, you've taken my posts out of context (and possibly to heart). The point is that they are putting gay characters in comics for no reasons. The greatest example of this is what D.C has decided to do with Alan Scott's history.

#29 Posted by jhazzroucher (15580 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry: I haven't put words into your mouth, rather, you've taken my posts out of context (and possibly to heart). The point is that they are putting gay characters in comics for no reasons. The greatest example of this is what D.C has decided to do with Alan Scott's history.

and they also said that it was gonna be an iconic character. Alan scott is not iconic. But maybe they're referring to the "green lantern" title which is iconic. I know what you mean. just like the Storm and BP marriage in which there wasn't really a good foundation why they got married. I agree with you. DC rushed the story of making Alan gay. Unlike Northstar who has been gay for a while.

@TheThe said:

This could work, but in this order they better change the name of team, because the title "black avengers" is racially charged. There are a lot of "all white" teams, but those teams dont have names refering specifically to their ethnicity. Starting from that, i believe everybody should be able to relate to any kind of team or any kind of member(black, latino, gay, female, white, Extraterrial) as soon as the story is good . Sexual orientation, "race" or gender mean nothing when the writer is skilled.

Good point. so what should be the name of the team then?

#30 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

Ridiculous idea.

#31 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Redberry: I haven't put words into your mouth, rather, you've taken my posts out of context (and possibly to heart). The point is that they are putting gay characters in comics for no reasons. The greatest example of this is what D.C has decided to do with Alan Scott's history.

"Now you're treating the gays as if their sexual orientation defines them"

I feel like you're making an assumption about me, and it wasn't my intention at all regarding what you said. In a context of a debate, it was just my statement to tell you to focus on the objectivity of the debate. The debate will become subjective if speakers start to talk about each other instead of the comments at hand. That is all.

I don't take things to heart. It's just a forum debate after all. I stated my opinions calmly without insulting you, so I don't know where you're getting that idea from. I have explained why I said you're putting words into my mouth, and it wasn't meant to be an attack at all.

James Robinson thinks that a reboot of Alan Scott as gay is necessary then it's his decision. Personally, I don't think he's based that decision on monetary gain or creating buzz for the series. he has gay characters a long time ago, and he lives in San Francisco. He seems like a pretty liberal guy. If he thinks making Alan gay is good for Earth-2 then I don't think there is nothing we can do about it. I guess I can see why people think it's unnecessary. You're not wrong to be upset because they change an aspect of who he is. I understand all that. I personally like the change, so I can be biased about the subject. There are two sides on this issue. I guess in the end, if you like the book then support it, if you don't, then just skip over it. I think it's a good book, so people shouldn't let it bother them so much. It's also related to something we talk about before, homosexuality doesn't define a gay person.

#32 Edited by TheThe (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher said:

@royale_with_cheese said:

Good point. so what should be the name of the team then?

The Arrangers : The team cleaning the mess The Avengers have done.

X-elsior : The ones above the X-men

I want the leader to be the great Black Panther . The title i choose for their storyline is " Revenge of X " ;)

#33 Posted by Chaos Burn (1782 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what I don't get about civil rights. Everyone wants equality, but then suggestions like an all black super hero team comes up, how the f*** is that equality? by definition it'd be segregation... it's like when the police force in the UK turned down white applicants because they need to meet a 'coloured quota', giving special treatment to minorities isn't equal.

It should be factually representational, if there was an Avengers based in the North Pole, I wouldn't call them racist for having an all inuit Avengers!

#34 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

on if the Asian Avengers get the same treatment

#35 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12931 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the 70s were over. We don't need any blaxploitation.

#36 Posted by Or35ti (1101 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's a cool idea, why not, but I think if done it should include all the really important Black characters of Marvel like Falcon and War Machine too.

#37 Posted by Or35ti (1101 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually the more I think about it I realize I'd really like to see these characters fight together.

#38 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion said:

on if the Asian Avengers get the same treatment

There are that many of them now?

#39 Posted by MadRooster81 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that having an all black team just adds fuel to the fire of segregation. I don't think we need another us verse them kind of team built on race. Again how would they come together that a team of all black members from the marvel universe would come together and someone like Captain America or Iron Man would just sit on the sidelines? Do they not care of the issue at hand or is it just a race related thing? I don't see a story being strong enough to give us that kind separation. Seems like a major step backwards in the wrong direction. They should fight together, not separate.

#40 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you mean by "would it work"? Would this team be able to exist in the Marvel U? Sure, I don't know about calling them the Black Avengers though. Something along the lines of the Annihilators which is basically the Space Avengers.

If you are wondering if something like this would catch on and make financial and mainstream success, I doubt it. Why? Why there was never a black cast member on Friends? Why do we have movies like Avatar, Last Samurai, John Carter with the hero being white out of a group of non white colored folks & not the other way around? Why is Rhodey or John Stewart good enough to be part of an ensemble but can't keep an ongoing series by himself? America just isn't ready for this kind of stuff.

Unless you make them all gay, an all gay superhero team who happens to be black also. That would go into multiple printings!

#41 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4165 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

When will the black on black violence end?

Okay now back to the original post, isn't Cloak dead?

#42 Posted by TheThe (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

What do you mean by "would it work"? Would this team be able to exist in the Marvel U? Sure, I don't know about calling them the Black Avengers though. Something along the lines of the Annihilators which is basically the Space Avengers.

If you are wondering if something like this would catch on and make financial and mainstream success, I doubt it. Why? Why there was never a black cast member on Friends? Why do we have movies like Avatar, Last Samurai, John Carter with the hero being white out of a group of non white colored folks & not the other way around? Why is Rhodey or John Stewart good enough to be part of an ensemble but can't keep an ongoing series by himself? America just isn't ready for this kind of stuff.

Unless you make them all gay, an all gay superhero team who happens to be black also. That would go into multiple printings!

You mean redneck America ?

#43 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

A few things:

  • Cloak can't exist without Dagger, his white female life partner, so...
  • If there is an all black cast, the majority of the potential audience, that is comic readers, will not watch it because they won't find representations of themselves incorporated into it, which is something we fought (and are still fighting) so hard for.
  • And after all the time Black people have spent fighting for racial equality, I believe this move would be just as bad as an all white Avengers, and so on. We are fighting for racial EQUALITY, not 'positive' racial SEGREGATION, which appears to be the premise of your post.
#44 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah...this is racist...
 
Sorry for being captain obvious

#45 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

A few things:

  • Cloak can't exist without Dagger, his white female life partner, so...
  • If there is an all black cast, the majority of the potential audience, that is comic readers, will not watch it because they won't find representations of themselves incorporated into it, which is something we fought (and are still fighting) so hard for.
  • And after all the time Black people have spent fighting for racial equality, I believe this move would be just as bad as an all white Avengers, and so on. We are fighting for racial EQUALITY, not 'positive' racial SEGREGATION, which appears to be the premise of your post.

this right here. i agree

#46 Posted by Vincent92 (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nighthunter: true, cloak does need dagger to live so i guess she can show up as guest appearences, but i take the story as more of a fun fanservice than 'positive' racial SEGREGATION, there are people who would read the book simply for the idea and there have been plenty of movies that had worked that are domanted by mainly one race ex: the avengers had mainly all white cast but on the actually team had all white characters and nick fury dosen't count since he just put them together.

For a interesting story i would say something like some rebels from afica had gotten hold of some advanced technolgy and started a war against wakanda, black panther dosen't know who is behind the rebels and calls in a few favrs from the avengers, the reason they have black members cause they need less iconic or recongizeable avengers so africa dose not need to feel that america is going to war against them. it is a thought that could use some more editing but it is a start

#47 Posted by TheThe (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

I love how everybody is still whining, while they dont have any problem dealing with all white teams everytime in the comics. Double standards, as usual.

#48 Posted by PowerHerc (83258 posts) - - Show Bio

It could if it sold. Making money is all it would take.

#49 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

It would have to be a What If book, like What If the Civil Rights Movement Never Happened? That would probably be pretty good. Other than that, it would take a pretty big coincidence to have an event that draws heroes together that all happen to be black.

#50 Posted by Teerack (5814 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's kind of stupid when comics make choices with the sole reasoning of what race or religion a person is.

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