My worry with the film.

#1 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers movie is only two months away, guys. Isn't that amazing? lol. Anyway, that's not what this is about.

The trailers have all come out, the hype is totally on, and in just two months, we'll get to see Marvel's best team in action on the big screen. True, while there are a lot of things that can potentially go wrong, the trailers make the film seem like it'll all be ok.

So, I have a concern with something that I've been seeing a lot of on various message boards. I hate to say that I agree with it, but here it goes. Sorry if I offend anyone with what I'm about to rant about, but please keep in mind, that I'm a huge fan of the team and all of the important characters.

The Avengers are supposed to be a powerful team. Granted, they may not be as powerful or well-known as the Justice League, they pack a very powerful punch, especially with heroes like Hulk and Thor. In this movie, you got your major niches recognized: Captain America- the leader with an unbreakable shield, Iron Man- the charismatic businessman with the suit of armor that can and will take down an entire army, Thor- the God of Thunder who has incredible power thanks to his mystical hammer, and the Hulk- a giant, green, rage monster that can tear anything apart with his immense strength.

So far so good, right? Yeah.... here comes the problem.

With the inclusion of these four, your gonna need a female character and someone to provide a sense of comical relief (unless you want Iron Man for that niche, which could totally work in this universe). So they give us Black Widow and Hawkeye. In the comics, they were a part of the team, so that's all fine and good. They never had superpowers (well, Clint did when he was Goliath, but shut up), but they always seemed useful as part of the team. So why does it feel like this isn't the case for the movie? There are dozens of alien ships attacking the city from what we've seen, and no doubt that Thor or Hulk could destroy them with a single thought. Cap is useful because he's a brilliant strategist, and Iron Man speaks for himself, but what I'm really getting at here is, what does a chick with guns and a dude with a bow have to bring to the table?

Batman may not have powers, but he's at least useful on the JLA because he's a billionaire, a genius, the world's best detective, and knows seemingly limitless fighting styles. He's a contributer. But two SHIELD agents wielding weapons that aren't that hard to come by? I don't know. I just don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong, but for right now, I'm worried with how they'll be handled.

So to end this long post, I'll just put it shortly. Hawkeye and Black Widow look like they don't belong with the other Avengers.

Am I being crazy here, or do you guys feel the same way?

#2 Posted by _Zombie_ (10379 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like a valid concern to me. My main concern is that this film is so ambitious that I'm worried that it's going to collapse under its own weight.

I also have two concerns with Scarlett Johannsson as Black Widow. First, from the screens of this film.. she looks almost nothing like Natasha. Second, she sounds nothing like a Russian. I'm all for changes to her mythos, but her being and sounding Russian is kind of an essential part. These might be superficial, but it really bothers me.

I'm also very, very worried about Ruffalo as Banner. He just does not look the part. Now, maybe he can act the role good enough, but I wouldn't know. I've never even heard of the guy before, and I haven't seen any of his movies.

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@ZombieBigfoot: Yeah, the Black Widow thing made me mad too when I first saw Iron Man 2. Since then, I've gotten used to it. And Ruffalo? Well, I'm paying for Hulk, not Banner.

#4 Edited by _Zombie_ (10379 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Yeah, the Black Widow thing made me mad too when I first saw Iron Man 2. Since then, I've gotten used to it. And Ruffalo? Well, I'm paying for Hulk, not Banner.

Opposite for me. I get that it's a team film, but I want to see Banner at least portrayed well.

#5 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@ZombieBigfoot said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Yeah, the Black Widow thing made me mad too when I first saw Iron Man 2. Since then, I've gotten used to it. And Ruffalo? Well, I'm paying for Hulk, not Banner.

Opposite for me. I get that it's a team film, but I want to see Banner at least played well.

Understood. Banner's a great character, and I totally get that the Hulk fans want him to be treated with respect.

#6 Posted by The_Tree (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm in agreement, they'd fit the role of doing more covert things to stop the aliens (like infiltration) but that's pretty much it. For a man and woman pairing that could've provided some comic relief, it would've been good to have Ant-Man and Wasp.

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#7 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

all i got to say is trust in Joss Weadon....he knows what he is doing

#8 Posted by cattlebattle (12668 posts) - - Show Bio

It does look silly when they're formed in a circle and Black Widow is just loading a glock.........watch out now!! 
 
Seriously though, In Iron Man 2 it is shown she carries an arsenal of gadgets...she will probably have more than just a gun, also she will probably have some espionage work to do. As for Hawkeye, I'm sure he will possess some exploding arrows and probably have a sky-cycle, people always love Hawkeye...I'm sure Whedon does too, he'll probably get some cool scenes
 
This is exactly why I love the Avengers, The Justice League can get boring due to 4/7 having generally similar abilities (super strength, invulnerability, yada, yada) The Avengers are always dramatically different in powers and personalities. Its cool that not everyone is a well mannered super hero and they have spies and agents and monsters on the team...keeps it interestig
 
Did You Know...The Avengers trailer set a a record for the most watched in 1 day, 13.7 million or some crap...impressive

#9 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. I get the feeling that Hawkeye and Black Widow are there just to be there, that they will be in the background the whole time. I love both characters, but I don't think those two are going to be very impressive in the movie.

#10 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

I'm in agreement, they'd fit the role of doing more covert things to stop the aliens (like infiltration) but that's pretty much it. For a man and woman pairing that could've provided some comic relief, it would've been good to have Ant-Man and Wasp.

I'm totally with you. At the end of the recent trailer, I was like "If Giant-Man were there, he'd grab that snake-thing by the tail, and swing it across the city."

@Superguy0009e: I do, sir. Whedon's a genius, but I'm just a little worried.

#11 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: True. At least in the trailer, Nick Fury was wielding a bazooka. I think this version of the Avengers, is more so like the Ultimates origin story, whereby you have Natasha and Clint as black ops operatives, whom, I assume, will be doing reconnaissance. In my mind, it was very cringe-worthy, when I compared the two scenes that portrayed Iron Man and Black Widow in action, while watching Iron Man 2; you had Tony Stark being chased down in a dogfight by a compromised War Machine and droids, whereas Natasha was beating down security guard fodder (aka mall cops).

#12 Posted by Vance Astro (91191 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why they couldn't have just waited,made an Ant-Man movie and THEN made the Avengers.Black Widow shouldn't be a founding member of any team of this caliber and Hawkeye better have some awesome trick arrows.

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#13 Posted by Manchine (4161 posts) - - Show Bio

My biggest fear is they might try and do to much with to little time. So far thats been my only fear.

#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91191 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine said:

My biggest fear is they might try and do to much with to little time. So far thats been my only fear.

I think that's why they introduced all the characters before this film came out.
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#15 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

I know they don't fit when you look at that circle-up shot, but I feel like it makes sense and that's the most important thing. Thinking of SHIELD as an agency with skilled operatives doing the heavy lifting (since that's what they'd have before superheroes came out), it makes sense that they'd be there. Not every part of every mission can be solved with brute force and energy blasts, and the other 4 characters can't be everywhere at once. If the group needs access to a secured area but don't want to be seen, if they require someone trained in their job and not just a big gun, Hawkeye and Widow are going to make more sense than anyone else. As long as they're being used well in roles that suit their skills and not pretending to be big dogs too often, I don't think it will be an issue. I understand that sometimes they'll have to be presented as equals (like in the trailer shot) because its all about the look, and that doesn't bug me. I will say though, that if you think about it, Cap isn't that much better than them. Cap is much closer to the SHIELD agents on the team than he is to Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man, but that doesn't seem to cause anyone any issues. But for me, the things I'm worried about are Black Widow posing after every take down like she did in Iron Man 2, and being able to look at Cap in that costume and understand why Thor and Iron Man would respect his leadership.

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#16 Posted by BlackArmor (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

I sort of wish they just had 4 members Cap, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man

#17 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12851 posts) - - Show Bio

Im glad they had Hawkeye in it, but I wish they had some other female member instead of Black Widow

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#18 Posted by The_Tree (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@The_Tree said:

I'm in agreement, they'd fit the role of doing more covert things to stop the aliens (like infiltration) but that's pretty much it. For a man and woman pairing that could've provided some comic relief, it would've been good to have Ant-Man and Wasp.

I'm totally with you. At the end of the recent trailer, I was like "If Giant-Man were there, he'd grab that snake-thing by the tail, and swing it across the city."

I was sort of thinking the same thing, except I was thinking about him ripping it in half. ;{D

I'm hoping that once Ant-Man actually gets made into a movie, it turns out amazing.

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#19 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree: i know that they are trying to make an antman movie...but i dont think it has been going well

#20 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree: Ant-Man has the best chance at being the greatest Marvel movie of all time. Since people are so unfamiliar with the character, they can do all sorts of ridiculous things with him, and they've got nothing to lose for it.

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: That's a completely reasonable thing to worry about. But honestly, I doubt Hawkeye and Black Widow will stick around if there's a sequel and I have no doubt that Whedon will deliver.

We just have to wait until we see the movie to fully judge.

Moderator
#22 Posted by The_Tree (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: I know, I feel it has the potential to be as good as Iron Man.

@Superguy0009e: It's really just been slow, Joe Cornish and Edgar Wright have been working on it slowly but surely, and Edgar's also very busy. I think soon enough we'll eventually get it.

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#23 Posted by Manchine (4161 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Manchine said:

My biggest fear is they might try and do to much with to little time. So far thats been my only fear.

I think that's why they introduced all the characters before this film came out.

Thats the nice thing they don't have to worry about saying hey this is the backstory for INSERT NAME HERE. Although Hawkeye and Black Widow still has not back story yet. Still with this many people it could still be rushed.

#24 Posted by marvel186 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

funny, i never thought of that, maybe the aliens are not robot but an organism,

#25 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

If you expect the film to meet your expectations exact of it, instead of fitting into the Marvel Cinematic Universe (your exactly saying the Ultimate universe is problematic because it isn't exactly the same as 616 when you do this) where it actually is you'll fail yourself and probably have a an issue with it despite how well it is or isn't done. I'm going in with under average expectations so it can surprise me if it wants. They tried to get Ant-Man done. Huge problems there meant that if they waited they and us would be waiting for years.

#26 Posted by Cosmic_Hobo (60 posts) - - Show Bio

I assumed the inclusion of Black Widow and Hawkeye would work similarly to how it did in The Ultimates. They may not have powers, but they are the only actual trained shield agents in the team. Caps a strategist, but only knows the world as it was 70 years ago, so they need someone with modern military knowledge, and while they may not be taking down many spaceships, they're both certainly capable of sneaking into an enemy base and taking out the leaders or planting a bomb:)

As for worries about Ruffalo... maybe? He's a fantastic actor, but he's not really suited to play Banner. Then again, the same goes for every Bana, Norton and Bill Bixby. i don't think there's ever been an onscreen Banner who actually feels true to the comic

#27 Posted by MTHarman (725 posts) - - Show Bio

I used to feel that these Marvel trailers were a hidden sign of disappointment, or maybe something small that I would fear would ruin the movie.

....and I'm baffled on exactly how wrong I was to over-judge something based on both a trailer and most of all, Hollywood.

In my opinion, that's just a small finding that shouldn't ruin the enjoyment from this upcoming film. Unless it has Nicholas Cage in it, then we'll know for sure it's gonna be a doomed movie.

#28 Posted by DarkChris (303 posts) - - Show Bio

I never thought of that. Every team needs some less powerful members, that they have other "powers". I prefer to see them as Fury's eyes and ears. In the possible SHIELD movie, I would love to see them. Now that I think about it, the must made this film. Fury, Dum Dum, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Hill, Coulson!!!

#29 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

It sucks that someone didn't tell Scarlette to use a Russian accent. She's cold war. The problem I'm having is the Hawkeye and Cap didn't get along. From what Ive read and can see in the trailers is the bickering will be between Cap and Stark. I don't think Hawkeye is going to get the screen time he deserves or the proper development he deserves. He's just gonna be Fury's lackey and that's gay. Renner can act. He can act with attitude. Hopefully Wheddon, a comic lover, will know this and do the right thing.

#30 Posted by Walker696 (984 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay after reading all the post I see that I have to bring up that whole thing about Hank beating on Janet(in both the mainstream and ultimate), though we as comic fans eventually forgave him for it, it kind of hard for them to market a wife beater to kids (they got away with Wolverine and and Iron Man), I don't think they want to push it with Hank. While I do want to see him (he is one of my top 3 fav Avengers). I would have prefered Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, or even Wonder Man over either of them. But we have to hope that it will be good and that fit in in the mix. A team can't have all power houses on it, it gets boring after a while (I'm not being biased some of my fav characters are heavy hitters). Lets just hope its good

#31 Posted by The Stegman (23747 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, I feel the same way, judging from the trailers both Hawkeye and Widow just...look like they don't belong, 

#32 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Ms. Marvel would have been a better choice. It doesn't solve the problem with the Smurfette Principle, but at least she would be able to contribute to the main purpose of the Avengers.

Hawkeye doesn't thrill me much either. What can his arrows do that Iron Man's beams, Thor's lighting, or Captain America's shield can't? Truth be told I would rather have had him replaced with a second female character.

Normally Joss can be counted on, so maybe he has some trick up his sleeve for this movie. I would rather have had some cast changes, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt because of Joss.

#33 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@Walker696 said:

Okay after reading all the post I see that I have to bring up that whole thing about Hank beating on Janet(in both the mainstream and ultimate), though we as comic fans eventually forgave him for it, it kind of hard for them to market a wife beater to kids (they got away with Wolverine and and Iron Man), I don't think they want to push it with Hank.

Hank's not a wife beater in 616. It was a stupid artist's mistake that costed his entire reputation. Maybe in the Ultimate Universe he is, but 616's Pym is as good as they come.

#34 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

I think its a reasonable fear to have. Personally, I too have been thinking they'd have some formal shield training. Far as i'm concerned Widow proved her worth in Iron Man 2. Only weak link is Hawkeye.

To make an Avengers movie you HAVE to do it with Iron Man, Thor and the Hulk. Because of the way they marketed his movie Cap's also necessary. Widow got her shot in Iron Man 2. Then Hawkeye's been a crucial member of the team time and again, but he's really the only one I think could've been replaced. However, because of where the X movies are right now there's not exactly a lot of hero choices available. So its right for Marvel to go with a well known comic character, who has a sizable fan base. They simply have to make sure he gets his times to shine in the movie.

#35 Posted by kitsokk (82 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem I have is they put black widow in the movie just because the actor is well know and hot. It doesn't make sense there will be 3 street level heroes in a team of six. No way is that realist 4 them to beat a whole army. I hope black widow and hawkeye have advanced shield tech without it they shouldn't be there. How will there military training help them with loki(he can one shot without any trouble) ?

#36 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: I know the writer intended Hank to accidentally knock her down but the artist for some reason took that to mean knock her the f**k out, but aside from that it happened almost 40 years ago 1 time during Hank's nervous break down, which would actually mean he wasn't legally responsible for his actions any way so all those people who call Pym a wife beater really don't know what they're talking about

#37 Posted by Shanana (53023 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

I don't see why they couldn't have just waited,made an Ant-Man movie and THEN made the Avengers.Black Widow shouldn't be a founding member of any team of this caliber and Hawkeye better have some awesome trick arrows.

I haz to go with my man Vance

#38 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7657 posts) - - Show Bio

The main worry I have for the movie is Ruffalo however I'm looking forward to seeing his take on the character.

#39 Edited by Icon (2055 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing I'm worried about is the story, which is no small thing. The trailers have been explosive and fun but they provide no sense of what the film is about, other than the obvious (a team assembled to stop a threat which may or may not include aliens of some kind). I hope the plot is a little more complex than that.

#40 Posted by marvel186 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

guys I think you all have no idea what halkeye can do. he have an explosive arrow that can destroy every single robots or aliens. Look at Cap he only have his shield which can make him the weakess link but still you guys keep halkeye underrated. Black Widow is like Captain America but instead of shield she have guns. So why under estimate her? But dont get me wrong I love captain america, he may not have super natural strenght and magic or a fancy flying armour but he have great combat skills (just like halkeye and Black widow) but what makes captain america my most favorite character is because of his leadership which Halkeye and black widow lacks.

#41 Posted by Billy Batson (57905 posts) - - Show Bio

Why even have Black Widow? Like she did anything noteworthy in the last films. Then again she's a woman.
BB

#42 Posted by vicioushero (163 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love to see one comic book movie were stick to the original material. I understand they want to update it which is fine, like the beginning of the Iron Man movie where it takes place in the Middle East instead of Vietnam, but come on crossing MU's and changing the team founders. They wouldn't be like let's make a movie about the first Super Bowl, but lets throw Peyton Manning and Bret Favre in as quarterbacks. If they wanted Hawkeye and Widow in it then don't make it an origins story. Not Every Super Hero Movie Needs To Be An Origins Story (wink wink the amazing spider-man)

#43 Edited by Iamlovewithin500 (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like we have a case of Wolverine syndrome again. 
 
Captain America,like Cyke's in the X-films will be outshone by Iron-man .Iron-man will become the center of attention and the leader,while Chris Evans get cast aside. 
 That's what bothers me about team movies,everyone cant  get equal play ,I mean i know there has to be a leader,but usually if one character is bigger or more popular then the said "Leader", the they are often seen as marketing ploy,and there character gets the most development and use ... -_________- 
 
Another thing that I've observed so far, is that  Robert Downy has been getting the most screen shots and camera time in these trailers..Just saying. 
Though his witty one liners are worth it though ... 
 
LOL

#44 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, but that's kinda the point.

#45 Posted by Killahrebel (1 posts) - - Show Bio

What they could do for The Avengers 2 is get rid of Black Widow and put in Wasp and Ant-Man

#46 Posted by CrimsonCake (2673 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye could be usefull.He will most likely use trick arrows like explosive arrows to incapacitate enemies and if their fighting robots he could use EMP arrows.As for black widow...I don't know.

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