Follow

    Avengers

    Team » Avengers appears in 7694 issues.

    The Avengers are Earth's mightiest heroes and foremost super-team... "There came a day, a day unlike any other, when Earth's mightiest heroes found themselves united against a common threat. On that day, the Avengers were born - to fight the foes no single super hero could withstand! Heed the call, then - for now, the Avengers Assemble!"

    Mark Millar's ULTIMATES is really disturbing!

    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    #1  Edited By Squalleon

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P
    I don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice but it definetely is.

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
    FadeToBlackBolt

    23389

    Forum Posts

    8725

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 25

    User Lists: 6

    Well that was the original idea for Millar's side of the Ultimate Universe. To make characters more "realistic" (aka jerkoffs).

    Bendis' side was just to write 616 stories without having to worry about canon.

    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    #3  Edited By Squalleon

    @fadetoblackbolt: How come everyone believes realistic means edgy, dark and borderline psychotic?

    It's definetely a good read and i admire Millar for taking such a strong leap but still....disturbing.
    But no point in making a new universe with the same characters.

    Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
    FadeToBlackBolt

    23389

    Forum Posts

    8725

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 25

    User Lists: 6

    @squalleon said:

    @fadetoblackbolt: How come everyone believes realistic means edgy, dark and borderline psychotic?

    It's definetely a good read and i admire Millar for taking such a strong leap but still....disturbing.

    But no point in making a new universe with the same characters.

    *Shrugs* Just how it's done now. Most people are horribly flawed human beings, so they relate to horribly flawed human beings. Of course, being horribly flawed doesn't mean being a cannibal, but that line is hazy to some writers, I guess.

    Avatar image for w0nd
    w0nd

    6806

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    Betty was attracted to him doing that? I thought she ran from him most of the issue? What issue did I miss?

    and I totally understand Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&. His ideals wouldn't change just because he woke up in...2000's

    I am not saying I defend this series I got bored of the new one to be honest, but it's a different take on them

    Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
    FadeToBlackBolt

    23389

    Forum Posts

    8725

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 25

    User Lists: 6

    @w0nd: Betty is shown after the New York massacre asking if Bruce wanted to have a conjugal visit. This is after he talks about being able to taste the people he ate as the Hulk.

    Avatar image for backflip
    Backflip

    2287

    Forum Posts

    26

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    Mhmm it was definitely a more graphic interpretation. Too often Heroes are portrayed as largely flawless aside from the minor quip, and yes, that's kinda a given as the nature of the market demands that you've got to like the characters (Easiest way is to approve of their actions).

    • But yeah, I've always loved that this Hulk really is a 'monster'. Non of that Frankenstein 'misunderstood' mumble jumble, there are no redeeming qualities to The Hulk, so you really learn to empathize with Banner's struggle.
    • Stay tuned for more on Thor.
    • Janet; if you've got it, flaunt it.
    • Ultimate Cap is a bastard.
    • At least in this universe Hank Pym deserves the aggro he gets unlike 616 which was waaaay blown out of proportion/context.
    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    #8  Edited By Squalleon

    @w0nd:

    In the end she says that after seeing the hulk eats some intenstines she want's to have a conjural visit.

    Cap is the only one i understand why he is like that.

    Iron man is an alcoholic jerk,who manipulates the newspapers to get more fame.

    As i said i don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice. But still the characters are all jerks!

    Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
    FadeToBlackBolt

    23389

    Forum Posts

    8725

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 25

    User Lists: 6

    @squalleon said:

    @w0nd:

    In the end she says that after seeing the hunk eat some intenstines he want's to have a conjural visit.

    Cap is the only one i understand why he is like that.

    Iron man is an alcoholic jerk,who manipulates the newspapers to get more fame.

    As i said i don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice. But still the characters are all jerks!

    Ultimate Iron Man is a better person than 616 Iron Man lol

    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    @backflip said:
    • At least in this universe Hank Pym deserves the aggro he gets unlike 616 which was waaaay blown out of proportion/context.

    QFT

    I think Spiderman hit a pregnant Mary Jane once and no one gave a sh!%.
    Pym has atoned for that a 100 times.

    Avatar image for w0nd
    w0nd

    6806

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    There is a very good reason ultimate ironman is a jerk, but idk if you want to be spoiled. I didn't know about the betty thing. Creepy

    Avatar image for backflip
    Backflip

    2287

    Forum Posts

    26

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    @backflip said:
    • At least in this universe Hank Pym deserves the aggro he gets unlike 616 which was waaaay blown out of proportion/context.

    Pym has atoned for that a 100 times.

    Preach!

    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    #13  Edited By Squalleon

    @w0nd: Indeed she is a pervert :-P
    I don't mind spoilers i don't read much from Ultimate anyway.
    But if you spoil you should put a block so we don't spoil others

    Avatar image for redqueen
    RedQueen

    1199

    Forum Posts

    5890

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 6

    That may be; but it is still one of my favourite runs of all time. I enjoy the vastly different feel of the universe. And how far Millar (in all his work) pushes the boundaries of what the reader finds acceptable within that universe. it's awesome, and slightly disturbing.

    Avatar image for br_havoc
    BR_Havoc

    1756

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    One thing you have to remember is who wrote the book Mark Millar's works are always very dark and gory for no real reason other than because he can make them dark.

    I liked the Ultimates when I read them and there are some truly awesome parts like when Cap fights the Hulk but I found the Ultimate universe to be a phase for me.

    Avatar image for squalleon
    Squalleon

    9994

    Forum Posts

    3193

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 7

    @br_havoc: I think it is the same for me, I can appreciate it but I think I have outgrown the Dark/Edgy phase.

    Avatar image for w0nd
    w0nd

    6806

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #17  Edited By w0nd

    @squalleon: in that case. He is a drunk because his brain is basically running throughout his entire body, his body is more sensitive like nerve endings being touched and poked all the time and he is in constant pain 24/7 so he drinks to remove the pain. I don't get why they couldn't come up with some sort of relaxer though instead of booze but whatever.

    Avatar image for br_havoc
    BR_Havoc

    1756

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    #18  Edited By BR_Havoc

    @br_havoc: I think it is the same for me, I can appreciate it but I think I have outgrown the Dark/Edgy phase.

    I am there with you. When I was a teenager I could read and watch the darkest violent gory movies and comics but as soon as I turned 20 I found myself wanting something more than violence for violence sake.

    Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
    Jonny_Anonymous

    45773

    Forum Posts

    11109

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 32

    #19  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

    I miss Millars Ultimates

    Avatar image for tigerkaya
    tigerkaya

    1433

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #20  Edited By tigerkaya

    While both Hanks have been shown damaged psyche. The difference between the two is 616 Hank accepted the charges for his crimes, had help and eventually came out more improved in Avengers Academy, Wasp and Antman, and West Coast Avengers. Where as Ultimate version is an unrepentant sack of crap who deserves to die. As to Ultimate Earth, looking forward to Galactus wiping it off the face of the multiverse.

    Avatar image for tdk_1997
    TDK_1997

    20456

    Forum Posts

    60093

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 153

    User Lists: 13

    I liked Millar once but after I saw that every story he writes is just the same crap all over again I just stopped even bothering with him.

    Avatar image for veshark
    Veshark

    10499

    Forum Posts

    15829

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P

    I don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice but it definetely is.

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    The first thing one has to realize is that this is the Ultimate Universe, and Ultimates is arguably the most grounded book in the franchise (least till Loeb took over). So the characters and setting are - for lack of a better term - a postmodern incarnation of the classic Avengers. They are different, more modern interpretations of the characters. But that doesn't mean that they're 'a*sholes'.

    The first thing worth mentioning is that the Hulk and Hank are douches, there's no way around that. The former is a disturbed human being with an inferiority complex, and a cannibal and (implied) rapist when he Hulks out. And Hank Pym is, unlike his 616 counterpart, a legit wife-beater. There's no denying that Millar went for darker incarnations for these characters. But the one thing people have to remember is that neither one of them are technically members of the team. Banner started out as a scientist and was booted out once he Hulked out, only brought in as a weapon of last resort. Hank was basically dropped right after his wife-beating (least till Loeb took over). And yeah, Betty has issues.

    But as for the rest of your complaints regarding the team, they're quite inaccurate. First, Thor isn't a lunatic, and not a particularly violent one either. Second, I fail to see how Janet being naked for what, one issue, is disturbing. It wasn't as thought it was done gratuitously, the Ultimates are a realistic take and so her clothes won't grow with her. We get multiple scenes of a naked giant Hank Pym - are those disturbing too?

    Secondly, Ultimate Cap is neither xenophobic nor an asshole. I'm ignoring later inaccurate portrayals of the characters, but the French comment was said in the heat of the moment, and a result of his time as a WWII soldier. I don't believe it accurately reflects the character (um, black friend in Brooklyn, Falcon, Nick Fury, Asian girlfriend with Wasp?). And remember, this is a more real-world take, so naturally Cap will be less 'superhero' and more 'soldier'. He does have a sort of fists-solve-problems mentality, but that in no way makes him a a*shole. Whatever his violent actions, you do get a sense that he's motivated by a good heart. Even when he beats up Hank Pym or drops the Hulk on Kleiser, it's not like he revels in the violence (Read Ultimate Nightmare). He's just willing to make the tough decisions as a leader.

    I just wanted to clarify some inaccurate statements being thrown around. Yes, I will concede that the Ultimates are a more jaded, real-world take on the Avengers and superheroes in general. But I find that to be a strength of the comic, and it seems like your minor nitpicks are obstructing a fuller appreciation of the story. Yeah, these characters are more 21st century incarnations, but they're by no means unrecognizable. And Ult. Cap, Thor, Tony, Wasp, and Hawkeye are all admirable heroes once you look beyond the superficial.

    Avatar image for queencorp15
    QueenCorp15

    1058

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    It is disturbing an wierd but THATS WHY I LOVE IT

    Avatar image for thefool
    TheFool

    106

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 10

    User Lists: 0

    @veshark: You've definitely got some good points. However, I don't think the French thing needs any defending. Let's remember, one of the few wars they definitively won was against themselves.

    Avatar image for remymonroe
    RemyMonroe

    3

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    OK?.....I'm catching up on my comic reading again and was just about to get the ultimate series but, seeing as how im such a big P#$%^ about my beloved hulk and I would mostt certainly cry if my CAPT was a huge AWHOLE. Im gonna stray aways from the realitic side of things lol.

    Avatar image for guardian_of_gravity
    Guardian_of_Gravity

    3000

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Grimdark for the sake of grimdark is not something you half ass, you either fully plunge to WH40k levels or you start realizing that realistic heroes is more likely to mean heroes who make mistakes and have some objectionable viewpoints, not unsympathetic assholes, because said assholes would never be labled heroes in the first place.

    Mark is fond of gross out and shock value, but he can't make likeable characters to save his life.

    Avatar image for sandman_
    SandMan_

    4581

    Forum Posts

    65

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P

    I don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice but it definetely is.

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    Also, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are boning each other.

    Avatar image for oldnightcrawler
    oldnightcrawler

    5695

    Forum Posts

    7029

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 19

    I just re-read the first volume and i have to say.....this series is really disturbing :-P

    I don't have a problem because no point on making the same universe twice but it definetely is.

    • Hulk is completely out of control,a cannibal,a rapist etc.
    • Thor is possibly a lunatic(i believe he is not)
    • Janet is naked for most issues in the second storyline :-P
    • Cap is a patriotic(xenophobic) a$$ho!&.
    • Hank Pym is a repeated wife beater almost killing Janet(his 616 is nearly as damaged as he is)
    • Betty Ross is attracted to the Hulk when he sees him eating intestines!

    Apparently,everyone is a giant a$$ho!& and pretty much completely unrecognizable.

    I can see why people would have a problem with this stuff, as it doesn't really paint any of the characters in the best light (although, I really don't remember Cap' being xenophobic; he follows Fury without issue and ends up dating the Wasp, but it has been quite a while since I read it), but I really liked it.

    I think the idea was to reintroduce the characters to a new generation who might not have been familiar with the classic comics, and Marvel has always tried to distinguish itself from the competition by having characters with more human flaws. Maybe they went a little overboard with it, but just about everything in the first two volumes/ 24 issues actually does have some historical grounding in the classic 616 universe, except maybe the reworking of Thor's origin (which I thought was actually awesome): Hulk was basically a super-powered version of the Jekyll and Hyde story, Hank Pym and the Wasp did have a dysfunctional, abusive relationship, Stark was an alcoholic, Quicksilver was crazy overprotective of the Scarlet Witch, etc..

    Those were the aspects of the characters that made them flawed, but in the original stories (which, really were written for children), these flaws were usually glossed over within a few issues, and rarely had any lasting impact on the status quo of the characters or how they relate to each other. The Ultimates seemed to try to make these things more character defining and realistic. To me, that made it more interesting.

    Growing up reading comics in the 80's and 90's, I always had a hard time getting into the Avengers and it was largely because most of the main characters, especially the big 3 (Cap', Thor, and Iron-man), were just so dull. It seemed like writers didn't know how to make them seem human or interesting. So, for me, it really was the Ultimates that made me first appreciate the big 3; I went into volume one thinking of them as my least favorite Avengers, and came out of it with three new favorites.

    Yeah, they might have gone a bit overboard with Pym and Banner (and, actually everyone by Ultimates 3, seriously, just stop after volume 2), but I still count the first two volumes as among my favorite Avengers stories.

    This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.