Keep your X-men out of my Avengers

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#1 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I would say all of them and that includes Beast.

But top five would be:

Forge

Cyclops

Wolverine

Storm

Rogue

Which members of the X-men should the Avengers exclude from their team and all spinoffs teams.

#2 Posted by Zijuun (854 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops and Wolverine.

Z I J U U N

#3 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4410 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

Personally I would say all of them and that includes Beast.

mm, yeah. Would you include Captain Marvel? how about Namor?

Definitely, there are lots of X-men who shouldn't be Avengers, including (but not limited to):

That's just off the top of my head. Arguably, most X-men should be excluded from the Avengers for being either too young, to unpredictable, too morally grey, or just not really superheroes. Though I doubt many (if any) of them would actually be Avengers anyway.

Then there are characters who maybe shouldn't be excluded so much as just always be more involved with the X-men if they're going to be active heroes at all, like Cyclops, Emma, Storm, Iceman, Kitty, Rachel, Nightcrawler, Polaris, Karma, Moonstar, etc..

Yeah.. that's most of them. Some of them make sense, like Beast or Wolverine (for their sense of duty beyond what they have to the X-men), Havok (who lead a government team of superheroes for years), Sunfire (who was never really an X-man anyway), Rogue (as a longtime reformed hero who's fought along side the Avengers many times, and shares a lot of history with other members of the team).. maybe a few others like Northstar or M, but, yeah, really most of them shouldn't.

I'm glad some of them are on the team, though. It makes the Avengers feel like it represents the MU as a whole more, which, if they're really Earth's mightiest heroes, they should. In my opinion.

#4 Posted by M3th (2075 posts) - - Show Bio

The only one's I can think of is Cyclops and Emma Frost. They could maybe join but... eh whatever's yo.

#5 Posted by phisigmatau (506 posts) - - Show Bio

all of them.

X-Men should never shame themselves by joining the avengers.

#6 Posted by Outside_85 (8525 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a reason to exclude people just because they are X-Men? (save ofc the obvious one like being on the run from the law).

Online
#7 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Just because to limit, no to stop all future members from joining. A mutant can join of course just not an X-man. They are a liability and unreliable plus too much annoying friction between the two teams. Its better to let them be apart and hate each other and with the exclusion law its just hits home how much both sides hate each other.

#8 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4410 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Just because to limit, no to stop all future members from joining. A mutant can join of course just not an X-man. They are a liability and unreliable plus too much annoying friction between the two teams. Its better to let them be apart and hate each other and with the exclusion law its just hits home how much both sides hate each other.

But it's not like they actually do hate each other.

Avengers fans may hate the X-men, and X-men fans may hate the Avengers, but the characters themselves have never really hated each other based on their affiliation. You could maybe give examples of specific characters hating other specific characters, but not for that reason, and certainly not all of them, probably not even most of them.

#9 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

personally i feel that the x-men shouldnt be joining the avengers because the last time i check the x-men save the world, worlds, and the universe just as much the avengers. and i dont see the avenger joining up with the x-men so the x-men shouldnt join them. and as for the ones who are currently on the uncanny team or the regular team, i'd call them traitors but that might seem too harsh. but most specifically that label refers to cannonball and sunspot. they were chilling on the beach talking about how they didnt want to fight on either wolverine or cyclops' teams but as soon they get a call from the avengers they come running to them

#10 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404: Yes and unfortunately they are regrettable and poor choice of members who play nothing more as the comic relief. If their was any other way I'd have them shipped to the Great Lakes team or giving them back to the X-men but knowing you X-Fan type you'd just consider them damage goods with your statement "the ones who are currently on the uncanny team or the regular team, i'd call them traitors".

#11 Posted by lykopis (10753 posts) - - Show Bio

personally i feel that the x-men shouldnt be joining the avengers because the last time i check the x-men save the world, worlds, and the universe just as much the avengers. and i dont see the avenger joining up with the x-men so the x-men shouldnt join them. and as for the ones who are currently on the uncanny team or the regular team, i'd call them traitors but that might seem too harsh. but most specifically that label refers to cannonball and sunspot. they were chilling on the beach talking about how they didnt want to fight on either wolverine or cyclops' teams but as soon they get a call from the avengers they come running to them

I hate the way Cannonball and Sunspot are being depicted. I hate the way a lot of the X-Men are being depicted in the Avengers books.

I don't think anyone should be excluded -- per se -- unless of course, they have legal issues preventing them too. I want to see Avengers taking up a spot in the X-Men. Why is it only one way? If you want to argue only mutants can be an X-Man (Longshot was but whatevs -- they excluded Cloak and Dagger) then my first thought is that's pretty hypocritical but without getting into a debate about it, you can have a couple of Avengers take up teaching position -- mentorships, what have you.

Anyway, just a few thoughts off the cuff.

#12 Edited by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to see an X-Team that is made up of humans and mutants.

#13 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really mind any X-Men being included in the avengers if they're a good characters. X-men joining the Avengers makes a lot more sense than it does vice versa

#14 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

@outside_85: Just because to limit, no to stop all future members from joining. A mutant can join of course just not an X-man. They are a liability and unreliable plus too much annoying friction between the two teams. Its better to let them be apart and hate each other and with the exclusion law its just hits home how much both sides hate each other.

But it's not like they actually do hate each other.

Avengers fans may hate the X-men, and X-men fans may hate the Avengers, but the characters themselves have never really hated each other based on their affiliation. You could maybe give examples of specific characters hating other specific characters, but not for that reason, and certainly not all of them, probably not even most of them.

Certainly One of my personal favorites:

Wolverine and Captain America hating each other

Ms. Marvel and Rogue hate each other

Rogue and Scarlet Witch hate each

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

@lykopis said:

@photowill404 said:

personally i feel that the x-men shouldnt be joining the avengers because the last time i check the x-men save the world, worlds, and the universe just as much the avengers. and i dont see the avenger joining up with the x-men so the x-men shouldnt join them. and as for the ones who are currently on the uncanny team or the regular team, i'd call them traitors but that might seem too harsh. but most specifically that label refers to cannonball and sunspot. they were chilling on the beach talking about how they didnt want to fight on either wolverine or cyclops' teams but as soon they get a call from the avengers they come running to them

I hate the way Cannonball and Sunspot are being depicted. I hate the way a lot of the X-Men are being depicted in the Avengers books.

I don't think anyone should be excluded -- per se -- unless of course, they have legal issues preventing them too. I want to see Avengers taking up a spot in the X-Men. Why is it only one way? If you want to argue only mutants can be an X-Man (Longshot was but whatevs -- they excluded Cloak and Dagger) then my first thought is that's pretty hypocritical but without getting into a debate about it, you can have a couple of Avengers take up teaching position -- mentorships, what have you.

Anyway, just a few thoughts off the cuff.

Hey that sounds like a great idea maybe Headmistress Shadowcat will okay them- Oh wait I forgot she excluded every possible teacher that wasn't a pre-existing X-men member in favor of Storm. She'll probably do the same to them just to have Warbird on the team wasting everyones time and valuable page count.

#15 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4410 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

Certainly One of my personal favorites:

Wolverine and Captain America hating each other

Ms. Marvel and Rogue hate each other

Rogue and Scarlet Witch hate each

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

Like I say, these are examples of specific characters having issue with specific characters.

Rogue and Captain Marvel's history may have included some genuine hatred, but I don't know that any of the other characters actually do/did hate each other. Captain Marvel's long since forgiven Rogue, And Captain America's welcomed Wolverine to the Avengers at least three times since the stories you're talking about; you might as well be saying that Hawkeye hates Iron-man or Cyclops hates Wolverine (which he doesn't). To my mind, you're just pointing out classic character clashes that show how much the characters have changed over time, and still not showing anything that indicates that these clashes are the norm.

And none of these examples show the Avengers hating the X-men or the X-men hating the Avengers; I don't know where you're getting that.

#16 Posted by THORSON (2344 posts) - - Show Bio

wolverine. i'm tired of that guy

#17 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorson:

Agreed.

@tigerkaya said:

Certainly One of my personal favorites:

Wolverine and Captain America hating each other

Ms. Marvel and Rogue hate each other

Rogue and Scarlet Witch hate each

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

Like I say, these are examples of specific characters having issue with specific characters.

Rogue and Captain Marvel's history may have included some genuine hatred, but I don't know that any of the other characters actually do/did hate each other. Captain Marvel's long since forgiven Rogue, And Captain America's welcomed Wolverine to the Avengers at least three times since the stories you're talking about; you might as well be saying that Hawkeye hates Iron-man or Cyclops hates Wolverine (which he doesn't). To my mind, you're just pointing out classic character clashes that show how much the characters have changed over time, and still not showing anything that indicates that these clashes are the norm.

And none of these examples show the Avengers hating the X-men or the X-men hating the Avengers; I don't know where you're getting that.

I choose the Cap and Wolverine because thats how I viewed them and how their personalities to one another should stay as. One with more stricter moral code to the anti hero who hates everyone in the Marvel U not counting the X-men. As to Ms. Marvel and Rogue I find their are better off distancing themselves from one another for Carol when it comes to Rogue should always have the "All wounds can never heal" and thats what makes it grand. After all Rogue still acts as if she just left the Brotherhood I doubt when Carol comes to visit it will erupt with arguments and screaming. I gave you the members that hate one another or the versions I find should stay hateful. Other examples of X-men and Avengers hating each other the majority of the X-students hating them for working for the government. Also the parts when in the first X-men vs Avengers had them fighting over each for Magneto. With the Avengers finding them nothing more than outlaws for protecting a former terrorist and the X-men seeing them as nothing more than government dogs. Really it amazes me that marvel even beleives they can possibly work together with such different morals. They have personalties that just clash too much against one another.

#18 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4410 posts) - - Show Bio

I choose the Cap and Wolverine because thats how I viewed them and how their personalities to one another should stay as. One with more stricter moral code to the anti hero who hates everyone in the Marvel U not counting the X-men. As to Ms. Marvel and Rogue I find their are better off distancing themselves from one another for Carol when it comes to Rogue should always have the "All wounds can never heal" and thats what makes it grand. After all Rogue still acts as if she just left the Brotherhood I doubt when Carol comes to visit it will erupt with arguments and screaming. I gave you the members that hate one another or the versions I find should stay hateful. Other examples of X-men and Avengers hating each other the majority of the X-students hating them for working for the government. Also the parts when in the first X-men vs Avengers had them fighting over each for Magneto. With the Avengers finding them nothing more than outlaws for protecting a former terrorist and the X-men seeing them as nothing more than government dogs. Really it amazes me that marvel even beleives they can possibly work together with such different morals. They have personalties that just clash too much against one another.

So, basically, you're saying that characters should never change their views, that they should remain in the same static roles that they were in 30 years ago and not deviate from that, regardless of what they've experienced in all that time?

I gotta say, I think that's bound to stifle a lot of storytelling potential, for no apparent reason.

#19 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorson said:

wolverine. i'm tired of that guy

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#20 Edited by phisigmatau (506 posts) - - Show Bio

personally i feel that the x-men shouldnt be joining the avengers because the last time i check the x-men save the world, worlds, and the universe just as much the avengers. and i dont see the avenger joining up with the x-men so the x-men shouldnt join them. and as for the ones who are currently on the uncanny team or the regular team, i'd call them traitors but that might seem too harsh. but most specifically that label refers to cannonball and sunspot. they were chilling on the beach talking about how they didnt want to fight on either wolverine or cyclops' teams but as soon they get a call from the avengers they come running to them

yeah man preach bro

#21 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorson said:

wolverine. i'm tired of that guy

Were all tired of him he should either have his brain switch by Sabertooth or be killed off already like they did Parker. Seems only fair and reasonable.

#22 Edited by God_Spawn (37560 posts) - - Show Bio

Keep your X-Men out of my Avengers and then you list Cyclops and Forge?

I'm not even sure what you're asking by mentioning those two.

Moderator
#23 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Thread's message is still the same involving exclusion I just changed the thread name to be more...... noticing.

#24 Edited by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

all of them.

X-Men should never shame themselves by joining the avengers.

The X-men are not worthy of the Avengers, they don't even deserve to clean the Avengers mansion bathroom.

#25 Posted by THORSON (2344 posts) - - Show Bio

all of them. especially wolverine. he is a spotlight hog.

#26 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau said:

all of them.

X-Men should never shame themselves by joining the avengers.

The X-men are not worthy of the Avengers, they don't even deserve to clean the Avengers mansion bathroom.

#27 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

#28 Posted by darkbeam (2196 posts) - - Show Bio

Both the Avengers and the X-men can be jerks at times.

#29 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbeam: that they can be and because of that including their differing views on the political view. It does me proud to say that neither team should team up or form a united team together for they are opposites to one another.

#30 Posted by darkbeam (2196 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya: I don't want them always teaming up either but if their world is at stake they may have too.

#31 Posted by youmessinwithme (1184 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine beast and scarlet witch have been there for longer than half the Avengers and have history with the team having them their I have no problem with and it would make sense to have members of the mutant populace to join with the avengers for PR and such however the teams should stay distinctly different, I don't like having such a core member of the X-men for so long being added like rogue and I wouldn't like it if other specific X-charters like Storm or cyclops were to show up either.

#32 Edited by Squares (5216 posts) - - Show Bio

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

...But the Scarlet Witch's hair doesn't look like that! It never has! What the hell, artist?

#33 Posted by PowerHerc (82612 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

#34 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11303 posts) - - Show Bio

With the exception of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, no mutant should be on an Avengers team. That's just my opinion.

#35 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbeam: Please, as if they'd unite under one large threat where were the X-men when Kang bombarded Washington D.C.

Were they too busy complaining why the Avengers didn't come save Genosha.

@arturocalakayvee: Now your just being crazy, mutants should be welcomed to the team, its those filthy X-men members (the long standing members anyway) that should be barred from joining.

#36 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11303 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya: If you're a mutant, you should be in the X-Men. If you're a boring Super-Hero, join the Avengers.

#37 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: Well what if the mutant doesn't want to be a boring X-men various races have joined the Avengers while X-men are a stagnant lot that only accepts mutants talk about a bunch of hypocrites.

#38 Edited by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya said:

@arturocalakayvee: Well what if the mutant doesn't want to be a boring X-men various races have joined the Avengers while X-men are a stagnant lot that only accepts mutants talk about a bunch of hypocrites.

Interesting

photo sw50sw8sw578.gif

#39 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:
@tigerkaya said:

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

...But the Scarlet Witch's hair doesn't look like that! It never has! What the hell, artist?

Better question is, "Wheres Rogue's face!!?"

#40 Posted by Squares (5216 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:
@tigerkaya said:

another personal favorite everyone hates each other except Thor

...But the Scarlet Witch's hair doesn't look like that! It never has! What the hell, artist?

Better question is, "Wheres Rogue's face!!?"

I've read too many Deodato comics to ask that question anymore. In fact, I barely notice missing faces now.

#41 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4410 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

I liked Wolverine as a New Avenger, and I like his current role in Uncanny Avengers, but those both seem like saying I like him as an Avenger because he seems ill-suited to the task.

Beast is obviously the best exception to the rule, but, while I mostly agree, I do think there are others. Sunfire is, I think, a good example of a character who just feels more like an Avengers character than an X-man. I don't even think he technically ever was an X-man anyway, but certainly he's a classic marvel superhero. What are your thoughts on him being an Avenger?

#42 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

This. Never been a fan of mutants in the Avengers - but these three are the exceptions due to their Avengers history.

#43 Posted by PowerHerc (82612 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

I liked Wolverine as a New Avenger, and I like his current role in Uncanny Avengers, but those both seem like saying I like him as an Avenger because he seems ill-suited to the task.

Beast is obviously the best exception to the rule, but, while I mostly agree, I do think there are others. Sunfire is, I think, a good example of a character who just feels more like an Avengers character than an X-man. I don't even think he technically ever was an X-man anyway, but certainly he's a classic marvel superhero. What are your thoughts on him being an Avenger?

I don't like the character period, so I wouldn't like him as an Avenger, either.

#44 Posted by PowerHerc (82612 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

This. Never been a fan of mutants in the Avengers - but these three are the exceptions due to their Avengers history.

We agree again. :)

#45 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

This. Never been a fan of mutants in the Avengers - but these three are the exceptions due to their Avengers history.

We agree again. :)

*fistbump*

#46 Posted by PowerHerc (82612 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

This. Never been a fan of mutants in the Avengers - but these three are the exceptions due to their Avengers history.

We agree again. :)

*fistbump*

*fistbump*

#47 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to see an X-Team that is made up of humans and mutants.

Seriously, why can't there be any human X-Men? They are trying to work for peace with humans, so why can't humans get involved?

#48 Posted by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

@veshark said:

@powerherc said:

I like the Beast as an Avenger and of course the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both all-time great Avengers with X-roots.

That said, no other X-Man has seemed suited to be an Avenger - Wolverine included.

This. Never been a fan of mutants in the Avengers - but these three are the exceptions due to their Avengers history.

We agree again. :)

*fistbump*

*fistbump*

photo Fistbump.jpg

#49 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: Because their hypocrites might as well call them The Brotherhood at least it's honest.

#50 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: I find Sunfire is the more appropriate choice to join over say Rogue, Havok and Wolverine.

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