Guys dont you think avengers movie Thor is TOO weak???

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#51 Posted by TheGodofThunder (664 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he was. He was pretty impressive actually. While the thor movie showed his abilities with mjolnir, avengers showed that even without mjolnir, he could still manhandle his opponents. The only reason Hulk hit thor was because thor stopped dodging and was trying to reason with him. Hulk has to be shown a little stronger than thor because that is all hulk has. But anyone who isnt hulk obsessed could see that thor was portrayed as the most powerful and would've easily handled hulk had he been fighting and not trying to contain him.

#52 Posted by GunGunW (1020 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@k4tzm4n said:

No, he wasn't too weak and here's why:

  • Broke out of a cell meant to contain the Hulk
  • Able to hold back an overhead strike from Hulk.
  • He was still more powerful than Iron Man at 400% (was crushing his armor, a headbutt sent him flying)
  • One uppercut with mjlonir launched Hulk.
  • Used lightning to block the entire portal entrance, and in turn, destroy multiple enemies.

Just because Whedon didn't have him solo everything doesn't mean he wasn't powerful.

#53 Posted by Thorite (20 posts) - - Show Bio

I could care less about how 'powerful' Thor is. I care about how strong he is because from day 1 he was first and foremost a melee character. I'm totally ok with Hulk being 'a bit' stronger than Thor. If Thor appears 75% - 90% as strong as the Hulk I'm having a good day. At that level, combined with the striking power of Mjolnir Thor should be able to stand toe-to-toe with Hulk in pure melee terms and likely have an edge due to 1000 years of fighting experience. But I'm just not seeing that. I'm seeing Thor at maybe 50% of Hulks strength (before Hulk gets angrier). I'm seeing Hulk take Thor's best Mjolnir shot and jump up angrier and, of course, stronger. I believe that I saw Thor past the point of resisting when Hulk 1 hand picks him up. I'm seeing Thor needing to jump out of the way of bullets while Hulk stands and roars at them. And I just can't picture for a second Thor taking down a crocodile ship the way Hulk did or any way that didn't involve his 'all-powerful' lightening. I see Thor punching Iron Man in the head and Iron Man taking it standing; he should have at least been knocked on his a$$. Yes, Thor's headbutt > Iron Man's headbutt, but Iron man took exactly zero seconds to recover so it couldn't have phased him at all (400% power makes Iron Man more durable????). Can you picture for a second Iron Man taking a standing punch from Hulk? Or taking zero seconds to recover from a Hulk headbutt. So yes, Thor is waaaaayyyy too weak. So weak that the 50 year Hulk-Thor rivalry is effectively over as Thor simply cannot hang with him (without calling upon his all powerful lightening - what is he, a Wizard?). Maybe if Thor fans are lucky the next 5 years can be an Iron Man - Thor rivalry,...until Iron man gets his new fancy extremis armour. Too weak to call himself a 'God of Thunder'.

#54 Posted by Harlekin (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

No, he wasn't too weak and here's why:

  • Broke out of a cell meant to contain the Hulk
  • Able to hold back an overhead strike from Hulk.
  • He was still more powerful than Iron Man at 400% (was crushing his armor, a headbutt sent him flying)
  • One uppercut with mjlonir launched Hulk.
  • Used lightning to block the entire portal entrance, and in turn, destroy multiple enemies.

Just because Whedon didn't have him solo everything doesn't mean he wasn't powerful.

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@Kallarkz said:

The majority of Thor fans (including some of the more delusional ones on this site) only enjoy Thor's character for his powers. He and Storm deserve better fans.

Agree with everything here.

#55 Posted by Thorite (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow ok. Looks like the jury has spoken based on @k4tzm4n's post. So I'm just a crazy Thor fan, I get it. @k4tzm4n has a slam-dunk case and everybody agrees that none of the following makes Thor look physically weaker than concensus expects: 1. Thor does need to get out of the way of bullets. 2. Iron Man shouldn't fall down from a direct head shot from Thor. 3. Iron Man shouldn't be hurt in any way by a headbutt from Thor. 4. Thor needs 2 hands to block Hulks 1-hand (anyone see BRB in Planet Hulk? or Hulk-Thor in Ultimate Avengers) 5. Thor with Hammer after a short (historically speaking) fight with the Hulk is 1-hand manhandled by the Hulk.......and this is all we expect from Stan Lee's #1 God-hero? And,...... Thor the god,...Thor the arrogant,...and Thor's power level are completely separate in the building of his character. Face-palm. I give up. Obviously he broke a glass box so he must be powerful.

#56 Posted by 80sBaby (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thorite: 1. Thor has been shown to not be bullet-proof in the comics for a looooong time now so that wasn't anything new. 2. Depends on how hard Thor hit him. Did you know that Ironman has beaten Thor (as well as Hulk and Silver Surfer) in the comics? He's not some chump. And, when Thor was angry, he casually swatted Tony away like it was nothing. Did you miss that part? 3. Did you not se that huge dent in Tony's helmet from the headbutt? Or notice the difference in how Thor was affected by IM's head-butt as opposed to how Tony went flying? 4. Yes, a fully enraged Hulk IS stronger than Thor and is typically shown as such in the comics. Your percentages are pure speculative and can't possibly be calculated, especially when we know Thor was holding back. 5. Yes, he was man-handled. Have you not seen comic Thor vs. Hulk when Thor doesn't have his hammer? He gets WORKED! This, again, is nothing new.

#57 Posted by Thorite (20 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Whaaat? He's currently not bullet proof in the comics? You're kidding right? I mean, there was always that 1960s comic where Thor hid in a bush because a bunch of guys had guns, but that was right up there with the Hulk getting chocked unconscious by a snake in terms of consistency. Other than a couple of silly low end showings Thor has tanked things much more powerful than guns. Thanos' eyebeams, Silver Surfer's power cosmic, Hulk's punches,... 2. Iron Man's no chump but I don't think that I've ever seen or heard of Iron Man beating Thor in any type of media. Please direct me to such. If you've seen the Ultimate Avengers DVD (2006 ish) Thor-Iron Man's relative power levels are portrayed in what I consider consistent with the 60s,70,80s,90s comics. Iron Man's a top quartile Avenger, but the gap is very large. 3. Yes, Thor swatted Iron Man with his hammer and generally banged up his armour. Thank goodness for that. I actually loved the fight between them and the movie in general. Just pointing out that a Hulk-Iron Man fight wouldn't have lasted more than a few seconds. 4. The issue is that Thor has, for 4 out of 5 decades, been every bit as good as Hulk in melee combat. Some of the time he has been as strong or stronger than the Hulk (60s/70s). Some of the time he has been almost as strong as the Hulk but combined with fighting skills and Hammer he remains equal or possibly greater in melee (80s, 90s and even as recent as Hulk Annual 2001). In the last decade or so Thor is written as an absolute chump and Hulk appears to be far, far stronger than Thor to the point of no contest: Hulk vs Thor DVD, RULK vs Thor, Avengers EMH, Hulk-Let the battle begin (where Hulk does that 'why are you hitting yourself?' game that an adult can do to a child. All of these recent showings are a major departure from the past. Which, of course, is Marvel's right to do. Still if they're going to change his powers (not strong anymore, just powerful) I really feel that they should just do a complete redo of the character, like they did in the Ultimates. If Hulk's going to be way more powerful and Iron Man's going to be nearly as powerful, then stop making Thor a god. Stop making him sound superior as he gets his a$$ handed to him over and over and over again. This thread has the actual comic scans for most of the Hulk-Thor confrontation over the years without any fanboy biased, out-of-context conclusions that most other sites always have. http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/citizenbane/thor-and-hulk-what-really-happened-and-what-would-really-happen/87-79889/ So, based on this, I do somewhat dispute your claim that Thor gets man-handled without his hammer. Yes, bit by bit, Thor steadily loses ground until the conclusion of the fight is obvious. But in 4 of 5 decades he's never been past the point of resisting like he was in the Helicarrier battle. So yes, Thor losing like this to Hulk is 'new' at least under the lens of 5 decades of Marvel comics.

#58 Posted by Achillies1 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

in the first Thor movie early on when he was fighting the frost giants, he did some kind of lightning strike which cause an massive earthquake, then they seemed to have toned down his strength to just flipping cars in the avengers movie, I mean he probably would have seemed too powerful compared to the rest of them otherwise, apart from the hulk, honestly just the two of them would have done the job, but yeah Thor was weaker or was holding back despite looking beat to hell in the avengers.

(causing an earthquake - to - flipping a car over )

#59 Posted by Oscars94 (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

In the Thor TDW prelude comic , it mentioned Thor being weakened by Odin's dark energy when he was sent to earth to find Loki during the time of the Avengers movie.

#60 Posted by Fifthchild (642 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscars94 said:

In the Thor TDW prelude comic , it mentioned Thor being weakened by Odin's dark energy when he was sent to earth to find Loki during the time of the Avengers movie.

Going somewhat off memory here but I cant say thats accurate. IIRC it was stated that Odin was not sure Thor would survive the process but he wasnt stated to be weakened afterwards and it certainly wasnt implied that he was in a weakened state during his time on Earth.

#61 Edited by Oscars94 (2820 posts) - - Show Bio
#62 Posted by MideonNViscera (404 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just thinking today that he doesn't seem nearly interested enough in beer.

#63 Posted by MasterKungFu (4429 posts) - - Show Bio

IDK about TOO weak but he was certainly weaker than his solo movie versions. Thor TDW > Thor 2011 > Avengers Thor

#64 Posted by Thorverine (453 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I imagine Thor will have a run like Harry Potter. His powers will continue to increase in his solo movies after the Avengers trilogy is finished.

#65 Posted by THORSON (3042 posts) - - Show Bio

yes and no.

it makes sense to depower him when he is with a team but at the same time i'd love to see THOR go bezerk.

#66 Edited by name_already_chosen (181 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the standard "niche" problem that occurs in team movies. When several characters share the same power niche or talents niche, all but one of them get de-emphasized so that there is only one person per niche.

In this case, since The Hulk's only niche is punching things out, Thor's strength ends up de-emphasized in the film. However, Iron Man is the hero of the film and gets priority, and his two niches are flying and zapping (with his pulsar beams), so Thor's flying and zapping (with lightning) also end up de-emphasized in the film. Captain America has only leadership as a niche now that Black Widow has taken his other niche of reading people (as when she tricks Loki into revealing his plan), so Thor's warrior wisdom ends up de-emphasized as well. With his niches of strength, flying, zapping, and warrior wisdom de-emphasized, all Thor is really left with is his Asgardian heritage, which is why his spotlight moments in the film center almost exclusively on trying to redeem Loki and on looking godly while summoning the lightning.

Joss Whedon clearly shows favoritism for The Hulk/Banner, Iron Man/Stark, and The Black Widow/Romanov in the film, and he clearly doesn't have quite as much of an idea what to do with Captain America/Rogers and Thor/Blake; one wonders whether he will know what to do with Hawkeye/Barton.

There's also, of course, the truism that it's just not safe to be a god in any of Whedon's projects, as Whedon is an atheist who takes amusement in knocking down gods a peg (and does so in a way which amuses his audience as well). It's unlikely that poor Thor will ever appear as impressive in a Whedon film as he does in films with other creative individuals at their helms.

#67 Posted by Jayc1324 (15648 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. It didn't hurt the movie, but Thor should have stomped iron man. But like I said, it didn't take away from the movie

#68 Posted by Z3RO180 (7533 posts) - - Show Bio

Dear god just drop it

Online
#69 Posted by King_of_the_Anonymous (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Still talking about this? Sheesh. We'll still be talking about MoS a decade from now then.

#70 Posted by name_already_chosen (181 posts) - - Show Bio

Pun intended?

@z3ro180 said:

Dear god just drop it

#71 Posted by name_already_chosen (181 posts) - - Show Bio

We're still complaining about Phantom Menace 15 years later, and I still read complaints about the campy Adam West Batman TV series nearly half a century after its cancellation.

Welcome to geekdom; we have long memories, and we don't acknowledge an expiration date on thought and conversation.

Still talking about this? Sheesh. We'll still be talking about MoS a decade from now then.

#72 Posted by King_of_the_Anonymous (82 posts) - - Show Bio
#73 Edited by name_already_chosen (181 posts) - - Show Bio
@king_of_the_anonymous said:

I know, it was a joke.

Yay! You have restored my faith in online humanity. (A couple of days ago, I read a similar complaint to yours in a thread about MoS -- and the poster was tragically serious about it! So it's a cautious faith in online humanity you have restored.)

#74 Posted by King_of_the_Anonymous (82 posts) - - Show Bio
#75 Posted by name_already_chosen (181 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Posted by Marcusmdc (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@shazam117: yeah but his toe to toe with the Hulk was not what it has been in the comics or the cartoon. In the comics they have embraced and locked arms with neither one able to move the other while the Hulk was enraged with his strength growing. They made Thor weaker...they made Hulk look stronger and he isnt. In that fight Thor even jumped out of the way of the bulletd being fired from the fighter jet...

#77 Posted by 4U2NV (145 posts) - - Show Bio

Kind of

#78 Posted by BlueBeetle1 (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

#79 Edited by popcultureshaman (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure it's shown in a tie in comic that Thor was weakened during The Avengers due to Odin using "dark energy" to send him to Earth cause he crash lands pretty hard, (again!) and Sif wonders if he survived due to his weakened state. TV Tropes character page for Thor in the MCU has more info.

#80 Posted by Warhammer (62 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought it was O........................K

#81 Edited by Cgoodness (8490 posts) - - Show Bio

What has he shown to suggest hes weak, Solod a bunch of SHIELD agents while depowered, matched Huk in strength, took out half of Lokis army by himself, wrecked the Destroyer, and stood up against a infinity gem. Plus Thor 3 is looking to have Surtur in it. The only thing id say thats bad about him is his speed

#82 Edited by popcultureshaman (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@cgoodness: true, if his fight with IM showed anything, it's that he's got the strength and sheer power, but IM's got the speed and versatility.

#83 Posted by Fallschirmjager (19569 posts) - - Show Bio

He's clearly the most powerful all round Avenger (Hulk may be more physically but he doesn't have the flexibility).

Who cares if he's not up to the level of his comic version? Its all relative. Its not necessary to have movie characters do silly stuff. Any yes, any time you start talking "planetary" feats, you are talking incredibly silly concepts.

#84 Posted by Fifthchild (642 posts) - - Show Bio

He's clearly the most powerful all round Avenger (Hulk may be more physically but he doesn't have the flexibility).

Who cares if he's not up to the level of his comic version? Its all relative. Its not necessary to have movie characters do silly stuff. Any yes, any time you start talking "planetary" feats, you are talking incredibly silly concepts.

Dont mean to stir things up but in the MCU it seems Hulk is intended to be at least as powerful as Thor, going by statements from Whedon et al. Apparently thats why we see the Hulkbuster armour/fight - the Avengers need something to try and stop a beserk Hulk.

That said, for the most part they are supposed to clearly be the big guns (a la the scene where they take down the Leviathan together) and theres still a fair amount of ambiguity.

#85 Edited by Fallschirmjager (19569 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: considering Thor took out more Chitauri forces with 1 lightening shock then all of the other Avengers combined, it doesn't really matter what Whedon says. Thor also took on a stone user by himself which required another MCU team to do so (not that either were well written fights but w.e)

not really the point of my post anyways. Thor's plenty powerful.

#86 Posted by THORSON (3042 posts) - - Show Bio

THOR's new name should be "Thrownunderthebus"

#87 Posted by THORSON (3042 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk has to be shown a little stronger than thor because that is all hulk has.

You made an interesting quote. I never thought of it like that.

#88 Posted by Fifthchild (642 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: considering Thor took out more Chitauri forces with 1 lightening shock then all of the other Avengers combined, it doesn't really matter what Whedon says. Thor also took on a stone user by himself which required another MCU team to do so (not that either were well written fights but w.e)

not really the point of my post anyways. Thor's plenty powerful.

As an attack with a wide area of effect Thor's lightning is far more suitable to take out a ton of lesser characters. That doesnt necessarily make him more powerful though.

By Thor taking on "a stone user" I assume you mean his melee fight with Loki? Thats not exactly the point of reference I would be using to argue that Thor is more powerful than Hulk...

Anyway I agree that Thor is plenty powerful in the MCU.

#89 Edited by Fallschirmjager (19569 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: I meant Malekith with the Aether. He took him on by himself. It took the entire GotG team to fight Ronan and they never really even fought him. (both ultimately won by PIS, but at least Thor went toe to toe with Malekith for quite some time)

but since we agree, no need to continue debating lol

#90 Posted by Fifthchild (642 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: I meant Malekith with the Aether. He took him on by himself. It took the entire GotG team to fight Ronan and they never really even fought him. (both ultimately won by PIS, but at least Thor went toe to toe with Malekith for quite some time)

but since we agree, no need to continue debating lol

Ah I had forgotten that. Yeah that was definitely a great Thor showing.

#91 Edited by Helicoprion (674 posts) - - Show Bio

next year we might see something better of Thor in Avengers 2 than Avengers 1

#92 Posted by Draksis (53 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Thor movie was AWESOME. I didn't had a problem with it. Neither with the Avengers or X-Men.

#93 Posted by TheMasterofMagnetism (29 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought it was good. Well, that's me. Not everyone agree.

#94 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (7636 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't have any problems with it.

#95 Posted by hirev_starman (1169 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes he seems a bit weak but only time will tell when we will see his true powers. If anything he is holding back and once Ragnarok gets released I think we might be seeing a new more improved Thor One that is not going to stalemate Iron Man or even let himself get handed that easily, One that is not going to get trounced by the Hulk, and one who is not going to let Loki get the best of him.

#96 Posted by HaveAtThee (680 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Hulk and Thor have been toned down for the films. Just look at the roster around them. The Iron Man armor is pretty powerful but compared to Thor and Hulk he wouldn't last more than a few rounds. I thought Whedon found a nice balance for both. Both Thor and Hulk had moments in the film where they knocked out entire flying ships on their own and made mincemeat of the cannon fodder soldiers. If they were portrayed in the films as they are in the comics, there would be no need for Cap, Widow and Hawkeye really. In Thor's skirmishes with Iron Man and Hulk they were exactly that, skirmishes. None of the characters really wanted to "kill" the other (except maybe Hulk as he was starting to get pissed off). Thor was annoyed with Iron Man and was trying to contain Hulk rather than really hurt him. I think Whedon portrayed a much more effective Thor than Alan Taylor did in "The Dark World" (where Thor actually did look like a chump).

Until the Avengers roster adds other powerful characters (Scarlet Witch and maybe Dr. Strange), Hulk and Thor will have their moments but to a limit. Otherwise their teammates will look useless.

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