Falcon: Dull as dishwater

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#1 Posted by FuriousWeasel (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't get me wrong I like Falcon and am looking forward to him being in the new Cap movie but I'm a bit stumped as to why he was chosen to be the new main team member in the new Avengers cartoon. Falcon works best as a street level crime fighter or partnered with someone like Cap. Out of all the Avengers with their varied powers and skill sets they could have chosen why would they pick a character who's not that great. (He has some fighting ability and can fly)

#2 Posted by CheeseSticks (2452 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Falcon is pretty.. bad as a character

#3 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

Attach a beak and he can peck someone to death.

#4 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

In all seriousness, I do agree with the OP. Firstly, Falcon isn't some newbie rookie. It's an obvious minority ploy, imo, and does nothing to serve the character. Secondly, yeah, Falcon is more interesting as Cap's partner or as a member of a team. The former being the angle I'm hoping they go with for Cap 2. Really hope that Falcon is a respectable equal to Cap, a scientist and a soldier, in Winter Soldier.

#6 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup.

If they're going to push him to the front in the cinematic universe, they really need a good hook for him.

#7 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the push that Marvel is doing. I like the SHIELD agent history he has now too.However his abilities are never done consistently. The way he is depicted in the new Avengers cartoon is how he should always be, in terms of abilities.

  • He's a SHEILD agent. So he has some kind of combat prowess and intelligence
  • He has a power suit that creates energy constructed wings granting him flight
  • He can use those energy constructs, from his wings, as projectiles by firing feather like constructs at opponents
  • He can use those energy constructs as swords

Those should become the new default for him. The new Avengers show does make him out to be a rookie but they got his abilities down packed

The bad thing is, he is normally just a guy who can

  • fly by using wings made of some kind of cloth? feather like substance?
  • he has telepathic like to avian life forms

#8 Posted by ColonelRunAway (370 posts) - - Show Bio

...I'm on the top three list for Falcon fans? That's the most depressing achievement ever.

Okay, let's just talk 616 here:

First off, on the powers, there's also his ability to telepathically communicate with birds. Just think about that. Virtually anyone outdoors, or near a window, and he has dozens of untraceable, unsuspected cameras he can turn on them at any time. At which point he can extract to that location at upwards of 120 MPH and use his training to fight off dozens of guys single-handedly.

Or, y'know, he could just command his army of birds to attack Hitchcock style.

As for personality, he was just some guy going through rough times when he got tortured by the goddamn Red Skull and came out with a new lease on life. He battles terrorist cells and Doctor Doom and s***, and then goes back to his day job, trying to give the down-on-their-luck of Harlem their own chance. The man once found gangsters trying to take Ronald Reagan hostage, and not only did he talk them into letting him go, he talked Reagan into hearing out them out ten seconds after he'd had a literal gun to his head.

And what does he get for it all? He's the Avenger nobody cares about. He's treated like he's only good for Captain America's sidekick.

Yeah, a lot of the time he's boring. But it's because hardly any writers take advantage of what's right there.

#9 Posted by FuriousWeasel (90 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson said:

I like the push that Marvel is doing. I like the SHIELD agent history he has now too.However his abilities are never done consistently. The way he is depicted in the new Avengers cartoon is how he should always be, in terms of abilities.

  • He's a SHEILD agent. So he has some kind of combat prowess and intelligence
  • He has a power suit that creates energy constructed wings granting him flight
  • He can use those energy constructs, from his wings, as projectiles by firing feather like constructs at opponents
  • He can use those energy constructs as swords

Those should become the new default for him. The new Avengers show does make him out to be a rookie but they got his abilities down packed

The bad thing is, he is normally just a guy who can

  • fly by using wings made of some kind of cloth? feather like substance?
  • he has telepathic like to avian life forms

I liked the 'Holographic wings' angle to his costume in the comics.

#10 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonelrunaway:

Your post makes a scarily convincing argument that Falcon should have a breakdown and become a supervillain.

#11 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

falcon is a loser token black guy character who should just die.

#12 Posted by ColonelRunAway (370 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson: The energy wings and shooting energy feathers have been in the comics for almost a decade now. They've never been done as swords before far as I know, but it's been established that they can take different shapes, so it's not a huge stretch. And his combat abilities go back to the 70s, before he even had wings.

#13 Edited by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonelrunaway said:

@blkson: The energy wings and shooting energy feathers have been in the comics for almost a decade now. They've never been done as swords before far as I know, but it's been established that they can take different shapes, so it's not a huge stretch. And his combat abilities go back to the 70s, before he even had wings.

Yeah I know that. I'm just saying his abilities aren't written consistently. Like being able to shoot the feather constructs, isn't always depicted. Sometimes, he is just the guy that can fly and telepathically communicate with avian life forms. However, I didn't know about his combat prowess stretching back into the 70s. I thought that was new to the character when Marvel introduced his SHIELD training a while back.

@mega_spidey01 said:

falcon is a loser token black guy character who should just die.

I agree and disagree. He is obviously reduced to tokenism in this cartoon but he is also one the oldest black heroes in comics. You can't just kill him off. I feel that he can be redeemed, if done right. He kinda suffers from the same things Aquaman did, even though AQ was kind sorta always a badass. People used to reduce him to his ability to talk to sea life and they do the same with Falcon and his abilities. I feel like, If a good writer can help salvage Aquaman's legacy, one can do the same for Falcon. Also, "loser token black guy" can be said about almost every black hero that has never been given a serious push.

#14 Posted by flazam (2495 posts) - - Show Bio

Cause they are trying to get him well know before the fim comes out

#15 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

...I'm on the top three list for Falcon fans? That's the most depressing achievement ever.

Okay, let's just talk 616 here:

First off, on the powers, there's also his ability to telepathically communicate with birds. Just think about that. Virtually anyone outdoors, or near a window, and he has dozens of untraceable, unsuspected cameras he can turn on them at any time. At which point he can extract to that location at upwards of 120 MPH and use his training to fight off dozens of guys single-handedly.

Or, y'know, he could just command his army of birds to attack Hitchcock style.

As for personality, he was just some guy going through rough times when he got tortured by the goddamn Red Skull and came out with a new lease on life. He battles terrorist cells and Doctor Doom and s***, and then goes back to his day job, trying to give the down-on-their-luck of Harlem their own chance.

The man once found gangsters trying to take Ronald Reagan hostage, and not only did he talk them into letting him go, he talked

Reagan

into hearing out them out ten seconds after he'd had a literal gun to his head.

And what does he get for it all? He's the Avenger nobody cares about. He's treated like he's only good for Captain America's sidekick.

Yeah, a lot of the time he's boring. But it's because hardly any writers take advantage of what's right there.

Thank you so much for posting this.

I've always felt like Falcon had the potential to be one of the most interesting Avengers, if more people thought (or even knew) what made him really unique. He's at least on par with someone like Daredevil in terms of his powers alone, and actually has a lot more going for him than characters like Hawkeye or Luke Cage, who are both considered pretty classic members.

#16 Posted by ColonelRunAway (370 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson: And apparently he's gonna be an ex-paratrooper in the Cinematic Universe, so he should have plenty of fighting skill there.

#17 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4776 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they should have keep the story of Falcon being a mutant. I think that would totally explain the connection for his avian telepathy and give him added depth. I think his latest cartoon version helps out a lot. Wings that shoot or can be used as a sword plus he's an agent like Tasha or Clint.

( + )

#18 Edited by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonelrunaway: Thats cool. I feel like this movie can help salvage this character's image. Winter Solider is supposed to be a spy like movie, so hopefully we see Falcon doing some of the espionage and not just Cap and Bucky.

@yung_ancient_one said:

I think they should have keep the story of Falcon being a mutant. I think that would totally explain the connection for his avian telepathy and give him added depth. I think his latest cartoon version helps out a lot. Wings that shoot or can be used as a sword plus he's an agent like Tasha or Clint.

( + )

Mutant screams X-men though. And Falcon has always been the partner of Cap, whose an Avenger. So I guess thats why they down played it. The whole Doom thing was kinda lame too.

#19 Edited by Akindoodle (1016 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they need to fill out their f*cking diversity quota. So patronising. If they really needed a black character, why couldn't they put Luke Cage in it?

#20 Posted by amutant (267 posts) - - Show Bio

Falcon: Guy who talks to birds. Lame

Aquaman: Guy who talks to fish. Cool?

#21 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they need to fill out their f*cking diversity quota. So patronising. If they really needed a black character, why couldn't they put Luke Cage in it?

Because he's already in Ultimate Spider-man.

#22 Posted by Akindoodle (1016 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Really I find Black Widow more useless. She's a street level thats only good for espionage.

#24 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

...I'm on the top three list for Falcon fans? That's the most depressing achievement ever.

Okay, let's just talk 616 here:

First off, on the powers, there's also his ability to telepathically communicate with birds. Just think about that. Virtually anyone outdoors, or near a window, and he has dozens of untraceable, unsuspected cameras he can turn on them at any time. At which point he can extract to that location at upwards of 120 MPH and use his training to fight off dozens of guys single-handedly.

Or, y'know, he could just command his army of birds to attack Hitchcock style.

As for personality, he was just some guy going through rough times when he got tortured by the goddamn Red Skull and came out with a new lease on life. He battles terrorist cells and Doctor Doom and s***, and then goes back to his day job, trying to give the down-on-their-luck of Harlem their own chance.

The man once found gangsters trying to take Ronald Reagan hostage, and not only did he talk them into letting him go, he talked

Reagan

into hearing out them out ten seconds after he'd had a literal gun to his head.

And what does he get for it all? He's the Avenger nobody cares about. He's treated like he's only good for Captain America's sidekick.

Yeah, a lot of the time he's boring. But it's because hardly any writers take advantage of what's right there.

Thank you so much for posting this.

I've always felt like Falcon had the potential to be one of the most interesting Avengers, if more people thought (or even knew) what made him really unique. He's at least on par with someone like Daredevil in terms of his powers alone, and actually has a lot more going for him than characters like Hawkeye or Luke Cage, who are both considered pretty classic members.

#25 Posted by Millennian (25 posts) - - Show Bio

They made Falcon stupid in this show, he shouldn't even be associated with Iron Man in the capacity that has already been shown, he should have some history with Cap.

#26 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

They made Falcon stupid in this show, he shouldn't even be associated with Iron Man in the capacity that has already been shown, he should have some history with Cap.

I agree, in terms of his relationship to Tony and not Cap. However, the way his abilities are depicted on that show is pretty damn cool.

#27 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

They made Falcon stupid in this show, he shouldn't even be associated with Iron Man in the capacity that has already been shown, he should have some history with Cap.

Irritates me too. I get that he's the PoV character and all, but frankly portraying him as the excited rookie irritates me too. That is not the Falcon I'm comfortable with...

#29 Posted by FuriousWeasel (90 posts) - - Show Bio

@amutant said:

Falcon: Guy who talks to birds. Lame

Aquaman: Guy who talks to fish. Cool?

Aquaman has never been cool.

#30 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they need to fill out their f*cking diversity quota. So patronising. If they really needed a black character, why couldn't they put Luke Cage in it?

I agree that the rational may be patronizing, and I haven't seen the show, but to my mind Luke Cage is way more generic and dull than Falcon. At least Falcon has unique and distinct powers that none of the other Avengers have, Luke Cage (though I do like him) would actually add nothing to the team power-wise.

#31 Posted by The Stegman (24054 posts) - - Show Bio

Falcon is annoying as hell in the show. "Oh, I'm a rookie! What if I don't measure up?? Grow some confidence kid. Also he's been pretty useless so far.

I know they want him there to get exposure for the film, but come on! Bring Black Panther back.

#32 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Falcon is annoying as hell in the show. "Oh, I'm a rookie! What if I don't measure up?? Grow some confidence kid. Also he's been pretty useless so far.

I know they want him there to get exposure for the film, but come on! Bring Black Panther back.

Word. Much prefer 616 or Ultimate Falcon. And BP definitely needs some shine, hell, I want to see him with his own solo movie.

#33 Edited by Akindoodle (1016 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: In comparison to Falcon, yes I guess Luke Cage is the more generic 70s "angry hood thug" kinda guy. But you gotta admit, he's way funnier, more popular and certainly wouldn't have the confidence issues that Falcon seems to have; annoying everyone according to the posts here. Luke Cage also adds the street smarts dynamic and gang connections that no one else on the team has. Can you imagine Hawkeye or Captain America trying to jive with turkeys? What would they say? "Word to yo momma yo!"?! He also brings the possibility of Iron Fist later on and I'm up for that. (Sheesh, they should just invest in a Heroes for Hire cartoon or something. No wait. It's Disney. They might Disnify it!)

#34 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: oh, don't get me wrong, I do like Luke Cage. Like you say, he has been written to be really funny, especially when he was first on the New Avengers.

I just think it's a shame that no writer has ever really given the same attention to Falcon as most other classic Marvel characters have received. I mean, there's very few superheroes from the 60's who have received as little character development as the Falcon, which, considering how unique he is in the Marvel pantheon, just seems like a real shame to me.

#35 Posted by Akindoodle (1016 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: His ultimate version's pretty cool. But yeah, mainstream, there doesn't seem to be anything of note on the guy except that he and the Cap are buddies

#36 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33099 posts) - - Show Bio

So can Falcon control the Shi'ar empire then?

#37 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: His ultimate version's pretty cool. But yeah, mainstream, there doesn't seem to be anything of note on the guy except that he and the Cap are buddies

I've never read anything with the Ultimate Falcon, but I've heard he's pretty cool. Although, to my mind, it still seems like a waste to not bother utilizing his distinct power set.

#38 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33099 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

So can Falcon control the Shi'ar empire then?

What?

Well the Shi'ar are basically evolved birds

#40 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Ohhh, OK. I'm not familiar with them. That sound like it could be interest though.

#41 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

@blkson said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

So can Falcon control the Shi'ar empire then?

What?

Well the Shi'ar are basically evolved birds

it's more like they evolved from birds, the way we evolved from primates, not that they are birds.

#42 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33099 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@blkson said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

So can Falcon control the Shi'ar empire then?

What?

Well the Shi'ar are basically evolved birds

it's more like they evolved from birds, the way we evolved from primates, not that they are birds.

Dude they have feathers

#43 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4485 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude they have feathers

sure, but they don't have wings or beaks. And, even if they did, my point is that they are people. Falcon can control and communicate with birds, but birds aren't people. Maybe they would be more susceptible to his powers then humans, but I doubt he could full on control someone the way Karma or Xavier does. Though, I'll admit this is largely speculation on my part.

#44 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33099 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dude they have feathers

sure, but they don't have wings or beaks. And, even if they did, my point is that they are people. Falcon can control and communicate with birds, but birds aren't people. Maybe they would be more susceptible to his powers then humans, but I doubt he could full on control someone the way Karma or Xavier does. Though, I'll admit this is largely speculation on my part.

They are still avian and not primate so I don't see why not

#45 Posted by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

Falcon is a good character when stories are written right. He is done poorly in the new cartoon.

#46 Posted by Manchine (4169 posts) - - Show Bio

At least he is 10x better then luke cage.

#47 Posted by FuriousWeasel (90 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle said:

Because they need to fill out their f*cking diversity quota. So patronising. If they really needed a black character, why couldn't they put Luke Cage in it?

I agree that the rational may be patronizing, and I haven't seen the show, but to my mind Luke Cage is way more generic and dull than Falcon. At least Falcon has unique and distinct powers that none of the other Avengers have, Luke Cage (though I do like him) would actually add nothing to the team power-wise.

You're right about Cage, although I like him he does seem to have been pushed to the forefront in the last few years. While that's not inherently a bad idea the writers do seem to have forgotten his official power levels. Although he's tougher than most (Almost impenetrable skin) he's not supposed to be able to lift more than 30-35 tons.

#48 Edited by Spideysense44 (3379 posts) - - Show Bio

They should have used someone like Black Panther instead.. Falcon is just eh.. I like the effort though :)

#49 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

They should have used someone like Black Panther instead.. Falcon is just eh.. I like the effort though :)

Black Panther is too busy being the main man in the Illuminati.

#50 Edited by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Falcon deserves some time and character building, unfortunately they did not do him any justice in the new cartoon.

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