Hulk- An unstoppable Monster who can level a city in a whim who get's stronger with anger.

Scarlet Witch- Reality Warping Mutant who can go toe to toe with the Phoenix. Since when did she get THAT powerful??

Iron man- Creates a suit to beat almost anyone in Marvel. Everything from Hulk, Phoenix, Telepaths, Magneto, --Heck maybe even Galactus.

Captain America- Who can apparently go toe to toe with Cyclops, Wolverine, and Gambit-- all in the same day.

Black Widow- Who somehow molly-whopped Magik in Limbo....... Didn't even think that was possible.

Black Panther- Who can take out one of the X-men's most powerful mutant's Storm

Thor- a God. Enough said.

Vision- Who is Mavel's Martian Manhunter and who's powers are boss.

Ms.Marvel- Who powers list is so extensive, I don't even know where to begin.

The Thing- Who is strong enough to beat Namor underwater.

Daredevil- Who is immune to pretty much all of Psylocke's mental attacks.

Mind you, many of the Avengers have take direct hits from the Phoenix and managed to be okay-- which is ridiculous.

Is it just me-- or does it seem like Marvel being a little biased when comes to making the Avengers better than the X-men? (Which was NEVER the case in the past-- Never) (Although, in all fairness, some x-men in the past where very overpowered-- Magneto, Storm, and Rogue)

IMO-- The balance of power was Never this unfair. Is AvX a device of Marvel's to make the Avengers look good? Because it hasn't done much for the X-men aside from giving certain fan's favorite characters a chance at being Phoenix hosts. Other than that-- it seems the X-men are just punching bags for the Avengers.. Why not a fair fight-- instead of the Avengers being plot pampered every other issue?

Honest discussion please. And let me know if you are an X-men Fan, Avenger Fan, or Both.

God man, If you think Avnegers are over powered... take a look at Justice League

@MadeinBangladesh: I think he means they are overpowered to have an interesting or fair match against the X-men.

The JLA are more overpowered...

@MadeinBangladesh said:

God man, If you think Avnegers are over powered... take a look at Justice League

Avengers are well powered, but JLA is op.

@MadeinBangladesh said:

God man, If you think Avnegers are over powered... take a look at Justice League

This.

Hulk- An unstoppable Monster who can level a city in a whim who get's stronger with anger.

Scarlet Witch- Reality Warping Mutant who can go toe to toe with the Phoenix. Since when did she get THAT powerful??

Iron man- Creates a suit to beat almost anyone in Marvel. Everything from Hulk, Phoenix, Telepaths, Magneto, --Heck maybe even Galactus.

Black Widow- Who somehow molly-whopped Magik in Limbo....... Didn't even think that was possible.

Black Panther- Who can take out one of the X-men's most powerful mutant's Storm

Thor- a God. Enough said.

Vision- Who is Mavel's Martian Manhunter and who's powers are boss.

Ms.Marvel- Who powers list is so extensive, I don't even know where to begin.

Daredevil- Who is immune to pretty much all of Psylocke's mental attacks.

Mind you, many of the Avengers have take direct hits from the Phoenix and managed to be okay-- which is ridiculous.

Is it just me-- or does it seem like Marvel being a little biased when comes to making the Avengers better than the X-men? (Which was NEVER the case in the past-- Never) (Although, in all fairness, some x-men in the past where very overpowered-- Magneto, Storm, and Rogue)

IMO-- The balance of power was Never this unfair. Is AvX a device of Marvel's to make the Avengers look good? Because it hasn't done much for the X-men aside from giving certain fan's favorite characters a chance at being Phoenix hosts. Other than that-- it seems the X-men are just punching bags for the Avengers.. Why not a fair fight-- instead of the Avengers being plot pampered every other issue?

Honest discussion please. And let me know if you are an X-men Fan, Avenger Fan, or Both.

The only powerful member in Avengers is Thor

The X-men have more powerful members only that they are written poorly because marvel prefers Avengers to be their #1 team

The only powerful member in Avengers is Thor

I would really not but Noh Varr on that level well at least not as currently written.

Still the x-men have some powerhouses active like Storm, Magneto, Rogue, Iceman, Rachel, Colossus, Namor, and Magik. X-Factor has Polaris, Havok and Darwin (who oneshotted Hela). Legion is around so not really underpowered.

Honestly, the X-men's largest advantage is in telepaths and variety. They have someone who can do anything. Avengers have more top of the line bricks and way better super geniuses.

@Vance Astro said:

@jhazzroucher said:

The only powerful member in Avengers is Thor

And Red Hulk,and Iron Man,and Ms.Marvel,and Captain Britain and Noh-Varr.

X-Men has Magneto, Colossunaut, Magik, Storm, Emma Frost and Cyclops

@MrShway88 said:

@MadeinBangladesh: I think he means they are overpowered to have an interesting or fair match against the X-men.

Yes- that was what I was hinting at. And I don't read DC as much anymore. :/ But I could imagine JL is insanely powerful.

@Vance Astro:

I don't really wanna count the P5 powers too much-- considering those powers aren't too consistent with those x-men. Although Colossus seems a hair away almost matched against the Hulk. And I did read Thor vs Emma. And on any other day Emma would have lost to Thor-- seeing as her telepathy didn't work on him and her diamond form was shattered.

Scarlet Witch isn't an Avenger??? I didn't know that-- I just thought she was considering she is helping them in AvX and she used to be one.

Being a super genius and coming up with Tony Stark's inventions are two different things. Beast, Reed, Black Panther haven't been that ridiculous when it comes comes to OP inventions. --Have they? Fill me in if I am missing something. Either way I think Tony Stark takes the cake for most outrageous inventions.

Sure, She-Hulk ripped Vision in half, but what exactly his the power difference her and the rest of the Hulks? She is a Hulk after all.

Ms.Marvel has: Super Strength, The ability to turn into Binary, Super Speed and Agility, Super Stamina, Invulnerability, Energy Absorption, Energy Projection, Regeneration, Danger Sense, Some Molecular control, cosmic awareness, and Flight.

I consider that list of powers extensive.

Maybe it's just writing. Maybe if it was written better.. and so many Avengers where not immune to X-men attacks it would seem a bit more balanced and fair.

@jhazzroucher: I figured as much. Just comes off as a slap in the face to the x-men. :/

@Skaddix: Dawin one-shotted Hela???? XD I didn't know that. lol

Do not use any matchups in AvX for reference, victories have been based on popularity and the pathetic storyline, not using and sense or logic.

The Avengers should be the most powerful. Their entire thing is being the mightiest coming together to handle the things no one else can. Where as the X-Men should be less powerful because their thing is mostly just dealing with mutant issues. Still though people generally think X-Men are more powerful.

Overpowerd by "real world standards" yes. But compared to other teams? No. Justice League is the mac daddy of them all (next to the JSA) and Invincible singlehandedly can squish even the Hulk (dunno if he' part of a coalition or not, or else Omni-Man is)

I don't really wanna count the P5 powers too much-- considering those powers aren't too consistent with those x-men. Although Colossus seems a hair away almost matched against the Hulk. And I did read Thor vs Emma. And on any other day Emma would have lost to Thor-- seeing as her telepathy didn't work on him and her diamond form was shattered.

Scarlet Witch isn't an Avenger??? I didn't know that-- I just thought she was considering she is helping them in AvX and she used to be one.

Being a super genius and coming up with Tony Stark's inventions are two different things. Beast, Reed, Black Panther haven't been that ridiculous when it comes comes to OP inventions. --Have they? Fill me in if I am missing something. Either way I think Tony Stark takes the cake for most outrageous inventions.

Sure, She-Hulk ripped Vision in half, but what exactly his the power difference her and the rest of the Hulks? She is a Hulk after all.

Ms.Marvel has: Super Strength, The ability to turn into Binary, Super Speed and Agility, Super Stamina, Invulnerability, Energy Absorption, Energy Projection, Regeneration, Danger Sense, Some Molecular control, cosmic awareness, and Flight.

I consider that list of powers extensive.

Maybe it's just writing. Maybe if it was written better.. and so many Avengers where not immune to X-men attacks it would seem a bit more balanced and fair.

@Dernman said:

The Avengers should be the most powerful. Their entire thing is being the mightiest coming together to handle the things no one else can. Where as the X-Men should be less powerful because their thing is mostly just dealing with mutant issues. Still though people generally think X-Men are more powerful.

Yeah but you got to remember from the point Claremont took over until Decimation. The X-men were the most dominate franchise at marvel. The Avengers did not even rate. In terms of sales.

With in the context of being versus X-Men, then I would disagree that the Avengers are too powerful. Context is king, and as such given so many variables? You can't really have an upset balance of power unless you are actively looking for it. If there is any hard and fast general rule is that the Avengers have more consistent raw predictable power and the X-Men have more versatile and unpredictable power. The Avengers are filled with traditional powered characters who are fast, strong, powerful and durable and who can be very effective in individual scenarios (Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Ms Marvel, Red Hulk, Protector, Vision, War Machine) and then you have the X-Men who have a lot more variety with powers, and who typically can be more effective the better their team work, especially when you consider many of the younger and or less powerful junior members. Especially when you take in to account characters like Rogue and Hope who stack powers.  
 
Not just that but for every example you have given there is a counter example that could suggest alternative scenarios, so I will try and balance out the situation with as few examples. Okay, so Rogue has defeated Captain America, Thor, Vision, by herself with the same power set she has today bar less experience then than now, so thats them cancelled out. Given that her powers have absorbed the Thing and Hulk before and that she would have Thor and Cap's powers at a minimum added to her own, she could probably replicate taking them out, but now it almost seems unfair so throw Colossus with Juggernaut type powers into the mix to face Hulk and Kid Gladiator, Warbird, Warpath and Shatterstar should be more than enough to beat Thing if we ignore all the times that Namor has proven superior to Thing as far as so far and with consistency as a priority, and then throw Namor with Iceman to face Rulk. Think Iron Man can beat Magneto with any character whose IQ is over 80 telling him the science in his fight is unrealistic? Possibly, but he won't be using Jupiter's magnetic field to do it, and throw in Polaris as back up just in case. I am bored now, but you still have Warlock, Emma, Kid Omega, Shadowcat, Storm, Cannonball, Havok, Dazzler, Chamber, Northstar, Husk, Armor, Magik, Domino, Danger, Dust, Fantomex and really just a lot of other characters with quirky powers that may not mean they can beat some of the Avengers by themselves? Though some like Storm and Danger probably could, but working with one another they probably could, like how Emma and Dust teamed up to take out Exodus. Mind you these are just examples. Not what should happen, far from it, ultimately such things can play out many many many ways as per the discretion of the writers. For me, iys nigh impossible to claim any team as overpowered given a large amount of variables.       

@Vance Astro: You are right- Events really are inconsistent. I am picking up on that more and more.. For me, AvX takes the cake.

As for Scarlet Witch- Who Cares? Jean, Marrow, Jubilee, Lifeguard, and others are past x-men, but are still considered X-men. Same goes for Scarlet Witch. Besides her portrait in AvX is blue in the AvX like the rest of the Avengers. But seriously.. who really cares?? She is an Avengers vet either way.

WHAT? Beast is?? (--Well technically he is an Avenger..) I totally thought Reed and his daughter where the smartest in the world? Alright either way most of the smartest people in Marvel belong to the Avengers which over-laps with my point.

Okay- than how much weaker is She-Hulk from a regular hulk? The power difference can't be That far off. right?

Meh- I consider turning into Binary a power. It's kinda like going super saiyan, imo. Also Ms. Marvel's page on Comicvine says other for her powers I listed off including cosmic awareness.

@poisonfleur said:

Scarlet Witch- Reality Warping Mutant who can go toe to toe with the Phoenix. Since when did she get THAT powerful??

I think it's been established how powerfu she is since she decimated the most powerful species on the planet with three words.

@Vance Astro: i stopped reading after the debut of the phoenix five, looks like it got more ridiculous, glad i dropped it. lol

@Onemoreposter said:

@poisonfleur said:

Scarlet Witch- Reality Warping Mutant who can go toe to toe with the Phoenix. Since when did she get THAT powerful??

I think it's been established how powerfu she is since she decimated the most powerful species on the planet with three words.

I knew she has been powerful-- but to be able to go against a phoenix host? I didn't see that coming.

@Dernman said:

@Skaddix: That has nothing to do with concept though. What the X-Men are about doesn't call for or need to them to be the most powerful unlike the Avengers. To say the X-Men should have more then the Avengers just because of popularity and sales is bad decision making. It's reasoning like that that usually end up hurting characters in the long run. It makes fans happy for the short term but down the road the fans end up saying how much they miss the old days and how writers can't get things right..Fan service and fan wanking is a terrible thing that usually ends up ruining a good thing.

More Popular. More Characters created for the Franchise. Greater Chance of more powerful characters being created. Regardless of concept. Besides THE AVENGERS never really go out and get the strongest possible anyway.

They were always supported to e the earths mightiest until the 90's when X-men started popping up everywhere . I think even as far back as when marvel depowered half of them that the plan was always to try and even out the teams a bit but give the Avengers the win to clearify that they're still #1 regardless of sales.

@mr.obvious said:

The JLA are more overpowered...

@jeanroygrant said:

@mr.obvious said:

The JLA are more overpowered...

@Dernman said:

@Skaddix: You are missing the entire point of what I'm saying. Really its like you are having another discussion. Do try to at least understand what I'm saying because it seems you are only reading what you what you want to read. This isn't some fan issue oh my team should be better then yours blah blah. It's about universe building. Concept and good story telling is everything. More popular and more chances still don't have anything to do with it. and that's ignoring the claim that Avengers don't go out and recruit which doesn't even have anything to do with what I'm saying. Even if that's true it's just bad execution of the concept. Avengers are meant to handle the jobs no one else can. You can be a human, god, or mutant. Everyone can join. They are about all the greatest issues/problems that come up. The X-Men's purpose is much smaller because they are mainly just about mutant issues.

Hardly the x-men's fault that the Avengers don't build the strongest roster possible. I mean look at the kooky quartet that was hardly the most powerful roster and those were not in anyway earth's mightiest heroes. heck even the orginal roster had weak links. I mean really wasp and pym? So if you want to say things got off track that happened a long time ago.

Besides most of the most powerful mutants are never really regulars on teams anyway. And until recently mutants really never joined the Avengers. Beast and the Maximoff twins being exceptions.

So yeah the Avengers may not be on concept but whatever I always looked at as hyperbole anyway. No one calls themselves the world's second strongest team. Its a tagline.

@Dernman said:

@Skaddix: You are missing the entire point of what I'm saying. Really its like you are having another discussion. Do try to at least understand what I'm saying because it seems you are only reading what you what you want to read. This isn't some fan issue oh my team should be better then yours blah blah. It's about universe building. Concept and good story telling is everything. More popular and more chances still don't have anything to do with it. and that's ignoring the claim that Avengers don't go out and recruit which doesn't even have anything to do with what I'm saying. Even if that's true it's just bad execution of the concept. Avengers are meant to handle the jobs no one else can. You can be a human, god, or mutant. Everyone can join. They are about all the greatest issues/problems that come up. The X-Men's purpose is much smaller because they are mainly just about mutant issues.

Hardly the x-men's fault that the Avengers don't build the strongest roster possible. I mean look at the kooky quartet that was hardly the most powerful roster and those were not in anyway earth's mightiest heroes. heck even the orginal roster had weak links. I mean really wasp and pym? So if you want to say things got off track that happened a long time ago.

Besides most of the most powerful mutants are never really regulars on teams anyway. And until recently mutants really never joined the Avengers. Beast and the Maximoff twins being exceptions.

So yeah the Avengers may not be on concept but whatever I always looked at as hyperbole anyway. No one calls themselves the world's second strongest team. Its a tagline.

Like someone said before, it's not about being OVERPOWERED and it's not about the Avengers being better or stronger than the X-Men because to be honest they are not stronger power range wise whatsoever. If anything the Avengers are more favoured than the X-Men especially during the AvX crossover it's a bit ridiculous if you ask me especially when the X-Men go head to head with individual Avengers. Like someone stated before it's just bad writing, they have favourites and they want their favourites to look good. In no way would Namor loose to a fight against The Thing underwater, that's clearly horrible writing. No way would Psylocke loose to Daredevil, and PLEASE do not get me started on how BlackWidow even stood a change against Magik when they were in Limbo. Nevertheless it's not that they are overpowered, it's just the SOME of the writers in AvX write the characters/character battles poorly.

They were over-powered for most of their existence. Their 'weakest' lineup consisted of Captain America, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye and they quickly added members to beef up their roster. At one point, every superhero but the X-Men was an Avenger, and at this point, most of the well-known X-Men are on their roster as well.

Being over-powered is their thing - they are called Earth's Mightiest Heroes for a good reason.

@InfamousFish said:

Avengers are well powered, but JLA is op.

this

Scarlet Witch isn't powerful enough to combat the Phoenix Force, only a host with a fifth of it's power.

@Enosisik said:

They were always supported to e the earths mightiest until the 90's when X-men started popping up everywhere . I think even as far back as when marvel depowered half of them that the plan was always to try and even out the teams a bit but give the Avengers the win to clearify that they're still #1 regardless of sales.

I can respect this.

@Deranged Midget said:

Scarlet Witch isn't powerful enough to combat the Phoenix Force, only a host with a fifth of it's power.

Okay-- Forgot about the 1/5 power aspect. But still you have to admit, even that is a bit shocking.

@IllyanaRasputin: Hoohoo!!! black widow vs Magik was a HOT MESS! Sure these fights are bad writing, but still it translates to reader as over-powered. Like Black widow is just OHhhh SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good she can molly-whop Magik in Limbo. :/

Or tell how powerful Psylocke's blades are and then have Daredevil get stabbed by one and have him be perfectly fine afterwards.

Add the fact that the X-men are pretty much made out to be the bad guys-- and that they are loosing almost every fight in AvX (and if they win it's by some dumb reason: Emma has the Phoenix force against Thor, Magik surprised Black Widow, Spider-man fled). I don't even count some of the wins the X-men have as wins because they are so pathetic..

But I think you hit it right on the head when you said the Avengers are much more favored than the X-men. *grumble grumble*

You trippin. They're superhero's. they are supposed to be unstoppable. If they could be defeated easily then they wouldnt be very super. I'm tired of reading comments about how characters are overpowered. They're imaginary characters. read a real book if you dont like comic characters.

@Vance Astro: You are right- Events really are inconsistent. I am picking up on that more and more.. For me, AvX takes the cake.

As for Scarlet Witch- Who Cares? Jean, Marrow, Jubilee, Lifeguard, and others are past x-men, but are still considered X-men. Same goes for Scarlet Witch. Besides her portrait in AvX is blue in the AvX like the rest of the Avengers. But seriously.. who really cares?? She is an Avengers vet either way.

WHAT? Beast is?? (--Well technically he is an Avenger..) I totally thought Reed and his daughter where the smartest in the world? Alright either way most of the smartest people in Marvel belong to the Avengers which over-laps with my point.

Okay- than how much weaker is She-Hulk from a regular hulk? The power difference can't be That far off. right?

Meh- I consider turning into Binary a power. It's kinda like going super saiyan, imo. Also Ms. Marvel's page on Comicvine says other for her powers I listed off including cosmic awareness.

JL pwns both fucc it

@Vance Astro said:

@poisonfleur said:

@Vance Astro: You are right- Events really are inconsistent. I am picking up on that more and more.. For me, AvX takes the cake.

As for Scarlet Witch- Who Cares? Jean, Marrow, Jubilee, Lifeguard, and others are past x-men, but are still considered X-men. Same goes for Scarlet Witch. Besides her portrait in AvX is blue in the AvX like the rest of the Avengers. But seriously.. who really cares?? She is an Avengers vet either way.

WHAT? Beast is?? (--Well technically he is an Avenger..) I totally thought Reed and his daughter where the smartest in the world? Alright either way most of the smartest people in Marvel belong to the Avengers which over-laps with my point.

Okay- than how much weaker is She-Hulk from a regular hulk? The power difference can't be That far off. right?

Meh- I consider turning into Binary a power. It's kinda like going super saiyan, imo. Also Ms. Marvel's page on Comicvine says other for her powers I listed off including cosmic awareness.

They weren't always THIS bad though. If you go back to Civil War, there are some fights that actually MAKE sense. As time went on it seems with combat writers would get stuck in these predicaments where they have two characters whom aren't anywhere near evenly matched and the weaker character has to win for the sake of the story, and whatever they write that is supposed to even the odds, never seems to actually do that. Scarlet Witch is a mutant as well as a veteran Avenger. I haven't seen her in alot of books since she returned in Children's Crusade, however she's not on any Avengers roster and I think her stance is neutral. I may be wrong about that but I don't think she's on either side of the event. Beast IS technically an Avengers but he is nearing the intellect level of Tony Stark, he's also a long time X-man. Reed may be the smartest being in the world next to Doom. I'm not sure about Valeria. Reed and Doom aren't Avengers though. The Avengers DO have more super geniuses than the X-men but the X-men have more powerful members. The Avengers have alot of street levelers. It's hard to say how strong She-Hulk is compared to Hulk and Red Hulk I'll just say it's not really close. Red Hulk walked all over her solo. She needed Storm,Tigra,Invisible Woman and the rest of the Lady Liberators to beat him. Her comicvine page isn't correct. If she ever displayed cosmic awareness it's either gone or it was an accident.

Alright- Thanks for the heads up Vance. That really shed light on a few things. By chance do you know what issue or tpb She-hulk and the ladies took on Red Hulk? I wouldn't mind picking that up.

IKR Right? I bet this dude who started the thread is a DC fan and is expecting someone to admit Avengers can't beat Justice League, lol.

 By chance do you know what issue or tpb She-hulk and the ladies took on Red Hulk? I wouldn't mind picking that up.

IKR Right? I bet this dude who started the thread is a DC fan and is expecting someone to admit Avengers can't beat Justice League, lol.

@Vance Astro: Thanks!

@Vance Astro: Thanks!

Vision- Who is Mavel's Martian Manhunter and who's powers are boss.

Both can go intangible and that's the only similarity...
BB

@poisonfleur said:

@IllyanaRasputin: Hoohoo!!! black widow vs Magik was a HOT MESS! Sure these fights are bad writing, but still it translates to reader as over-powered. Like Black widow is just OHhhh SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good she can molly-whop Magik in Limbo. :/

The only reason that fight went the way it did was because Black Widow was in "The Avengers" movie. Magik was holding her ground against Captain America, Black Knight and some other high level melee character before she even received most of her experience with the New Mutants. Black Widow should have been curbstomped.

Right dont say the avengers are over powered. If you want to get technical the Justice League is WAAAAY too over powered. Hell almost the whole DCU is in the Justice League haha. Thats why not very many people like The Justice League over the Avengers because theyre just way to powered up and boring. The Avengers are more interesting and still would beat the Justice League anyday. (Granted its the original members from each group, if it was everyone that was ever on each time then i dont know haha)

@mr.obvious said:

The JLA are more overpowered...

@mr.obvious said:

The JLA are more overpowered...