Are women being avenged in Marvel NOW!?!

#1 Posted by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

So, i don't think i am the only one that is not thrilled or impressed by the line up of the Avengers NOW! and i really hope things will change for the better because they already started off badly, if you are a female fan or just a fan of females.

Looking at the current roster revealed on the new Avengers cover, out of the 14 characters showcased and not kept a secret still, 3 of them are women. Which seems very imbalanced, especially since Marvel's women outclasses the men in so many ways and have been so under appreciated and valued for decades. With an event like AvX that demonstrates the power of Marvel's mutant women how are there none on that new cover? And when are they going to include more Avenging ladies to team instead of leaving them in limbo.

Here are some suggestions that can help create more equality and representation for women. First off let one of them lead, let them work together rather than apart, allow female Avengers to get their own book too so they don't have to just have team books to star in. Also, instead of Thor is every book use Valkryie, or use She-Hulk instead of a green or red Hulk. And try harder to include women of colour like; Storm, Photon, Firebird, Black Panther(ess), White Tiger, or Echo. Minority heroes are so hard to come by it helps when non-minority writers support.

Now let me get to the two big reasons i don't like the cover, the exclusion of Storm and the Scarlet Witch. When Storm joined the team last year Marvel hyped it into a big deal but they did nothing really with her character and when AvX happened they did not utilize her connection to both sides and basically ignored her. She's an X-men and an Avenger, yet she is no where to be seen on Uncanny Avengers and now neither on this team. If they can use Wolverine everywhere why not Marvel's most iconic supeheoine?! And then we have the Scarlet Witch, who we know will be in Uncanny Avengers, but is not on the big team when Wolverine, Thor, and Cap are. She is going all out to prove she is an Avenger in AvX but she isn't given the same treatment as the other guys. Unless they are keeping some secrets from the current Marvel crossover, then we should be getting a lot more than what we are seeing.

If Marvel NOW! is all about including mutants on the main team then why are they only males? Why not enlist Rogue and/or Psylocke on their team. They would both be great assets to the team, especially with their power sets. And if you are going to have New Mutants then why not have Mirage and Magma on the team as well? Dani's a Valkyrie, SHIELD agent and has worked with the Avengers before and Magma can melt the world literally, yet they aren't included. New Mutant was cancelled so I am going to need my NM fix somewhere.

It looking like more and more like Marvel THEN! So unless they are keeping some major surprises that will remedy this art preview fail then why should WE care. And be WE, i mean people who want to see all genders, races, ages, abilities and orientations represented equally and diversity celebrated rather then tokenized. I want to read the Avengers once in my life but Marvel doesn't seem to care about their female characters or their female readers that much. So NOW! would be a great time to bring us in by giving us heroes we can relate with and reasons to buy your comic books.

#2 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

#3 Posted by Selinaky (677 posts) - - Show Bio

I never really noticed it, but it would be cool for more female characters to be featured as long as it's not very forced. Valkyrie or She-Hulk would be awesome. Most of my favourite Marvel characters are male though, and I read most female characters from DC, such as Wonder Woman, Batgirl/woman, Catwoman, Supergirl. I'm interested in Journey into Mystery focusing on Sif.

#4 Edited by BushidoBlack (116 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the characters that haven't been revealed yet are women.

http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHickman/q/367859938682228063

He also posted this regarding another similar question:

Q: okay in trying to think a bit outside of the box here,will any of the following women be in your avengers? Thundra, Talisman,Snowbird,Namora,Sersi,,YoYo,Black Panther,Sabra,Excalibur?
A: None of these. Frankly, no one is going to guess who they are. Some are new and some are just way outside the box.

Not to mention, New Avengers is an entirely different team with a different roster according to Hickman. I'm sure some women will be on there as well.

#5 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

1. An all female avenger book probably would not sell or last long given the recent history of Marvels female titles as of late.

2. Outclassed the men? How exactly?

3. Comics are mostly catered to a male demographic. If they replace a popular male character with a female counterpart whos popularity is nonequivalent to that of wolverine, deadpool or even wonder woman, the book will see a decline in sale and will receive complaints from said targeted audience. This is, or is to me, the main problem in regards to getting more female readers; the boys only vibe in comics. Marvel or Dc will never put out many female books or truly support their female readers to such a length that you are hoping because they risk at losing their core audience.

#6 Posted by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

What would really impress me was if the other 8 unannouced Avengers were all female and for once their team's history the women outnumbered the men. But with the way things are now the Avengers will remain boy's club and it wont really change unless they want it to, in the books and behind them, in the creators room.

As for Storm, i believe she is the most iconic because she is the most recognized and prolific female Marvel has, and she's been in more books, been in more cartoons, and been in more movies than any other superheroine. Hopefully Captain Marvel will finally get her due and lead the Avengers one day. With a name like hers it must happen.

#7 Posted by Vance Astro (91068 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver_Raven said:

 DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. 

I made this point in a blog and I got trashed by female comic readers for it. DC is TRYING to make a change for the better. No, comic publisher has that many female titles simultaneously.
Moderator
#8 Edited by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, at this point, Black Widow is probably Marvel's most iconic, or at least best known, female character. Most people out there don't really read comics, so unless a character has been in either a successful television show or movie then the average person out there has no idea who they are. Before this year I would've said it's a toss-up between Invisible Woman and Storm, but neither of them are as in-grained in the general public as say Wonder Woman or Wolverine (let alone Batman or Spider-Man).

Widow played a major role in a movie that made over a billion dollars. That much media exposure likely allowed her to leap-frog over any of Marvel's other female characters in terms of name recognition.

#9 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver_Raven said:

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

Simple reason; female solo books do not sell as well as male or team books.

#10 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

DC has two all exclusive female titles such as birds of prey and ami-comi series.Not one but two

DC has many female titles that are selling well and can hold their own.

DC is just better with female titles.

#11 Posted by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

@Silver_Raven said:

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

Simple reason; female solo books do not sell as well as male or team books.

I think the real problem is that men don't want to read about women while women are more open and willing to read about men. Or men will only care about a female solo book if she presented in art very male-oriented and sexually objectified.

Male chaunvinism or subtle sexism is what really keeps fans from supporting certain books and it also doesn't help that there aren't more women writers and artists helping to fix the faults.Only a select few superheroines have endured the decades to remain at the head of the pack without compromising themselves too much (but not by their fault) and I am sure if they more central to stories as the leaders and difference makers, rather than accessories and crisis causers, then more people would care. Wonder Woman has been a solo superhero for decades yet she has never had a movie done about but Green Lantern has...?! And i think there are many genres where women led books/tv shows/movies do very well because there are more accessible, where the culture of comic books is so repellant to all lot of people who aren't a certain type of male. If the majority of comic book only focus on one type of group to the exclusion of other minority groups that don't have as much representation, privilege or power, well then you alienate them from your material and only true die hards will support a character/book.

So I feel the men who create and consume comics should try harder to appreciate women fictional and real..

#12 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver_Raven said:

@x_29 said:

@Silver_Raven said:

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

Simple reason; female solo books do not sell as well as male or team books.

I think the real problem is that men don't want to read about women while women are more open and willing to read about men. Or men will only care about a female solo book if she presented in art very male-oriented and sexually objectified.

Male chaunvinism or subtle sexism is what really keeps fans from supporting certain books and it also doesn't help that there aren't more women writers and artists helping to fix the faults.Only a select few superheroines have endured the decades to remain at the head of the pack without compromising themselves too much (but not by their fault) and I am sure if they more central to stories as the leaders and difference makers, rather than accessories and crisis causers, then more people would care. Wonder Woman has been a solo superhero for decades yet she has never had a movie done about but Green Lantern has...?! And i think there are many genres where women led books/tv shows/movies do very well because there are more accessible, where the culture of comic books is so repellant to all lot of people who aren't a certain type of male. If the majority of comic book only focus on one type of group to the exclusion of other minority groups that don't have as much representation, privilege or power, well then you alienate them from your material and only true die hards will support a character/book.

So I feel the men who create and consume comics should try harder to appreciate women fictional and real..

Not all men, but a lot of them do not care about women in comics unless theirs chessecake and i agree it is that kind of attitude that keeps female superheroines back. As a male newish-comic book reader, it disappoints me.

#13 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32199 posts) - - Show Bio
@x_29 said:

@Silver_Raven said:

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

Simple reason; female solo books do not sell as well as male or team books.

But they do still sell, hence many indy comic company's have long running female lead books 
Online
#14 Edited by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@x_29 said:

@Silver_Raven said:

@guttridgeb said:

To be honest, I think you're overreacting. There could be as many as 8 new avengers being added to the roster and most of the characters have become pretty iconic Avengers. I also disagree that Storm is the most iconic Marvel super-heroine, Ms/Captain Marvel holds that spot as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see She-Hulk on the team but not in the place of Hulk who hasn't had a permanent spot on the team since near the beginning of the Avengers.

I hate having to react at all but Marvel Now! is really wasting this opportunity their hyped up relaunch by sticking with it's the same old, same olds. DC got criticized and condemned for their reboots' treatment of women, despite them having many female led titles. And with Marvel the only big changes and new faces i am seeing are new mutants Avengers and three women getting their own books to star in. This cover is pandering to the audience of the Avengers movie and i can't really blame them for that but why not use this opportunity to showcase some more women than just the token one that they used in the movie, who didn't have any superpowers. A massive audience of women went to see the flick and might be looking to the comics now but might feel alienated or estranged from the source since it's doesn't scream female friendly. And let's not get into the costume and portrayals of some of them.

Simple reason; female solo books do not sell as well as male or team books.

But they do still sell, hence many indy comic company's have long running female lead books

Oh of course, i am not saying that they completely do not sell books. Im particularly talking about the case for most female titles at Marvel and even DC.

#15 Posted by GR2Blackout (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure, it may not be fair to women, but it's just for sales. There's many other team rosters that haven't been revealed yet, and as far as we know they could contain only 2 men and 19 women. So now's not the time to worry about this.

#16 Edited by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

@GR2Blackout said:

Sure, it may not be fair to women, but it's just for sales. There's many other team rosters that haven't been revealed yet, and as far as we know they could contain only 2 men and 19 women. So now's not the time to worry about this.

^ mhm. I agree this post is a bit of overreacting. It's not like Marvel completly ignores women, there has been (and still are) many series in the marvel universe that focus on some sort of iconic female hero. And women have led before (take Storm with the X-men). As for her being the most iconic, close but no. I'd say Black Widow. Though there's some females that don't even have to be popular for people to know who they are. Take spiderwoman for instance, if i show non-comic readers a picture of her and ask who it is, they're gonna assume it 'looks like spiderman but its a girl' = spidergirl? spiderwoman?

#17 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

DC has two all exclusive female titles such as birds of prey and ami-comi series.Not one but two

DC has many female titles that are selling well and can hold their own.

DC is just better with female titles.

This.

I do agree with the OP and I am hoping the female lead books (X-Force with Psylocke, Journey Into Mystery with Sif) will be given a fair chance. Female led books do not sell well -- not really on the Marvel side of things -- so I am thinking this is an attempt to support female characters but in a team setting where most fans can find it more palatable.

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