Six Developments from AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #12

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#51 Posted by VeganDiet (978 posts) - - Show Bio

So can anyone explain why Hope could use the Phoenix to bring back mutants, but Cyclops couldn't? Because, unless there's a great explanation for that, Cyclops is a huge douche.

#52 Posted by Lamenoire (193 posts) - - Show Bio

@chocobojam said:

If only captain america believes and give hope a chance to prove her being a mutant messiah, then there should not be an AvX and phoenix five in the first place. And now captain america is blaming a phoenix possess cyclops for everything bad that happens in earth.....i really wish that cyclops would stand up and spit captain america in the face, instead of just "taking all the blame".

No matter what happened before. Even if the avengers caused the possession by trying to stop the phoenix, it is still Summers who nearly destroyed the earth. It is him (and the other 4) who destroyed Wakanda, took the avengers prisonner and wanted to rule the world. It is him who killed Xavier.

If someone told you that a teenager could control the phoenix force, whereas a very powerful telepath (Jean) failed to do it, and every other witness of this event are against it (Xavier, Logan, Beast). Would you take that bargain ?

And you seem to forget one thing : it is only because hope and Wanda "killed" the phoenix that new mutants were born (and that the world didn't end). We don't know what would have happened if Hope tried to use her power in the same way that the phoenix five.

#53 Posted by DATNIGGA (1186 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron man doesn't get held accountable for civil war...

Scarlett witch Depowered & decimated a race leading to alot of there deaths & multiple events but she doesn't get held accountable for it...

Wolverine has killed thousands by now.. but no one talks about that

but cyclops gets provoked to violence while under the influence of the Phoenix & everyone thinks he should just get locked away & hes a maniac?

yeah ok lol

Avengers = Above the law & punishment

#54 Posted by Trodorne (2572 posts) - - Show Bio

@Miss_Garrick: @jcbart said:

One Development from Avengers vs. X-Men:

Cyclops was right and Captain America is a hypocritical dump turnip.

Cyclops was right. so the main thing is people are saying Scott has to be responsible for what he did right? so which means he is being put on trial. So where is Daredevils trial? Last time I checked he went on a rampage in New York with a group of ninja's and he was still possessed by some stupid parallax demon. What does Cap do? "I don't know if I can trust you." routine and slaps him on the wrist and says Bad.

And during this whole thing which this entire middle event was completely bogus. What was the entire point to that PR letter that was put out. no one mentioned it after the end of the first issue. I mean come on the whole purpose was to rally people to the side of the x-men.

In the end 12 issues seems like a big old waste of time to tell a story we all knew was going to happen and that the mutants were going to come back. They made that super clear in issue zero with the focus on hope and the scarlet witch especially after M day. Now its still not over yet, we still have the pointless consequences of this event 1 issue of 4 for each week.

What was even the point of cable in X-sanction when he said he was going to be back soon. They must have wanted to change and lengthen the story when just about everyone knew what the first plot line was.

#55 Posted by DefaultProphet (43 posts) - - Show Bio

This idea that Wolverine is suddenly against using children in combat is so Frakkin contrived its not even funny. He's the damn poster boy for training and using teenage girls as soldiers! It's been a core part of his character since the 70s(?). Kitty Pryde, Jubilee, and Armor recently. The only reason he was on the other side of the schism was because he's the biggest X character. =\ Also #ScottSummersWasRight and @hyenascar and @LeeSensei are absolutely KILLING it earlier in these comments. Saying it way better than I could

#56 Posted by Shika1Dude (111 posts) - - Show Bio

does that mean Dani Moonstar will get her powers back!?! :D

#57 Posted by GreenFuse (295 posts) - - Show Bio

@jcbart said:

One Development from Avengers vs. X-Men:

Cyclops was right and Captain America is a hypocritical dump turnip.

Agreed. If Cap and the Avengers would have stayed out of it, listened to Cyclops, Hope would have got the PF, she'd jump start the mutant race, easy peesy. But then we wouldn't have this weaksauce and infuriating event, so...there's that.

The highlight of this issue was Cyclops seeing Jean in the flames. I'm just going to believe it was her because it gave me goosebumps.

#58 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

In the very beginning, Cyclops believe in hope as a mutant messiah and willing to risk it (not because hope is a red haired girl who looks like jean, but it's because, he has a strong basis on it. And its like what Cyclops said that "captain america doesnt know hope like he does".), and in the end, it is proven that he is right. And even though Cyclops and the other four did do bad things, but lets not forget that they are under the influence of phoenix that captain america and his avengers "divided".

Im not saying that Cyclops should not be blame in his actions, but im just trying to say that its unfair for cyclops to take all the blame.

#59 Posted by pspin (891 posts) - - Show Bio

Was I the only person who like this issue?

It was good because they had Cyclops take responsibility for his actions instead of just be like "Phoenix did it!" the fact that he was remorseless (a fact which really shone through in UXM) was really nice to see; sure he looked like a crazy person but it was a nice break from the whole "It's fine he was possessed so we know he didn't mean it." idea that is popular.

#60 Posted by Scantenii (60 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope they stop writing Cyclops like a douche... He is one of my favorite X-man characters and I have hated how they have turned him into a villain... (Also why is Wolverine such a arrogant bastard? With all the people that he has killed and hurt in his life I am surprised that he isn't treating Cyclops with more compassion.) I also thought Uncanny X-man was garbage this month.

#61 Posted by Mr_Athrilla (82 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked it when cap sad "I've let the world hate and fear mutants far too long." I mean I've been saying that for at least 18 years. This whole event could of been avoided if the Avengers took a firm stance against mutant hatred.

#62 Posted by DaltonMunnal (161 posts) - - Show Bio

The biggest thing I'm taking out of this is that Cyclops, the one we all accused Marvel of trying to vilify turned out to be right, and Captain America was wrong. Perhaps we will all disagree with his means, but in the end, he was right.

#63 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Meteorite said:

Sigh... I miss Richard Rider...

#64 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

You forgot the 7th development: Cyclops was right!

#65 Edited by Lokheit (492 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is Magneto being persecuted? As soon he realized what was happening he called Xavier for help! He is as guilty as Storm or Iceman for being on the P5 side and then help the avengers... He even confronted Cyclops during the final battle. Really didn't understood that part, poor try to put Magneto on the bad side when he was helping the heroes...

And about the OP comment of what will Hope do with the Phoenix Power now... wasn't it declared as destroyed? I think that was what happened. Of course the Phoenix is a force of nature and is related with rebirth, but I think Hope no longer posses it after sacrificing the PF to restore mutankind.

I agree with others, the biggest consequence was that Cyclops was right from the very beggining and Cap is a douche that pushed him into madness so he could say: look! I'm the hero and he's the villian! let forget who pushed who!!

If Cyclops ends up as a villian after what other characters have done, possesed by the PF or by other means, or even without being possesed, and not being turned into villians, I will be mad... The new generation of mutants should know him as a hero, not as a villian.

And some characters ended way down on my list, specially Beast. I used to like him, but he has been a complete hypocrite recently. Leaving the X-Men because of X-Force, and hating Scott for it, but then allowing Logan to have his own X-Force that kill children instead of Purifiers, exterminating millions of human beings with the Secret Avengers (way more than Cyclops was responsible of with X-Force, and possibly with the Phoenix), but still blaming Cyclops, and now his attitude during this event...

@Scantenii said:

I really hope they stop writing Cyclops like a douche... He is one of my favorite X-man characters and I have hated how they have turned him into a villain... (Also why is Wolverine such a arrogant bastard? With all the people that he has killed and hurt in his life I am surprised that he isn't treating Cyclops with more compassion.)

That was because Jason Aaron was writting this issue, I like him as a writter, except when he puts his hands over Scott Summers, check every book written by him with Scott Summers, it's exagerated how he writes again and again what a maniac and crazy guy is Scott. But even with him writting this and making Scott look a bit like a maniac, he couldn't avoid us to realize that he was right, and Cap "don't dare try turn this into a win" quote is crap because he doesn't need to turn a win into a win. Wolverine bing present on the final reunion is completly pointless, Wolverine is way down on the list of guys with a right to tell Scott Summers what's wrong or not.

#66 Posted by DominionX (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@Scantenii: @Scantenii said:

I really hope they stop writing Cyclops like a douche... He is one of my favorite X-man characters and I have hated how they have turned him into a villain... (Also why is Wolverine such a arrogant bastard? With all the people that he has killed and hurt in his life I am surprised that he isn't treating Cyclops with more compassion.) I also thought Uncanny X-man was garbage this month.

I agree totally. They have turned him into a maniac instead of the leader he has been seen as for years. This is just Marvel putting the Avengers up on a pedestal and making Cap the pinnacle of leadership in the Marvel Universe.

Marvel's new take on Wolverine is so inconsistent from book to book that it is ridiculous. In one book he's is the moral leader who is trying to teach young mutants use their powers and that violence isn't the answer. In another book he leads a squad of murderers who kill at will. So either he's bipolar or they think we will accept anything.

This month's Uncanny X-Men was a poor attempt to explain why the Avengers (Wanda and Hope) were able to beat Cyclops/Dark Phoenix. A very poor attempt.

#67 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6166 posts) - - Show Bio

The story needed stronger motives behind why each character acted as irrationally as they did.

Period.

Both Cyclops and Captain America acted like testosterone inflated idiots at the onset, generating a conflict that, with but a splash of reality and true leadership, did not need to be. But hey, comics are about action, not the art of diplomacy. I get that. However, they're also about solid story telling and character development. The two do not have to me mutually exclusive.

As is, there was absolutely no reason whatsoever why and how two leaders of two extremely powerful groups could not have worked things out ... they came to blows far too quickly over far too little when their respective resources should have been grouped to save the planet (and no, I'm not referring to the imminent destruction of the planet in the "far too little" portion, but rather their treatment of Hope and coming to hasty and unsubstantiated contradictory conclusions in her regard with far too little build up and real motive).

We say 12 books were too long ... and we're right. But there was a lot of 'empty space' wasted that could have been moved toward establishing real, solid motive behind them coming to blows (as opposed to full panels showing Wolverine following a trail of beer cans for instance).

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#68 Posted by schmoozies (5 posts) - - Show Bio

This all comes down to the sloppy writing and heavy handed decisions that the Avengers had to be the good guys and Scott had to be wrong.

On the plus side I may get a good storyline out of dissident mutants rallying behind Cyclops for saving their species.

Also since last I looked seeing as SHIELD is back to being a US organization and no longer associated with the UN what right do they have to "close" down Utopia which was declared an independant state being outside of US territorial waters and allied with the Atlantians who live at the base of the pillar that supported the island. Again it was Cap invading a foreign country and declaring its leader a threat to the world despite all evidence to the contrary. The P5 didn't go wrong until after the Avengers started poking them and attacked the Island a second time because they felt the P5 were to powerful.

#69 Posted by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@Miss_Garrick: Hope was destined to be the Phoenix bearer. Except, unlike everyone before her, she was able to give up the power (with the help of Wanda). The power then reactivated/activated new mutant powers all over the world. She saved the mutant race essentially.

And all those things you mentioned about Cyclops happened after he was possessed by the Phoenix Force.

#70 Posted by stormphoenix (897 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh great so Cyke has to go to jail and the rest of his team.....seriously, but scarlet witch is free....pathetic

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#71 Posted by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

So Cyclops gets jail-time, and the rest of the phoenix five and magneto get hunted down; but Wanda has been walking around freely all this time even after House of M and Decimation? Yeah. That's fair.

#72 Posted by CBninja (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's a thought lets say things went differently. Lets say hope stayed and received the phoniex force like Scott thought. Without Wanda's help she can't get rid of the phoniex to spark the mutants back. So how did Scott ever expect for them to come back?

#73 Posted by Deadgod (1183 posts) - - Show Bio

This whole AvX event have sure made both Cyclops & Cap into hypocrite idiots , all this war could have been avoided it if they have made the right decisions in the first place

#74 Posted by kdrudy (1 posts) - - Show Bio

New Nova, ugh, I do not want this, especially after everything we've seen about this one so far and being written by someone so awful right now.

#75 Posted by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

I will give Marvel some credit for their work on Cyclops over the last couple years. Honestly, I feel like I've grown with the character and really became attached to him (y'know, not in an unhealthy or creepy way). It was actually kinda sad to see Cyclops wearing that orange jail suit and helmet at the end. Also, though I don't agree with him being in jail and created into a villain, it has made for some great debate between us fans. I'm REALLY excited for Marvel NOW.

#76 Posted by ceniza (94 posts) - - Show Bio

wow. now cyclops is crazier than osborn? way to go writers. I guess we'll see, but I'm not liking my x-men these days.

#77 Posted by nappystr8 (1030 posts) - - Show Bio

It's official, AVX is the worst event comic ever made. Nothing happened as a result of this series that anyone could not have casually guessed before the first issue came out. You bring the Phoenix Force back from the dead in order to kill it again (just like Xavier), and you bring back the mutants. That part is actually cool but we didn't need 12 issues worth of filler to make that happen, it could have been done in a one shot...or in Avengers Children's Crusade. We didn't need Cyclops ruined as a character for that to happen either. The writing and art are completely inconsistent, in artist and quality. Thank Galactus this piece of crap is finally over with. It usually upsets me that nothing in comics ever lasts, but this time I can't wait for everything that happened in AVX to fall into obscurity.

#78 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope Cyclops dies

#79 Posted by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormphoenix: haha, I put the exact same comment down at the exact same time. Look under your post.

#80 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

Countless lives lost due to the Phoenix Five... who were created due to Stark's arrogance.

Why is Magneto on the run? It makes no sense.

#81 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyke will be back very soon, there are a lot of mutant supporters of the guy. Cap should have minded his own business. Tony Stark is at fault hyere as well. Cyke is the man and the heart of the Xmen.Beast is a traitor, always has been.

#82 Posted by MisterKetch (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jcbart said:

One Development from Avengers vs. X-Men:

Cyclops was right and Captain America is a hypocritical dump turnip.

Agreed.

Cyclops was the ONE member of the Phoenix Five who by the end looked like he was still in control yet he got blamed for everything, it was ridiculously bad writing. I mean come on Captain America was a freaking bully headed idiot the entire event, attacking the X men constantly (because after the first 9 times that failed OBVIOUSLY they were due for a break) and only serving to do things worse. With the one exception of the Limbo prison (which was pretty messed up) the Phoenix 5 did make the world a much better place and instead of trying to understand and work with the mutants the avengers simply punched first because "phoenix bad" it was a self fulfilling prophecy which I can't stand in stories.

#83 Posted by Mutant God (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

Who lives were lost

#84 Posted by RagingB0ner (5 posts) - - Show Bio

What a craptacular storyline

#85 Edited by kid Apollo (709 posts) - - Show Bio

i hate that Magneto is being hunted along side the P5 now. he did more 'good' things during the event then any of the P5. its just an excuse to make him a bad guy again, what a load of crap. sure it didn't always look natural to see him fighting along side the X-men, but he did some really amazing stuff while he was with them. he brought back Kitty Pryde in a giant bullet, his battle with Proteus during Necrosha was awesome, and his solo duel with all the Nimrod class Sentinels during 2nd Coming was epic. i'm usually not a fan of bad guys turning good (i still think Emma would be a better bad guy) but Magneto brought some bad-ass-titude to the X-men

i still think that the Scarlet Witch should be put in jail too. she was possessed by an amazingly powerful entity and committed genocide of her own species. you can argue that Quicksilver and Dr. Doom were pulling her strings but that doesn't change what she did. lots of people died when they lsot their powers, either through immediate means (some guy burnt up in a volcano) or they were killed by anti-mutant groups when they were powerless. i dont recall that many people dieing from what Cyke did.

it comes down to this: terrorism is terrorism, plane and simple. i see no distinction between Scott and Wanda's actions. they should both be held accountable. and if you fall off the deep end you should be incarcerated or put down like a rabid dog

#86 Posted by G-Man (30625 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Countless lives lost due to the Phoenix Five... who were created due to Stark's arrogance.

Why is Magneto on the run? It makes no sense.

The reason I can see for Magneto is for siding with them pretty much until the end. Guilty by association? An accomplice? I guess if he turned himself in, maybe it'd be okay?

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#87 Posted by SpitfireINK (242 posts) - - Show Bio

"We now from the Marvel NOW! ..."

We now know that there is no Superhero Proofreader at ComicVine.

#88 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@G-Man said:

@John Valentine said:

Countless lives lost due to the Phoenix Five... who were created due to Stark's arrogance.

Why is Magneto on the run? It makes no sense.

The reason I can see for Magneto is for siding with them pretty much until the end. Guilty by association? An accomplice? I guess if he turned himself in, maybe it'd be okay?

Fair enough, although surely the same would apply to Psylocke, Iceman, Danger etc?

IMO, it's more of a reflection on past crimes. I mean, Magneto was there, fighting alongside Xavier, the other X-Men and the Avengers to take Scott down.

#89 Posted by stormphoenix (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sleepbutnodream15: hahaha nice. No but seriously you are right NONE of this is right. So if this is justice then all I can say is.......WOW

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#90 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@nappystr8: Well said!

#91 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sleepbutnodream15: She deserves death for that whole House of M mess.

#92 Posted by kasino (1492 posts) - - Show Bio

more mutants, fear of mutants stay the same or back to its peak

mutants on the avengers is cool but now how do they act to mutant problems as the avengers weren't really involved

it just turned out alot of X-Men weren't about the mutant movement as we thought forever, Avengers are solid though

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#93 Posted by cuddles666 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised this article didn't mention the fact that Utopia was destroyed and it's now just a broken down compound guarded by SHIELD Agents. Where are the X-Men gonna live now? Or is everyone just moving into the Jean Grey School?

#94 Posted by ferpuerto17 (54 posts) - - Show Bio

At least they did not kill Scott... I was afraid they would for a while

#95 Posted by Inverno (13061 posts) - - Show Bio

You hear that guys? The winds of s*** are blowing. Brace yourselves s***storm is coming.

#96 Posted by Mutant God (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

@cuddles666 said:

I'm surprised this article didn't mention the fact that Utopia was destroyed and it's now just a broken down compound guarded by SHIELD Agents. Where are the X-Men gonna live now? Or is everyone just moving into the Jean Grey School?

not just X-men, mutants who wasnt apart of AvX, the prisoners, Atlanteans who lived under Utopia

#97 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Miss_Garrick: How could Cyclops cheat on her if she was dead? Once you die I think you sorta become irrelevant.

#98 Posted by The Black Hood (88 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Magneto start feeding them information and get into contact with Xavier to help the Avengers and yet he's not wanted? The Avengers just wanted an excuse to make him a criminal again despite the fact that Scarlet Witch has served zero time for her actions. Also, the biggest prick in the Marvel Universe goes to Wolverine. Constantly lied to Hope throughout the story and just couldn't wait to try to murder his former teammates. Honestly, almost every other line from him in this crossover was about how he was "gonna gut" this teammate or that one. Wolverine is the abusive drunken uncle of the Marvel Universe.

#99 Posted by mrtrickster (2307 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear to god if Jean returns......

#100 Posted by MarvelMan1985 (152 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Black Hood:  Uh...I believe Magneto IS wanted...you see him in the picture above :)

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