My theory on who will die at the end of AvX

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Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

So, as we all know at this point, someone is going to die at the end of AvX. It is commonly believed to be Cyclops, however I disagree with that. While it is likely, I think they're making it too likely. As if they're teasing us with it. People think that the Cyclops from the Marvel Now promo image is the 1960's Cyclops, but if that's so why is he wearing a new (horrible) costume while Jean Grey isn't? Plus Bendis said something about Cyclops and Wolverine's reaction to seeing Jean again in an interview, which he very well could have said just to avoid spoiling the finale.

Now, take a look at this image.

The one on the left doesn't really matter for this topic, I'm focusing on the one on the left. Seeing as the only people seen are Avengers, this leads me to believe it's going to be an Avenger. Now, the other popular theory for a death was Iron Man, but he has a movie coming soon and you can see his feet on the cover. In a recent New Avengers arc a connection was built between the Phoenix Force and one of the past Iron Fists. So far that hasn't really moved into the main AvX storyline, but I think it's coming very soon, and I think it will lead to the death of Iron Fist. Fans of Danny Rand know he is a very noble character and if put into the situation, would sacrifice himself to save others. I think that Danny will end up being forced to contain, ward off, or "destroy" the Phoenix Force to save Hope, his friends, or the Earth itself.

This is just my theory, however, and I'd like to hear your own as well as your thoughts on mine.

EDIT: Another solid theory is Namor. Namor has connections to both sides, so his death could be used to hit them both hard, even though anyone's death would probably do that. It's possible that it could be Red Hulk as that is a very big crack in the ground and he could revert back to his human form. Not to mention that he is being replaced with his daughter as the star of his ongoing book. Luke Cage is another possible option, as his death could symbolize the end of Bendis' Avengers era and give reason for the New Avengers to break up, which they supposedly are, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

#1 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist is a good theory, it would p!ss me off, but I don't count it out. Personally I thought Tchalla, because of Storm's sudden reapperance in comics and his disappearance, plus his role in AVX has been boosted over the last three issues but he just died in Defenders "he'll be back within 2 issues" so I'm know longer leaning towards him.

#2 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Yeah, I hope Iron Fist doesn't die, but it makes sense. Iron Fist and Namor are my top two candidates.

#3 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator: Poor Danny.... Namor I wouldn't really mind croaking so if it is one or the other I hope it's him. I thought Emma for awhile too, but it just became too obvious after seeing some of the future covers.

#4 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Could be Rulk too.

#5 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@Blood1991: Could be Rulk too.

That would make me too happy and Marvel never makes me too happy. Then again Betty would still be around trying to steal Jen's thunder so it may balance out. I'll cross my fingers for that one. " If you are a Rulk or She Rulk fan I apologize for my bluntness"

#6 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Well there was that bit in X-Sanction where they mentioned Ross not being part of the history Cable remembered, or something like that. Could mean that Red Hulk dies in AvX, or could mean Cable is getting his info from a different timeline. Either way they have 5 Hulks right now, so it would make sense that they weed that down a little.

I hope it's Namor though.

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33428 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not reading this book but I always thought Noh Var was going to die 

#8 Edited by Lokheit (492 posts) - - Show Bio

Namor has a lot of tickets to be the first death, but this events usually contains 2 deaths, one of them to set the tone and another one as a sacrifice at the end of the event (Nightcrawler and Cable, Ares and Loki, etc...). 
 
I think that cover featuring only avengers would mean the silluete is from an avenger too, and it would make sense that each side has one man down.
 
I'm convinced that Cyclops won't die, the new costume from that teaser is him, if Jean still has her old costume, her team will maintain it. I'm a bit worried about Emma because she's clearly going to be the Dark Phoenix and Cyclops as the most noble of them and the only one who seems to control it (goto the digital issue for the wakeup call he had) is going to help stop her, but I don't want her to die in that fight, it would be very lame for Scotty to loose his 2 loves for the same reason (the Phoenix). 
 
@Blood1991: Which covers you say hint to Emma surviving? I've only seen the uncanny x-men ending with the photo of the extinction team burning, and the legacy cover with some random characters that could be just memories as a "final recopilation of the legacy of the x-men."

#9 Posted by SupahForeigner (227 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the picture on the right was just the image of where Nova crash landed..? Maybe I'm looking at it in a different angle

#10 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lokheit:

This seems a little to obvious...

#11 Edited by Lokheit (492 posts) - - Show Bio
@Blood1991: How that cover hints to Emma surviving that fight? I though you were refering to post-AvX covers. 
 
I would hate to see either of them dying as i love that couple. Cyclops is apparently surviving the event, but i'm worried about him having to kill possesed Emma to "save her" from the Dark Phoenix. The cover of Uncanny with both kissing while fighting clearly shows how they don't want this because they love each other, but they can't control it and must fight. 
 
Cyclops is clearly going to "redeem" himself by being the most noble and stable of the P5 and ultimately realizing what's wrong and helping the others defeat the Dark Phoenixes  and Emma has shown she's completly corrupted by corrupting Namor too so he attacks the avengers by himself, so that fight is the logical conclussion to both positions crashing. But I hope they can't manage to get rid of the Dark Phoenix without needing to kill Emma.
 
I hope she survives, but unlike Cyclops with his new costume and Bendis speaking about him post-event, there aren't hints of Emma being alive after this. It would be tragic and lame if she dies because of a PF related event like jean Grey :S  And Cyclops drastic costume change (from his always present visor to that weird helmet) could be an indication of how devastated he's after this and how it changes him as a person.
 
I already have one of my top3 characters killed (Nightcrawler) Cyclops and Emma are the other 2, I can't have another one killed ;(
#13 Posted by blur1528 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm curious as to what Kieron Gillen will be moving on to other than the Consequences book...

#14 Posted by rawr (88 posts) - - Show Bio

In the wake of all the SDCC panels it feels like Cyclops is going to die. JM2C.

#15 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@rawr: Alonso: AvX' ends with a bang, it’s going to be very controversial," added Alonso. "A lot of you will be very pissed at us, a lot of you will be clapping," he said, mentioning one team will deal with the question of new leadership.

I'm pretty sure this is a red herring trying to convince us Cyclops will die, when it will be Cap stepping down or Cyclops stepping down.

#16 Edited by rawr (88 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator: I know what you are saying but I remember when they showed red X faced wanna be Judge Dredd Cyclops an article confirmed it was Cyclops but "it might not be Scott" so I wouldn't exactly bet the farm? I can't find the exact article right now which is frustrating tho. If I do I'll edit it into this post.

Aha. I clearly like most of the internet need to learn to read. You have good theories. It would be nice to be thrown off but the Marvel liveblog of Friday mentioning there was shoutouts for Cyclops' death in the panel crowd makes me wary.

#17 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@rawr: I mentioned that in my blog, just another thing they're doing to try and throw us off.

#18 Posted by Mercy_ (92697 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma Frost is my guess.

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#19 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lokheit said:

Namor has a lot of tickets to be the first death, but this events usually contains 2 deaths, one of them to set the tone and another one as a sacrifice at the end of the event (Nightcrawler and Cable, Ares and Loki, etc...).

I think that cover featuring only avengers would mean the silluete is from an avenger too, and it would make sense that each side has one man down.

I'm convinced that Cyclops won't die, the new costume from that teaser is him, if Jean still has her old costume, her team will maintain it. I'm a bit worried about Emma because she's clearly going to be the Dark Phoenix and Cyclops as the most noble of them and the only one who seems to control it (goto the digital issue for the wakeup call he had) is going to help stop her, but I don't want her to die in that fight, it would be very lame for Scotty to loose his 2 loves for the same reason (the Phoenix).

@Blood1991: Which covers you say hint to Emma surviving? I've only seen the uncanny x-men ending with the photo of the extinction team burning, and the legacy cover with some random characters that could be just memories as a "final recopilation of the legacy of the x-men."

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@Lokheit said:

@Blood1991: How that cover hints to Emma surviving that fight? I though you were refering to post-AvX covers. I would hate to see either of them dying as i love that couple. Cyclops is apparently surviving the event, but i'm worried about him having to kill possesed Emma to "save her" from the Dark Phoenix. The cover of Uncanny with both kissing while fighting clearly shows how they don't want this because they love each other, but they can't control it and must fight. Cyclops is clearly going to "redeem" himself by being the most noble and stable of the P5 and ultimately realizing what's wrong and helping the others defeat the Dark Phoenixes and Emma has shown she's completly corrupted by corrupting Namor too so he attacks the avengers by himself, so that fight is the logical conclussion to both positions crashing. But I hope they can't manage to get rid of the Dark Phoenix without needing to kill Emma. I hope she survives, but unlike Cyclops with his new costume and Bendis speaking about him post-event, there aren't hints of Emma being alive after this. It would be tragic and lame if she dies because of a PF related event like jean Grey :S And Cyclops drastic costume change (from his always present visor to that weird helmet) could be an indication of how devastated he's after this and how it changes him as a person. I already have one of my top3 characters killed (Nightcrawler) Cyclops and Emma are the other 2, I can't have another one killed ;(

Lot of good points her. The battle between Cyclops and Em is clearly the "Light Phoenix" vs. the "Dark Phoenix" that the Iron Fist side-story predicted in legend. Cyclops most likely survives the event (I was even wondering whether or not it was a ruse that his brother Havok was leading the Uncanny Avengers and that it was actually Cyclops himself), as I don't trust the skepticism Brevoort and Alonso are trying to feed us with that possibly not being Cyclops (or at least not present-day Cyclops) in the new costume. I'll admit... I think the new costume is kinda cool. The X-helmet is a little weird, but the rest of the design is neat.

I've also heard that the person with the new visor and costume is someone else altogether. I honestly never thought about 1963' Cyclops wearing the costume but then that would mean that it IS Cyclops wearing the new costume. Just...not 616 Cykes. Anyway, I have heard no mention of Emma after this event myself so that leaves me reason to be seeing as how I support their union. Really, another mutant death at this stage would hit the mutant population badly, however, maybe that's what would prompt the joining of both the mutant and meta-human community. To kill Cyclops only to replace him with a counterpart from another universe/timeline would be very cheap and Emma would indeed be tragic.

As for the costume...I don't mind the overall design but I just need it to be blue instead if red....Is that too much to ask.

#20 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

I see Cyclops dying, somehow sacrificing himself much in the way Jean Grey did once to save the world, or some such thing. And then we'll see him joining Jean Grey and put on a hiatus.

Then we'll see Emma being comforted by Namor (shades of the Jean/Scott/Emma) and when everyone settles down and a statue is erected in Scott's honour beside Jean's -- we'll see Logan give some heartfelt speech about the two of them in front of a large crowd and then dramatically revealing the new name of the school.

"Grey Summer Institute"

(Too much?)

#21 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

I see Cyclops dying, somehow sacrificing himself much in the way Jean Grey did once to save the world, or some such thing. And then we'll see him joining Jean Grey and put on a hiatus.

Then we'll see Emma being comforted by Namor (shades of the Jean/Scott/Emma) and when everyone settles down and a statue is erected in Scott's honour beside Jean's -- we'll see Logan give some heartfelt speech about the two of them in front of a large crowd and then dramatically revealing the new name of the school.

"Grey Summer Institute"

(Too much?)

A lil bit IMO lol.

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#22 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

Read this and decided to log in. Quite frankly, I agree with you. At this point I think 60-70% of people are thinking Cyclops will be the one that dies. I also think at this point Emma is possibly getting the same treatment as being an obvious contender. I think Marvel will make it a not so obvious person and I have thought from the beginning Protector or Iron Fist were the most likely candidates that weren't as...how should I put it, pressed? To seem like they would die. But after talking with Blood1991 he has convinced me to put Black Panther on that list and I think Hope may croak too if they are bringing in 05 Jean, I don't see a reason for Hope to be there or Luke Cage. But in the end, Cyclops or Emma are still candidates but to me it just seems too obvious for one of them.

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#24 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: I meant by most fans at this point. Just people who read, not necessarily visit this site.

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#25 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Holy crap.

If they kill off Emma INSTEAD of Cyclops, I'll be pissed.

#27 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: I thought you were referring to mine lol.

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#29 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: Speaking of which, even mine has 70% saying he won't lol.

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#30 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

@Blood1991: Holy crap.

If they kill off Emma INSTEAD of Cyclops, I'll be pissed.

I've heard that they have plans for him after AVX, I've heard nothing about Emma, but I still don't think she will croak. Maybe brainwashed and become evil, but I don't think she will be dead, and if she does well she IS the Phoenix now......

#31 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Not Danny! My guess is either Emma or Scott.

#32 Edited by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Good blog.

Cyclops will most likely end up having to save the world from the other, corrupt members of the Phoenix Five (RE: Light Phoenix vs Dark Phoenix prophecy). If he does die, he'll die a hero. I doubt he'll die, however: I hope he'll somehow end up as the hero of the event without dying. Making him the villain would be an easy and predictable move on Marvel's part, and given the last issue of AvX I don't think that's where he's headed. He's certainly the most stable, least corrupt Phoenix Five member; he has his agenda, but he also has his boundaries. Also, we all know that adult Cyclops is shown in promotional material for "Marvel NOW!".

I reckon it's Rulk that dies. He's being replaced by his daughter in the "Hulk' title. Then there's the fact that Cable said Talbot, and not Ross, was the Red Hulk in the future of this timeline (Cable's past) during X-Sanction. Something happens to stop Ross from being Rulk. I predict that the figure on the floor of that cover of "AvX: Consequences" is likely a dead/dying Thadeus Ross in human form.

This does not exclude the possibility of others dying too (Emma, Iron Fist, Luke Cage etc). Damn, I wish Luke Cage would die.

#33 Posted by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

It looks like it could be Cyclops because look at the position of his left hand, it looks like it's touching his visor.

So we know that it's not Iron Man, Spider man, Thing, Captain America, Thor, Storm, Ice man or Falcon.

I'm not so sure Marvel would kill Cyclops, he's a very important character in Marvel history and he was also on the first Marvel NOW! teaser.

#34 Posted by rawr (88 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyke in the teaser could easily be past-into-present Cyke trying to differentiate himself from his dead future self and hide his face in the process.

I think the Namor theory just got blown out of the water today with what happened in AvX 8.

Namor lost the Phoenix Force and is still alive if barely. Odds are he is going to sit out the rest of this one and thus avoid death in the process.
#35 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

My bets are between Xavier, T'challa, Emma & Iron Fist

#36 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Thanks. Yeah, those are the reasons I think it could be Rulk.

@rawr said:

Cyke in the teaser could easily be past-into-present Cyke trying to differentiate himself from his dead future self and hide his face in the process.

I think the Namor theory just got blown out of the water today with what happened in AvX 8.

Namor lost the Phoenix Force and is still alive if barely. Odds are he is going to sit out the rest of this one and thus avoid death in the process.

Ha, good one. But yeah, he's out. He wasn't my main theory and I didn't think his death was that likely, though.

@Hareil0079: Good choices except for T'Challa. After Fantastic Four 608 I can't see him dying.

#37 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@John Valentine: Thanks. Yeah, those are the reasons I think it could be Rulk.

@rawr said:

Cyke in the teaser could easily be past-into-present Cyke trying to differentiate himself from his dead future self and hide his face in the process.

I think the Namor theory just got blown out of the water today with what happened in AvX 8.

Namor lost the Phoenix Force and is still alive if barely. Odds are he is going to sit out the rest of this one and thus avoid death in the process.

Ha, good one. But yeah, he's out. He wasn't my main theory and I didn't think his death was that likely, though.

@Hareil0079: Good choices except for T'Challa. After Fantastic Four 608 I can't see him dying.

I thought the events in Fantastic Four take place before AvX?

#38 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hareil0079: They do, but they put him in a position where I can't see them killing him.

#39 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@Hareil0079: They do, but they put him in a position where I can't see them killing him.

I didn't read the issue of FF, but I've read the interviews where the events of FF falls into play with AvX

So I can see why everyone comes from but interms of the here and now (AvX) my opinion i think it's meaningless.

All things considering i've just been getting a vibe that BP would die in this event considering he's human, and has been the most rational in this event and the sense just would feel right and have an impact.

#40 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hareil0079: Eh, you'd have to read the issue. It sort of sets him up for AvX and beyond.

#41 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@Hareil0079: Eh, you'd have to read the issue. It sort of sets him up for AvX and beyond.

I'll check it out, but considering that FF ends in Oct. I don't see it as setting things up. I believe that UA will do that and come 2013 the relaunch of FF, Future F, UXM, XML, etc... Post AvX

#42 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Good blog.

Cyclops will most likely end up having to save the world from the other, corrupt members of the Phoenix Five (RE: Light Phoenix vs Dark Phoenix prophecy). If he does die, he'll die a hero. I doubt he'll die, however: I hope he'll somehow end up as the hero of the event without dying. Making him the villain would be an easy and predictable move on Marvel's part, and given the last issue of AvX I don't think that's where he's headed. He's certainly the most stable, least corrupt Phoenix Five member; he has his agenda, but he also has his boundaries. Also, we all know that adult Cyclops is shown in promotional material for "Marvel NOW!".

I reckon it's Rulk that dies. He's being replaced by his daughter in the "Hulk' title. Then there's the fact that Cable said Talbot, and not Ross, was the Red Hulk in the future of this timeline (Cable's past) during X-Sanction. Something happens to stop Ross from being Rulk. I predict that the figure on the floor of that cover of "AvX: Consequences" is likely a dead/dying Thadeus Ross in human form.

This does not exclude the possibility of others dying too (Emma, Iron Fist, Luke Cage etc). Damn, I wish Luke Cage would die.

That is a thought but with all due respect why dedicate a cover to Rulk of all characters? Not like I'd miss the SoB anyway,however, maybe I'm missing something. Of nothing else his death would down on the number of hulks running about.

Luke Cage hasn't been up to much lately so it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel deemed him expendable.

#43 Posted by imperial90 (53 posts) - - Show Bio

A mutant death in a war between the x-men and the avengers would bring together the communities? God if anything it would just make mutant kind be even more resentful of the meta-human community then they've already shown themselves to be (For good reason if you ask me, I haven't seen the Avengers do jack to help mutant-kind since before M-day despite all the repeated attempts at genocide against them since then). Even if it's an accident of some kind, or one of the PF5 goes dark and has to be put down, the Avengers started the fight in the first place.

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37889 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hareil0079 said:

My bets are between Xavier, T'challa, Emma & Iron Fist

T'Challa is a no with his recent events. Xavier, made a blog on why that could work and I think AvX issue 8 made it a strong possibility. Emma is still a possibility and Iron Fist has been the only consistent choice I've made since the start. But Rulk and Cage are still choices IMO.

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#45 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperial90 said:

A mutant death in a war between the x-men and the avengers would bring together the communities? God if anything it would just make mutant kind be even more resentful of the meta-human community then they've already shown themselves to be (For good reason if you ask me, I haven't seen the Avengers do jack to help mutant-kind since before M-day despite all the repeated attempts at genocide against them since then). Even if it's an accident of some kind, or one of the PF5 goes dark and has to be put down, the Avengers started the fight in the first place.

Just nitpicking, but meta-human is a DC term.

The Avengers didn't start the fight. The X-Men did. There is no doubt about that.

#46 Edited by why_you_mad_tho (67 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheAnnihilator said:

@imperial90 said:

A mutant death in a war between the x-men and the avengers would bring together the communities? God if anything it would just make mutant kind be even more resentful of the meta-human community then they've already shown themselves to be (For good reason if you ask me, I haven't seen the Avengers do jack to help mutant-kind since before M-day despite all the repeated attempts at genocide against them since then). Even if it's an accident of some kind, or one of the PF5 goes dark and has to be put down, the Avengers started the fight in the first place.

Just nitpicking, but meta-human is a DC term.

The Avengers didn't start the fight. The X-Men did. There is no doubt about that.


 
The Avengers arrived at the X-mens homes demanding their messiah ans possible savor of their entire race. Funny..i remember when Captain America told the X-men that Scarlet Witch was off limits to them because she was an Avenger. But he arrives with a HeliCarrier and an Army of Superheroes looking to take Hope Summers. And at this point Cyclops own son comes from the future says if the Avengers get Hope Summers they will cause the destruction of the planet. And Rachel Summers is living proof the PF can be controlled.
 
And when Summers and the PF proved the Avengers wrong by improving the world instead of destroying it. And the X-men had mutants turn earth into a Utopia, The avengers retaliated by created "Phoenix Killer" weapons. They attack the X-men's home again, and this time even attackchildren. And then to rub salt in the wound they use Scarlet Witch as weapon against the x-men. Please explain to me how the x-men started this fight?
#47 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@why_you_mad_tho said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@imperial90 said:

A mutant death in a war between the x-men and the avengers would bring together the communities? God if anything it would just make mutant kind be even more resentful of the meta-human community then they've already shown themselves to be (For good reason if you ask me, I haven't seen the Avengers do jack to help mutant-kind since before M-day despite all the repeated attempts at genocide against them since then). Even if it's an accident of some kind, or one of the PF5 goes dark and has to be put down, the Avengers started the fight in the first place.

Just nitpicking, but meta-human is a DC term.

The Avengers didn't start the fight. The X-Men did. There is no doubt about that.

The Avengers arrived at the X-mens homes demanding their messiah ans possible savor of their entire race. Funny..i remember when Captain America told the X-men that Scarlet Witch was off limits to them because she was an Avenger. But he arrives with a HeliCarrier and an Army of Superheroes looking to take Hope Summers. And at this point Cyclops own son comes from the future says if the Avengers get Hope Summers they will cause the destruction of the planet. And Rachel Summers is living proof the PF can be controlled. And when Summers and the PF proved the Avengers wrong by improving the world instead of destroying it. And the X-men had mutants turn earth into a Utopia, The avengers retaliated by created "Phoenix Killer" weapons. They attack the X-men's home again, and this time even attackchildren. And then to rub salt in the wound they use Scarlet Witch as weapon against the x-men. Please explain to me how the x-men started this fight?

The war started because Cyclops is an increasingly hostile and extreme leader. Cap knew that it wouldn't be easy getting Hope and that he would need back up. Here's the difference between the Hope and Scarlet Witch situation. For starters the mutants aren't a race and she didn't kill anyone, she de-powered them. If Cyclops had a hold of her, they would kill her or imprison her. The Avengers had no negative plans for Hope and wanted to cooperate with the X-Men, but that wasn't going to happen because Cyclops hold the re-powering of mutants over the lives of everyone in the galaxy. Sure, the Phoenix Force could restore these people's powers, but it could also easily end up destroying the Earth just like every other planet it's gone through.

Rachel is one example of a the Phoenix Force being able to be controlled, but Jean Grey couldn't do it. And Hope is a hormonal teenage girl. Letting a hormonal teenage girl become possessed by the most destructive entity in the universe? Yeah, that's a good idea. The Phoenix Force is a time bomb. Every time it coming to Earth has meant nothing good.

Yeah, they improved the world at first, until they you know, Namor destroyed the capital city of Wakanda and killed thousands of people.

#48 Edited by imperial90 (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Your right, which Namor only did after THEY KIDNAPPED THE MESSIAH OF THEIR RACE, wars have been started over far less then that and they have flat out declared they want to use Hope to kill the Phoenix.

You do realize being a member of an organization (Black Panther with the Avengers) that declares war against another power (PF5) when you are the leader of a people means your nation has declared war against that power right? Black Panther was harboring the Avengers within his own borders just adding fuel to the fire. The last straw was the capturing of Transonic. Namor would have declared war over such things even if he didn't have the PF. Doing what he did was probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen the Black panther do, especially since he was suppose to be against antagonizing the PF5 in the first place.

Hell we even have proof from UNIT that the goal of the Phoenix was to restore the mutant gene (a plan he proceeded to bugger up), we have Cable coming back from the future telling Scott that if Cap got hold of Hope and hid her from the Phoenix somehow it would respond with torching Earth, and Scott is the one being unreasonable?

#49 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@why_you_mad_tho: @imperial90:

I've debated this dozens of times already and it isn't on topic for this thread, so let's agree to disagree.

#50 Edited by why_you_mad_tho (67 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheAnnihilator said:

@why_you_mad_tho said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@imperial90 said:

A mutant death in a war between the x-men and the avengers would bring together the communities? God if anything it would just make mutant kind be even more resentful of the meta-human community then they've already shown themselves to be (For good reason if you ask me, I haven't seen the Avengers do jack to help mutant-kind since before M-day despite all the repeated attempts at genocide against them since then). Even if it's an accident of some kind, or one of the PF5 goes dark and has to be put down, the Avengers started the fight in the first place.

Just nitpicking, but meta-human is a DC term.

The Avengers didn't start the fight. The X-Men did. There is no doubt about that.

The Avengers arrived at the X-mens homes demanding their messiah ans possible savor of their entire race. Funny..i remember when Captain America told the X-men that Scarlet Witch was off limits to them because she was an Avenger. But he arrives with a HeliCarrier and an Army of Superheroes looking to take Hope Summers. And at this point Cyclops own son comes from the future says if the Avengers get Hope Summers they will cause the destruction of the planet. And Rachel Summers is living proof the PF can be controlled. And when Summers and the PF proved the Avengers wrong by improving the world instead of destroying it. And the X-men had mutants turn earth into a Utopia, The avengers retaliated by created "Phoenix Killer" weapons. They attack the X-men's home again, and this time even attackchildren. And then to rub salt in the wound they use Scarlet Witch as weapon against the x-men. Please explain to me how the x-men started this fight?

The war started because Cyclops is an increasingly hostile and extreme leader. Cap knew that it wouldn't be easy getting Hope and that he would need back up. Here's the difference between the Hope and Scarlet Witch situation. For starters the mutants aren't a race and she didn't kill anyone, she de-powered them. If Cyclops had a hold of her, they would kill her or imprison her. The Avengers had no negative plans for Hope and wanted to cooperate with the X-Men, but that wasn't going to happen because Cyclops hold the re-powering of mutants over the lives of everyone in the galaxy. Sure, the Phoenix Force could restore these people's powers, but it could also easily end up destroying the Earth just like every other planet it's gone through.

Rachel is one example of a the Phoenix Force being able to be controlled, but Jean Grey couldn't do it. And Hope is a hormonal teenage girl. Letting a hormonal teenage girl become possessed by the most destructive entity in the universe? Yeah, that's a good idea. The Phoenix Force is a time bomb. Every time it coming to Earth has meant nothing good.

Yeah, they improved the world at first, until they you know, Namor destroyed the capital city of Wakanda and killed thousands of people.

Cyclops is an increasingly hostile and extreme leader because an entire race of people are on the brink of extinction. Despite the fact that the x-men have saved the planet countless times, they are treated like red headed step children by other superheroes. The avengers work and take orders for a government that continues to persecute a nearly extinct race of people. A government that Sends machines created for sole purpose of mutant genocide to  "protect" them. World leaders openly attack Mutants with sentinels. What exactly would you have him do? Hold hands and hold protests in the streets? 
 
Cap should have known that he wasn't getting the last hope for mutant kind. Cyclops has been nothing but reasonable with the avengers. They ask him to hand over Quentin Quire to be arrested because he made politicians and world leaders admit to producing weapons of mass destruction and murder. He was even willing to hand over Magneto when he was accused of killing Anti Mutant Protesters. He brought an army to The X-mens doorstep because he knew damn well they weren't going to hand over the last hope at surviving extinction.... especially when Cyclops own son, and Hopes Father comes from the freaking futureand tells them that if the avengers get Hope..she will die and the world will end.  
 
No Rachel is One of Many examples of The PF being controlled. Jean grey is not hope summers. Hormonal teenage girl? Well that's leagues ahead of Insane, reality warping super-B.
 
For starters the Mutants are a race..homo superior. No here's the difference between Hope Summers and Scarlet Witch. The scarlet witch reality warped reality to make Humans subservient to mutants. She used her powers to attack American Cities and is responsible for the Death of Vision and Hawkeye. And she is single handily responsible for the near extinction of an entire race of people. And yet the Avengers dont feel the need to take wanda into custody for "her own good".  Wanda abused her powers and is  partially   responsible  for the near  destruction  of the multiverse.  If cyclops decided that Wanda was too dangerous to be kept alive i hardily see it as a wrong choice. What comics are you reading? The avengers came to take hope to user her as a weapon against the X-men and the PF. They stated this. How is that not a negative, considering they were making the world a better place? I think its funny that you keep ignoring the fact that the PF DIDN'T destroy the earth. And the PF made the world BETTER...and Captain America still wanted to KILL Summers and the rest of the PF hosts. Captain America risked lives of everyone in the Multiverse thanks to His decision not to deal with Scarlet Witch. But he'swilling to commit murder when the PF has made the world better? Yeah...right. 
 
Yup he sure did...and Namor did so after The Avengers declared war on the X-men. The PF didnt make Namor destroy Wakanda. Namor decided to destroy Wakanda to teach the Avengers a lesson about Home Invasions. The Avengers came to their home, attacked their children, took their messiah, and used the most devastating weapon to the  mutant race against the x-men. Namor has declared war on the continents for less. And the Avengers have only their selves to blame. You cant do everything in your power to incite a war and then go SEE I TOLD YOU THEY WERE EVIL!!!! when the people you're attacking retaliate.

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