AVENGERS VS X MEN: YOUR THOUGHTS SO FAR

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#1 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

1ST AND FOREMOST I AM NOT YELLING, I'M JUST TO LAZY TO WRITE IN LOWER/UPPERCASE LETTERS LOL

ALRIGHT, SO FAR I GREATLY DISLIKE AVENGERS VS. X MEN..U ASK WHY?

I DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY MAKE MUTANTS LOOK LIKE "MEAN" PEOPLE BECAUSE OF CYCLOPS ACTIONS. I CANNOT RECALL A MOMENT WHERE CYCLOPS BLASTED HIS ENEMY, OR FOE, WITHOUT PROPER CAUSE.

2, THEY MAKE HOPE LOOK LIKE A GOD, I SAY THIS BECAUSE IT TOOK JEAN GREY (THE REAL PHOENIX) PRACTICE TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE. SO HOW DOES HOPE KNOW HOW TO USE IT IF SHE NEVER MIMICKED IT BEFORE? (SOME MAY SAY THAT SHE IS THE REINCARNATION OF JEAN)

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?

4, WHEN THE AVENGERS WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE HELICARRIER, WHY DIDN'T SCOTT JUST TAKE OFF HIS VISOR AND SEND THEM TO KINGDOM COME? IF HE IS AN EXCELLENT TACTICIAN, WOULDN'T HE KNOW TO DO THAT? HELL I WOULD'VE LOL

5, SCOTT TELLS STORM TO TAKE OUT THE JETS.......STORM, REALLY? WHY WOULDN'T HE SEND MAGNETO A.K.A THE MASTER OF MAGNETISM, TO TAKE OUT THE JETS?

6, WHY DIDN'T LOGAN JUST ACT LIKE HE SIDED WITH THE X-MEN THEN AT THE RIGHT MOMENT STAB THE BASTARD CHILD AND END IT?

7, SINCE WHEN DID THE PHOENIX FORCE DESTROY PLANETS WHEN IT LOOKS FOR ITS HOST?

8, IF THEIR FIGHTING AT A BEACH, AND STORM'S POWERS BECOME EASIER TO USE, AND DEADLIER, WHEN SHE IS AROUND A LARGE VOLUME OF WATER, WHY HASN'T SHE SPAWNED THE MOTHER OF ALL HURRICANES YET?

I TELL YA, THOSE DISNEY WRITERS ARE SOMETHING ELSE. AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT BENDIS OR FRACTIONS REP IN WRITING FOR MARVEL, AT THIS POINT, THEY SUCK GLUTEUS MAXIMUS TO ME. MY 7 YEAR OLD NEPHEW WRITES BETTER THAN THEM...HOW? BECAUSE HE WRITES WITH COMMON SENSE.

BUT, HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT SO FAR? LIKE IT? DISLIKE IT? WHY? WHY NOT?

#2 Posted by cattlebattle (12275 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerogod said:

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?


This part just made me LOL
#3 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: lol but its the truth, and in asian culture, it was always the tiger vs the dragon, not a bird smh

#4 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's be honest. This isn't Avengers vs X-Men. This is Captain America vs Cyclops. That's the reality.

#5 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX: lowkey, it is

#6 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is yet another poorly-written, useless event with even more useless tie-ins. Both sides of the argument are wrong, and the two leaders (the two best leaders in the Marvel U) are not only acting like children, but are being stupid, and are acting entirely out of character. I hate this event, and everything else like it. Damn Marvel for being uncreative, and allowing such moronic, incapable, and incompetent writers to come up with these lame excuse for "events." I hate this, wish for it to end quickly, and may God have mercy on the writers' soul.

Now, I will continue to pay for The Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, and Avengers Academy- four of the very, very few things still worth reading from this publishing company. I grew up on Marvel. I love each and everyone of their characters (when they're written correctly, and taken seriously), but these pointless, thoughtless events, must be put to an end. I love you Marvel, but Jesus tap-dancing Christ, stop it. Stop it, please before I shift to exclusively paying for titles from Image and DC, companies who obviously know how to write with creativity (most of the time from DC, all of the time from Image).

...And that's what I think of this event.

#7 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

I think this is yet another poorly-written, useless event with even more useless tie-ins. Both sides of the argument are wrong, and the two leaders (the two best leaders in the Marvel U) are not only acting like children, but are being stupid, and are acting entirely out of character. I hate this event, and everything else like it. Damn Marvel for being uncreative, and allowing such moronic, incapable, and incompetent writers to come up with these lame excuse for "events." I hate this, wish for it to end quickly, and may God have mercy on the writers' soul.

Now, I will continue to pay for The Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, and Avengers Academy- four of the very, very few things still worth reading from this publishing company. I grew up on Marvel. I love each and everyone of their characters (when they're written correctly, and taken seriously), but these pointless, thoughtless events, must be put to an end. I love you Marvel, but Jesus tap-dancing Christ, stop it. Stop it, please before I shift to exclusively paying for titles from Image and DC, companies who obviously know how to write with creativity (most of the time from DC, all of the time from Image).

...And that's what I think of this event.

You sir need a medal of this.

#8 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod said:

@TheGreyOutcastX: lowkey, it is

When Tony Stark tells you that you need to take a step back before you become like he was in Civil War, you know there is something wrong with how you are handling this. Only good thing about AvX #3 is that now Cap is being written like the unreasonable idiot/bully. Cyclops is looking a tad better.

#9 Edited by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

When I read a single issue, I always flip through random pages in the book, when I opened AVX to a random page I saw my favorite character, Scott Summers, kneeing his granddaughter one of the only people in the world that he loves in the face in order to make her summon the phoenix force. I feel like Marvel is kneeing me in the face with every page I turn.

An extra from #1 said it best: "Wow. That's it. I'm moving. I'm done"

#10 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

When Tony Stark tells you that you need to take a step back before you become like he was in Civil War, you know there is something wrong with how you are handling this.

AMEN! if tony see's it, the tipsy superhero...now come on

@Gambit1024: True! very true!

@BlackArmor said:

I saw my favorite character, Scott Summers, kneeing his granddaughter one of the only people in the world that he loves in the face in order to make her summon the phoenix force. I feel like Marvel is kneeing me in the face with every page I turn.

More like optic blasting the middle finger in our face lol

#11 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@xerogod said:

@TheGreyOutcastX: lowkey, it is

When Tony Stark tells you that you need to take a step back before you become like he was in Civil War, you know there is something wrong with how you are handling this. Only good thing about AvX #3 is that now Cap is being written like the unreasonable idiot/bully. Cyclops is looking a tad better.

And when Magneto, a known terrorist, is telling Cyclops to ease up, there's something very wrong happening. It goes both ways, lol.

#12 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@xerogod said:

@TheGreyOutcastX: lowkey, it is

When Tony Stark tells you that you need to take a step back before you become like he was in Civil War, you know there is something wrong with how you are handling this. Only good thing about AvX #3 is that now Cap is being written like the unreasonable idiot/bully. Cyclops is looking a tad better.

And when Magneto, a known terrorist, is telling Cyclops to ease up, there's something very wrong happening. It goes both ways, lol.

LOL I know, hence why this really is just Captain America vs Cyclops as opposed to Avengers vs X-Men.

#13 Posted by x_29 (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

TOP 5 REASONS THIS EVENT WILL LIKELY SUCK IN THE END!!!!!!!

5. No rooting sides: So far Cap and Cyclops are acting like irrational beings as well as some of the other characters. Just like X-sanction, all you had to do was talk and there would be no fight.

4. Super-hero vs Super-Hero events are not as cool as they use to be: After civil war and having fatigue from too many events, super hero vs superhero spectacles seem like a big facepalm, especially when they are made into an event. ( to me at least.)

3. The tie-in books contain all of the substance and fights, which leaves the main book as mere filter: You know you have a crappy event on your hand when the tie-ins are more substantial than the main book!!!!!! This leaves the main series as mere filter.

2. Cyclops: I will just come out and say it; Cyclops is tony stark. If you have read Civil War you will know where I am coming from. This as a whole makes the X-men seem like the people to root against.

1. WINNER: AVENGERS!!! If you have read the solicits for the upcoming issues or even read the previous issue, you know that the Avengers are going to be the "winners." And it is not just because they have a movie coming out. It is because the Avengers are THE team at Marvel.They're not going to lose to the x-men.

#14 Posted by GothamRed (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly in this my big issue is that I don't find any of the X-Men likable at all, so everything is really one sided here, I want the avengers to win, end of story. Now that being said in this most recent issue, Cap has begun acting fairly irrational, even to the point of both Tony and Logan both calling him out on it (though Tony's connection to the Civil War comparing Cap to him from then didn't really ring true for me, he might be a bit off but I'd definitely say Cyclops fills Tony's role closer than Cap does, even if there are some similarities). That being said Cyclops seems to have become completely irrational, not just in this event, but in general (It's one of the reasons I stopped picking up the blue team books after the first issues after Schism, minus the New Mutants). Aside from the sheer fact that 5 of the 7 other members of his main team being former villain (and another having the powers of one), almost all of said villains have called him out for acting just like they used to (yet for some reason still follow him). Cyclops has almost transitioned over the years into being a straight up villain, in fact half of his dialogue in this special sounds like villainous monologuing. His plans for Hope also make him seem psychotic, or at least delusional. His plan is to use Hope to have the phoenix, the force that has caused nothing but pain in his life, restore the mutants de-powered during M-Day (also why not just have Wanda do it, I mean she did it in the first place and she's back, is he afraid Magneto will yell at him or something? The X-Men really need to watch Star Trek 2 and pay close attention to a very important line from it). Even if the Phoenix does by chance do this, it still has a high chance of flat out destroying the Earth, at which point re-powering the mutant won't matter cause they'll all be dead. Seriously Cyke, 200 mutants are better than none at all. It's a big problem that Logan is the only one acting rationally, just kill Hope and the phoenix will stop being drawn to earth, granted even this might backfire and the phoenix might just wipe out earth out of spite for killing its host, but still. Hope is also on the fence of acting rationally and acting selfish, I get that she's scared and confused about all of this, not helped by the fact the Cyclops has explained exactly nothing to her about what she's supposed to be or do, but why not just say let the avengers try to protect her from the phoenix, an option she had since the start of the event, instead of running off on her own and hoping for the best? But we still have nine more issues to go so I'm still looking for some glimmer of hope in this idiot plot.

#15 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@GothamRed: ehh i guess, but they are writing cyclops as this selfish leader who wants his dreams to manifest no matter what the cost.

--Reincarnation of Magneto perhaps? lol

#16 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

I think this is yet another poorly-written, useless event with even more useless tie-ins. Both sides of the argument are wrong, and the two leaders (the two best leaders in the Marvel U) are not only acting like children, but are being stupid, and are acting entirely out of character. I hate this event, and everything else like it. Damn Marvel for being uncreative, and allowing such moronic, incapable, and incompetent writers to come up with these lame excuse for "events." I hate this, wish for it to end quickly, and may God have mercy on the writers' soul.

Now, I will continue to pay for The Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, and Avengers Academy- four of the very, very few things still worth reading from this publishing company. I grew up on Marvel. I love each and everyone of their characters (when they're written correctly, and taken seriously), but these pointless, thoughtless events, must be put to an end. I love you Marvel, but Jesus tap-dancing Christ, stop it. Stop it, please before I shift to exclusively paying for titles from Image and DC, companies who obviously know how to write with creativity (most of the time from DC, all of the time from Image).

...And that's what I think of this event.

Agree 100%. I bought the first two issues hoping that this event was going to be different. I truly hoped that Marvel was going to do something different...but it's all the same. And the Vs. titles whole "this isn't a part of continuity...this is just fights" thing...has me seriously disgusted with this company.

Wolverine, Scarlet Spider, Amazing Spider-Man and Daredevil are the only books from this company that I get on a regular basis.

Venom and X-Force are interesting me as of late though

#17 Edited by GothamRed (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz: Wolverine and the X-Men is a fun book, you should try that one out if you get the chance

@xerogod: Maybe, but it's not making his side of the argument look very good, and even magneto is calling him out.

#18 Posted by Dman1366 (528 posts) - - Show Bio

WatX is a good book

that being said. I also hate how sudden this book has taken place after Regenisis. Seriously, the Extinction team has literally JUST finished their first mission, and the Jean Grey School has barely even seen a calm day. It feel too forced from the X-Men side. Marvel should take a step back from all these events, and just let these books ride out for a little. I mean WatX isn't even on their 10th issue yet! Plus, their making Wolverines mission to save the school seem like he's some sort of psychotic child murderer. I am not a fan of Wolverine to begin with, but they could atleast dialog him from his headmaster stance. idk, maybe I'm just a cynic.

I am digging the Scarlet Spider too, check out Avenging Spiderman, it's like a new marvel team-up

#19 Posted by papad1992 (6811 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod said:

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?

6, WHY DIDN'T LOGAN JUST ACT LIKE HE SIDED WITH THE X-MEN THEN AT THE RIGHT MOMENT STAB THE BASTARD CHILD AND END IT?

These two made me laugh hard!!

#20 Posted by entropy_aegis (13596 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like Steve so called tactical abilities are being put to the test here.

#21 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1388 posts) - - Show Bio

I have liked it a lot so far and can't wait to follow the rest of the story. as far as the mutants being portrayed as mean, well they are due to being hated by non-meta/mutant humans. They believe that the phoenix is bringing the rebirth of the mutant race (meaning helping them become the somewhat ruler of the earth). The art I like as well (not sure why so many people are hating on it? (must just hate some artist for the sake of hating them?)

all the tie-ins have been entertaining with the only exception being the AvX vs which in my mind is fun to read but im affraid it's going to be used to build up certain characters instead of following what we already know (Thing in no scenario will beat Namor anywhere near water).

as far as the redhead in asia I bet they are going to put some spin on it where the red head in kun'lung and hope are somehow two parts of one person or that jean was hiding something from scott (wouldn't it be funny if the kung fu hope was actually the daughter of jean and logan? oh snap hot damn.

i'm blabbering, but i like the series and am excited to see where it goes, hell they got skrulls and gladiator getting involved gotta be good. bring on the annihilators

#22 Posted by Mileylovestina (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it enjoyable not amazing but enjoyable

#23 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod said:

1ST AND FOREMOST I AM NOT YELLING, I'M JUST TO LAZY TO WRITE IN LOWER/UPPERCASE LETTERS LOL

ALRIGHT, SO FAR I GREATLY DISLIKE AVENGERS VS. X MEN..U ASK WHY?

I DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY MAKE MUTANTS LOOK LIKE "MEAN" PEOPLE BECAUSE OF CYCLOPS ACTIONS. I CANNOT RECALL A MOMENT WHERE CYCLOPS BLASTED HIS ENEMY, OR FOE, WITHOUT PROPER CAUSE.

2, THEY MAKE HOPE LOOK LIKE A GOD, I SAY THIS BECAUSE IT TOOK JEAN GREY (THE REAL PHOENIX) PRACTICE TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE. SO HOW DOES HOPE KNOW HOW TO USE IT IF SHE NEVER MIMICKED IT BEFORE? (SOME MAY SAY THAT SHE IS THE REINCARNATION OF JEAN)

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?

4, WHEN THE AVENGERS WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE HELICARRIER, WHY DIDN'T SCOTT JUST TAKE OFF HIS VISOR AND SEND THEM TO KINGDOM COME? IF HE IS AN EXCELLENT TACTICIAN, WOULDN'T HE KNOW TO DO THAT? HELL I WOULD'VE LOL

5, SCOTT TELLS STORM TO TAKE OUT THE JETS.......STORM, REALLY? WHY WOULDN'T HE SEND MAGNETO A.K.A THE MASTER OF MAGNETISM, TO TAKE OUT THE JETS?

6, WHY DIDN'T LOGAN JUST ACT LIKE HE SIDED WITH THE X-MEN THEN AT THE RIGHT MOMENT STAB THE BASTARD CHILD AND END IT?

7, SINCE WHEN DID THE PHOENIX FORCE DESTROY PLANETS WHEN IT LOOKS FOR ITS HOST?

8, IF THEIR FIGHTING AT A BEACH, AND STORM'S POWERS BECOME EASIER TO USE, AND DEADLIER, WHEN SHE IS AROUND A LARGE VOLUME OF WATER, WHY HASN'T SHE SPAWNED THE MOTHER OF ALL HURRICANES YET?

I TELL YA, THOSE DISNEY WRITERS ARE SOMETHING ELSE. AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT BENDIS OR FRACTIONS REP IN WRITING FOR MARVEL, AT THIS POINT, THEY SUCK GLUTEUS MAXIMUS TO ME. MY 7 YEAR OLD NEPHEW WRITES BETTER THAN THEM...HOW? BECAUSE HE WRITES WITH COMMON SENSE.

BUT, HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT SO FAR? LIKE IT? DISLIKE IT? WHY? WHY NOT?

1) Cap came to his house and made unreasonable demands and pretty much asked for a fight. Proper cause.

2) She looks like she is struggling with the force to me. If she was such a god, she would've wiped out the avengers instead of running.

3) Learn to do a simple Google search. The dragon & the phoenix have had ties in Chinese Mythology. Excuse the writers for using the and trying to explore and expand their universe.

4) I'm confused, you were saying you don't remember a time when Cyclops blasted someone without cause but now you are saying Cap gave cause for Scott to blast him before Cap even landed?

5) Are you saying having Storm take apart the Jets wasn't just as effective? Maybe he had Magneto in mind for something else? Magneto does have other uses like a force field.

6) Why doesn't Batman just kill Joker? Why doesn't Superman just end all crime w/his skills? Who knows.

7) Not too familiar, can't really answer that.

8) Maybe she didn't want to get her fellow X-Men killed and also, the Avengers are not exactly bad guys and her husband is there too.

#24 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops has a plan.

#25 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Course he does. He's always been the Man with the Plan.

#26 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7200 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to admit,  both the New Avengers/Avengers tie-ins have been a load of crap compared to the X-In's, which is probably why they're making the X-Men look like the "bad guys" in the actual story itself.

#27 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

1) Cap came to his house and made unreasonable demands and pretty much asked for a fight. Proper cause.

2) She looks like she is struggling with the force to me. If she was such a god, she would've wiped out the avengers instead of running.

3) Learn to do a simple Google search. The dragon & the phoenix have had ties in Chinese Mythology. Excuse the writers for using the and trying to explore and expand their universe.

4) I'm confused, you were saying you don't remember a time when Cyclops blasted someone without cause but now you are saying Cap gave cause for Scott to blast him before Cap even landed?

5) Are you saying having Storm take apart the Jets wasn't just as effective? Maybe he had Magneto in mind for something else? Magneto does have other uses like a force field.

6) Why doesn't Batman just kill Joker? Why doesn't Superman just end all crime w/his skills? Who knows.

7) Not too familiar, can't really answer that.

8) Maybe she didn't want to get her fellow X-Men killed and also, the Avengers are not exactly bad guys and her husband is there too.

1) Cap only said to take Hope into custody to insure the safety of 7 billion people, the phoenix force is obliterating every planet in its path, would you not want to safeguard Hope as well when billions and billions lives have already been taken? Where is he being unreasonable at? Ensuring the lives of billions of innocent people must be an unreasonable demand now I guess.

2) Where did you see her struggle? She easily took out wolverine, spiderman, and the young x-men without even breaking a sweat, and the only thing that was broke was transonics nose.

3) FYI, I know about Fenghuang and it's relationship to the chinese dragon. The phoenix and the dragon are used as symbols of marriage, however, Fenghaung aka phoenix, was never depicted as a destructive force, it had a more motherly approach associated with it. And it usually visited places filled with peace to bestow blessings upon the people, not fire.

4) No, I'm talking about when Magneto did the speedball special with colossus and took out the Helicarrier and all the avengers where coming down. Cyclops blasted a sentinel that was miles away, but didn't blast deadly opponents that was a few hundred feet away.Hmmm interesting....

5) And Storm commands one of Earths most deadliest weapons that takes the lives of millions of people a year. But it is simple logic, if i hired a doctor i would put him in a hospital, if i hired a teacher i would put him in a school, does it make sense to put a teacher in a hospital? Same thing with this instance, Storm can use her powers to affect mutlitple people while magneto focuses on the jets and destroy them, or he could simply reprogram the jets to attack the avengers like he did with sentinels and humans. Bad writing i tell ya.

6) Wolverine already knows the outcome when the phoenix force has a host, all the x-men do. So why would he place an innocent child in the same position as his deceased love?

7) That's the thing, nobody is familiar with the phoenix force destroying planets just to get to its host.

8) Who said she had to kill anybody? Storm doesn't kill, she could just distract them while Emma or the Stepford cuckoos place the avengers in a coma or something.

The creativity and logic in these comics are terrible

#28 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod: "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy

It's a comic, learn to let go.

#29 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupremeHyperion: the art is actually decent, the images could use more drama to make the battles look difficult

and namor becomes practically invincible in water, and rocks breakdown in water soooo lol

im glad you did lol

#30 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers: but the characters are humans, with human emotions

are you human? do u have emotions?

Even though it is fiction, they still use a human context, and that's the thing, COMIC FICTION SHOULD MAKE SENSE BUT IT DOESNT lol

Come on now bro...the three little pigs make more sense then some of these comics, and they're animals

#31 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't understand is if the Phoenix is currently destroying planets to get to the host, won't it stop destroying planets once it gets a host? Im personally team Cyclops all the way.. I think he does have a plan and as far as tactics he always seems to be better at it than wolverine and he has proven it time and time again.. Wolverine's only option is to kill hope. He doesn't even want to consider an alternative. That's fine but you can't then make it seem as if Cyclops is being unreasonable and your all holy for wanting to find another way. Why should he be perfectly fine with you killing one of your own especially with the lecture from Logan that lead to schism? There are lots of mutants that could destroy the earth if they really wanted. If Shadow King took over storm would Wolvie's first option be to kill her? I think not.

#32 Posted by Nightcrawler23 (775 posts) - - Show Bio

I think MARVEL needs to look at this more . . . reasonably. People must die on both sides. That is key. I don't care who. I'm not looking for shock value. I just think that the two most deadly factions in Marvel are going to fight, and that no one will die. Also, at this point, even though it makes no damn sense, it looks like the avengers are going to win. Which is okay. Mutants are used to being oppressed.

#33 Posted by Daycrawler (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod said:

1ST AND FOREMOST I AM NOT YELLING, I'M JUST TO LAZY TO WRITE IN LOWER/UPPERCASE LETTERS LOL

ALRIGHT, SO FAR I GREATLY DISLIKE AVENGERS VS. X MEN..U ASK WHY?

I DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY MAKE MUTANTS LOOK LIKE "MEAN" PEOPLE BECAUSE OF CYCLOPS ACTIONS. I CANNOT RECALL A MOMENT WHERE CYCLOPS BLASTED HIS ENEMY, OR FOE, WITHOUT PROPER CAUSE.

2, THEY MAKE HOPE LOOK LIKE A GOD, I SAY THIS BECAUSE IT TOOK JEAN GREY (THE REAL PHOENIX) PRACTICE TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE. SO HOW DOES HOPE KNOW HOW TO USE IT IF SHE NEVER MIMICKED IT BEFORE? (SOME MAY SAY THAT SHE IS THE REINCARNATION OF JEAN)

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?

4, WHEN THE AVENGERS WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE HELICARRIER, WHY DIDN'T SCOTT JUST TAKE OFF HIS VISOR AND SEND THEM TO KINGDOM COME? IF HE IS AN EXCELLENT TACTICIAN, WOULDN'T HE KNOW TO DO THAT? HELL I WOULD'VE LOL

5, SCOTT TELLS STORM TO TAKE OUT THE JETS.......STORM, REALLY? WHY WOULDN'T HE SEND MAGNETO A.K.A THE MASTER OF MAGNETISM, TO TAKE OUT THE JETS?

6, WHY DIDN'T LOGAN JUST ACT LIKE HE SIDED WITH THE X-MEN THEN AT THE RIGHT MOMENT STAB THE BASTARD CHILD AND END IT?

7, SINCE WHEN DID THE PHOENIX FORCE DESTROY PLANETS WHEN IT LOOKS FOR ITS HOST?

8, IF THEIR FIGHTING AT A BEACH, AND STORM'S POWERS BECOME EASIER TO USE, AND DEADLIER, WHEN SHE IS AROUND A LARGE VOLUME OF WATER, WHY HASN'T SHE SPAWNED THE MOTHER OF ALL HURRICANES YET?

I TELL YA, THOSE DISNEY WRITERS ARE SOMETHING ELSE. AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT BENDIS OR FRACTIONS REP IN WRITING FOR MARVEL, AT THIS POINT, THEY SUCK GLUTEUS MAXIMUS TO ME. MY 7 YEAR OLD NEPHEW WRITES BETTER THAN THEM...HOW? BECAUSE HE WRITES WITH COMMON SENSE.

BUT, HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT SO FAR? LIKE IT? DISLIKE IT? WHY? WHY NOT?

1) Disagree that it makes MUTANTS look like mean peeps. Scott, sure. Some of his Extinction team, yeah. But most of the other mutants so far have just appeared to be defending themselves and been bewildered at what the heck is going on and why Logan is attacking them. Anyways, Scott is a vastly different character now. This change, contrary to what some people are whining on about, hasn't just happened since Schism. Schism was just a final tipping point for him, where things could now seriously go to villain-town for him. He been gradually getting more bad-ass and inward looking (re: mutant survival) since Messiah Complex at the very least.

2) I'd say that Hope has been shown to mimic/master most powers fairly quickly and easily. Part of here power seems to be not only mimicry, but the ability to understand how to use it too. Plus, who says that the Phoenix isn't giving here a 'helping hand' whilst it speeds toward her. Y'know, the whole 'the closer it gets, the more powerful she gets' kinda deal. In AvX 3 she has a vision of the Phoenix when looking in the mirror.

3) Isn't Kun Lun like a stranded alien city that just happens to appear in Asia intermittently? Given that, and the fact that the whole plot is yet to be revealed, I'm cool at the moment with a red head popping up in a mystical alien city based around a crashed spaceship. I like the fact that they're integrating the two MU mythos. Given all the weird sh!t that regularly happens in the MU, I can easily live with a read head in asia!

4) Cos Scott ain't a villian (even it he is apparently heading that way). His plan would be to stop them, not kill them. If you read the Uncanny X-Men #11 tie-in, he's playing a very political game (initiating the Avengers protocols which basically slams the 'facist' Avengers for invading Utopia in a PR statement to the media). If you read AvX 3, Cyke clearly has a plan that is as much about brains as it is brawn. He knows killing / maiming Avengers and giving a huge public display of full on mutant power will alienate the public and would mean the Avengers would take the gloves off and possibly start killing mutants. He IS an excellent tactictian, and what he's doing thus far is way smarter than just unleashing all out war when the Avengers first dropped and hoping you win through brute force alone.

5) See above point for some reasons, plus he knows he can trust Storm absolutely not to take things too far. Magneto? Not so much. Both Storm and Magneto are big guns, Scott just used the right one.

6) C'mon, really? Scott, Hope and most of the senior X-Men would never have fallen for that. That's even dumber that Cap showing up with a helicarrier full of Avengers and saying 'gimme' and expecting it not to all go south!

7) Yeah, good point actually. I don't remember this happening either. Possibly some reason for this behaviour will be revealed. Dark Phoenix did destroy a planet. Guess it's crazy planet-destroying escapades have been off-panel until now?

8) See points 4 and 5!

Anyway, I'm liking the event so far, though not full on loving it yet. Hoping this is because things will escalate and build as we progress, given there's still 9 issues to go. The Secret Avengers, Wolverine and the X-Men and Uncanny X-Men tie-ins have all been excellent so far. I'm very happy that the tie-ins have been limited to core Avengers/X-Men titles, all of which I get. Happy that there are not a billion mini-series, one-shots and Hulk/Spider-man/Other ongoing tie-ins that I need to get too.

#34 Posted by Baddamdog (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerogod: Sorry, have you realised yet that the red head in the New Avengers tie in isn't actually Asian. If you had actually read the issue you would know.

The rest of the stuff you said I kinda agree with...

#35 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daycrawler said:

@xerogod said:

1ST AND FOREMOST I AM NOT YELLING, I'M JUST TO LAZY TO WRITE IN LOWER/UPPERCASE LETTERS LOL

ALRIGHT, SO FAR I GREATLY DISLIKE AVENGERS VS. X MEN..U ASK WHY?

I DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY MAKE MUTANTS LOOK LIKE "MEAN" PEOPLE BECAUSE OF CYCLOPS ACTIONS. I CANNOT RECALL A MOMENT WHERE CYCLOPS BLASTED HIS ENEMY, OR FOE, WITHOUT PROPER CAUSE.

2, THEY MAKE HOPE LOOK LIKE A GOD, I SAY THIS BECAUSE IT TOOK JEAN GREY (THE REAL PHOENIX) PRACTICE TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE. SO HOW DOES HOPE KNOW HOW TO USE IT IF SHE NEVER MIMICKED IT BEFORE? (SOME MAY SAY THAT SHE IS THE REINCARNATION OF JEAN)

3, THE IRON FIST DRAGON TIE IN IS COW DUNG. SERIOUSLY WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT ABOUT? A RED HEAD IN ASIA? DID THEY EVEN KNOW ABOUT HAIR DYE BACK THEN?

4, WHEN THE AVENGERS WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE HELICARRIER, WHY DIDN'T SCOTT JUST TAKE OFF HIS VISOR AND SEND THEM TO KINGDOM COME? IF HE IS AN EXCELLENT TACTICIAN, WOULDN'T HE KNOW TO DO THAT? HELL I WOULD'VE LOL

5, SCOTT TELLS STORM TO TAKE OUT THE JETS.......STORM, REALLY? WHY WOULDN'T HE SEND MAGNETO A.K.A THE MASTER OF MAGNETISM, TO TAKE OUT THE JETS?

6, WHY DIDN'T LOGAN JUST ACT LIKE HE SIDED WITH THE X-MEN THEN AT THE RIGHT MOMENT STAB THE BASTARD CHILD AND END IT?

7, SINCE WHEN DID THE PHOENIX FORCE DESTROY PLANETS WHEN IT LOOKS FOR ITS HOST?

8, IF THEIR FIGHTING AT A BEACH, AND STORM'S POWERS BECOME EASIER TO USE, AND DEADLIER, WHEN SHE IS AROUND A LARGE VOLUME OF WATER, WHY HASN'T SHE SPAWNED THE MOTHER OF ALL HURRICANES YET?

I TELL YA, THOSE DISNEY WRITERS ARE SOMETHING ELSE. AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT BENDIS OR FRACTIONS REP IN WRITING FOR MARVEL, AT THIS POINT, THEY SUCK GLUTEUS MAXIMUS TO ME. MY 7 YEAR OLD NEPHEW WRITES BETTER THAN THEM...HOW? BECAUSE HE WRITES WITH COMMON SENSE.

BUT, HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT SO FAR? LIKE IT? DISLIKE IT? WHY? WHY NOT?

1) Disagree that it makes MUTANTS look like mean peeps. Scott, sure. Some of his Extinction team, yeah. But most of the other mutants so far have just appeared to be defending themselves and been bewildered at what the heck is going on and why Logan is attacking them. Anyways, Scott is a vastly different character now. This change, contrary to what some people are whining on about, hasn't just happened since Schism. Schism was just a final tipping point for him, where things could now seriously go to villain-town for him. He been gradually getting more bad-ass and inward looking (re: mutant survival) since Messiah Complex at the very least.

2) I'd say that Hope has been shown to mimic/master most powers fairly quickly and easily. Part of here power seems to be not only mimicry, but the ability to understand how to use it too. Plus, who says that the Phoenix isn't giving here a 'helping hand' whilst it speeds toward her. Y'know, the whole 'the closer it gets, the more powerful she gets' kinda deal. In AvX 3 she has a vision of the Phoenix when looking in the mirror.

3) Isn't Kun Lun like a stranded alien city that just happens to appear in Asia intermittently? Given that, and the fact that the whole plot is yet to be revealed, I'm cool at the moment with a red head popping up in a mystical alien city based around a crashed spaceship. I like the fact that they're integrating the two MU mythos. Given all the weird sh!t that regularly happens in the MU, I can easily live with a read head in asia!

4) Cos Scott ain't a villian (even it he is apparently heading that way). His plan would be to stop them, not kill them. If you read the Uncanny X-Men #11 tie-in, he's playing a very political game (initiating the Avengers protocols which basically slams the 'facist' Avengers for invading Utopia in a PR statement to the media). If you read AvX 3, Cyke clearly has a plan that is as much about brains as it is brawn. He knows killing / maiming Avengers and giving a huge public display of full on mutant power will alienate the public and would mean the Avengers would take the gloves off and possibly start killing mutants. He IS an excellent tactictian, and what he's doing thus far is way smarter than just unleashing all out war when the Avengers first dropped and hoping you win through brute force alone.

5) See above point for some reasons, plus he knows he can trust Storm absolutely not to take things too far. Magneto? Not so much. Both Storm and Magneto are big guns, Scott just used the right one.

6) C'mon, really? Scott, Hope and most of the senior X-Men would never have fallen for that. That's even dumber that Cap showing up with a helicarrier full of Avengers and saying 'gimme' and expecting it not to all go south!

7) Yeah, good point actually. I don't remember this happening either. Possibly some reason for this behaviour will be revealed. Dark Phoenix did destroy a planet. Guess it's crazy planet-destroying escapades have been off-panel until now?

8) See points 4 and 5!

Anyway, I'm liking the event so far, though not full on loving it yet. Hoping this is because things will escalate and build as we progress, given there's still 9 issues to go. The Secret Avengers, Wolverine and the X-Men and Uncanny X-Men tie-ins have all been excellent so far. I'm very happy that the tie-ins have been limited to core Avengers/X-Men titles, all of which I get. Happy that there are not a billion mini-series, one-shots and Hulk/Spider-man/Other ongoing tie-ins that I need to get too.

Bravo, bravo. Excellent post.

#36 Edited by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I'm exhausted from expressing my disdain for this event and Marvel's propensity to ruin characters.

#37 Posted by Deranged Midget (17598 posts) - - Show Bio

If I had to give it a rating, it would be barely above average.

Moderator
#38 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5679 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dman1366 said:

@GothamRed WatX is a good book

that being said. I also hate how sudden this book has taken place after Regenisis. Seriously, the Extinction team has literally JUST finished their first mission, and the Jean Grey School has barely even seen a calm day. It feel too forced from the X-Men side. Marvel should take a step back from all these events, and just let these books ride out for a little. I mean WatX isn't even on their 10th issue yet! Plus, their making Wolverines mission to save the school seem like he's some sort of psychotic child murderer. I am not a fan of Wolverine to begin with, but they could atleast dialog him from his headmaster stance. idk, maybe I'm just a cynic.

@Kallarkz I am digging the Scarlet Spider too, check out Avenging Spiderman, it's like a new marvel team-up

I agree with all this! I think that Marvel really needs to slow down on their events and I really didn't like the way that this event seems too forced since we haven't gotten used to the new team set ups yet since they just spring another event out of nowhere.
#39 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

i really dislike how marvel is handling this so far. no intensity to the fight, to the dialogue. so far is like a pissing contest between steve and scott. nowadays its really hard to like marvel. thank god for venom, w&txm

#40 Posted by Enosisik (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

Redheaded Asians are a problem but green,blue,purple,red,pink,yellow hair and skin are perfectly normal lol.

#41 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daycrawler said:

1) Disagree that it makes MUTANTS look like mean peeps. Scott, sure. Some of his Extinction team, yeah. But most of the other mutants so far have just appeared to be defending themselves and been bewildered at what the heck is going on and why Logan is attacking them. Anyways, Scott is a vastly different character now. This change, contrary to what some people are whining on about, hasn't just happened since Schism. Schism was just a final tipping point for him, where things could now seriously go to villain-town for him. He been gradually getting more bad-ass and inward looking (re: mutant survival) since Messiah Complex at the very least.

2) I'd say that Hope has been shown to mimic/master most powers fairly quickly and easily. Part of here power seems to be not only mimicry, but the ability to understand how to use it too. Plus, who says that the Phoenix isn't giving here a 'helping hand' whilst it speeds toward her. Y'know, the whole 'the closer it gets, the more powerful she gets' kinda deal. In AvX 3 she has a vision of the Phoenix when looking in the mirror.

3) Isn't Kun Lun like a stranded alien city that just happens to appear in Asia intermittently? Given that, and the fact that the whole plot is yet to be revealed, I'm cool at the moment with a red head popping up in a mystical alien city based around a crashed spaceship. I like the fact that they're integrating the two MU mythos. Given all the weird sh!t that regularly happens in the MU, I can easily live with a read head in asia!

4) Cos Scott ain't a villian (even it he is apparently heading that way). His plan would be to stop them, not kill them. If you read the Uncanny X-Men #11 tie-in, he's playing a very political game (initiating the Avengers protocols which basically slams the 'facist' Avengers for invading Utopia in a PR statement to the media). If you read AvX 3, Cyke clearly has a plan that is as much about brains as it is brawn. He knows killing / maiming Avengers and giving a huge public display of full on mutant power will alienate the public and would mean the Avengers would take the gloves off and possibly start killing mutants. He IS an excellent tactictian, and what he's doing thus far is way smarter than just unleashing all out war when the Avengers first dropped and hoping you win through brute force alone.

5) See above point for some reasons, plus he knows he can trust Storm absolutely not to take things too far. Magneto? Not so much. Both Storm and Magneto are big guns, Scott just used the right one.

6) C'mon, really? Scott, Hope and most of the senior X-Men would never have fallen for that. That's even dumber that Cap showing up with a helicarrier full of Avengers and saying 'gimme' and expecting it not to all go south!

7) Yeah, good point actually. I don't remember this happening either. Possibly some reason for this behaviour will be revealed. Dark Phoenix did destroy a planet. Guess it's crazy planet-destroying escapades have been off-panel until now?

8) See points 4 and 5!

Anyway, I'm liking the event so far, though not full on loving it yet. Hoping this is because things will escalate and build as we progress, given there's still 9 issues to go. The Secret Avengers, Wolverine and the X-Men and Uncanny X-Men tie-ins have all been excellent so far. I'm very happy that the tie-ins have been limited to core Avengers/X-Men titles, all of which I get. Happy that there are not a billion mini-series, one-shots and Hulk/Spider-man/Other ongoing tie-ins that I need to get too.

1) view the fighting from the public eye. Mutants seclude themselves on an island away from humans. A terrorists lives among those mutants. There are many mutants that live on the island capable of causing wide scale destruction. Captain America, human, symbol for the American people, tries to "get along" with the mutants, and their leader attacks him. Do you see now? Another Example, when America was attacked by Arabian terrorists in 2001, did you still view all/most Arabs as good people, or did you view most/all Arabs as a potential enemy? Because the actions of one person, or a group of a specific people, can change the point of view of the "audience".

2) Yeah I know they stated that she began to become more powerful, but that was never the case with Jean or Rachel for that matter. They had to learn and do, Hope on the other hand just does. But mimicking mutant power is different than the power of the phoenix. Remember, the Phoenix Force isn't a mutant, and it has been around since forever i guess.

3) I don't like it, I'd rather a regular Asian girl act as a host or what ever, and then that asian girl has an asian baby, that asian baby has more asian babies and one of those asian babies turn out to be the friend that jean lost in her childhood, thus allowing jean to meet the phoenix force i guess. It gives it more relevance.

4) Even if the Avengers killed an x-man, it still wouldn't change the view that the public has about the avengers. Compare all the known good that the superhero/human team the Avengers has done, to the under the radar good the mutant team the X-men has done. Then the x-men allowed a terrorist that was never put on trial for his crimes to join their team (magneto, a.k.a my fave person).

5) Magneto could easily get the jets out the way and then come back and wreak havoc. Or he could use the jets as other big guns to aid the x-men, like he use to do with the sentinels. But the point is, you don't a lawyer in the ER and you don't need a doctor in the courtroom, unless the lawyer needs surgery and the doctor is being sued for malpractice lol But from a profession stand point, the lawyer couldn't operate on the patient, and the doctor would do a horrible job at representing the client. That's why we keep them where they are need, in this case magnetism plus metal military jets and a rampaging hurricane at the shores of a beach

6) lol well there could be someone else that could've ended her without being suspected

7) That's the thing, Dark phoenix destroyed a planet, this phoenix does not have a host yet, which begs the question of why is the phoenix force, the guardian of life, ending life without being moved by the thoughts of a host? What happened to originality in writing nowadays? sheesh!

8) it'll be different if the x-men were facing another superhero team, but this is the avengers we're talking about! Remember they have an iron man, a HULK, a witch, a living earthquake, a robot based off of ultron and then some friends. If i was Scott i would've said, " Storm! We need a world record breaker of Hurricanes right now to thin out the ranks! Ground team has you covered, oh and add ice, a lot of it!" Easy! X-men like danger and magneto could've been next to her to make sure people like hulk or iron pants wouldn't get to her.

@Baddamdog: I never said that she was Asian, but to make my statement clear, a caucasian red head in Asia during that time period is very unlikely.

#42 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7200 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao, upon reading AvX #3 and looking at what a couple others have said, Rachel is turning out to be one of my favorite characters again. Loving how she's playing the double agent role as Betsy is with Scott and Co. sending those morons to like 6 different locations, especially those DUMB Avengers. LOL.

#43 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

Let's be honest. This isn't Avengers vs X-Men. This is Captain America vs Cyclops. That's the reality.

#44 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

It sucks.

#45 Posted by fullmetalquach (94 posts) - - Show Bio

i think the Iron Fist tie in is a little ridiculous, Iron Fist is one of my favorite characters and all of the previous Iron Fists have been recorded and known except this one, not only is she a woman, of which there has only been one to take the role of Iron Fist, but she is also half chinese and has red hair, but writing stuff into the past isnt exactly knew to comics i suppose

both cyclops and cap are going about things the wrong way too, theyre being so irrational and its hard to believe cap wouldnt let the xmen try this out or find an alternative to just killing hope, although i guess thats what stark is trying to do

and in cyclops's defense the helicarrier mightve fallen on Utopia and caused a lot of damage and he did know that they planned on taking hope away no matter what so he decided to fire the first shot and blast cap, also if storm made a crazy hurricane then the xmen would be in danger too

#46 Posted by fullmetalquach (94 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers: in all fairness to point 6, batman and superman dont kill their enemies because they want to stay above that and not fall to their levels, they see it as murder and theyd be monsters for doing it, wolverine on the other hand is already battle hardened through many wars and a gruesome past and has clearly shown that he has no problem with killing people if it means helping people, kinda like killing one person to save the lives of a thousand as opposed to bat and supes trying to save a thousand and one lives

but also it would be kinda bull if he just secretly sided with the avengers and showed no hint of that during the whole series and he just kills hope in the last AvX

#47 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

I am in no way happy with anything that has happened in this event nor any of its cross overs. I can't stand that the two teams just came out of big events and less than three months later they are fighting, changing rosters, and once again acting like jack a$$es.

#48 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@primepower53 said:

It sucks.

lmbo agreed

@fullmetalquach said:

i think the Iron Fist tie in is a little ridiculous, Iron Fist is one of my favorite characters and all of the previous Iron Fists have been recorded and known except this one, not only is she a woman, of which there has only been one to take the role of Iron Fist, but she is also half chinese and has red hair, but writing stuff into the past isnt exactly knew to comics i suppose

thank you and very true, then the place is called the hidden city...keyword: hidden, so how would a red head find it? lol

@fullmetalquach said:

both cyclops and cap are going about things the wrong way too, theyre being so irrational and its hard to believe cap wouldnt let the xmen try this out or find an alternative to just killing hope, although i guess thats what stark is trying to do

im very disappointed in cap, i bet further down the road it's gonna be revealed that cap is a skrull lol

@fullmetalquach said:

and in cyclops's defense the helicarrier mightve fallen on Utopia and caused a lot of damage and he did know that they planned on taking hope away no matter what so he decided to fire the first shot and blast cap, also if storm made a crazy hurricane then the xmen would be in danger too

Namor is a king and storm is a queen, they can pay for the damage lol jk but magneto couldve deflected the impact

storm couldve told them to stand back and she couldve went ham until she gets taken down and made the fight alittle easier for some of the more physical x-men

#49 Posted by jonnystorm777 (44 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it so far, don't really like Romita jrs art thought. Love the art in the Uncanny X-men.

#50 Posted by MadRooster81 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

I think think Marvel is trying to reap the benefits from the Avengers movie with a great but poor executed idea of AvX. It just seems rushed and not well planned. I agree that they over saturating with "Epic" crossover story arcs. Non of their other titles are syncing up. Like how is Spider-Man battling the Avengers being controlled by by Doc Ock in Amazing Spider-Man? I feel that things should add up in other titles when sharing characters like the Avengers.

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