Avengers Vs. X-Men #2

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#1 Posted by G-Man (29433 posts) - - Show Bio

The first strike has happened. The battle between the Avengers and the X-Men has begun. Now we get to see if all the planning pays off.

The Good

Last issue was the build up. We saw the reasoning why these two teams that have been working closely lately will fight. This issue is about the actual fighting. How many times have you wanted to see heroes truly going at each other. How many times have you wondered why characters like the Thing and Namor never really went at it. It's almost like they've always been holding back in their past encounters. That isn't the case here. Both sides are committed to their cause and they understand what is at stake.

While there are many big and individual battles, you can see why there will be a need for the AVX sub-series to showcase the actual fighting on a closer level (at least that's my understanding of it). We do see some pretty good beginnings but with so many characters fighting each other, we're almost teased and left wanting more. And what we do see is nice. There was some punches being thrown and applied to characters that I've been waiting to see.

It's not just fight scene after fight scene. Seeing where some of the characters place their allegiance is interesting. You get a little more insight into what makes them tick. And if you've been concerned that this is going to be a lot of mindless fighting with no actual story, I'll just say that we do see some immediate affects of the Phoenix Force. In other words, stuff is happening here.

The Bad

In the first issue there was the argument that could be made as to who was the bigger jerk, Captain America or Cyclops. Cap pretty much stormed onto the island and demanded Hope. Cyclops was stubborn, didn't really want to talk and blasted Cap. On the first page of the story (actual third page of the comic after the first two recap pages), one of the two makes a speech that is a little too over the top. Even I thought it was too much. There is a lot of pressure but this character almost felt like they were crossing over into an ugly place.

I didn't have major problems with the art as apparently some did in the first issue but here, the helicarrier scene looked a little bland.

One of the characters gets hit in the head with Cap's shield. There's mention of a concussion but I think getting hit by that would knock a person out. It might be nitpicking but the scene was cool until you see they're still on their feet.

Then we have a slight bit of continuity. There was nice continuity if you read WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN before this issue but the dialogue between Storm and Black Panther felt off. Storm was at the Avengers Mansion when Cap told everyone the Phoenix Force was on the way in NEW AVENGERS #24 last week. Here she was mad at him for "not telling" her "this was happening." She knew Cap called them all in and immediately left before he could finish.

The Verdict

I was happy and excited with the first issue. I felt the reasoning and explanation as to why they would be fighting made sense. Here, once the action begins, there are some nice scenes but many of them leaving you wanting more artistically and storywise. I was bothered by a lot of little things and they simply added up. There is progress in the story. Part of me feared it would simply be an entire series of fight after fight. The Phoenix Force does play a part of the story here but some of this week's and last week's tie-ins felt like they had better stories than the way it all unfolded in this issue. I am still eager to read the rest of this series and all the tie-ins. After the first issue, my expectations were raised higher than I thought possible and this issue just didn't meet them.

Note - AR App

This issue didn't have many panels/moments you could use the AR app. The little logo can be slightly distracting but the use was nice to see in the first issue. I would've liked to have seen it used more in this issue. It was nice to hear Jason Aaron say a few words though.

Staff
#2 Edited by ravisher (605 posts) - - Show Bio

nice action

#3 Posted by microwave25 (109 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't read AvX or either team but can I just say the covers for this suck. That huge obnoxious logo takes up half the page and the little bit left for art is usually just a messy explosion of characters. Each one looks the exact same!

#4 Posted by Billy Batson (56960 posts) - - Show Bio

It's worth it if it helps Aaron writing something like Scalped.
BB

Online
#5 Posted by davelecave (1113 posts) - - Show Bio

: I don't necessarily agree with the Storm continuity blunder. IIRC she leaves as soon as Cap mentions the Phoenix force, and doesn't really get the chance to hear any of his plans in this regard. For all she knows he could be leading a team into space to take on the PF (this will happen as well I gather). I don't think she could have assumed he was coming for Hope, unless it was mentioned in WATXM, which I haven't read yet.

#6 Posted by Dernman (14025 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya there were little things that bothered me with this issue. 
Maybe because I liked the last issue but the little things didn't bother me so much the effected my opinion of the book. 
It will be interesting how my opinion of this issue changes as time goes on.

#7 Edited by feargalr (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@davelecave: Ya I agree, plus I thought it was pretty funny.

3 stars a bit rough, Cyclops speech was a bit OTT but he was right, the avengers have never been there for them, but now they show up to deal with the thing that, probably in all history of the universe, the X-men are the only ones to have successfully dealt with, and Cyclops is also right that Hope, as mutant messiah has always been intrinsically linked to the phoenix, so it is going to be the rebirth of mutant kind. It just grinds my gears a bit to see the avengers kicking the X-mens ass in this issue, which they did.... like seriously it seems like the Avengers are going to win every fight in this event.

#8 Posted by Mucklefluga (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

NIGHT OF THE OWLS FTW!

#9 Posted by windcaster (227 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally enjoyed the issue because of all the action. I laughed when T'challa's eyes widen when Storm approached him.    

#10 Posted by Or35ti (1101 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm looking forward to hopefully getting this soon :)

#11 Posted by DATNIGGA (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

The art is.. eh

tbh this is a x men issue the avengers have no business here so them intruding on utopia is uncalled for but I do enjoy the combat & violence :)

#12 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mucklefluga said:

NIGHT OF THE OWLS FTW!

this. I think we should all just leave AVX on the stand so Marvel stops with the events and that we should all pick up Night of Owls so DC has Snyder do more bat stuff

#13 Posted by G-Man (29433 posts) - - Show Bio

@feargalr: Just remember, we don't have half stars. I loved the first issue. This almost could've been a 4 but all the little things just bothered me and added up.

Staff
#14 Posted by mgrman5 (562 posts) - - Show Bio

The art was okay not the best I am hoping for better latter on. I liked the setup they had with all the fights and its good that they are going to have the mini side fight issues as well. This maybe being picky but when Quicksilver joins the fight they say he came from 347 miles away in 3.7 seconds and say he is going at mach 5 which I checked is nowhere near mach 5 speeds it is much higher than that around mach 400. But whatever writers probably don't tend to look up calculations to see if their numbers are correct anyway.

#15 Posted by feargalr (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@G-Man: Yeah I know and I'm not trying being that guy arguing with the reviewer, its your opinion and all that jazz :) But I had posted that seconds after reading the book, but thinking about it 3 stars is fair, this wasn't as good as AvX 0 or 1 which had 4 and 5 respectfully.

#16 Posted by mgrman5 (562 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone know when the tie in series AVX: VS comes out? Cause I can't wait for the first issue to appear.

#17 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

CYCLOPS IS THE ULTIMATE DOUCHE!!!!! AND NEEDS TO DIE!!!

#18 Posted by movieartman (777 posts) - - Show Bio

bloody jrjr, perfect for action my ass, say what you want about fear itself (evreyone does) but stuart immonen drew the shit out of that book, he should be on this instead of jrjr and or kubert, coipel stays tho.

glad he is at least getting a fight in avx versus (wish it was a fight with thor involved, but ill take what i can get)

#19 Posted by romica1969 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't too much trouble taking that beach. ;)

I'm sure the X-Men will have a few tricks up their sleeves, but this should put an end to any doubt as to who Earth's Mightiest Heroes really are.

And Iron Man... shutting down Emma's telepathy, going toe-to-toe with Magneto, and hacking into Utopia all at the same time? Pretty badass.

#20 Posted by kingjoeg (693 posts) - - Show Bio

Man the art is so bad.

#21 Posted by AlKusanagi (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember the time before the 90's when X-characters became cash cow demi-gods? Remember when mutants were pretty much normal people with a single power that set them apart, that any normal Marvel hero could easily defeat one-on-one, but they managed to win through teamwork and skill? Then we get garbage like Omega-level mutants and secondary mutations, and characters waking up one day realizing they were actually gods all along.

#22 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

I try to keep my cool and remember that it's only just comics, but this arc is really starting to irk me like crazy.

#23 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a good issue. I usually hate/ignore events but this has me pumped.

#24 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlKusanagi said:

Remember the time before the 90's when X-characters became cash cow demi-gods? Remember when mutants were pretty much normal people with a single power that set them apart, that any normal Marvel hero could easily defeat one-on-one, but they managed to win through teamwork and skill? Then we get garbage like Omega-level mutants and secondary mutations, and characters waking up one day realizing they were actually gods all along.

Cool story, bro.

#25 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a horrible issue. 
 
1.Wolverine is now a traitor not only to X-Men, but also to Avengers, since he was going to kill Hope.
2.Cyke by his own should KOd half of the Avengers. 
3.Why X-Club are there, if Jeffers doesn't use his only power to take out HC, Psi-shields and Iron Man?
4.Why Cyke is still consciousness?
5.How is that Namor out of water is athreat to Thing, in water he is stomping Rulk and once Hulk, but he can't take 30tonner Cage?
6.How Thing came back so fast to Namor in the water?
7.Why no one from X-Men just use their team-buster powers? Why Storm don't use tornado? Or Magneto iron in their blood to hold them? Why Magma just don't burn Hawkeye's and Spider Woman's hands or at least fingers, just to hurt them and take out, not kill?  Why Psylocke won't use her TK to knock off street levels to the sea?
8.How Wolverine can hold Sunspot and Magma at the same time? 
9.Why most of them just punches each other?
10.How Cap can be so blined? He isn't a PF expert and he want to take Hope from real experts? Why don't he just give his help to Cyke?
11.Why Strange nor Brain tell him that PF can't be killed and that finding a host isn't a bad thing? Why they just follow his instructions, when they are a real experts about that?
12.Where are other New Mutants like X-Man or Warlock, while Sunspot and Magma are a part of that fight? 
13.Why Magneto's shields can hold Tony's attack, but Quicksilver is just running through them?
 14.How is that possible that Spider-Man, Wolverine, Rulk, Cage, Iron Man, Thing, Cap and Strange aren't a part of beach-mess and X-Men doesn't just stomp them? Magma, Sunspot, Danger, Psylocke, Storm and dozen other mutants vs. Daredevil, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Spider Woman and Mockinbird? Seriously? 
 
0/10 or 0/5... Still 0.

#26 Edited by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

So far this event is showing me how Cyclops was right about Schism.

Wolverine doesn't have a leg to stand on. Not only does he fight against the characters he's sided with for years, and fail to support his race, he tries to kill what is, by his description, a child. He doesn't want to allow children to fight, but is happy to kill one. There would be plenty of other ways to deal with Hope.

#27 Posted by Dernman (14025 posts) - - Show Bio
@AlKusanagi said:

Remember the time before the 90's when X-characters became cash cow demi-gods? Remember when mutants were pretty much normal people with a single power that set them apart, that any normal Marvel hero could easily defeat one-on-one, but they managed to win through teamwork and skill? Then we get garbage like Omega-level mutants and secondary mutations, and characters waking up one day realizing they were actually gods all along.

I know where you are coming from.
#28 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@AlKusanagi said:

Remember the time before the 90's when X-characters became cash cow demi-gods? Remember when mutants were pretty much normal people with a single power that set them apart, that any normal Marvel hero could easily defeat one-on-one, but they managed to win through teamwork and skill? Then we get garbage like Omega-level mutants and secondary mutations, and characters waking up one day realizing they were actually gods all along.

I know where you are coming from.

At least they're now some sort of credible threat, deserving of the fear they receive. And, let's be honest, the X-Men have always been around the same power level.

#29 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

So issue 1, the bland issue where nothing really happened despite the numerous "prologues", gets a 5, but the one that is written waaay better with a good battle and actually has things happen gets a 3?

#30 Posted by Outside_85 (7120 posts) - - Show Bio

Art wasn't very appealing, story was...a big Marvel punchup, only Cyclops really seem to have become his own codename...and he really needs to get booted out of X-Men leadership. If I am not mistaken, his 50/50 gamble on the Phoenix was the same sort of thing he locked Illyana up for pulling. (Hope some of the other X-men wizen up.)

#31 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

Art wasn't very appealing, story was...a big Marvel punchup, only Cyclops really seem to have become his own codename...and he really needs to get booted out of X-Men leadership. If I am not mistaken, his 50/50 gamble on the Phoenix was the same sort of thing he locked Illyana up for pulling. (Hope some of the other X-men wizen up.)

Not really, she manipulated the entirety of the X-Men against their knowledge, placing their lives on the high-risk line, to commit deicide for personal vengeance. The X-Men who followed Scott know the price. They know what he's battling for.

#32 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: You're a little ridiculous on this one. First off, in the crazy of combat with people they've never fought before, they aren't going to know everyone's weaknesses, especially when we're talking about Magma and Sunfire. Cyke isn't powerful enough to take on the Avengers like you say he should, don't make him more than he is. I agree with you on the Namor thing a little bit, but he was being double teamed. No one is really trying to kill anyone, these people were allies just a few minutes ago. Cap doesn't trust Cyclops because Cyclops is delusional and blind and has been for a long time. I don't think the Avengers really think the Phoenix Force can be killed, but they're desperate to stop it and have more resources. If they had the X-Men's assistance they'd be better off.

Wolverine is not a traitor. He's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. The popular opinion isn't always the right one, just look at history. Killing Hope would be in character for him, doing the dirty thing to stop a disaster. That's what X-Force is for. I'm not sure he should kill her, but he has his reason.

#33 Posted by AlKusanagi (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: I disagree though since, for the most part, the whole thing about mutants being feared was primarily due to racism and misconceptions. They were just like everyone else, other than being born a little different. I liked that they were fairly low powered characters among higher powered ones. They were kind of like Batman in that regards (although Batman has also gone through a similar "power level" shift as well it could be argued). Wolverine was a dude with claws. cyclops was a dude that shot lasers. Beast was a dude that flipped around real good. Someone like Iron Man could mop up the floor with them easily, but through teamwork they could pull through and survive. Now they can go toe to toe with the Avengers like it was nothing. Other than Namor, none of them should be a credible threat in that scenario.

#34 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlKusanagi: I think it's been a natural evolution of their power to fight more powerful enemies, but not all of them should be as strong as they are.

#35 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlKusanagi said:

@John Valentine: I disagree though since, for the most part, the whole thing about mutants being feared was primarily due to racism and misconceptions. They were just like everyone else, other than being born a little different. I liked that they were fairly low powered characters among higher powered ones. They were kind of like Batman in that regards (although Batman has also gone through a similar "power level" shift as well it could be argued). Wolverine was a dude with claws. cyclops was a dude that shot lasers. Beast was a dude that flipped around real good. Someone like Iron Man could mop up the floor with them easily, but through teamwork they could pull through and survive. Now they can go toe to toe with the Avengers like it was nothing. Other than Namor, none of them should be a credible threat in that scenario.

Yep, I agree about the reason for the fear, I'm saying that this reason now has more basis. In the contemporary MU, it's a more acceptable plot point.

What about Jean? Storm? Iceman (X-Factor era)? Rachel Grey? Havok? Even Cyclops has always been shown to be pretty powerful.

To me it's just natural character progression. It's certainly more interesting to read this way.

And, let's face it, the entire Marvel Universe has had power-ups since then. If they were still the same, they'd be extinct by now. It's not as though they're now the most powerful beings on the MU. As a whole, they're still just trying to survive.

#36 Posted by damswedon (499 posts) - - Show Bio
"Organic diamond meets multi-billion dollar armor. The most expensive punch in history."

An actual caption from this book.

The book wishes to be an epic, but it just isn't.

#37 Posted by gambit75 (56 posts) - - Show Bio

What a horrible issue AvsX is becoming a absolute joke!!!!

#38 Posted by Solarflare32 (392 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else hoping to see quicksilver beaten the indecesive hypocrite

#39 Posted by Dernman (14025 posts) - - Show Bio

 OK not trying to start a debate. Neither of us are going to change the others mind. Just responding with my opinion.
 

1.Wolverine is now a traitor not only to X-Men, but also to Avengers, since he was going to kill Hope.  

Depends on which X-Men you are talking about. If Cyclops group then this issue is much bigger then that loyalty especially considering although still loyal to the group it's not in the same way as before schism.  As for Avengers I'm not sure I would categorize it as a betrayal even though it goes against what they wanted.

2.Cyke by his own should KOd half of the Avengers.  

I can see why you think that in theory but I find it debatable in execution.

4.Why Cyke is still consciousness?  

Honestly don't know. Maybe Cap not wanting to kill Cyclops miss judged how hard he needed to throw it. 
Or Cyclops has been so hard headed lately that it didn't  effect him. heh Just joking. I like him so I get to do that. :p

5.How is that Namor out of water is athreat to Thing, in water he is stomping Rulk and once Hulk, but he can't take 30tonner Cage? 

Dunno he should be able to take them both. He he doesn't take them it's dumb. Consider though we haven't seen the full fight. Just because we didn't see him take them out right away doesn't mean he can't take them.   Maybe in the AvX fight book it will show it better.

7.Why no one from X-Men just use their team-buster powers? Why Storm don't use tornado? Or Magneto iron in their blood to hold them? Why Magma just don't burn Hawkeye's and Spider Woman's hands or at least fingers, just to hurt them and take out, not kill?  Why Psylocke won't use her TK to knock off street levels to the sea?  

Storm to many friendlies in the area for a tornado and she doesn't want to kill the Avengers either.  Magneto: I wont touch that because that opens a big can of worms for me. 
Magma: Fine control and risky. Plus it's not like they are standing still. Psylock things are never that easy for her. Why doesn't she do it in more of her battles?

8.How Wolverine can hold Sunspot and Magma at the same time?   

Well I explain it to myself that he wasn't really holding them but in motion and pulling them off balance.
 If I'm thinking of the right image.

9.Why most of them just punches each other? 

 I saw more then punching but they could be worried about friendly fire. Plus the artist is trying to fit a lot in and punching is easier.

10.How Cap can be so blined? He isn't a PF expert and he want to take Hope from real experts? Why don't he just give his help to Cyke?

 I don't see him as the one that's blind. I see Cyclops is. 
Cap doesn't believe Cyclops is putting the Earth first. He said as much in a resent issue of one of the X-Men books. He feels Cyclops judgement is clouded for many reasons. 
On top of that you have Wolverine confirming and adding on to everything Cap thinks. 
I hardly call Cyclops a Phoenix expert. The only one who sorta managed to control it was Jean and in the end she failed. No one else on the team has dealt the FULL Phoenix.
Cap isn't trying to control the Pheonix he's trying to destroy it and doing it before it gets to hope. He also wants her off planet to if things go bad and it does get to Hope and she can't control it it wont be on Earth.

11.Why Strange nor Brain tell him that PF can't be killed and that finding a host isn't a bad thing? Why they just follow his instructions, when they are a real experts about that? 

 If doing the impossible was going to stop them they wouldn't have gone up against Thanos and the IG. Plus maybe they know they can't destroy it for good but Trap it, make it go dormant, redirect it somewhere else. Wait and see their plan.

12.Where are other New Mutants like X-Man or Warlock, while Sunspot and Magma are a part of that fight?   

Some were visiting some weren't they don't live there and they are not attached at the hip. 

13.Why Magneto's shields can hold Tony's attack, but Quicksilver is just running through them? 

Maybe they were down for a second or Magneto's shield wasn't tuned into that type of attack. I don;t know.

 14.How is that possible that Spider-Man, Wolverine, Rulk, Cage, Iron Man, Thing, Cap and Strange aren't a part of beach-mess and X-Men doesn't just stomp them? Magma, Sunspot, Danger, Psylocke, Storm and dozen other mutants vs. Daredevil, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Spider Woman and Mockinbird? Seriously?

It looked to like they were in the mess at times. Battle positions shift. Some times being on the bigger more powerful team can be detrimental. Keep in mind Avengers were ready for a fight the X-Men not so much. Also keep in mind this is just drawings it's hard to include everything in a few panels. You have to use you imagination.
 
I agree the Avengers are the underdogs here but they knew that going in and are using comic book strategy to even the odds,
#40 Posted by Outside_85 (7120 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@Outside_85 said:

Art wasn't very appealing, story was...a big Marvel punchup, only Cyclops really seem to have become his own codename...and he really needs to get booted out of X-Men leadership. If I am not mistaken, his 50/50 gamble on the Phoenix was the same sort of thing he locked Illyana up for pulling. (Hope some of the other X-men wizen up.)

Not really, she manipulated the entirety of the X-Men against their knowledge, placing their lives on the high-risk line, to commit deicide for personal vengeance. The X-Men who followed Scott know the price. They know what he's battling for.

Illyana risked pretty much everything there is to risk for the last bit of her soul.

Scott's risking the planet and everyone on it for a 50/50 chance of a population boom...one he doesn't appear to need since Hope could apparently overcome what Wanda did and 5 other mutants have appeared in her wake, given time more will show up. If anything this is a sign of how utterly desperate he is.

#41 Posted by JamDamage (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

you guys on here give so many 5 out of 5 and on this one you give it 3 stars. I totally disagree. I thought the issue was great. TONS of action. This issue was more of a set up then the previous one. JRJR, as much as a lot of people hate his art, HANDS DOWN draws the best fight sequences. I'm so glad they have him on this. Sure he's a preferred taste, but so is all art. This book got me more excited then I was, and I really wasn't all that excited to begin with about this. This should be fun.

#42 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjoeg said:

Man the art is so bad.

Now HERE is something that I agree with.........

I hate this art almost as much as I hate listening to Taylor Lautner act.

#43 Posted by DIOMJK (155 posts) - - Show Bio

my favorite Cyclops line ever

"As soon as we get a messiah, they want to swoop in and take her away"

seriously, am I the only one who didn't laugh when I read that? I've baby sat 8 year old girls with more maturity then him.

Not only that, but the rest of the X-men don't believe what he's doing is right, and all the Avengers know he sounds crazy. I called it last issue, whether or not you believe Cyclops is doing the right thing, the authors clearly believe he's the villain in this.

#44 Edited by gambit75 (56 posts) - - Show Bio

LMFAO, to all who say that Cyclops is the Villain,Captain America and the Avengers are a bunch of fascists pig and Wolverine, the traitor, going out to kill Hope!!!

#45 Posted by Dernman (14025 posts) - - Show Bio
@gambit75 said:

LMFAO, to all who say that Cyclops is the Villain,Captain America and the Avengers are a bunch a fascists pigs and Wolverine the traitor, going out to kill Hope

Are you actually reading it? The only one who tried to kill Hope is Wolverine. Everyone else is trying to take her off planet so if things go wrong it doesn't destroy the Earth.
#46 Posted by kingjoeg (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage: Agreed, I don't think repetitvely just taking your shirt on and off counts as acting.

#47 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio
@gambit75 said:

LMFAO, to all who say that Cyclops is the Villain,Captain America and the Avengers are a bunch of fascists pig and Wolverine, the traitor, going out to kill Hope!!!

Before I will answer to ealier post tomorrow - I have to say that:
 
Fully agree. Cyke made one mistake:
He didn't kill Logan. If he would, he wouldn;t have this problem right now. Logan is the worst charcter ever and few years ago I was his fan.  Cap is in delusional. He is completly crazy as much as Logan is. He doesn't know a thing about whole mess, but he belives he can take Hope and everything will be all right. Guess what? If Hope won't be on Earth, PF will just burn it as all other planets, since there will be nothing special on it. All destryoed planet didn't have a messiah and they still were destroyed. Cap doesn't use logic at all. 
But this doesn't suprise me. He thought that he can protect hammers better than Asgardians, even while Odin kept Serpent from rising for thousands of years. And Cap lost them in days. Cap thougt that he can stand against Skyfather with a gun. He also thought that going all out against Sentry is a good plan. It is his fault that Avengers were defeated there and they would still be dead if not Loki's help. 
 
Cap is the worst leader as I ever seen. No tacitc, no further strategy, no team work, no questions to real experts, no knowledge about real enemy. Just pure stupidity and facism. 
 
I hope that only leader on Earth who in at least 5 wars lost only 3-5 people and won all of them and much easier won a fight against Osborn and his army as much as he is the only one who really stopped Serpent's general (and the hardest one) will stomp Cap.
#48 Edited by gambit75 (56 posts) - - Show Bio
@gambit75 said:

LMFAO, to all who say that Cyclops is the Villain,Captain America and the Avengers are a bunch a fascists pigs and Wolverine the traitor, going out to kill Hope

Are you actually reading it? The only one who tried to kill Hope is Wolverine. Everyone else is trying to take her off planet so if things go wrong it doesn't destroy the Earth.

Wasn't Spiderman with Wolverine and they are both part of the Avengers and if they are going out on their own it makes Captain America a bad leader.

#49 Posted by Dernman (14025 posts) - - Show Bio
@gambit75 said:
@gambit75 said:

LMFAO, to all who say that Cyclops is the Villain,Captain America and the Avengers are a bunch a fascists pigs and Wolverine the traitor, going out to kill Hope

Are you actually reading it? The only one who tried to kill Hope is Wolverine. Everyone else is trying to take her off planet so if things go wrong it doesn't destroy the Earth.

Wasn't Spiderman with Wolverine and they are both part of the Avengers and if they are going out on their own it makes Captain America a bad leader.

Spider-Man followed Wolverine against his wishes. Spider-Man had no no knowledge of what was going to take place and the moment Wolverine even hinted at it Hope took him out. Spider-Man's whole thing and motto has been "No one dies"
How does that make Cap a bad leader? You can be the greatest leader in the world doesn't mean people are always going to do what you say especially when they have their own agenda from the beginning.  You act like it hasn't happened to Cyclops before.  
  
The biased against Cap and the Avengers in some of the comments here from people is astounding and a bit hypocritical. I like both Cap and Cyk. X-Men and Avengers but in this instance Cyclops is in the wrong. If  Cap was wrong then I would freely admit it like I have in the past. This time he isn't.
#50 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamDamage: Thank you. That is all.

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Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

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