Thoughts on Uncanny Avengers

#1 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

First and foremost let me say that prior to reading this book i was not sold on it at all. However after reading it i must say that I was pleasantly surprised.

- The Art by Cassaday seemed to fit the book quite well. The writing was great, really good pacing and very engaging.

- I love the exchange between Cyclops and Havok, until Havok tried to talk down on Cyclops saying that it was never about the mutants but just about Cyclops' ego.

- The exchange with Rogue and Scarlett Witch was good although I was shocked when Scarlett Witch says "Why is it so important that more mutants be born?" (still don't see how she is free but whatever)

- Loved seeing Rouge punch Scarlett Witch in the face.

- And the last page was like the perfect shock ending (not gonna spoil it for those that didn't read it)

Oh and I really dont like Thor's new costume. His previous one was very cool. this one makes him look like a buff biker with a hammer and a cape.

#2 Posted by Cap10nate (2451 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of my gripes are minor art related things like why was cap still wearing the goofy helmet/chin strap when they were having coffee and the red skull looked very cartoony. I really liked the way Epting drew it to look like a real skull. This looks more like a mask.

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33907 posts) - - Show Bio

Really wasn't impressed 

#4 Edited by MadeinBangladesh (7385 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it. 7/10 the art was good on some pagea and horrible on others. I don't like the way Cap, Thor and Havok

#5 Posted by StMichalofWilson (3919 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasn't that bad. I look forward to seeing who is going to join the team next.

#6 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

It was okay.

It just started. Rogue and the Scarlett Witch's interaction I think was a bit much as Rogue wouldn't have been so quick to judge or be so quick to anger but I can see why the scene might have been needed. They did manage to squeeze in her genuine concern for Wanda but either way -- we'll see. I am not expecting anything from this which is why I can see myself enjoying it - kind of curious with what's going to happen now there is an influx of mutants again.

#7 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7301 posts) - - Show Bio

lol.

This has to be like, the panel of the year or something.

Remender's good, i'll give him that.

#8 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

It's only one issue but I got to say, so far it's good. The ending was definately a shocker.

I really liked the interaction between Wanda and Rogue, and I think Havok leading the team makes sense.

#9 Edited by why_you_mad_tho (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

lol.

This has to be like, the panel of the year or something.

Remender's good, i'll give him that.

This was the worst moment in the comic. The statement made no sense. Anything and everything to make the avengers look good. Oh well.

#10 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I;m not picking up the series. Cassaday's name had me sold from the get go, but this art was pretty bad. What happened to that guy?

Also, I hate the way Cap has been being written lately. He was never this much of a goody two-shoes.

#11 Posted by Galactic_Man (158 posts) - - Show Bio

Post this in the Uncanny Avengers thread next time :P

#12 Posted by KarachiRiot (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

lol.

This has to be like, the panel of the year or something.

Remender's good, i'll give him that.

She's the epitome of an Avenger. Am sort of glad they made her one.

#13 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@why_you_mad_tho said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

lol.

This has to be like, the panel of the year or something.

Remender's good, i'll give him that.

This was the worst moment in the comic. The statement made no sense. Anything and everything to make the avengers look good. Oh well.

I agree with you this statement seemed so stupid when i read it. The Scarlett Witch

is actually trying to tell us that the X-Men had no dedication to what the 'X' stood for?

that's just laughable. I sure as hell never saw her fighting to protect what it meant

during any sentinel or anti-mutant attacks. she is just talking crazy.

#14 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@Galactic_Man said:

Post this in the Uncanny Avengers thread next time :P

lol i didnt see one when i looked but i'll make sure to do so next time.

#15 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7301 posts) - - Show Bio

But it does provide a good point: against all odds, Wanda Maximoff, the Paris Hilton of Marvel Comics will still have the guts to lecture Rogue about the state of Mutantkind simply because she's an Avenger.

#16 Posted by KarachiRiot (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

But it does provide a good point: against all odds, Wanda Maximoff, the Paris Hilton of Marvel Comics will still have the guts to lecture Rogue about the state of Mutantkind simply because she's an Avenger.

Also because she has Captain Americas' cajones in her hand. She owns him, he'll always protect her and we al know Captain America can do no wrong

#17 Posted by fesak (7061 posts) - - Show Bio

Still kind of weirded out how they put serial killers Scarlet Witch and Wolverine on this team. Doesn't make any sense.

Moderator
#18 Edited by gui22 (383 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't hate the issue/series/plot/whatever but it feels forced as hell.

1-Cyclops is suddenly acting like a megalomaniac out of the blue. No explanation whatsoever, just some move to make the Avengers look like they had some remote semblance of reason to launch a full-blown attack against Utopia.

2-Cyclops may have been controlled by the all-powerful Phoenix Force which would be a "good" reason for his previous acts. Y'know like Jean Grey never meant to consume planets whole. But instead of being released or at least excused or something they lock him up.

3-The Scarlet Witch is free. After all the crap she made in these last years? And she counts as an "Avenger"? Cap seems to be okay. Sure. Let's just forget about her mental illness and pretend it was really Doctor Doom the one guy behind the whole deal.

4-Bucky was brainwashed and worked as an assassin for years. Cap's okay with this, but Cyclops deserves to be punished for some reason.

5-Why does Rogue have that awful costume now? No explanation whatsoever. The same goes for all the others, Rogue's particularly awful tho.

6-Charles Xavier erased the original X-Men's minds following the Deadly Genesis. He shot the Hulk into space. He hid an Infinity Gem. And that's only in the recent years, he's still remembered as a quasi-holy figure for mutants.

7-What the hell, Havok?You know the Phoenix Force, it's not Cyclops' fault.

8-The Thor joke was kinda useless.

9-Is this just an excuse to put the most popular characters in a single book? You better have a reason for this, not another contrived and ultimately idiotic crossover. Change for the sake of change is never good.

10-Where did

come from? He was never anti-mutant to start with.

11-So Steve's the head of superhuman affairs or something right? How is Charles Xavier's brain stolen from under his watch?

12-Maria Hill is the director of SHIELD? Last I checked that was Daisy Johnson.

13-What the hell is the Brig? Not the X-Brig so....can't you just use the Vault or the Raft?Did you have to create a whole new prison just for one segment?

It's that stupid. I just had to get it out my system.

#19 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@gui22:

2-Cyclops may have been controlled by the all-powerful Phoenix Force which would be a "good" reason for his previous acts. Y'know like Jean Grey never meant to consume planets whole. But instead of being released or at least excused or something they lock him up.

Exactly it seems that everyone has gotten a pass except for Emma and Scott (which is total crap)

4-Bucky was brainwashed and worked as an assassin for years. Cap's okay with this, but Cyclops deserves to be punished for some reason.

Bucky, if I'm not mistaken was just in prison not too long ago however, Black Widow broke him out and Cap just let him go do what ever it was he was going to against the sleeper agents he found out about. Yet Cyclops is still locked up and I can't understand why.

6-Charles Xavier erased the original X-Men's minds following the Deadly Genesis. He shot the Hulk into space. He hid an Infinity Gem. And that's only in the recent years, he's still remembered as a quasi-holy figure for mutants.

Everyone feels or felt i should say, that Xavier did all those things for what he felt was the greater good, yet they were terrible things and Xavier never saw prison. Cyclops called him on his crap countless times when no ones else would. Yet when Cyclops does what he feels is for the greater good of mutants (which it was) he is marked a man on the same level as the Dr. Dooms and Mr. Sinisters of the Marvel U. pure nonsense.

7-What the hell, Havok?You know the Phoenix Force, it's not Cyclops' fault.

Havok is just being dumb at this point because he just cam back from space and was not around to see what the mutants of earth were going through. and Cyclops shut his argument down when he said "I didnt see your hand raised when the mutants needs a leader' Boom!!!

9-Is this just an excuse to put the most popular characters in a single book? You better have a reason for this, not another contrived and ultimately idiotic crossover. Change for the sake of change is never good.

my thoughts exactly

12-Maria Hill is the director of SHIELD? Last I checked that was Daisy Johnson.

I thought Maria Hill was always the Director after Fury left and Daisy Johnson worked for her. Unless I missed something.

#20 Posted by gui22 (383 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404:Fury left during Secret War, Hill took over during the Civil War period. Afterwards, Stark became head of SHIELD but following World War Hulk and Secret Invasion (culminating in Dark Reign) Osborn dismantled SHIELD and created HAMMER. When Rogers took the lead, he decided not to reactivate SHIELD but in the recent Battle Scars 6 SHIELD was reactivated and Johnson was put in charge. Maria Hill showed up out of the blue for that segment.

#21 Posted by Eclipse-32 (63 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404: I agree with most of this except:

Havok was right, Cyclops has been rather arrogant in my opinion.

As for Scarlet Witch, I think she was referring to the fact that mutants were growing too fast and would replace baseline humans altogether, and it's rather difficult for Xavier's dream of human-mutant unity when there are no humans around. That or she believes that human or mutant, neither one is shameful.

BTW, I like this forum, thanks for starting it.

#22 Posted by Xorion (446 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't like nor dislike the first issue. it's getting boring this all let's blame cyclops for everything even though he was right thing. Havok with his stupid costume blaming cyclops was annoying but seeing rogue punching the scarlet b-witch felt good. I am hating wanda more everytime they try to make her look good for some reason. There is also the big question: who will lead this team? Cap is there who leads every avenger team as the guy who is never wrong an there is havok who is lectured by cap about stepping up. On the other hand we have wolverine and rogue as a killer who leads many teams and the big leader of legacy title. Having so many leaders in a team feels wrong as hell.

#23 Posted by XsPectre28 (728 posts) - - Show Bio

XAVIER WASNT EVEN AROUND THEN THE REST OF THE ILLUMINATI SENT THE HULK INTO SPACE...

#24 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eclipse-32 said:

@photowill404: I agree with most of this except:

Havok was right, Cyclops has been rather arrogant in my opinion.

As for Scarlet Witch, I think she was referring to the fact that mutants were growing too fast and would replace baseline humans altogether, and it's rather difficult for Xavier's dream of human-mutant unity when there are no humans around. That or she believes that human or mutant, neither one is shameful.

BTW, I like this forum, thanks for starting it.

I didn't like this issue mainly because Scarlet Witch came off as an ignorant, non-repentant idiot. She was comparing an evolutionary shift in the direction of the species with her genocidal actions, and the two cannot be acquainted. If humans were going to evolve to become mutants, it somewhat shows how faulty her reasoning was. Xaviers' dream would become unnecessary because the species would be composed of superhuman mutants but that doesn't make it less worthy of being followed until such a state was reached. Even her statement about how the X-Men "like" being martyrs was ignorant - she was trying to justify hiding the fact that she was a mutant because she didn't want to get involved in the fights between threats to the overall mutant species, and once again, there was no justification. She has no standing to judge any of the X-Men because she basically wanted to enjoy her privileges with no responsibilities. Just a poor characterization for her character in lieu of how she was presented in "The Children's Crusade" and in "The Avengers".

#25 Posted by BurningBlaze (28 posts) - - Show Bio

I really enjoyed the issue and see great potential for a storyline pitching Havok's Uncanny Avengers vs Cyclops' Extinction team. Hopefully this will eventually happen.

#26 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,it wasn't that bad but I wasn't thrilled also.It has potential but so far it's nothing mind-blowing.

#27 Posted by jhole (48 posts) - - Show Bio

It's alright, but nothing special. Will most likely drop it. My problem is that IMO there isn't really a need (or a gap) for such a team, they don't really seem to fit in anywhere. The characters reflect this as it seems that half of them don't even want to be on the team. Also, if the whole concept was "let's make and avengers and xmen book", well Hickman is already doing that in Avengers with the introduction of Cannonball, Sunspot and Eden Fesi. To me this really negates any reason of having this team except the obvious one of marvel wanting to put a team of big names together, but in the marvel universe it just doesn't seem like they're needed.

#28 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33907 posts) - - Show Bio
@why_you_mad_tho

@AgeofHurricane said:

lol.

This has to be like, the panel of the year or something.

Remender's good, i'll give him that.

This was the worst moment in the comic. The statement made no sense. Anything and everything to make the avengers look good. Oh well.

#29 Edited by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@gui22 said:

I didn't hate the issue/series/plot/whatever but it feels forced as hell.

1-Cyclops is suddenly acting like a megalomaniac out of the blue. No explanation whatsoever, just some move to make the Avengers look like they had some remote semblance of reason to launch a full-blown attack against Utopia.

2-Cyclops may have been controlled by the all-powerful Phoenix Force which would be a "good" reason for his previous acts. Y'know like Jean Grey never meant to consume planets whole. But instead of being released or at least excused or something they lock him up.

3-The Scarlet Witch is free. After all the crap she made in these last years? And she counts as an "Avenger"? Cap seems to be okay. Sure. Let's just forget about her mental illness and pretend it was really Doctor Doom the one guy behind the whole deal.

4-Bucky was brainwashed and worked as an assassin for years. Cap's okay with this, but Cyclops deserves to be punished for some reason.

5-Why does Rogue have that awful costume now? No explanation whatsoever. The same goes for all the others, Rogue's particularly awful tho.

6-Charles Xavier erased the original X-Men's minds following the Deadly Genesis. He shot the Hulk into space. He hid an Infinity Gem. And that's only in the recent years, he's still remembered as a quasi-holy figure for mutants.

7-What the hell, Havok?You know the Phoenix Force, it's not Cyclops' fault.

8-The Thor joke was kinda useless.

9-Is this just an excuse to put the most popular characters in a single book? You better have a reason for this, not another contrived and ultimately idiotic crossover. Change for the sake of change is never good.

10-Where did

come from? He was never anti-mutant to start with.

11-So Steve's the head of superhuman affairs or something right? How is Charles Xavier's brain stolen from under his watch?

12-Maria Hill is the director of SHIELD? Last I checked that was Daisy Johnson.

13-What the hell is the Brig? Not the X-Brig so....can't you just use the Vault or the Raft?Did you have to create a whole new prison just for one segment?

It's that stupid. I just had to get it out my system.

2) Cyclops said himself that a trial would only lead to his release on grounds of insanity. Imprisonment was just a formality. The government/prison aimed to have Cyclops killed before his trial, as he predicted (AvX: Consequences #1-3).

3) Who's to say it wasn't Doctor Doom? And if it wasn't, it is not better to reform Wanda through public service rather than imprison or murder her? Could a prison even stop Wanda? Who could kill her?

4) Bucky redeemed himself as Captain America during Steve's "death". The U.S. tried Bucky for his actions as "Winter Soldier" and cleared him. Bucky never killed an innocent person (i.e. civilian), or killed again (if I'm not mistaken).

6) Charles Xavier did NOT send the Hulk to space. He was busy trying to stop Vulcan from attacking the Sh'iar. Where is the harm in hiding an Infinity Gem? Reed Richards tried to destroy the gems, but couldn't. Better to conceal the gems than allow someone to use or combine them. Deadly Genesis - Right, Xavier acted rashly instead of owning up to his failure. On the other hand, he spared the adolescents Cyclops and Havok from the memory of a brother who died just after meeting them. He acted rashly and failed, but the actions you listed weren't malicious. Xavier DID did continue to experiment on Danger when he realized she was alive. *shrugs*

11) Remender explained that the Red Skull clone is fresh from WWII. Red Skull has aligned himself to people of all creeds and races against the "real" threat to humanity, mutants. Look at this scene between Red Skull and Scarlet Witch in Uncanny Avengers #2:

Red Skull probably hasn't dropped his Nazi views, but the mutant "problem" calls for compromise.

11) Steve Rogers is Head of National Security, but Red Skull is a bona fide genius. Stealing Xavier's body shouldn't be impossible for him.

12) Remender apparently preferred Maria Hill. Perhaps Daisy Johnson left the position and Hill replaced her.

#30 Posted by soundjam (27 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just upset that I've seen more of the team together in Cable & X-Force than in Uncanny Avengers. Seriously, Delays wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't already two on the second two issues. The art actually needs to look like it took a little bit extra time as well. Cassaday has been nothing but inconsistent on these two issues.

I think this story has crazy potential, but I could also see it being canceled fairly quickly because Marvel loses all forward momentum on it.

#31 Posted by stormphoenix (938 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh it's ok, but I do agree with gui22

#32 Posted by Overseer (404 posts) - - Show Bio

I admit I haven't read the books yet, but I admit to liking the idea of the team in and of itself. From my point of view, ever since Chris Claremont (who is a great writter) first started writting for the X-Men way back when, it felt like the X-Men were becoming INCREASINGLY SEPARATE from the rest of the Marvel Universe which I hate! Aside from Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being two of the more recognizable mutants that are more famous as Avengers, it was really beginning to feel like the Marvel Universe was becoming exclusivley for the Avengers and their ilk, which was becoming exceedingly evident while the X-Men were fading into their own alternate universe where other Marvel heroes would occationally show up. This lead to a weird paradox where even when guys like Spider-Man were being liked however briefly, Mutant racism was still hanging strong as if not stronger than ever (though as far as the general public knows, Spidey is a mutant). Maybe Uncanny Avengers can finally merge the gap that's been forming between the Mutants and Metahumans/Cross-Species/Cyborgs/Gamma Mutations/whatever.

But this is just me analyzing the concept of a team combining the Avengers books and X-Books.

#33 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

- Cassaday's art is terrible now. It's not so much the backgrounds or details but the anatomy and expressions. Dear Lord, the EXPRESSIONS. What happened to the fantastic artist from Planetary/Astonishing X-Men?

- Remender's narration is really, really dull. It reads like a Marvel comic written by Stan Lee, and the text-heavy boxes from Issue 3 were beyond annoying.

- The plot, aside from making no sense really (How does a brain equate powers? Don't Xavier's mutant abilities stem from the X-Gene?), is dull and draggy. Mutant hysteria with civilians going into chaos is hardly unique.

- Also, Havok. Don't really care for him.

#34 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

So far the story is boring and I can't see the actual team in it.Also Cassaday's artwork is really ugly.

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