Possible Direction for AVENGERS ARENA

Posted by Avengers_4everXX (156 posts) - - Show Bio

Hello everyone! I haven't been reading Avengers Arena because I only have so much money, but everything I've heard about it has either been really good or really bad, which lead me to believe it's good, because good writing is one that elicits a reaction whether it be good or bad. What I'm really interested is the direction Hopeless is taking Hazmat. She was my favorite character in Avengers Academy, and I think it's appropriate that she is one of the last ones standing at the end after Mettle sacrificed himself for her. So here's where I think Hopeless might take the book in the second or third arc:

Based on the newest solicits, we know that at least Hazmat, X-23, Darkhawk, and I think Nico are going to make it to issue seven. There is also speculation that Arcade's Murderworld is really just a virtual reality and that everyone is still alive. So, with that information in mind, I figure by the second or third arc the Arena is over. The arc opens with Hazmat, the focal point for the arc, having a nightmare about the events of Murderworld. She wakes up and, through internal monologue, we learn that the "final four" (Hazmat, X-23, Darkhawk, and Nico), managed to escape Arcade's VR Murderworld. 6 months to a year later, and Hazmat, still inspired by Mettle's sacrifice, has become one of the best and most popular of the newest wave of Avengers recruits. However, there is one thing that has been bothering her all this time: if the four of them managed to survive, where were the others? Taking matters into her own hands, Hazmat brings the four survivors together again for the first time since the Arena, and sets out to lead this new squad of "Avengers" in the search for the missing victims of the Arena. Thoughts?

#1 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not going to be that simple, especially when the new characters will probably survive as well.

Again, don't think it'll end that easily.

#2 Posted by Avengers_4everXX (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cafeterialoca: what makes you think the new characters will survive? All theories aside, we know for a fact that Hazmat and X-23 are going to be the last ones standing, and if the latest teaser is teasing "the final four", then it looks like none of the new kids will make it past issue six or seven. Besides that, the only new character who has gotten any sort of development is Deathlocket. There really hasn't been any indication that the new characters are anything other than cannon fodder, so to speak. And my post was based on the theory that all the characters are going to survive anway

#3 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avengers_4everXX: Okay, you're making wild assumptions.

1) Hazmat and X-23 are not the last ones standing. It's Day 29, doesn't mean they are the only two left.

2) Those four are just a promo for issue 6. They aren't the last four standing. Do you honestly think we'll jump from a cast of 14 to 4 in just 3 issues? Seriously? Again, you're just making assumptions!

3) The book was originally going to be about Bardock Academy, and the new kids were supposed to be it's cast. Mark Waid came up with the idea of the fighting, and Marvel told Hopeless to make the entire book to be about Murderworld. New characters probably will live.

4) Hopeless claims nobody is canon fodder (but then again, look at Red Raven).

You can't assume all this just from a teaser. All the other Marvel books got the same sort of teaser. You're just jumping the gun. A lot. And again, nowhere did it say Hazmat or X-23 will be the final two. Do you realize how slow the book will be if the cast keeps diminishing?

#4 Posted by Avengers_4everXX (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cafeterialoca: well, actually...

1) Arcade says in issue 1 that there will only be one person left standing on day 30. on day 29, we have Hazmat and X-23... i.e, we are meant to believe that they are the last two people in Murderworld

2) The promo features the four characters under the words "Game On", implying that these four characters are going to be in direct conflict with each other by issue seven. Also, I said "if" they were the final four. Key word being "if". As in, it might not necessarily be what happens, but it is a possibility. And it is true that we know that these four are making it as far as issue seven. And, to get from 14 to 4 in three issues, Hopeless only has to kill 3-4 characters per issue, which isn't very much when you think about it. And if you consider that seven issues is a pretty typical length for a story arc, if(not when, if), Hopeless only keeps Murderworld going for one arc, than we'll probably be into filler issues by issue eight

3) You're right that Waid was the one that insisted Hopeless write the Arena angle, but Hopeless was actually originally hired to write a revamped Avengers Academy. Part of his plan was that the third arc would feature a "tri-wizard tournament" of sorts between some of the schools, and at that point he was planning on bringing in the Braddock Academy kids. The tournament would then be taken over by a super villain, giving us the basis for what is now Avengers Arena.

4) Maybe Hopeless is going to do something more with the new characters, but from what we know now and from what we are being led to believe by Hopeless, they are all going to "die". Whether or not they are actually dead remains to be seen.

See. I'm not making assumptions, I'm making suppositions. I'm taking what has happened so far in the series, and what they have given us in teasers, and saying "this is a plausible situation that may come about based on these indicators". I don't claim to know anything about what Hopeless will do with it. What I am claiming is that, this is what I would like to see based on what has happened so far

Hazmat and X-23 are not the last ones standing. They aren't the last four standing

These are assumptions. You don't know for sure that these statements are true.

if the latest teaser is teasing "the final four"

This is a supposition. I don't know that this is what it's actually teasing, but I think it's possible

I don't think you're understanding my point. I agree that I don't think all these kids are going to die. We clearly just don't agree on the way Hopeless is going to go about it

#5 Edited by Cafeterialoca (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avengers_4everXX: 1) But that doesn't mean they are the last two. There is no time table saying "There needs to be this many kids left on these days". There could be 8 kids on the 29th day for all you know. Again, you're using lazy logic.

2) Covers lie. Issue 2 didn't use Reptil at all. And you're a moron if you think they're killing that many kids an issue. This book is an ONGOING!!!!! Not a mini. Seriously, are you missing the other promos that came out for other books?! You seriously think they're going to rush the plot now?! And Hopeless says it's not a meatgrinder, yet you assume they kill 4 kids an issue?! God, SERIOUSLY!? You're making horrible assumptions! I mean, GOD, you're a idiot if you think that this is just an arc when it's the ENTIRE F****** BOOK!!!! AND more than 1 death an issue is too many!!!!! 3-4 kids dead an issue?! Are you even hearing yourself! How would you like young Avengers killing Wiccan, Hulkling and Kate the same issue, but it's okay, that's not that many kids.

3) Bah.

4) You're going to be in a world of denial when Nico is killed and Chase becomes Darkhawk.

And you're making horrendous assumptions. Like flat out stupid assumptions if you think the book is ending by issue 8.

They won't spoil the last standers this soon because it's not even 4 issues in. But geez, you really are just making assumptions if they would give away plot points this early! Jesus!

EDIT: Okay, I was a bit harsh right here, but all I'm saying, you're really wrong with your assumptions about Avengers Arena, and it's not ending anytime soon.

#6 Posted by waezi2 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

You are right about the fact that a good comic often gets mixed opinions, but sometimes

bad comics can have that as well. Dark Knight Strikes Again has its fans, as

far as I understand, but it is still a bad comic.

I was a fan of Avengers Academy, and I think it sounds rater cheap to kill of the heroes

from the comic in some Hunger Game rip-off. And I had my fair dose of heroes

vs. heroes. How about let them be part of Avengers, or maybe make a new title with

some of the characters.

But I have heard a lot of good about Avengers Arena, so I guess I will give it a shot.

#7 Posted by waezi2 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

I have just read AA. And wow...

That was deapointing. The comic itself even admits that it is a hunger game rip-off. If I had to describe Avengers Arena 1 in one word it would be: Contrived. This issue has absolutely no soul at all. Its like Hopeless was working off a checklist of how to write a teen killing story. Mechanical. Predictable.

Sad.

#8 Posted by Avengers_4everXX (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cafeterialoca: I honestly have no interest in continuing this conversation with you because you have made it quite clear that you are neither actually reading what I have to say, nor are you willing to take even a millisecond to consider anyone's opinion other than your own. I'm glad you admitted to being to harsh in your last comment, because it saves me the need to call you out on it and tell you to calm down. I am now going to make my points one last time in the hopes that you will actually read what i write, not just skim it, and then I have no intention of responding to anything else you say because I am quite tired of this song and dance, as it may. So here goes.

Your entire problem with this post so far has been your belief that I am making wild assumptions about the direction Hopeless will take this series, am "jumping the gun", and am using "lazy logic". I don't know how to make this more clear. I am making speculations. Not assumptions. There is a difference. Please go look it up. I have not once claimed to have any idea what Hopeless plans to do with this book. The title of my blog post is POSSIBLE Direction for Avengers Arena. I'm starting to seriously doubt that you even read the post because you seem to understand little about my thought process. We're comic book fans. Speculating is part of the job description. I don't know what's going to happen at the end of the first arc, and quite frankly I don't care that much. The only character in the book I'm even remotely attached to is Hazmat. All I did was provide a hypothetical situation of what I would like to see happen in the book after the Murderworld arc, because, in all honesty, if Hopeless doesn't have a new direction to take the story after this first arc, I don't see it lasting. You seem to think that I believe this to be a mini series, which I know it is not. My point was that seven issues is the typical length for one story arc, and it would make sense if Hopeless started a new story arc with issue eight or nine. Which brings up another point of mine: my ideas are not things that I think are inevitable within the story, they are possibilities that would make sense given the information we have. Do you think I'm new here? I know that covers and teasers are misleading. I was making my speculation based off the most obvious interpretation of the teaser image. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Hopeless spoiled the finale of the first arc at the very beginning. You probably haven't read Gabriel Garcia Marquez's Chronicle of a Death Foretold, but the entire premise is that you know from the beginning that the protagonist is going to die. Or, if you watch ABC's Revenge, the first season opens with the climactic scene of the mid-season finale. It's actually a pretty common technique. You also apparently missed my use of phrases like "we are being led to believe" or 'we are meant to believe", meaning that while what the author shows us isn't necessarily exactly what it looks like, he wants us to think a certain way about that situation (i.e., Hopeless leading us to believe that X-23 and Hazmat are the last two standing).

Also, I find it poetically ironic that you are accusing me of making stupid, lazy assumptions when your comments have been wrought with assumptions more blatant and uninformed than anything I have said. At least my speculations are backed up by reasonable evidence and explanations. Your argument of "X-23 and Hazmat aren't the last two standing, there could be 8 kids left on day 29 for all you know" is such a blatant assumption on your part that I find it laughable that you are attacking my use of "lazy logic". I at least have legitimate explanations for my speculations. Where does Hopeless give any indication that there are eight kids left on day 29? I can tell you exactly why I think that X-23 and Hazmat are going to be the final two, but you don't have any more reasoning than "Hopeless could literally do anything", and by that logic any sort of speculation is as lazy and stupid an assumption as you have made my post out to be.

This has gone on long enough. You have made it clear that you are unwilling to consider anything I have said, and you are obviously willing to argue about it until you're blue in the face, but I'd like to open up this forum to viners who would actually like to reasonably discuss the original purpose of this post. I have no intention of continuing this argument, so please stop with your contrary attitude. Good day sir.

#9 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avengers_4everXX: Hopeless says that kidS will survive Murderworld. Not kid, KidS. That's why thinking Hazmat and X-23 are the only ones left is silly.

And you think the book will end at issue 8? PLEASE! The first kid murder is in issue 6 where another kid will kill another kid. And you think it'll wrap up that soon? This book is all in murderworld!

THOSE were what I had problems with. Not all your fluffed up argument!

#10 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avengers_4everXX:

I think what you brought forward as possibilities is interesting. Worth keeping in mind as the arc continues.

And it's a rip-off from Battle Royale. (not directed at you, just a statement.)

#11 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

I routinely check this thread, but apparently I never actually posted in it? So...

@Avengers_4everXX said:

There is also speculation that Arcade's Murderworld is really just a virtual reality and that everyone is still alive.

As much as I would love for this theory to be true, as time goes by and I consider how adamant Hopeless has been about making it clear that people die in this book, the virtual reality thing -- at least, the everyone is still alive thing -- seems less and less likely. That said, the idea of survivors grouping up in some way (as opposed to future arcs still taking place within Murder World, with a different cast) would certainly make far more sense than an ongoing meat grinder.

Regarding your initial notion about the quality of the book, however, I'd note that when judging based on reactions it's worth focusing on what people are loving or hating. In this case, there aren't a lot of people calling the book bad because of the quality of the writing, but because of the events being written about. If you're on-board with the premise then this would probably qualify as a good book to you, though as seems to demonstrate that's not an ironclad theory.

#12 Posted by Avengers_4everXX (156 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: the rip off thing definitely bothered me until the first issue when Arcade straight up says he stole the idea. At least Hopeless is owning up to it haha

@akbogert: All good points. The premise of the book doesn't bother me, but I'm not sure I could stomach for more than a couple of arcs. I really hope that Hopeless has somewhere else to take this book. I usually skim the new issue in the store and like what I've read, and the artwork is spot on

#13 Posted by VenomMelendez (407 posts) - - Show Bio

The focal point changes each issue, so Hazmat wouldn't be the focal point of an arc, we already had an issue in her POV.

Also, the ones in that teaser aren't the final four, most of the characters are still alive, only 2 have died.

#14 Posted by chieflewal (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Bwahahahaha!

HAZMAT. LEADING. A squad of AVENGERS. Hm, thoughts... absolutely none. As in, that's how many issues of that story will sell.

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