Cancelation petition

#2 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

Just don't buy it, you clowns. Other people might really like it.

#3 Posted by Manbehindthewires (344 posts) - - Show Bio

This is getting ridiculous. Petition to end petition please :p

#4 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

This petition was begun by one of CV's own members, mind you. It was also begun quite a while ago...long enough ago that this hardly qualifies as news.

And as I've said before, I am not capable of caring less about the opinions of fans of this book than I do. What they love directly harms me.

With its cancellation, they stand to lose a potentially good story. With its continuation, I stand to lose half a dozen great characters, including my favorite. My stakes are higher. I refuse to just accept or embrace it.

#5 Posted by hunterscarlet (55 posts) - - Show Bio

What fans are forgetting is that popular characters constantly come back to life!

#6 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

The more people fight it, the more free publicity they are giving it, all to Marvel's delight..

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33432 posts) - - Show Bio

this is great haha

#8 Posted by TheHulk (799 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank god. Hulk thought it was petition to cancel Ultimate Spiderman. Hulk actually like that series. Sure it no masterpiece like Spectacular Spider-Man, but still something good to watch for fun.

#9 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheHulk said:

Thank god. Hulk thought it was petition to cancel Ultimate Spiderman. Hulk actually like that series. Sure it no masterpiece like Spectacular Spider-Man, but still something good to watch for fun.

Lol, Spectacular Spider-Man? Superior Spider-Man? Either way, neither is a masterpiece.

#10 Posted by judasnixon (6584 posts) - - Show Bio

Man Craig Kyle and Chris Yost didn't get this much anger at them, and they were killing young X-Men left and right. Jesus Christ they killed what? like 52 of them with one Purifier and a rocket launcher. People loved Kyle and Yost's New X-Men run, but they want Hopeless fired...... I'll never understand comic fans....

#11 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually like it a little.

#12 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: At least that was in the course of an event, right? I mean, yeah, there are plenty of things to still get upset about, but those characters at least died during the course of something that hadn't explicitly been designed to kill them and served a larger purpose in the overall Marvel universe (not that I'm excusing them, mind you, but I don't think the failure to get angry about one thing precludes the right to get angry about another, that's all).

#13 Posted by WinterFreakinSoldier (44 posts) - - Show Bio
JerryC
February 7, 2013 at 4:38 am
This series is nothing but snuff porn, and anyone who enjoys watching kids being tortured and killed for their enjoyment should at least stop trying to justify it beyond that. Hey, the SAW series of torture porn movies was built on satisfying this desire. Yes, it’s just a comic book. But the whole idea of the comic book world is to get the readers invested in the characters. So yes, the publisher and writer are showing how little they care about either their characters or the readers.
The ironic thing is, anyone enjoying this series is on Arcane’s side, enjoying and justifying torture and death simply for the amusement value. Oh, you’re betting it’s just mind rape instead of actual death? That makes it all right? No, just admit you have a bit of a sadistic monster in you and that’s what this series is all about. It’s all right. That’s why we have fantasy stories, to explore every part of ourselves safely.

This overreaction takes the cake...

#14 Posted by PDBL77 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

All of this talk just makes me want to pick up a couple issues and check it out. See whats so horrible/good about it. Adding it to my Wednesday list. Thank you, haters!

#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33432 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Spectacular Spider-Man was amazing

#16 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@PDBL77: Let's be honest here. That's a rather inane reaction. The hate has nothing to do with the content of the book itself, but its overall themes and purpose, and seeing/understanding those themes/that purpose does not require any purchase at all. "Thanking" genuinely upset people for motivating you to aid in what's hurting them is merely schadenfreude.

#17 Posted by TheHulk (799 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@TheHulk said:

Thank god. Hulk thought it was petition to cancel Ultimate Spiderman. Hulk actually like that series. Sure it no masterpiece like Spectacular Spider-Man, but still something good to watch for fun.

Lol, Spectacular Spider-Man? Superior Spider-Man? Either way, neither is a masterpiece.

Dude, Hulk surprised you don't think that. Everyone love that show even after cancellation.

#18 Posted by PDBL77 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert Since you have put yourself in a position to judge everything, is it okay if I go pick it up to see what has everyone so passionate and up in arms? That gonna be alright with you?

#19 Posted by MatKrenz (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@PDBL77: No because you would be supporting the book that'll probably kill more teens in upcoming issues.

#20 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@MatKrenz said:

@PDBL77: No because you would be supporting the book that'll probably kill more teens in upcoming issues.

Aye, this. And to repost what I said earlier (as your question wasn't just in PM): It has nothing to do with judgment. In fact, I have no problem with the people who just say they like the book, or find it well-written, or whatnot. Sure, I'd like to persuade these people to have some compassion on the hurting fans and at least wait to see if the book can get cancelled (which is what Because I've Never Been One to Keep My Mouth Shut... was written to address). It was your specific thank-you dig at "haters" that incensed me, as if being emotionally invested in something were a crime worthy of punishment.

#21 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

People have too much free time.

#22 Posted by PDBL77 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

We are still talking about a book, right? Ive always thought more books, not less, was the way to go. Thats just me.

@using german words to try and impress people- "You know, the last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing above everybody else, we ended up disagreeing."

#23 Posted by Eriskegal (24 posts) - - Show Bio

In all honesty, had there not been a thread petitioning the end of a book - thus, showing said "hate", I'd not have been interested in seeing what all the uproar was about. I'm not saying that I want to go pick up any of the comics in this series, as it's not my genre or cup o' tea. However, I certainly would like to thank the "haters" for making me aware of said product. I see no shame or harm in thanking "haters" in the same respect I'd thank someone who loved a comic for steering me in that book's direction.

I find it ridiculous to seek out a space to vent your issues with something, then ridicule or judge someone for their response. I don't see the creator of this book coming into this thread and bashing the "haters" who are speaking out against their book. Exactly what type of responses were you seeking in posting your displeasure of a fictional comic book story? Were you expecting no back talk or sarcasm? Maybe expecting not to pique someone's interest at all? That would make the thread completely mundane. What better way to turn someone to your point of view than to actually urge them to read and see your point first hand?

Seeking conformity amongst comic book fans is, in my opinion, completely mad. Expecting someone to word their post differently in an attempt to please you is also mad.

To those who have turned me onto fantastic story arcs with their praise - thank you, "lovers". Those who have piqued my curiosity or intrigue in something they strongly disliked - thank you, "haters".

#24 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@PDBL77: I'm sorry you're such an aggressive person, and that (barring the one PM in which you asked me about trading and I unfortunately couldn't help you) our first conversation has to be so antagonistic. I encourage you to pick up Thunderbolts, because despite how many people say it's terrible, apparently the ability to read another book justifies reading it no matter what it has to say.

Schadenfreude is a word which has been adapted into English, is used frequently (even on these boards) and is a perfectly concise way of expressing the concept to which it refers. Pride has nothing to do with effective writing.

#25 Posted by Eriskegal (24 posts) - - Show Bio

If I adapted the same state of thinking you have in assuming is an aggressive person, I could deduce that you might be an egotistical jerk-face. I saw nothing aggressive in his posts to you - only a thank you for turning him onto something he wasn't aware of previously and comments made in response to your general aggressiveness and defensiveness of your calling him out. It seems odd to me that you'd speak to the aggressiveness of someone you don't know, yet you are making yourself known through an urge to cancel a comic book. Cancel is a synonym of repeal or revoke - how much more aggressive can one get than to try to dictate the fate of something of which you should have no control?

#26 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@PDBL77 said:

All of this talk just makes me want to pick up a couple issues and check it out. See whats so horrible/good about it. Adding it to my Wednesday list. Thank you, haters!

I actually picked up the 1st three issues yesterday and really enjoyed them.

I'd rather to sign a petition to keep Morrison from writing Batman! :)

kh••d

#27 Posted by Cap10nate (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt that Marvel will cancel any book which both issues sold in December were in the top 50 of all books sold that month.

Issue 1 sold 66k and issue 2 sold 43k for a 19 and 50th place ranking respectively per Diamond Distributor numbers. Issue 1 sold better that month than Captain America and Hulk.

#28 Posted by Eriskegal (24 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread provides a link to the petition for those who intend on adding their names. Those who wish to discuss it - that's what a thread in a forum is for. DO NOT send me PMs asking me not to address you here if you're making yourself head-honcho and main-man in how you address everyone else. I'm not uneducated, I'm not embarrassed by your posts. I'm embarrassed for you and the general douchey-ness of your demeanor. I feel harassed by your PM, and it's unwelcome. I'm not tagging your name here, but you know who you are. I'm here to have fun discussing and debating and learning more about books I may want to read. I am not here to become one of your verbal punching bags or a route for showing off your wordiness. Cease and desist contact with me and don't tell me what I can and cannot post opinion about. Thank you.

#29 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eriskegal: Just 10 posts in and you're showing some spirit. Good for you. Rockonwityabadself!!!

#30 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@knighthood: I have heard quite a few folks say they're enjoying it. "Poorly-written" is definitely not among the charges here. But I think that Morrison petition would probably get more signatures :)

@Cap10nate: I'm really waiting to see January's numbers, especially since Issue 1 can be explained by a lot of retailers automatically subscribing their Academy customers over to Arena and Issue 2 did show a significant drop-off. It'll be interesting to see between this month and next whether people are really embracing it or whether the novelty wears off. The book is so controversial I honestly have no clue what to expect.

I would also like to apologize for my role in the semi-derailing of the thread. It seems to have escalated quickly.

#31 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6896 posts) - - Show Bio

don't like it, then don't read it damnit

Online
#32 Posted by Cap10nate (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert:I was hoping that the January numbers would be out, but they only have the top 10 released at the moment. I have also heard a lot of praise from people who have actually read the book. Heard that the story is very engaging and well written and has been a pleasant surprise of Marvel Now.

#33 Edited by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@MadeinBangladesh: As I pointed out in some blog or other (I've lost track of how many anti-Avengers Arena blogs I've written; I think it may be 4?), the main issue with this argument is that it doesn't really address the complaint. If a character I love is killed off here, they're dead and unusable in other books regardless of whether I read or don't. Cancellation + Retcon is the only solution that actually fixes the thing about Arena I (and at least 150+ other people) don't like. Well, that or the "all just a dream" possible outcome, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

@Cap10nate: I keep checking for the results (even just projected) but yeah, they're still not out. Note that that was a 35% drop from Issue 1 to 2; that's the one thing that has me a bit optimistic. But it's still too early to tell, and likely will be for a couple more (for me, agonizing) months. And even then, cancellation isn't a retcon, and I'm actually a little afraid of what a premature canon-affecting cancellation might lead Hopeless to do. That said, I have indeed heard it is well-written (though between the bloody killing of a bloodless character and the couple points I still want answered (The Rather Gaping Hole(s) That Will Need To Be Filled... ), that isn't 100% true). I've noticed, however, that the majority (not all, but most) people who are liking the book did not previously have an attachment to the characters. The overwhelming majority of character fans, at least on CV, are opposed to the book, from what I've observed over the past six or so weeks.

#34 Edited by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't like the sound of the series when it was first announced and have avoided it since. I don't like character death in general, and a series built around character death even less. There've been other books that had "characters WILL die" as one of their selling points and I avoided them as well. I've never needed the threat of death to enjoy a comic book, so those kind of series never appealed to me.

That being said, I think petitioning for its cancellation is a little much. I mean, apart from it being pretty much guaranteed not to work, it just seems a useless thing to do. If you feel strongly about it, by all means voice your displeasure. I'm always ready to talk about how much I miss Gert from Runaways or what a load of crap World War Hulk was, but I'm not making petitions or posting lengthy blogs about them.

And I'm definitely not going to tell someone who wants to try it to not read it. It's not my thing, but other people like those kind of stories and who am I to tell them they're wrong. I may be a little heartbroken when a favorite character dies, but others might not share that connection with said character. So if they can get enjoyment out of it, I'm not going to yell at them for it.

Also, if the writers pull a twist like it all being a simulation like some have speculated, I'll happily eat my own words and write a personal apology to Mr. Hopeless on these very boards.

#35 Posted by MatKrenz (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

At this point every single thread about Arena is a broken record. All the same arguments will be repeated to ad nauseam until an important announcement about whether the book lives or dies and if they decide to retcon the crap out of it to please the people who hate the idea.

#36 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@MatKrenz: This is true...

Though maybe there's something to be said for the fact that some new people listen to the record for the first time whenever it gets played.

#37 Posted by MatKrenz (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Well this is me venting my frustrations. I like the book but it still finds a way to piss me off. It's Hopeless is say, HOPELESS ! Still love his name tho.

#38 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@MatKrenz: Oh yes, that name goes down in the history books as the most fitting name in comics, period.

You mentioned the retcon to please people pissed off, and of course a retcon would also piss off many people currently pleased. As I said in A Few Thoughts on Avengers Arena, Inspired by the Liu Podcast (and let's admire that yes, this really is just a string of the same record everywhere), "Liu and Tony agreed that it's best to just let the book play out and not to judge it prematurely. I appreciate why they and others say that; it's true, we don't know what the ultimate plan for the book or these characters is. But it seems to me that Hopeless has created a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario here. Fans of the characters will be upset if they die -- no matter how they die, and now matter how good the story gets. Fans of the book will be upset if they don't die, because the high stakes are the only thing keeping them interested."

@TheCowman said:

Also, if the writers pull a twist like it all being a simulation like some have speculated, I'll happily eat my own words and write a personal apology to Mr. Hopeless on these very boards.

I actually agreed to something like this in a PM conversation a couple weeks back. I asked for support in trying to get the book cancelled -- not by singing a petition, but by just not buying the book. We agreed that if the series continued and ended up going in a direction that both of us could appreciate and support, that he would buy the trade collection and I had to as well. I said there, and I'll reaffirm it here, that so long as X-23 (because she's my favorite comic book character) lives and a truly meaningful/worthwhile story ends up being told, I promise to be just as vocal an apologist for it as I have been a detractor.

#39 Posted by hunterscarlet (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Also they've only killed a few people. Just because they say it's s book about a death match doesn't mean it's going to go down that way. I could be an escape book or "revolt against Arcade book. Let it run it's course because the petition will do nothing. I'm pretty sure most characters will make it out of this book, and form some sort of team.

#40 Posted by hunterscarlet (55 posts) - - Show Bio

There was once a petition to undo the Dc reboot, guess how that went!

#41 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33432 posts) - - Show Bio

@hunterscarlet said:

Also they've only killed a few people. Just because they say it's s book about a death match doesn't mean it's going to go down that way. I could be an escape book or "revolt against Arcade book. Let it run it's course because the petition will do nothing. I'm pretty sure most characters will make it out of this book, and form some sort of team.

This book was created because Marvel decided they had to many teen characters, I don't see why they would do that then not kill at least most of them in the book.

Character death is the most lazy and hackneyed trope in comic books and the fact that this book is doing well just shows how messed up the comic book industry is these days.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.