Avengers Arena, Final Count = 9 live - 7 die (Spoilers)

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#1 Edited by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Dennis Hopeless, Avengers Arena is meant to be an ongoing series, as he had stated in this interview he gave

http://www.mtv.com/videos/interview/864570/marvel-now-dennis-hopeless-first-ongoing-series.jhtml#id=1698744

To be honest, I really don't see it, unless as I stated in my other topic, that this isn't real and that when all but one of the characters die, Arcade simply resets the virtual world and it starts all over again, or he simply kidnaps another bunch of young heroes and start the process over with them.

I ask this, because Arcade says that this will last 30 days, when he said that and hearing it was to be an ongoing series, what came to me was it would be like 24 with Jack Bauer, except instead of it being 24 hours it would be 30 days 30 issues, with each issue following the characters throughout each day.

30 Days

what we get is

Avengers Arena #1 - Worse Things Day 29 / Day 1 - Cover = Battle Royal - Deaths: Mettle killed by Arcade (click here)

We get a preview of what happens on the 29th day, so we know that Hazmat & X-23 Survive till this day, why show us this if it's not going to end, unless as I stated above, Arcade repeats the process.

Day 39
Day 1

Avengers Arena #2 - Deadly Allies Still Day 1- Cover = Lord of the Flies - Deaths: Red Raven (Dania) died from a broken neck when she crashed into the barrier around Murderworld (click here)

Granted, only 30 secs has passed, but as it's only the second issue, I kind of expected it

Day 1 / 30secs

Avengers Arena #3 - Earth Girls Aren't Easy Day 8 - Cover = Hunger Games - Deaths: Juston's Sentinel killed by Apex (click here) - Death: Christopher Powell (Darkhawk) killed by Apex? (click here)

Day 8

Avengers Arena #4 - The Survivor No day specified - Cover = Retro Boxing Poster

Avengers Arena #5 - Born Leader No day specified - Cover = A Clockwork Orange

Avengers Arena #6 - Pawn Takes King No day specified - Cover = Survivor Tribe Photo - Deaths Kid Briton killed by Anachronism (click here)

Avengers Arena #7 - Rock Bottom Takes place before Murderworld - Cover = Unknown

Avengers Arena #8 - Game On Part 1 of 5 No day specified - Cover = Unknown

Avengers Arena #9 - Game On Part 2 of 5 No day Specified - Cover = Unknown - Deaths: Juston Seyfert killed by Apex (click here)

Avengers Arena #10 - Game On Part 3 of 5 No day Specified - Cover = Platoon - Deaths: Nico Minoru killed by Chase Stein controlled by Apex (click here)

Avengers Arena #11 - Game On Part 4 of 5 - Day 25 - Cover = The Blue Lagoon

Day 25
5 Days Left

Avengers Arena #12 - Game On Part 5 of 5 No day Specified - Cover = Unknown - Nico resurrected

Avengers Arena #13 - The Devil's Greatest Trick - Takes place outside Murderworld

Avengers Arena #14 - Boss Level Part 1 - Day 28 - Cover = for now, Wolverine #1 - I'm Wolverine

Day 28

Avengers Arena #15 - Boss Level Part 2: THE UK LOVE TRIANGLE EXPLODES! - Deaths: Nara killed by Cullen Bloodstone in his monster form.

Avengers Arena #16 - Boss Level Part 3: THE FINAL BATTLES BEGIN! - Day 29 - Christopher Powell alive - We also come to where the preview in issue 1 left us, the confrontation between Hazmat & X-23.

Avengers Arena #17 - Boss Level Part 4: THE FINAL FIGHTS RAGE ON! - Day 29

Avengers Arena #18 - Boss Level Part 5: THE SEARING SERIES FINALE! (FINAL ISSUE) - Day 29/30 - Deaths: Reptil saving everyone from Hazmat exploding / Apex killed by Death Locket to stop her from killing everybody.

SURVIVORS

X-23, Hazmat, Bloodstone, Deathlocket, Cammi, Anachronism, Chase, Nico, Chris Powell

DEATHS (IN ORDER)

Mettle, Red Raven (Dania), Juston's Sentinel, Kid Briton, Juston Seyfert, Nara, Reptil, Apex

------------------------------

Solicitations - 1*, 2*, 3*, 4, 5, 6*, 7,8, 9*,10*,11,12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18(FI)

Previews - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9a+9b, 10, 11, 12a + 12b, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17a+17b, 18a+18b(FI)

On top of that we also have what happened in Avengers Arena #3, where Cammi, while being interrogated, was kidnapped in full view of Abigail Brand, who is the leader of S.W.O.R.D, who are the equivalent of S.H.I.E.L.D. How long do you think it would take them to find her and the others using all the technology at their disposal and what if they get S.H.I.E.L.D involved in the search. To me that just adds another time limit to this series, because S.W.O.R.D won't stop until they find her and indirectly the others

Cammi Kidnapped in full view of Abigail Brand

My question to you is

Do you believe that Avengers Arena can sustain itself to last 12, 18, 24 issues as Dennis Hopeless stated, considering everything I mentioned.

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#2 Posted by jwalser3 (5261 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter:I think maybe 12 issues. Maybe less. All I care about is if this is real or fake. I loved Mettle :c

#3 Posted by c2thaj (51 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't imagine it going past 12 issues.

#4 Posted by fesak2 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

I can imagine it going past 12 issues.

Even if many seems to hate it there is lots of discussions going on on messageboards, which makes people interrested to check it out. As for cast: if the title goes on and the cast gets thinner they'll just fill up with new kids, so theoretically it can go on for a while.

#5 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

It will continue for maximum a year and a half.

#6 Posted by Lightburst (163 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought I read somewhere this was a 14 issue series? or I might be thinking or something else but im pretty sure its a 14 issue book.

#7 Posted by Sharkbite (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, it can easily go for 24+ issues if the sales are good.

As you mentioned, they aren't doing it in the Jack Bauer 24 fashion of telling a strictly linear story. Rather, it's almost like a Quinton Terentino disjointed story. It starts with Day 29, then rewinds to Day 1, then jumps to Day 7, and a handful of times has jumped backwards to before the arrival on Murderworld to tell backstory and history.

He could fill entire issues with behind-the-scenes stuff from before the kids even arrived, fleshing out interaction between characters from before, things that would affect the decisions they make now on the island. Maybe Nico thought Reptil was cute when the Runaways visited Avengers Academy to rescue Old Lace; a flashback to the two of them slipping aside for a moment of flirting behind their teammates' backs would add a whole new element were they made to fight. Or singularly, show us some details on how Chase recovered from being run over by the car at the end of Runaways, complete with a near-death experience, and use that to show him able to reach beyond himself and commit murder now when he was previously unable to.

Even as the cast thins out, the fact it is not being told in linear order means that, at any given time, they can double back and have an issue that takes place earlier on the island and uses characters that we then know will be killed later on.

The deciding factor will be the sales, of course, but if it's solicited through 7, then I can't imagine it running any less than 12. We'll see next year if the money is sufficient to keep it going.

#8 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm amused by Issue 8's quote of IGN's issue one review (the scores have diminished since then from "good" to "okay," and issue one only got a 7.3). If their solicit is "someone said we're actually killing people, and we so are" then I have little hope for new depth and intrigue in coming issues.

Also, can someone more knowledgeable about comics confirm how typical it is for a new series, which started biweekly and went to monthly, to return to biweekly after a couple months? Is that indicative of anything, or incidental?

#9 Posted by Sharkbite (293 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Changes in publishing cycles are largely incidental. Most often changes such as that, especially over such a short range of time, have more to do with artist constraints. If the penciler or the colorist is overwhelmed with multiple titles (or just has a bad month), solicits get juggled around.

Joss Whedon's run of Runaways was rifled with publishing delays because he was overextended as a writer at the time. The monthly title would regularly go 2 to 3 months between issues. Miller's "Kick-Ass" is another one that starts out monthly but rapidly falls behind schedule.

Mostly it has to do more with things going on behind the scenes rather than anything to do with the actual book.

#10 Posted by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

Issue 4 Preview

Synopsis:

• Issue #4 = The Runaways vs. Avengers Academy!

• Plus: What is up with Chase and Darkhawk?

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#11 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Issues 2 & 3 "sold out," despite a drop off in readership of 40% from issue one to three?

And upon further thought: I have seen stacks of both issues sitting on shelves in both comic shops and bookstores.

#12 Posted by Sharkbite (293 posts) - - Show Bio

"Sold Out" is a distributor term. At Marvel, they printed X number of books. Diamond Distributing handles almost all of Marvel's distribution. Various comic book, newstand, and gaming stores place their orders to Diamond for how many issues they want to order and put on their shelves for their local customers. If Diamond runs out, then that means that the book has "sold out" because every single copy has been sold and paid for by the local stores.

It does not mean that each of those comic stores have sold every issue off of the shelf. A book can "sell out" and still do poorly; it simply means that the local shops over-ordered and guessed wrong what the customer interest would be like.

#13 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Right, but given the drop off in sales (Diamond sales) does that mean Marvel intentionally published 40% fewer copies of issue 3 than issue 1?

#14 Posted by impossibilly (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

Right, but given the drop off in sales (Diamond sales) does that mean Marvel intentionally published 40% fewer copies of issue 3 than issue 1?

Marvel tends to print pretty close to order. It's hard to judge the strength of a new book's sales by its second and third issues, because those issues are being ordered before stores have had the first issue on their racks. Once the sales data is out for issues 4 and 5, I think we'll have a better understanding into how well the series is doing.

Selling out on the distributor level is a good thing for Marvel, and is what drives their second printings. Since demand is not universal, there may still be stores that have first prints of issues 1-3 sitting on their shelves, but if Diamond is sold out and Marvel is doing a second printing, then there are retailers who are looking for those issues for their customers.

I believe it was Quesada and Jemas who enacted Marvel's no overprint rule when they took over in 2000. They have made exceptions (and will tout it when they do), but for the most part, they print to order. It's a pain for retailers, because if demand spikes after the final order cut-off, there's no extra supply from where they can up their orders.

#15 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@impossibilly: Alright, thanks for the clarification. I'm happy to see declining numbers but between the reprint and the unreliability of the first couple of issues' numbers (which you also mentioned), I'm trying not to read anything into the data that isn't actually there.

When you say they print close to order, does that mean that this second printing could actually be a much smaller number than the first? Just that they got enough requests for it that they are printing some more copies, but not necessarily 20 or 30 thousand of them?

#16 Posted by impossibilly (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

When you say they print close to order, does that mean that this second printing could actually be a much smaller number than the first? Just that they got enough requests for it that they are printing some more copies, but not necessarily 20 or 30 thousand of them?

Yes, that's correct. In general, second printings are a much smaller print run than the first printing. This can lead to funny* listings on Ebay, where I saw someone trying to sell a "New 52 Batman #1 Rare Third Print Variant" for three times its cover price.

There are times when second printings will have a larger print run than first printings, but that's usually when a low-selling title makes big news and sells out quickly, like when Alpha Flight #106** was released.

But in the case of Avengers Arena, and any of the titles that are getting the Marvel NOW! sales push, I think it's safe to assume that the second printings are smaller print runs.

*Funny in a face palm kind of way.

**Please forgive that very dated example. It was the first that came to mind.

#17 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@impossibilly: Haha. Well, good to know. Thanks for explaining!

#18 Posted by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by impossibilly (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter said:

Issue 5 Preview

We get a glimpse of Braddock Academy itself, from the preview we can ascertain it located in the UK/Britain and run by Captain Britain.

Synopsis:

• The Braddock Academy vs...themselves?

• Plus: What is up with Chase and Darkhawk?

That Nico vs. Reptil variant cover for issue 5 would have made a lot of sense as the cover for issue 4. I thought Dave Johnson's cover to issue 4 was cool, but I really don't like it when the cover doesn't match up to the interior content.

#20 Posted by Sharkbite (293 posts) - - Show Bio

The covers from Arena have all been homage to something else in media, and none of them have been literal for the story thus far.

Issue #1 was the Battle Royale cover. Notice the X's over the faces do not at all correspond with whom is dying, but they do match the rough placement of where the X's were on the Battle Royale cover.

Issue #2 was the Hunger Games cover. Nobody literally has an A pin, and the symbolism from the Hunger Games (the Mockingbird being on fire as a symbol of Katniss as "Mockingbird" be the "girl on fire").

Issue #3 was, I believe, a Lord of the Flies tribute.

Issue #4 was a reworking of the Ali vs Foreman 'Rumble in the Jungle' poster.

I doubt you'll see really any covers for this series that correspond with the interior; the title exists almost on shock value alone, so spoilers kill sales.

#21 Posted by impossibilly (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sharkbite said:

The covers from Arena have all been homage to something else in media, and none of them have been literal for the story thus far.

Issue #4 was a reworking of the Ali vs Foreman 'Rumble in the Jungle' poster.

I doubt you'll see really any covers for this series that correspond with the interior; the title exists almost on shock value alone, so spoilers kill sales.

I get that they've all been homage covers; I just think the cover to issue 4 would have been cooler if both characters featured on the cover were in the issue, instead of just one of the characters.

#23 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

^ You might want to clean that up a bit, haha. Some duplicates and random links.

No one has talked about Issue 6 today. I've had to dig deep to find out anything.

And that Hazmat with Reptil thing is stupid on so many levels, but whatever...I'll wait a few months before raging over that, haha.

#24 Posted by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Just placed some news in the Body Count topic.

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#25 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: Aye, saw that. Thanks for the scan ^_^ I'd read what happened (and to some extent why) but now the SHUNK and Game On connection makes more sense.

I think if you compare this ending with the things folks said about the last issue, there's some interesting discussion to be had, particularly as regards Hopeless' views on the worth of character development and the extent to which fleshing kids out serves a purpose beyond making their deaths more shocking.

#26 Posted by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a question

Does anyone know how long the effect of Trigger Scent is supposed to last?

Because it could go a long way to give an idea to how many days are left. As we know from issue #1, on day 29 Laura/X-23 is attacking Hazmat with the full intention of killing her and nothing will stop her from doing so, not even being burnt alive by Hazmat.

What this tells me, is that Hazmat still has the Trigger Scent on her and that this would be a good indication of how long they have left on Murderworld.

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#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91366 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the worst comic series ever.

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#30 Edited by stumpy49er (611 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

This is the worst comic series ever.

Based on what? The concept? That seems to be most peoples problem with it.

I'm fine with the concept. The writing and art is superb. The people who I've convinced to try this series are just as hooked as I am.

Have you even read this series?

Usually I'm a skeptic myself and when I first heard about this series I did my usual eye roll and thought "another Big 2 series not worth buying". Only reason I got the first issue was because of a few characters I liked being in it. Once I read that first issue I was so impressed I decided to follow the series.

I've now come to the conclusion that this might actually be Marvels best title out right now, based on writing. Course that's not fair to other Marvel titles because I only follow Avenger Arena, Hawkeye, Gambit and now Age of Ultron. That said, I have checked out a few single issue Marvel comics here and there, Uncanny X Force (overrated), Deadpool (good, but not something I want to follow), Wolverine and the X Men (just couldn't get into it), Fantastic Four (wanted to follow it but decided not to), Savage Wolverine (if Sauron makes an appearance, I'm back in) among others.

To me, most of these titles are just not worth getting into.

Avengers Arena is.

#31 Edited by Vance Astro (91366 posts) - - Show Bio

@stumpy49er said:

Based on what? The concept? That seems to be most peoples problem with it.

I'm fine with the concept. The writing and art is superb. The people who I've convinced to try this series are just as hooked as I am.

Have you even read this series?

Usually I'm a skeptic myself and when I first heard about this series I did my usual eye roll and thought "another Big 2 series not worth buying". Only reason I got the first issue was because of a few characters I liked being in it. Once I read that first issue I was so impressed I decided to follow the series.

I've now come to the conclusion that this might actually be Marvels best title out right now, based on writing. Course that's not fair to other Marvel titles because I only follow Avenger Arena, Hawkeye, Gambit and now Age of Ultron. That said, I have checked out a few single issue Marvel comics here and there, Uncanny X Force (overrated), Deadpool (good, but not something I want to follow), Wolverine and the X Men (just couldn't get into it), Fantastic Four (wanted to follow it but decided not to), Savage Wolverine (if Sauron makes an appearance, I'm back in) among others.

To me, most of these titles are just not worth getting into.

Avengers Arena is.

Yea, mostly based on the concept.

When were talking about comics though, concept is a HUGE obstacle, if you're NOT ok with the concept then chances are you're not going to like the book. I'm a Marvel fanboy so I read everything they produce. I try and give everything they do a chance before I condemn it because my mind has been changed on many occasions. This was exactly what I though it was. I read up to issue 4. I will catch up with it eventually but it's not priority anymore. There's too much going on in the Marvel Universe for me to even care what happens in this. I guess my issue too is that I only care about two characters appearing in the book and if Nico dies..so what, it's not like Marvel was actually doing anything with her and I sincerely doubt that X-23 will die. There's no risk involved. Marvel doesn't really care about these characters, which is probably why they are the cast. If they want to impress me, do the same thing with the REAL Avengers.

Moderator
#32 Posted by crimsonspider89 (817 posts) - - Show Bio

Also what he is doing with Hazmat and Reptil is ATROCIOUS! He stripped away all there personality. Hazmat to make Bloodstone look better. Reptil no idea. People who followed Academy should be pissed. He has turned Hazmat from the caring cynic to a total unsympathetic character and made Reptil lose what defined him, his knowledge of superheroes since he was a super hero geek first and foremost.

Where are the jokes from Reptil? Where is Hazmat's cynicism or grief for Mettle? NOWHERE.

His new characters are fantastic. But his Hazmat and Reptil are nothing like who they are.

#33 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like six pages spent not telling us anything of interest, but maybe that's just me? I already got the whole "Arcade is sick of being the butt of the joke" from his spiel in the first issue -- I don't need to be shown him being mocked to get that. *shrug*

More importantly, looks like this issue is going to take rating hits for the art, for sure.

#36 Posted by unicornpuncher (418 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally am still LOVING this series.

Gimmick or not, Its on the top of my pull list

#43 Posted by M3th (2099 posts) - - Show Bio

What? I hope it ends. I do enjoy the series but if it ends up being an ongoing then this is WHACK (even for me.) I'm interested on how this will end. If they plan on prolonging it then I'll definitely drop it.

#44 Edited by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th: They already said there's going to be a second season after this ends.

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#45 Posted by M3th (2099 posts) - - Show Bio

@animehunter: That's so Whack. I'll read the 1st season but count me out the 2nd.

#47 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I see that all of Hopeless' characters will survive issues 11 & 12, and at least three of them to issue 15 (probably at least four, since it's hard to imagine both Apex and Deathlocket will die in two issues -- i'm not counting the outside-of-murder-world issue there).

Which means if there are more deaths happening in the next four issues, they are more pre-established characters.

#48 Edited by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

I see that all of Hopeless' characters will survive issues 11 & 12, and at least three of them to issue 15 (probably at least four, since it's hard to imagine both Apex and Deathlocket will die in two issues -- i'm not counting the outside-of-murder-world issue there).

Which means if there are more deaths happening in the next four issues, they are more pre-established characters.

Precisely.

This series is for new comic readers -- or at least readers who haven't followed the established characters for any substantial amount of time. Not saying there isn't any, but from what I've determined through conversations with fellow X-23 fans (and Runaways) and a few Avengers Academy, it seems to be the norm.

It's too bad because initially, I was really curious about the Braddock students. Now -- my enthusiasm has been shot since they've been created at the expense of older ones. Never a great way of introducing any character in comic fandom.

#49 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Not a good way at all. But in that sense I actually feel for Hopeless a bit, because his original pitch when he brought these characters to Marvel was not really what would become Arena at all. And no doubt about it: he has created strong characters, and ones which many would love to see continue on. So in some ways he has been denied the ability to introduce them in a way which will let them gain a good following, by setting them against the attachments of pre-existing niche fans.

#50 Edited by animehunter (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm trying to put together what the covers pay homage to, I've managed most but not all. Can anyone fill in any of the unknowns, thanks

Avengers Arena #1 - Worse Things - Cover = Battle Royal

Avengers Arena #2 - Deadly Allies - Cover = Lord of the Flies

Avengers Arena #3 - Earth Girls Aren't Easy - Cover = Hunger Games

Avengers Arena #4 - The Survivor - Cover = Retro Boxing Poster

Avengers Arena #5 - Born Leader - Cover = Clockwork Orange

Avengers Arena #6 - Pawn Takes King - Cover = Survivor Tribe Photo

Avengers Arena #7 - Rock Bottom - Cover = Unknown

Avengers Arena #8 - Game On Part 1 of 5 - Cover = Unknown

Avengers Arena #9 - Game On Part 2 of 5 - Cover = Unknown

Avengers Arena #10 - Game On Part 3 of 5 - Cover = Platoon

Avengers Arena #11 - Game On Part 4 of 5 - Cover = The Blue Lagoon

Avengers Arena #12 - Game On Part 5 of 5 - Cover = Unknown ( I recognise the image, but I just can't put my finger on what it is)

Avengers Arena #13 - Takes place outside Murderworld - Cover = for now, Wolverine #1 - I'm Wolverine

Avengers Arena #14 - Boss Level Part 1 - Cover = for now, Wolverine #1 - I'm Wolverine

Avengers Arena #15 - Boss Level Part 2 - Cover = Unknown

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