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Why Continuity Is Important To BATGIRL And BIRDS OF PREY

Barbara and Dinah have a long history, so shouldn't we see some synergy between Batgirl's ongoing title and the Birds of Prey team book?

While we may all share a love of comics, we are all different and therefore we all enjoy different types of comics, read books very differently. Some people have to be at their local comic shop every Wednesday, and have to collect all the individual issues; others prefer trades. For some of us, things like consistency and continuity aren't that important; and for others it can be everything.

I admit, I can often overlook discrepancies in continuity it in order to read a great story. Take, for example, AVENGERS CHILDREN'S CRUSADE, published by Marvel Comics. If you ask me, CHILDREN'S CRUSADE was not only one of the most thought provoking Marvel titles to be released this past year, but it was also one of the most gorgeous. The story, written by Allan Heinberg with the incredible art of Jim Cheung, Mark Morales and Justin Ponsor make it one of those books that are so entertaining that it doesn't matter where the story happens in continuity, or the fact that the individual issues are only released once every two months and don't fit into any of the other stories in the Marvel Universe -- it's a great story, and that's all that matters.

Yet, there's a reason why a book like AVENGERS: CHILDREN'S CRUSADE can stand alone as an interesting story even if it goes against a lot of other events in the Marvel universe. CHILDREN'S CRUSADE has served not only to explain what happened with Scarlet Witch during AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED, but it's just been (in itself) a fun book to read every two months. Although the events in the series may not line up with the ever changing status quo of the Marvel Universe, that's okay because it's so disconnected from other Marvel events that it doesn't matter. It's easy to look at it as a stand alone story, and appreciate it separate from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

However, just because it works for CHILDREN'S CRUSADE doesn't mean it should be done all the time. Sometimes continuity is very important to the story, and the writers and editors need to be responsible enough and do their best to ensure that certain events line up -- particularly if you're dealing with a character that has undergone a lot of changes and a massive relaunch. In the case of Barbara Gordon, Batgirl, continuity is incredibly important.

Late last week DC announced on their blog that in addition to some massive renovations to the team, that the Birds of Prey would be getting a new addition in Batgirl, Barbara Gordon.

Sure, Barbara Gordon (a.k.a. Batgirl) was reluctant at first. She didn’t necessarily want to be hanging out with a gang of outlaws (see next “Thing to Know #2”), and she has serious doubts about at least one member of team (see “Thing to Know #3”). But to Batgirl, friendship trumps everything, and you’ll see exactly how she finds her way to a permanent spot on the team in issues #4 and 5.

If you read the first issue of Birds of Prey from September, then you may recall a scene where Barbara shows up to meet Dinah Lance in a private hotel room. It is implied, in the scene between Barbara and Dinah, that Babs had been asked to join the Birds of Prey team but that she refused Dinah's invitation. So what has changed? What led her to change her mind? Anyone's first instinct would be to go back and re-read the first three issues of Batgirl to try and figure out whether BATGIRL writer Gail Simone may have left readers any clues. Except that Simone herself didn't know about the announcement, either. After asked whether there will be "synergy between BoP and BATGIRL books," Simone replied that she hopes so, but alluded to the fact that she was never alerted about Barbara joining the team.

That's kind of a big thing to just, not tell the writer of the character's ongoing title, isn't it? You would think that the higher ups at DC Comics would have consulted the writer who made Birds of Prey into a popular DC title, who crafted a deep love and friendship between Dinah Lance and Barbara Gordon. But, I guess not.

One of the things that hasn't come up in reading both of BIRDS OF PREY and BATGIRL is how much of their friendship still exists in the DCU. Did the relaunch ret-con each and every one of Barbara and Dinah's experiences together? The friendship and love they had for one another, forged through working together on the Birds of Prey team; is all of that gone? Did it never happen? I for one had been looking forward to seeing whether these two friends were still, well, friends; and now I find it a bit disconcerting that the publisher failed to alert the writer of BATGIRL that her character would become a permanent face on the team that the writer basically popularized. Hopefully, though, there will be synergy between BATGIRL and the BIRDS OF PREY. What do you think? Do you think communication between writers is important in order to sustain a cohesive vision of the character development of each character? How important is continuity to you, and does it matter sometimes more than others?

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Posted by FoxxFireArt

That would be rather shocking if Simone wasn't consulted about bringing Barbra into the Birds of Prey. You'd think they would give her a heads up. Sounds like a lack of communication in the DC editorial leadership. If true, it sounds as of the Barbara Gordon in Birds of Prey and in Batgirl are going to be completely separate characteristics.

What I'm a bit disappointed in when it comes to Barbra Gordon. It was her time as Oracle that she didn't just fade into the background and become a token disabled character. She stood out of the shadow that comes with being a member of the Bat Family to become her own hero. Dick Grayson did become Nightwing, but still remained in Batman's shadow. Barbra became a power broker on her own.

This relaunch has stripped away a lot of the power and respect she held to put her back at square one. Simone is a writer to be trusted. It's just disappointing that so much of her character was lost just for her to be put back into the Bat Family shadow. The guys of the Bat Family haven't seemed to of lost much, and we've yet to really see what's become of Cassandra Cain.

Edited by Duo_forbidden

Yes. Communication should be very important between writers. Both Batgirl and Birds of Prey are still new (in the new DC Universe) and it really is hard to say what kind of relationship Babs and Dinah had. I love what Gail Simone is doing with Batgirl, but personally, I wish Simone would be the writer for Birds of Prey. So far, that series is just flat. It has a great cast of characters, but the story is just struggling. Hopefully with Batgirl being apart of the team, the series can go back to it's original roots somewhat.

Posted by Bestostero

I'm shocked that Gail wasn't in on this, I'm shocked Gail wasn't the writer for Birds of Prey to begin with. I am excited that Babs is gonna be involved with BoP so hopefully everything will be alright.

Posted by The Impersonator

Every story has to be consistent whether past events or the recent ones have actually occurred. Consistency wouldn't matter in different Marvel imprints such as MAX and Knights.

Posted by sj_esposito

This is one of the major flaws in The New 52. Continuity is proving to be a great deal of trouble within the new line of books -- you have books that are seemingly unchanged and still grounded in the old continuity (i.e., Batman) and books that are basically done on a clean slate (i.e., Batgirl); what's worse, the variation in adherence to continuity isn't restricted to titles that aren't related to one another. So you have the Bat-family, in effect, shattered by the discontinuity within the books. It's a mess and I can nearly promise that in a few years, when everyone is looking back at this in hindsight, these types of problems will be the defining characteristics of The New 52.

What's going with Batgirl and BOP is a blatant abuse of the relaunch and I would imagine both books will suffer from it. Continuity is the cornerstone of comic books as a literary medium. It's what makes comics unique and, frankly, it's the only thing that's kept the industry alive for this long. In order for generations of people to care about characters, there has to be some adherence to the stories that came before.

Now, I'm not saying that there has to be a really strict adherence, but flagrant gaps in continuity should be avoided -- especially in the wake of a relaunch. This is the biggest problem that I have with The New 52; some books come off as relaunched, while others seem rebooted. It's confusing and it totally muddles the coherence of the DCU.

Also, on a side note, I'm given to understand that a comic editor's job is, in fact, to preserve continuity and make sure quality work is submitted by creators within reasonable deadlines. If that's the case, then what's DC Editorial's plan? Perhaps, Sara, you had it correct when on the podcast you mentioned the "woman in the robe". That's absolutely their "out" card. I only wish they'd use it sooner rather than later.

Posted by Mutant God

I say they should of started a new universe instead of writing over one

Posted by RainEffect

MOAR SCARLET WITCH AND DOCTOR DOOM MARRIAGE!
 
...
 
Sorry, wrong topic?

Posted by Axdemon

Seems like every time I read something about Gail Simone these days, she's getting disrespected by the industry. Damn shame, she does good work.

Posted by imsirius

I think Ms. Simone deserves to be treated with more respect.

Posted by jsphsmth

It is a shame, but it is not shocking. She was taken by surprise when they posted the cover for issue #4 with Babs on it. Somebody should have mentioned it to her way back then and somebody should have apologized to her for the oversight by now.

Still Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman are all in Justice League, but that fact hasn't been mentioned in any of the solo titles. It isn't like the storylines coincide. So does it really matter?

Posted by Alch21

Those panels at the end aren't funny or cute...just werid, off puttingly werid.

Posted by darrell1225

I think DC should have told Gail Simone about what is happening. I was a fan of Birds of Prey before the relaunch and I'm enjoying the new run as well. I think trying to please every old comic fans whims is what helped to shrink the amount of people buying comics.

Posted by Roldan

@Duo_forbidden said:

Yes. Communication should be very important between writers. Both Batgirl and Birds of Prey are still new (in the new DC Universe) and it really is hard to say what kind of relationship Babs and Dinah had. I love what Gail Simone is doing with Batgirl, but personally, I wish Simone would be the writer for Birds of Prey. So far, that series is just flat. It has a great cast of characters, but the story is just struggling. Hopefully with Batgirl being apart of the team, the series can go back to it's original roots somewhat.

It's been getting pretty good reviews over at IGN (8/10) and CBR (4/5) so i don't know what you're talking about. secondly, I don't want Simone to have more books then she can handle. She already writes Batgirl and Firestorm (with Van Sciver) plus she has another teen team book planned in 2012.

Also Babs, we all know this is because of Janelle Asselin recently quit her job as the BoP editor for a Disney job. Miscommunication will always happen when a new editor comes along. And it's not like Simone is hating the idea (she seemed pretty excited on the CBR forums).

@sEsposito7 said:

This is one of the major flaws in The New 52. Continuity is proving to be a great deal of trouble within the new line of books -- you have books that are seemingly unchanged and still grounded in the old continuity (i.e., Batman) and books that are basically done on a clean slate (i.e., Batgirl); what's worse, the variation in adherence to continuity isn't restricted to titles that aren't related to one another. So you have the Bat-family, in effect, shattered by the discontinuity within the books. It's a mess and I can nearly promise that in a few years, when everyone is looking back at this in hindsight, these types of problems will be the defining characteristics of The New 52.

What's going with Batgirl and BOP is a blatant abuse of the relaunch and I would imagine both books will suffer from it. Continuity is the cornerstone of comic books as a literary medium. It's what makes comics unique and, frankly, it's the only thing that's kept the industry alive for this long. In order for generations of people to care about characters, there has to be some adherence to the stories that came before.

Now, I'm not saying that there has to be a really strict adherence, but flagrant gaps in continuity should be avoided -- especially in the wake of a relaunch. This is the biggest problem that I have with The New 52; some books come off as relaunched, while others seem rebooted. It's confusing and it totally muddles the coherence of the DCU.

Also, on a side note, I'm given to understand that a comic editor's job is, in fact, to preserve continuity and make sure quality work is submitted by creators within reasonable deadlines. If that's the case, then what's DC Editorial's plan? Perhaps, Sara, you had it correct when on the podcast you mentioned the "woman in the robe". That's absolutely their "out" card. I only wish they'd use it sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure i saw on DC Comics All Access that she's suppose to have her official introduction on JLA after the flashback arc.

Edited by jsphsmth

@Alch21:

I don’t think they were supposed to be either funny or cute.

It was Gail paying homage to Chuck Dixon’s work on the title. If it wasn’t for him, Birds never would have made it past the first few one-shots and miniseries.

Also, she referenced the early works to show how far Bab’s and Dinah’s relationship has evolved. Dinah was originally just an operative.

Posted by fodigg

They didn't tell Simone? That's just terrible. That said, I'm happy to see the character added to that book considering how surprisingly good it is.

Posted by MrDirector786

I have always felt communication between writers is important for continuity. Because I don't want to read one comic where a character is depicted in one way, and then another comic that came out that same month which also has that character depict them in another way.

Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

Pretty low act not talking to Simone about it first.   And also a little unprofessional of her to complain about it on Twitter. 

Edited by jsphsmth

@MrDirector786: Unfortunately that seems to be how DC operates. All four Batman titles are vastly different. They cannot even coordinate the facts in those books. Is Batman Inc around? Depends which book you read. What is the GCPD's policy on Batman? They are shooting at him in Detective, but working with him in Batman.

It has been decades since I have seen good coordination of titles at DC, probably not since Denny O'Neil's time as editor of the Bat-comics.

Posted by Duo_forbidden
@Roldan said:

@Duo_forbidden said:

Yes. Communication should be very important between writers. Both Batgirl and Birds of Prey are still new (in the new DC Universe) and it really is hard to say what kind of relationship Babs and Dinah had. I love what Gail Simone is doing with Batgirl, but personally, I wish Simone would be the writer for Birds of Prey. So far, that series is just flat. It has a great cast of characters, but the story is just struggling. Hopefully with Batgirl being apart of the team, the series can go back to it's original roots somewhat.

It's been getting pretty good reviews over at IGN (8/10) and CBR (4/5) so i don't know what you're talking about. secondly, I don't want Simone to have more books then she can handle. She already writes Batgirl and Firestorm (with Van Sciver) plus she has another teen team book planned in 2012.

Also Babs, we all know this is because of Janelle Asselin recently quit her job as the BoP editor for a Disney job. Miscommunication will always happen when a new editor comes along. And it's not like Simone is hating the idea (she seemed pretty excited on the CBR forums).


IGN and CBR reviews do not persuade my own personal opinion. Just because they say it's good doesn't mean everyone else will agree. And yes, I do realize Gail Simone is currently the writer for two series along with another series in the future. Of course, a lot fans wished Secret Six was back under Gail Simone. I too don't want her to have more books she can handle either. It was just wishful thinking.

Posted by ArtisticNeedham

Did I miss the last issues of Children's Crusade? Is it over? Or are there more issues left?

Posted by Pokeysteve

As a huge Birds of Prey fan, the meeting between Babs and Dinah seemed awkward. In BoP Vol 1 they were pretty much best friends. You would think when Dinah asked her to join a team she was putting together that Babs would have mentioned the old team. I don't think it ever happened which does away with their entire relationship. We have a new one.

The story so far in BoP is interesting but I'm hoping once Batgirl and maybe Huntress show up it'll be even better. I'm liking Ivy on the team as well. Always preferred her more as an anti hero.

Posted by jsphsmth

@Roldan: I must have missed an interview. When did she mention the teen team book? Is it with DC?

Could this mean that she is handling the Gen13 integration into the DCNu?

Edited by feargalr

@ArtisticNeedham: Theres more issues left, infact I thought there was one out tomorrow, at least I could have sworn there was but I just checked and apparently its pushed back to December 28th, and then there's one more issue after that we can expect sometime in the year 2859

Matt Fraction said this a while back

"I'll say this — there's a reason that Fear Itself, X-Men: Schism, and Children's Crusade are all ending around the same time. All of these moments are going to converge into this one giant epic."

Perhaps this book is more tied into continuity then we relise? It is a time travel/reality alteration story after all.... who knows what they're going to do....

Posted by darrell1225

I think the story is far from flat in fact it's been flowing pretty nicely

Posted by jsphsmth

@Pokeysteve: They are hinting that Huntress is Earth-2, so no Birds for her. She could be part of the JSA though.

Posted by Danial79

I think comic publishers should have a continuity coordinator just like films have. When someone in a film is wearing a hat in one shot and not in the next, it takes you out of the film, and the same goes for comics--if Spider-Man has his Spider-Sense in one comic and not in another parallel title, you get kicked out of your immersion because your brain knows something's not right.

Posted by LoopLeon

I hope I'm not the only one who sees Barbara being in BoP as Batgirl as a good thing. It's been shown to me that Gail absolutely CANNOT write Barbara, and that makes me disappointed because she was the Batgirl I grew up with via BTAS. Hopefully she's better portrayed in BoP.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

It appears that the new order in DCU with the New 52 has done alot to sweep much of 75 plus years of DC history into the dust bin, so why shouldn't DC go ahead and destroy the synergy between Babs and Dinah and the BoP? Hell, they've done turned everything else topsy turvy in this new order so why not that as well? But seriously, maybe they will reinstate that friendship here since it seems a good part of this new order is alot about redoing things over. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Posted by Pokeysteve

@jsphsmth said:

@Pokeysteve: They are hinting that Huntress is Earth-2, so no Birds for her. She could be part of the JSA though.

From DC's website a month or so ago. There's hope.

This Wednesday marks the release of HUNTRESS #1. Written by the character’s creator Paul Levitz and illustrated by HEROES and RED ROBIN artist Marcus To, the first issue in this six-issue miniseries follows Helena Bertinelli as she travels home to Italy on a grave mission.
Looking for more reasons to pick up the book? HUNTRESS has story connections to the following three series:
• BIRDS OF PREY
• MISTER TERRIFIC
• Next year’s JUSTICE SOCIETY
We won’t spoil just how they’re all connected but believe us when we say you won’t want to miss out.
Posted by IronHerc

@LoopLeon:

If you haven't heard anything about barbara before this reboot, Gail Simmone has written the character for a really long time in Birds of Prey and has done a very good job, what you want is a barbara that hasn't exited for many years even before the 90's show

Posted by Nwing77

@FoxxFireArt said:

What I'm a bit disappointed in when it comes to Barbra Gordon. It was her time as Oracle that she didn't just fade into the background and become a token disabled character. She stood out of the shadow that comes with being a member of the Bat Family to become her own hero. Dick Grayson did become Nightwing, but still remained in Batman's shadow. Barbra became a power broker on her own.

Check yourself. Dick Grayson was the first sidekick/supporting character to successfully transcend beyond a legacy role and a prominent flagship title. Most characters run the risk of fading into obscurity once leaving an iconic mantle, but Dick made a name for himself OUTSIDE the Batbooks, and against Bruce's wishes, for over ten years. A little series, you've might of heard it... called Titans. And it was DC's premiere team book for a while, often outselling the X-men.

We can all appreciate that Babs found similar success with Oracle and Birds of Prey, but let's not overlook that others did before her as well.

Speaking of Barbara Gordon and BoP, the only reservation I have with this permanent team-up is that I'm really loving the current dynamic between Black Canary and Starling, especially now with the addition of Katana. Eve is delightful and the last two issues have been a blast to read. BoP feels like a fun adventure again and I don't want the baggage and weird continuity that Babs has going for her right now to throw that off. It's odd saying that because Babs and the Birds should feel natural. However, while some things have withstood the reboot, other areas are a strong reflection of what's changed in the DCnU. This is one of them. Babs does feel significantly different in her own book, and even though Dinah still reads like Dinah, she's now's turned toward a different direction with a new crew and a new type of chemistry.

It really is a shame that editorial didn't communicate better with Gail on this development, as she could've preemptively smoothed the details of Babs impending role with BoP in Batgirl [timeline, capabilities, etc.].

Posted by Cafeterialoca

If you ask me, CHILDREN'S CRUSADE was not only one of the most thought provoking Marvel titles to be released this past year

PFFFT! HAHAHAHAHA!

...oh wait, you're serious? BWAH HAHAHAHAAHA!!!!

Posted by Roldan

@jsphsmth said:

@Roldan: I must have missed an interview. When did she mention the teen team book? Is it with DC?

Could this mean that she is handling the Gen13 integration into the DCNu?

I remember seeing this on BC, It's from a MCM London Expo

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/31/gail-simone-to-write-new-dcu-teen-team-title/

@Pokeysteve said:

@jsphsmth said:

@Pokeysteve: They are hinting that Huntress is Earth-2, so no Birds for her. She could be part of the JSA though.

From DC's website a month or so ago. There's hope.

This Wednesday marks the release of HUNTRESS #1. Written by the character’s creator Paul Levitz and illustrated by HEROES and RED ROBIN artist Marcus To, the first issue in this six-issue miniseries follows Helena Bertinelli as she travels home to Italy on a grave mission.
Looking for more reasons to pick up the book? HUNTRESS has story connections to the following three series:
• BIRDS OF PREY
• MISTER TERRIFIC
• Next year’s JUSTICE SOCIETY
We won’t spoil just how they’re all connected but believe us when we say you won’t want to miss out.

Another hint would probably be that all of the superhero titles haver or will have a guest-star except Mister Terrific which seems to be far from the other titles (i don't read it but I've seen solicitations).

Posted by RareCheshire

@ArtisticNeedham said:

Did I miss the last issues of Children's Crusade? Is it over? Or are there more issues left?

There's two more, I think the last one was issue 7 of 9. So two more issues, but it's bi monthly so it takes a little longer to complete.

Gail should've been notified, poor communication, I'm sad she had to learn this way!

Posted by avenger11

Whatever happened to the Huntress in the BOP? i know she has her own series but gotham city heroes reboot has past history in it which sometimes is confusing. some characters story and characters themselves disappear in their history.

Posted by cagedleo730

Gail has mentioned that the editors are working real hard on this new52. They are being run ragged. Some things slipped through the cracks like them mentioning that Batgirl would join BOP permanently. It was just an oversight and not a slight towards Gail. She's in communication with Duane to coordinate Barbara better.

Posted by Iron_Lad

@feargalr said:

@ArtisticNeedham:

Matt Fraction said this a while back

"I'll say this — there's a reason that Fear Itself, X-Men: Schism, and Children's Crusade are all ending around the same time. All of these moments are going to converge into this one giant epic."

Perhaps this book is more tied into continuity then we relise? It is a time travel/reality alteration story after all.... who knows what they're going to do....

I just wanted to point out that in Avengers: The Children's Crusade Rictor reacquires his powers. This does crossover into the latest issues of X-Factor. Rictor clearly has his powers back in Peter David's book, so it does seem to be in continuity.

Posted by Ganthetsward20

I havent been reading birds of prey since the first issue, has it gotten good or will i be fine just reading Batgirl? I like those characters. I'm honestly more concerned about JLI Animal Man, and Deadpool, and as far as books with women CatWoman has my attention

Posted by SC

Ugh woah, really? Gail Simone is one of the biggest weapons DC has as far as reaching the type of fans that would otherwise scoff at some of their decisions. Oh well... personally to think of only myself for a moment and not one of my favorite writers I hope DC annoy her enough to have Marvel snap her up... I'd love to see her write the X-Men. 

Moderator
Posted by pikahyper

@SC said:

Ugh woah, really? Gail Simone is one of the biggest weapons DC has as far as reaching the type of fans that would otherwise scoff at some of their decisions. Oh well... personally to think of only myself for a moment and not one of my favorite writers I hope DC annoy her enough to have Marvel snap her up... I'd love to see her write the X-Men.

agreed, I dunno about X-Men but I'd love to see her inject some awesomeness into Marvel's stable of female character that have been neglected too much; Daughters of the Dragon, Black Widow, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Jessica Jones, hell they could give her Dazzler and it would probably be epic.

Moderator
Posted by SC
@pikahyper:  She would be so fun on She Hulk!! Black Widow as well. Pretty much all you mentioned. I'd love to see her just rip off herself and write a Marvel Birds of Prey... sorry, Lady Liberators title.. lol
Moderator
Posted by CATPANEXE

I'm still not riding the continuity is important in DC train for even a short stop, sorry (though I still think your fabu Babs).

Why: It's a new continuity, and that includes the past of it. End. There's no arguing that point no matter which way it's approached.

On the personal level, at least thus far I'm really sold on the whole " Good quality comics 1st and foremost, everything else is secondary "

angle DC is going for DCnU by what they've shown me so far (Batgirl and BOP being highly regarded books on my list, both pre-DCnU and during).

I think it's actually the done right way. Stagnation only leads death, this is natures way, one of the ways humanity chooses to fight an endless losing battle

against oddly.

Posted by pikahyper

@SC: I'd imagine her take on the Daughters of the Dragon or even the Heroes For Hire would be very Birds of Preyesque, wouldn't be much of a stretch to turn the Heroes For Hire into a rotating roster of operatives catered for each mission.

Moderator
Posted by 672253

For me, continuity is important. They really should have some one to go between the editors/writers of the 52 titles and make sure there's some sort of continuity for when they have characters from other titles make an appearance, like with the over a dozen titles that involve characters with ties to Batman. (Half of which actively involve Batman)

On another note I'm pretty excited to have Batgirl on the BoP team (even with iffy continuity)... Always happy for more Babs.

Posted by Eyz

DC is cleaning up their continuity, making way with the old...while Marvel's keeping the legacy, the longevity of characters in check.

What's going lately?! Is it reverse-world?

Posted by Outside_85

Think Barbara's reaction to Nightwing appearing in #3 is all we really need to understand why she initially turned BoP down; She wants to prove that she can do the superhero-thing on her own, to Batman, Nightwing, especially herself and damn near everyone else while she is there. So jumping onto the team band-wagon so soon will really undermine what she is trying to do.

But other than that...DC has proved time and again how terrible they are at coordinating their books. As Danial79 suggested, it really would help them if they had one or two people to coordinate everything between the different editors and writers. Also, make it mandatory that there is a coordinating meeting between editors/writers when Team A starts leaning into Team B's territory.

Posted by ltbrd

The fact that we even have to say that and a major company like DC isn't doing it as a normal routine is just laughable. I mean, how do you run a company that has to be so connected and in the loop of what everyone is doing that you don't have these kind of coordination talks and meetings.

But then again this is also a point against "the new 52" in general. I'm not enjoying either Batgirl or Birds of Prey titles right now. The Birds of Prey series is making them look a bit amaturish, I see no reason for Starlings character and overall the writing just doesn't have the edge that the series used to.

On the Batgirl side of the house I get that DC thinks Barbara should be Batgirl because even though she hasn't been for 23 years (roughly the length of time I've been reading) in the comics she still appeared in every animated series since 1988 and one film (which many of us wish we could forget). However, given the fact she didn't appear in the Justice League animated, was Oracle in the short lived Birds of Prey live action series, and none of the other animated Batman series have done that well ratings-wise over the years I think DC was overestimating how many "new" readers would associate Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. She just hasn't been that much a focus outside of comics for her to be so focused upon in the new 52. Specifically about her series........it just hasn't real captured my attention. The new villain is not a bad new villain compared to some of the others created for the revamp but then issue 3 switches to a lovers spat and verbal duel between her and Nightwing......completely destroying whatever momentum the previous 2 issues built up so we can get a glimpse of Barbara's confidence issues. That could have easily been worked through in her dealings with Mirror but the fact that is was the focus of an entire issue forced it and thus made it fall flat.

Personally I don't see the need for a Batgirl unless it's going to be a brand new heroine. I think DC would have done better in clearing up confusion to drop the character (and yes Batwoman as well but for entirely different reasons) and focus on Cassandra Cain as Blackbat (maybe change the name) and her adventures in Tokyo just as Batwing is focused in Africa. Spread the stories out around the world to keep the idea of Batman, Inc alive even if its not a focus of the Batman canon and also Cassandra is a great character for internal conflict and I was really looking forward to more interactions between her and that Cricket kid as her up and coming nemesis.

Posted by victoriancuckoo

continuity doesn't bother me that much, since I tend to jump in late anyway, but it does seem weird that they would relaunch the new 52 without deciding to make all the books line up in some way.

Posted by Doctor!!!!!

Really? No Gail Simone? She's like in Everything!

Posted by Joe Venom

I dropped both of these titles, so did they ever explain how Babs got out of the wheelchair? or are we still going with the whole divine intervention thing?

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