This Just In: New Development for Tim Drake [Spoiler]

32nd on IGN's Top 100 Comic Book Heroes. That's who.

But wait who's tim drake? That's right folks he a near unregonizable character sorry.

teen titans blows wtf dc y r u ruining this character

wait so Tim Drake's parents are still alive?

Crap on a stick...

To hell with the New 52.

He is not marginalizing Tim Drake, that should be clear to anyone reading Titans.

Scott Lobdell is a great writer, I love everything he's putted out so far, he writes good team books and interesting characters who are realistic (for comic book characters in a hero universe) and complex characters.

If you actually READ titans 0 instead of going in mumbling on how much you hate Lobdell or grumbling that they messed with "your" tim drake you can see he's done a great job with Tim's past. Titans 0 is a coming of age story for Tim, this is about him growing up and realizing that no matter how smart you are you can still fuck it up royally.

Its been a year people, either accept the New 52 for what it is, a potential to tell new stories, or stop buying them from DC because at the end of the day the only person who gets a say in undoing any of the changes is DC's accounting staff.

What a strange series of events. It was weird enough that they made Tim Drake an acrobat. How does it help to homogenize the various Robins?

@DrakeTimBizarroRedRobin: Oh terrific. Chalk another flaw for the New 52

@FadeToBlackBolt: I doubt the old DC will be coming back for a while if ever at all. The New 52 was designed to generate sales and profit via the reboot and as long as figures for the New 52 stay higher than the sales were pre New 52, DC won't be reverting back any time soon. A sad truth unfortunately.

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@TheAcidSkull said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I love that there are people out there who think the reboot is good. In short, you're awful and should be ashamed.

i agree with you but you shouldn't be this angry, it's just opinions

It's not though, those opinions come from people who buy the stuff, thus validating its stupidity. The old DC won't come back until people stop buying this crap

I agree

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I love that there are people out there who think the reboot is good. In short, you're awful and should be ashamed.

i agree with you but you shouldn't be this angry, it's just opinions

Son of a $%^&H!!!!!! Seriously...this is just getting to be too much for me. Alright Pandora, come fix the problem you made and get us back to pre-Flashpoint continuity...NOW!

Just read the issue.

First of all, I don't care that he was never "Robin" his role was the same and therefore not much of his and Batman's relationship during that time is shifted. Also I like that they had him use the post-infinite crisis look. Tim is known for it, IMO. The fact that the colors weren't inspired by Conner's death isn't that big a deal, as red and black are fairly common.

As for saying that Tim's parents are still alive, I'm not so sure. Who is to say that Boomerang didn't still find his father in witness protection? As it was the hit placed on Tim's father was made with the assassin not knowing he was Robin. Jack Drake may still have been killed with Tim arriving shortly after.

What I dislike the most about this issue is that Tim never truly discovered Batman's identity. All he really did is screw stuff up just bad enough to force Batman to intervene. He never confronted Dick, nor did he convince Bruce that he needed a Robin/needed him. This to me begins to break down the big difference between the Robins. Tim was supposed to be the one with the great family life who chose to be Robin. Forcing his parents into a different life and essentially leaving him with no choice is not the same as it was, nor does it make him a better character.

I love what Lobdell has been doing with Jason Todd, but I don't like the direction that he has taken with Tim. The Teen Titans book has been less than thrilling and I think Tim's character has suffered. There was so much character development that happened with his Red Robin solo book, and much of that seems to have been abandoned.

Pre 52 I had about 10 dc books on my pull list, post 52 that went upto nearly 20. I'm not down to 4. People call the new 52 a success but it's not actually improving on anything and it's driving long time customers away.

But...why??

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Coolness. Got like ten minutes, then got to do some work!!!

@TwentyFive: It has it flaws and it's perks. To some it could be considered a bad change and to others it can't.

@Avenging-X-Bolt: So Cyborg being a part of the Big 7 is a bad change huh?

Pre-nu52 Tim will always exsist for us no matter what happens in nu52. What we're seeing is a new Tim Drake & a new DC. Is it better? No, but it still can be very good.

I'm liking this new Tim. I think his rationale about being the Red Robin was cool. And c'mon people we all know he's still a Robin- even of the name was slightly different. He served the same role- he was just more independent a little quicker than the others. That's completely in keeping with the Robin who had the longest running solo career and comic title as Robin.

Tim still needs his own front and center title with Steph and Cassie. I'd also like to see more flashbacks in this continuity of the days he spent with Bruce before Damian came on the scene. For that matter-what happened between Tim and Damian in this timeline to make them dislike eachother again? I'd like to see that.

Just finished this issue. It's really not that bad. It keeps within the spirit of the character. The only BIG issue I have is that Tim's detective work to find the identity of Batman is different this time out. Don't want to say more, but I'm not as happy with this new version. However, in other ways this Tim is even more of a badass. I love what he did to piss off the Penguin.

BTW- Minor Spoiler/Speculation: his parents were alive in the flash back, but may not be alive in the current timeline. There was a hint in the comic that may still be murdered before the current time, but nothing was said for certain.

I liked the issue and the new back story. The nu52 HAS to be different from the pre-Flashpoint era. Given the FP changes- there is no way that events would have unraveled he same way twice for these characters.

@Lvenger: Actually I've got the comic where Stewart and Guy make that claim if I cared enough to actually look for it I'd use my camera to take a picture of it for you. DC's an editorial mess and the writers are a mess. Nuff said. They can't get their cannon right so they go into trade paperbacks and change things. Writers aren't telling other writers on titles with characters whars going on nor are they telling Didio..... ehem..... DILDO.

I'm sorry, I don't see why this is such a dealbreaker for some people. Tim was Robin while his father was still alive. His Dad even knew about his son being Robin. I just... don't get it.

I'll continue to buy the DC books that I like despite that others might hate it. We'll see who wins. That being said I'm close to dropping Teen Titans due to loss of interest in the story. The Death in The Family story could get me back on board fully or be my jumping off point.

C'mon, DC!

F### the relaunch, fire DC's editorial staff, hire a competent one, reverse-relaunch the DCU.

Flashpoint changed everything. No matter how much anyone says there's no reboot, it truly is. Some of the stories are good ones, even if continuity is ignored. The idea is to get everyone talking and buying and it has. Money speaks. If it is not successful then things will change.....again.

I think we're blaming the writer for a problem with the editorial staff. I'm not a huge Lobdell fan or anything but I feel like our rage is being misdirected.

what really upsets me is all the hate being thrown at Lobdell...he's not the one who came up with the 5 year timeline....he's just trying to make it make sense

@neale7 said:

Right i'm gonna get straight to the point on this. The only way DC will listen (maybe) to all of the fans that don't agree and are angry at the changes is if you all stop buying the comics. No money will mean a forced approach for DC to see what is wrong with the comics and then address it. You all complain that you don't like the changes but still buy the comics, and then continue to moan. I really don't get it. Why waste your money on stuff that your not happy with? At the moment DC doesn't care what any fans think as long as the dollars keep rolling in and the books still selling. Which is what most if not all of you are doing. You keep giving them money for stuff you not happy with. What you’re buying now probably won't even mater in about 4-5years anyway, as knowing DC, another reboot or overhaul will change everything and make the new 52 irrelevant like what preceded it.

Amen. Vote with your wallets!

@Omega-Man said:

@Lvenger:

Actually you haven't just because they make edits later on proves they don't know what they are doing. both John Stewart and Guy have stated to have been on the Justice League and haven't, Hal acts nothing like he did in Justice League.

No they haven't. In the New 52, the membership of the Justice League hasn't changed in 5 years. Meaning the lineup's always been the same 7 who fought Darkseid. Let me make this clear: the reason Hal is different in Justice League than he is in Green Lantern is due to writing. He's more douchy in JL and more serious in Green Lantern. All of which share the same continuity. That's the whole point of the DC universe.

@Omega-Man said:

And why should they get rid of the Lucy Relationship? Clark has never dated Lucy in any continuity or else worlds he's been with WW a few times and here I thought the new 52 was about being different. Why are you defending them anyway? You have some point to prove or something? if you do I don't want to know.

Because all the comics exist in the same timeline now. Aside from Action Comics, which is still in the past, all the series are at the 5 years on from Justice League which is the current stage. And with the Lucy/Clark relationship, it's unclear whether it takes place before or after the Villain's Journey. I'd like to see some cohesion in these titles and if Superman is with Wonder Woman now, they need to end things with Lucy. With Lobdell taking over the title, I bet that it won't even be referenced. It'll be swept under the rug now and not even referenced if the H'El crossover is anything to go by.

@Omega-Man said:

Also Superman #15 thats gonna come out in a couple of months time Lex Luthor is in it and from the cover he's in prison. why is he in prison? Lex hasn't appeared since Action comics first saga and even then he wasn't really a villain. And Superman is going to lex to learn how to stop H'el how would Lex know how to stop or kill a kryptonian? he hasn't discovered Kryptonite hell he hasn't done ANYTHING to say he's a villain so why is he in Prison?

That I can't answer. It's something I've tried to figure out myself. At the end of Action Comics, he was set to become the big business in Metropolis and now he's in prison? Makes no sense. Plus I hoped for Lex to remain in the background working behind the scenes to take down Superman. But this takes away those story opportunites.

@Omega-Man said:

@sentryman555: No they were never together according to Lvenger despite Roy asking if Starfire remembered any of them. I don't know how that logic goes.

See this comment:

@Lvenger said:

In flashbacks, there was some kind of Teen Titans team that at least had met before. Roy, Dick and Starfire were on that team and it is implied Starfire and Dick did have a relationship of some kind. But Wolfman's history of the Teen Titans has been wiped out and the New 52 incarnation is the first Teen Titans team in that continuity. A real dumb idea if you ask me.

This is complete bullcrap. Anyone who has read a lot of Bat-related titles through the years knows that Tim Drake was not only Robin, but the best one there ever was. They would also know that Tim along with Cassie Cain were the best and most interesting in the Bat-family, and both have been marginalized in the new 52. Why would DC give Lobdell these liberties? Once again, bullcrap

@sentryman555 said:

@Lvenger said:

@Omega-Man said:

Red Hood and the Outlaws is a different timeline again from Teen Titans as Starfire has served in the Titans before Roy even asked her if she remembered Garfield and Vic and even Dick so a TT has been before but in TT comics it's the first and only TT team. This is in a different timeline from Teen Titans and Justice league and Ravagers as Vic/Cyborg has never been on the Teen Titans Gar/Beast boy is on the Ravagers never been on the Teen Titans either and Dick/Nightwing has never been on any team at all so it's even in a different time line from Nightwing comics.

That was due to an editorial mix up from DC. Basically now, the Teen Titans are never supposed to have existed formally in the way they did as Wolfman wrote them. Gar never was a Titan as he's only showed up now. Neither was Victor as he's been a Leaguer for 5 years.

So does that mean Starfire and Nightwing never had a relationship? I'm confused about that because I thought it had been established that they used to be together. But how were they together with no teen titans team??? GAAAAHHH!! MY MIND!

In flashbacks, there was some kind of Teen Titans team that at least had met before. Roy, Dick and Starfire were on that team and it is implied Starfire and Dick did have a relationship of some kind. But Wolfman's history of the Teen Titans has been wiped out and the New 52 incarnation is the first Teen Titans team in that continuity. A real dumb idea if you ask me.

I love that there are people out there who think the reboot is good. In short, you're awful and should be ashamed.

@sentryman555: No they were never together according to Lvenger despite Roy asking if Starfire remembered any of them. I don't know how that logic goes.

@Top Flight Security said:

They done messed me up with this one. Wow. I only take the editors to task when they specifically said that they were not making a new continuity but with the events of Flashpoint, anything goes so there should be no reason to be mad.

This.

@sentryman555: Fair enough, though Raven's going to be in Phantom Stranger #1, or at least seems to be based off the preview i saw on titans tower, so there's that at least.

@Lvenger said:

@Omega-Man said:

Red Hood and the Outlaws is a different timeline again from Teen Titans as Starfire has served in the Titans before Roy even asked her if she remembered Garfield and Vic and even Dick so a TT has been before but in TT comics it's the first and only TT team. This is in a different timeline from Teen Titans and Justice league and Ravagers as Vic/Cyborg has never been on the Teen Titans Gar/Beast boy is on the Ravagers never been on the Teen Titans either and Dick/Nightwing has never been on any team at all so it's even in a different time line from Nightwing comics.

That was due to an editorial mix up from DC. Basically now, the Teen Titans are never supposed to have existed formally in the way they did as Wolfman wrote them. Gar never was a Titan as he's only showed up now. Neither was Victor as he's been a Leaguer for 5 years.

So does that mean Starfire and Nightwing never had a relationship? I'm confused about that because I thought it had been established that they used to be together. But how were they together with no teen titans team??? GAAAAHHH!! MY MIND!

@Lvenger:

Actually you haven't just because they make edits later on proves they don't know what they are doing. both John Stewart and Guy have stated to have been on the Justice League and haven't, Hal acts nothing like he did in Justice League. And why should they get rid of the Lucy Relationship? Clark has never dated Lucy in any continuity or else worlds he's been with WW a few times and here I thought the new 52 was about being different. Why are you defending them anyway? You have some point to prove or something? if you do I don't want to know.

Also Superman #15 thats gonna come out in a couple of months time Lex Luthor is in it and from the cover he's in prison. why is he in prison? Lex hasn't appeared since Action comics first saga and even then he wasn't really a villain. And Superman is going to lex to learn how to stop H'el how would Lex know how to stop or kill a kryptonian? he hasn't discovered Kryptonite hell he hasn't done ANYTHING to say he's a villain so why is he in Prison?

@scuzz2.0: I disagree. I've been enjoying Red Hood immensely. I find Teen Titans at least entertaining. His work on Superboy, while exceedingly different from Preboot, was pretty engaging.

@GothamRed said:

I don't get why people are reacting this strongly, has anyone read the new titans series, it was never really good. This doesn't affect me because the series lost be by issue 2. Tim never being Robin is annoying, but it shouldn't be the reason you give up on the New 52, if you really felt that way you would have felt that way before now.

Honestly people shouldn't blame Lobdell for this either, he wrote that Tim WAS Robin in his first issue, so clearly this was a choice by DC editorial after the fact. The same with Tim's Titans being the first team. I feel bad for Lobdell cause he's been getting undeserved hate for his series while DC keeps screwing him over and contradicting him.

@Captain13: miss martian was in issue one of teen titans, she's there, she's just not relevant yet

Yeah I agree that Lobdell is getting some seriously undeserved hate from some people on here. He even stated in an interview before that he originally wrote titans and Red Hood with the assumption that everything that happened, had well....Happened! Tim never being Robin and only being Red Robin shouldn't be that big of a deal. He still fought crime. We should be focusing on the missing characters. A one panel scene where Tim is watching Miss Martian and Raven on a screen does not count as a suitable cameo!

@RoboShark said:

People take their comics a little too seriously sometimes. I don't get too caught up on continuity.

agreed

@Jawshco: dude I'm with you 100% on that statement.I haven't read it yet but I'll reserve my final judgement for when I do. Personally thou Scott is somewhat-kinda-okayish with the writing for Tim and the Titans but I think they should of kept Chris Yost. I did the characters some justice especially Tim.

@UrbanChill: because it wouldn't just be an insult to Tim's creator or the people who worked him up but it would validate that everything that's ever stayed cannon in DC was a lie and insult those writers and creators even more so than retconning their stuff. Because then you're telling them you're not even good enough to be retconned. You're stuff is fake and this is reality.

why dont in the next issue of teen titans they state that the entire red robin series of the pre new 52 was all a dream world of tam foxes mind who just so happened to slip in the batcave one day to fall into a coma

@neale7: Amen. Well for the most part dude they only trimmed things down with Zero Hour or the many crisisees. History and personalities were kept in tact and slightly altered.

@haydenclaireheroes: The Zero's were supposed to be what fixed all these series up. As you see so far in the Green Lantern books there are no origin stories except for for their new lantern though it was promised. I wouldn't mind so much that Tim's parents are still alive as to what that means for character developmnent for a lot of characters? Tower of Babel never happened or Identity Crisis. The first Crisis never happened and where the frack is Earth 2 Superman if the first crisis never happened? I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm coming off as obnoxious but I don't pay for crap and haven't given DC my money in a year. I'll stand in a comic book store and read shit but when it comes down to it top cow is currently getting my money, image is getting my money but DC most definately doesn't. I even find it disgusting they're pushing Nightfall back out even though they retconned the book so that they can make money off of Dark Knight Rises. I'm sorry movie bane and comic bane... don't know about now but Knightfall's comic bane is drastically different from Dark Knight Rises. If the book was worth shoving out for people to buy again when that movie came out it was good enough to keep in cannon.

Right i'm gonna get straight to the point on this. The only way DC will listen (maybe) to all of the fans that don't agree and are angry at the changes is if you all stop buying the comics. No money will mean a forced approach for DC to see what is wrong with the comics and then address it. You all complain that you don't like the changes but still buy the comics, and then continue to moan. I really don't get it. Why waste your money on stuff that your not happy with? At the moment DC doesn't care what any fans think as long as the dollars keep rolling in and the books still selling. Which is what most if not all of you are doing. You keep giving them money for stuff you not happy with. What you’re buying now probably won't even mater in about 4-5years anyway, as knowing DC, another reboot or overhaul will change everything and make the new 52 irrelevant like what preceded it.

I don't really care if his parents are alive or not, but I still think that they need to fix this series up. I use to love the Teen Titans, and it is sad for me to say that I had to drop it. It just didn't have good enough story, and they ruined alot of my favorite characters

@MyNemesisTotoro said:

It's really pretty dumb how upset people get over this stuff. 1. How does this matter much? It could be good but you gotta give it a chance. 2. I thought the scene where his father dies in Identity Crisis was an amazing scene. and 3. In terms of the New 52 as a whole was it supposed to stay exactly the same forever? I'm just rolling with it. My favorite character got an entirely new origin but I still think he's great and I'm gonna give it a chance first. I love the old comics and collect them and keep collecting the new ones too. Get over it. How can they make new stories for new fans with outdated characters? Granted they have to appeal to new AND old fans but seriously he changed one thing. Woah, we better stop reading all DC stuff! *sarcasm*

I don't want to go too deep down this dark path, but I have to point out that attitudes like this are part of the problem. MyNemesisTotoro, please don't take this as an attack on you personally--you just represent the majority of comics readers and have said something that is indicative of exactly the type of attitude that allows writers and editors to do whatever they want without trepidation.

The so called 'giving it a chance' is a ploy. It's what the Big Two bank on. It's how they make they money and allow creators who are clearly not putting out work that people enjoy to mess around with characters and books and whatever. It's almost a guarantee for them--they know that no matter how shitty the story or how many people complain that they don't like it, that people will buy it anyway. Hell, it's probably the whole reason why comic books are still around to begin with. The guarantee of the customer and reader needs to stop if we want good books. It pisses me off to no end when I come on here and see people complaining about how bad a book was, and yet still plan on buying the book! It's ridiculous. You're wasting your money, and at the same time you're making the problem worse! Why buy stuff that you do not enjoy reading? Because you're favorite character is in it? That's a cop out. We do not need to read books just because of the characters they feature. You're a collector and want a complete collection? Fine by me. But if you're going to still buy the book every month, regardless of how it reads of what the art looks like, then you've not really a leg to stand on when you complain!

Come on, guys. We're better than this. We're better than to allow two companies to take advantage of our readership and patronage. The comic book industry is not what it used to be and instead of just complaining about it, do something. Stop buying the books that you don't enjoy! You hate Lobdell's work? Hate what he's done to Titans and whatever else? The stop buying his damn books! Don't take to twitter and forums and just say that you don't like it--show DC that you don't like by not giving them your money! You think for a minute that DC honchos are sitting around pondering the fact that many people on the internet hate Lobdell's work? You kidding yourself. They are however pondering the sales figures and how much money Lobdell's books are raking in. By that fact alone, the only way affect change is to hit DC and Lobdell (or any other creator) in the finances. Don't give them a damn dollar if for anything that you haven't enjoyed in a few issues. You're money can be much better spent on other books. Here's what I do: for every damn DC that I've dropped since the launch of the New 52 (I'm down to two now), I've picked up something new and gave that a chance. Why? Because it deserves it! Much more so than the crappy books that I hated reading. So, if I make any sense to you at all, go to your shop and don't buy Titans 0. Spend those few dollars on a book on the stands that looks interesting to you.

Sorry for the diatribe. But this has to be said.

For everyone claiming his parents asked Batman, c'mon, be realistic. They obviously asked Bruce Wayne. I need to read this and find out more.