The Future of BATMAN AND ROBIN Revealed

Tomasi really made us love Damian and developed the character. Grant Morrison killed him to make his name go down in history as the guy who killed Damian Wayne.

And another thing that is just sad...

NEARLY EVERYONE IS HAPPY MORRISON KILLED DAMIAN!!!!!

AND THAT IS JUST WRONG!!!!

I understand some people didn't like the character and he's made up and all but he's still a kid! And everyone is going on about how happy they are! It's just wrong.

@DMC: true...but Death of Captain America and Final Crisis happened around the same time so you can assume that it wasn't a total ripoff, just a case of similar thinking happening around the same time. However, this is happening years later and I can't help but think that there is at least a little bit of influence on the Bat books.

@DMC: lol you need to look at the bigger picture. What happens in Marvel happens in DC and vice versa.

In no order and not exact but similar in event or feel

Blackest night (2009-2010) - Chaos Wars (2010-2011)

Omac Project (2005) - Extremis (2005)

Brightest Day (2010) - The Heroic Age (2010)

just to name a few (sorry i was going to post more but i am at work lol)

@Night Thrasher said:

This sounded interesting about five years ago when I read it in Captain America. Not just one but two Cap arcs lumped together!? Where's the fanboys ranting about how this is a total ripoff?

I wouldn't say that. What happens to Cap happens to Batman more often than not. Think of the last six years.

1) Batman dies in Final Crisis / Cap dies in issue #25 after Civil War

2) Dick Grayson becomes Batman, Bucky becomes Cap

3) Return of Bruce Wayne / Captain America Reborn.

4) the Cap & Bucky title changes to Iron Man, Hawkeye & Black Widow

coincidence? Maybe but I've just come to accept it.

I just hope this only lasts for 5 issues like tomasi said. I dont want Batman and Robin to become the official Batman the Brave and The Bold book

@longbowhunter said:

I'm kinda indifferent to this. I bought Batman & Robin for Damian.

me too

i say make Helena from earth 2 the new robin. she is batman's kid just from over there and she was robin.

@RedheadedAtrocitus: I'm with you, sir. I think flying solo is going be a good way for Bruce to re-focus on his mission, and eventually see that father-son dynamic he had in the 20-20 vision that is hindsight. It would be a good move, for sure.

and to@ZZoMBiE13: Where do we as readers and creators get off glorying in our character's pain? We've seen Bruce in pain, depression, and a state of brooding for years. And all we want is more? What happened to fans to wanted to see their favourite characters win, see them redeemed? We say, you know, "Batman always wins", like his individual fisticuffs are the victories that count. But what's his goal? To honour his father and mother, Thomas and Martha's memory, and achieve a state of Gotham that they would be proud of. He's never won. Thanks to us, who get off watching him drag himself through mud and mental torment, he's never reached his goal. He's tried to be a father, many times.What if he was allowed by writers to become a successful father, form a bond with his son and be the stronger for it? Imagine the Bat Family...as a real family. Except that we've robbed him of all those chances because we love seeing him in pain. Alan moore argues in League that we as the creators of fiction have a responsibility to those living in the realities we construct, and I think at this point the writers at DC are dishonouring Martha and Thomas Wayne. So you want to see Bruce spiral out of control, hit the bottom, totally lose it? Great. You and everyone else out there whose desire for emotional trauma resulted in the death of Damian.

I want to see Batman redeemed.

At this point I just wanna see Bats go solo for now and have all this make good on what the "Death of the Family" aura from Snyder gave us. Temporary team ups, that's fine and I'm sure they'll be great. For me? I'll just have Bruce be flying solo bat for now to be truly happy.

This sounded interesting about five years ago when I read it in Captain America. Not just one but two Cap arcs lumped together!? Where's the fanboys ranting about how this is a total ripoff?

@ChocolateFrogs:I don't think Catwoman knows his identity at the moment. She didn't know in Catwoman #1, and I don't think she's been seen to find out since then. He may have revealed it to her in another series, but I don't know if he has.

So as far as I know, she doesn't know yet.

@ccraft: I really feel like Tim and Dick will be able to help Bruce. But Todd will just drive Bruce's anger since he has so much of it himself.

Here's what I think:

#19 — Batman and Red Robin--Denial

Reverting back to teaming up with the latest incarnation of Robin as if nothing changed. Tim has to make Bruce realize Tim isn't who Bruce wants him to be.

#20 — Batman and Red Hood--Anger

Red Hood could help fuel Bruce's anger. Bruce is angry his son died, like Todd did, and takes his anger out on the fact Todd came back.

#21 — Batman and Batgirl--Bargaining

This perplexes me, but maybe he bargains with her that everything will be OK if she joins his side as regular crime-fighting partners. She knows that's not the best idea.

#22 — Batman and Catwoman--Depression

Bruce needs a shoulder to cry on and a someone to comfort him--who better than a past, sexy* flame? (Does she know his identity, or is Hush null after New 52? Does Riddler know?) *Sexy is up for debate though.

#23 — Batman and Nightwing--Acceptance

The original Robin finally gets to help Bruce recover. It makes sense that it's Dick.

As a Batman Beyond fanatic, I think this turn of events will be good because Damian Wayne is a conflicted anti-hero like Jason Todd. Its too bad that the Hush Beyond story arc involved a clone of Dick Grayson posing as the new Hush. It would have made a bigger impact if Damian was the one locked up in Cadmus Labs after having Gotham wired to explode in Batman 666. Hush Beyond would go on and on about calling Terry McGinnis a pretender of the real Batman like the mantle of the Batman should have fallen to him or should be returned to him. The whole issue about Damian and Connor Kent all grown up and replacing Batman and Superman was kind of a good idea but the chronology was off for me and akward because Damian was training Terry and not Bruce. Terry McGinnis' parents would be the same age as Damian and having Terry trained by Damian who would be no older than his own father, would be redundant. That kind of takes away from the bond of old Batman sharing his war stories with the younger, inexperienced Batman of the future.

Anyhow, if the Red Hood could turn Batman's world upside down, imagine what Batman's own son could do. People will be glad to see Damian's old sadistic self resurrected by the Lazarus Pits (any other form of resurrection would probably be viewed as unoriginal like cloning or another reality altering event). I just fear the worst for Tim Drake because Damian has always had it in for him. Jason will probably want to eliminate Damian since neither one cares for one another. Dick and Bruce would be the only targets that Damian would have a tough time trying to kill. True, Damian didn't leave this world on bitter terms with his father or surrogate brother but it would make for a great story arc if Damian becomes a villain. What do you think?

Definitely gonna get #23.

I kinda would like to see the next issue of Justice League opening up with a memorial to him and Batman just loses it in his grief falling down crying and bawling with the rest of the league trying to comfort him. I know we all love Batman as this tough, gruff, badass but that gets old sometimes and I think if anything this should put him into a spiral of depression or rage and he starts actually killing criminals or at least those associated with Damian's death. This is a great opportunity to show us a different side of Batman. Maybe even have him give up for a bit and introduce Azreael/JPV to the N52. I don't care, I think it would be great to see Batman Bawling over the death of his son and Superman or WW giving him a hug, him crying on their shoulders

@blackair9 said:

I concur with @longbowhunter Damien was the lead of this book andeveryone else felt more supporting characters. I can't see him staying dead he way to popular of a character and there is the issue of the clone body parts and such his mother keeps. what would be interesting would be the Huntress reaction. It would be a good way to bring her into the Bat Family. Would also be a good basis for a 'Robins" mini-series to bring back Damien.

Huntresses' reaction is in Worlds Finest #10

There's a few pages of preview here: http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2013/02/worlds-finest-exclusive-preview

@Phaedrusgr You might like to see this too. ^

This is a good idea. Just sucks that it came so close after Death of the Family. As soon as he loses them, he has an issue with each of them.

@Phaedrusgr said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: No, no. I said I'd love to see Huntress' participation, but it wouldn't be possible and you gave me hope, saying it's possible etc etc. That's all! ;)

Ah right. We'll maybe see some interaction at some point after the grief issues. :)

I agree, they shouldn't replace Robin so quickly so this sounds interesting.

I would check out them out.

I want Damien back.

NOW

While I think that this sounds like a really strong approach to continuing the series, without Damien, I'm just not on board. Hopefully the issues do good business without me; Tomasi, Gleason, and Gray have been doing a terrific job so far.

I read this book, and I liked Damian. I hated that he was 10. That was just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid

I concur with @longbowhunter Damien was the lead of this book andeveryone else felt more supporting characters. I can't see him staying dead he way to popular of a character and there is the issue of the clone body parts and such his mother keeps. what would be interesting would be the Huntress reaction. It would be a good way to bring her into the Bat Family. Would also be a good basis for a 'Robins" mini-series to bring back Damien.

@StMichalofWilson said:

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

Interesting

So very… Predictable. Wouldn't it have been more interesting to put these characters in a different order? So pushing your writing abilities to the test, trying to make Jason Acceptance, Tim Anger, Catwoman Bargaining, Dick Depression, And Barbara Denial? Mix it up a little.

Damian isn't staying dead for long, we all know that. But, a team-up book sounds really interesting.

I just wanna see Bruce spiral into depression. Totally lose it, Stark style. Have him hitting the bottle with vigor and gusto.

I'm disappointed.

Makes me wonder how this will affect the Batman Beyond story.

Don'tcha see Bats? They make you weak. Too weak to protect the weakest card in your royal flush. Soon you'll be too weak to save any of them and one by one they'll fall. All you'll be left with is exactly what you had after that night in Crime Alley. Billions of dollars and no one to love ya! Ha Ha! Well at least you still have meEEeeeeee.

I hope after those five issues they keep Batman with a rotating partner each moth. Eventually he'll have to get a new Robin but I say to give it at least a year our time. IF they really need a Robin right after those five I wouldn't like it but I'd say bring back Damian. I would absolutely hate if Harper Row became Robin.

Batman and the E Street Band

@DestineSavior: Same here my alt in RPG section is based on him.

@EdwardWindsor said:

20 will be mine

Can't agree more, Love RH

@DEGRAAF: I doubt Batman will tell Catwoman who he is in the new 52 she is a very different and lesser character in comparison with her pre-52 counterpart who was a orphan who clawed her way top became a master theif, a big sister to Holly Robinson and became strong member of the Bat-Family confident in her love for Bruce, had well developed relationships with most of the Bat-Family and was a character that through he friendship's, love for Bruce and small stint as a mother really matured as a person. The new 52 Catwoman is a crazy bitch who was resurrected by magical cat's, who's relationship with Batman is mostly comprised of booty calls which saddens me.

@Trevel8182 said:

@Outside_85: He can't save Tim Drake because Tim in the new 52 isn't even the same character anymore that character is so different now the Tim Drake pre-52 used his detective skills to find out who Batman was tried to convince Nightwing to become Robin again because he understood that Batman needed a Robin pre-52 Tim had a loving family that made him stand out from the rest of the Robins the Tim Drake in the new 52 did not figure out who Batman was, new 52 Tim is arrogant and believed he deserved to Robin so he purposely put his parents in witness protection so he could live with Batman and was never called Robin nor is his real name Tim Drake.

This. QFT.

@Trevel8182: Unfortunately that's all true...here's to hoping it's not too late.

@Outside_85 said:

@Mbecks14 said:

@Outside_85 said:

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

True that. Maybe they'll be able to fix him?

Honestly I doubt whatever it was Joker did to Tim and Jason will be allowed to pass as easily as the rest of DotF. He probably could fix him, but I don't think DC will allow it.

Well I think in order to fix Tim they'd need to make the editorial decision to reinstate his old origin and pretend the new 52 one never happened.

@Outside_85: He can't save Tim Drake because Tim in the new 52 isn't even the same character anymore that character is so different now the Tim Drake pre-52 used his detective skills to find out who Batman was tried to convince Nightwing to become Robin again because he understood that Batman needed a Robin pre-52 Tim had a loving family that made him stand out from the rest of the Robins the Tim Drake in the new 52 did not figure out who Batman was, new 52 Tim is arrogant and believed he deserved to Robin so he purposely put his parents in witness protection so he could live with Batman and was never called Robin nor is his real name Tim Drake.

Bring back Damian!

damian was the only reason i read batman and robin, so i'm gonna drop this book i guess. i miss you damian.....

@ccraft said:

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

It will and I am definitely choked right now to even want to pick it up.

@Mbecks14 said:

@Outside_85 said:

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

True that. Maybe they'll be able to fix him?

Honestly I doubt whatever it was Joker did to Tim and Jason will be allowed to pass as easily as the rest of DotF. He probably could fix him, but I don't think DC will allow it.

I am still extremely sad/butthurt over Damian's death, but the title has been good, so I have hope that they'll be able to keep it interesting.

@Outside_85 said:

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

True that. Maybe they'll be able to fix him?

All great Ideas. Have nothing against about these things.

@entropy_aegis said:

That's the entire family right there,so much for DOTF.@feargalr said:

@TheRobberBarron said:

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

I agree... mostly.

There's been way too many huge stories happening in Batman lately, having the court and joker back to back was a mistake IMO, both were great stories but it was too much too fast, especially with the Batman Inc. stuff too. Like Batman has basically been questioning everything he thought he knew every other week now. Then again perhaps this is building up to a bigger story or something... I hope...

I also think having Death Of The Family and Damian dying so close together, but completely separate, was a big mistake, it takes away a lot of weight or something from Death Of The Family.

But I'll be reading these, Tomasi is a good guy and he writes the best Damian IMO... no... actually he wrote the best Damian... :(

Um no he writes Damian incomplete,he gets the insecure child looking for approval part but completely downplays the aristocrat in Damian,Morrison writes the best Damian followed by Bryan Q Miller,Joshua Williamson and Paul Dini.

Umm well actually that's my opinion so... yeah he writes the best Damian IMO

@ccraft said:

Well put, I'm glad you agree with Bruce showing Catwoman his identity, I just hope it's handled well. I'm really looking forward to see how this plays out with the rest of the Bat Family. Although I'm glad Batwoman isn't apart of this, I'd really like to see what Bruce thinks of Batwoman, and in his state it would be more interesting.

But I'm worried about what Peter Tomasi said about a new Robin. "I will say that I didn't want to take the usual road that's been traveled when it comes to the 'Batman needs a Robin' angle," I'm glad he's not taking the same route, but I hope some how Damian comes back, there's a few ways it could happen. I just don't want to see a new Robin.

The way i took that is that he didn't want Batman to grieve and then find a new Robin but maybe stay a solo hero without a side kick for a while (even if that means he fights along other characters of the bat family)

@DurararaFTW: This seems more suited to be called DOTF

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: No, no. I said I'd love to see Huntress' participation, but it wouldn't be possible and you gave me hope, saying it's possible etc etc. That's all! ;)

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

Interesting

I posted this yesterday. You're behind the ball comicvine. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/new-information-about-the-batman-and-robin-series/754561/