Comic Vine News

101 Comments

Six Developments from BATMAN #0

We might know the story of how Bruce Wayne became Batman but there are many details now being revealed for the first time. [SPOILERS]

Pretty much everyone knows Batman's origin and the story of how he became the Dark Knight. His parents were killed in front of him when he was a child. He vowed vengeance against evil. He traveled the world to train his mind and body to reach perfection. He returned to Gotham City and became a masked vigilante after being inspired to take on the form of a bat.

No Caption Provided

With the New 52, we have seen some changes and tweaks in the origins of characters. It turns out there is a little more to Batman's story. The details now revealed offer insight into the little moments in between what we already knew. Some are clarifications while others are brand new facts we can now see unfold.

There will indeed be spoilers for BATMAN #0. We won't give away everything. You will definitely want to buy this issue for yourself to see how the history of Batman (and Robins, plural) unfolds in the New 52.

== TEASER ==

The Red Hood Gang

No Caption Provided

The existence of the Red Hood Gang isn't new. We've seen them before and we know Joker was involved. The telling in THE KILLING JOKE made it so the 'leader' wore the helmet but that person was really meant to take the heat if the police arrived. Joker wore it and was meant to be a patsy. Of course whether or not that was his true origin was left vague as Joker admitted he sometimes got his facts incorrect. In the original first appearance in DETECTIVE COMICS #168, "Red Hood" was also revealed to be the Joker who eluded Batman and Robin for a bit.

In this issue, the leader has a slightly modified helmet. He does appear to be fully in control of the other "Red Hoods" in the gang. That marks another difference, everyone in the gang wears a red mask. If the Red Hood here is indeed Joker, he's not the sniveling sop that was portrayed in THE KILLING JOKE. They're a deadly crew. Killing is not an issue and Bruce has made it his mission to try to stop them.

Batman and his Gadgets

No Caption Provided

This was a time before Bruce even came up with the Batman guise. He has a pretty fancy looking motorcycle used to get away when things heat up. There's also a ton of equipment (see image below) that shows the beginning of his arsenal.

Bruce has been busy in gathering the tools he'd need to fight crime. Because he's just starting out, he needs to be careful with what he uses. Later when Gordon visits Bruce, he mentions the mysterious vigilante using some serious tech.

Bruce Lived in the City Rather than the Manor

No Caption Provided

In DETECTIVE COMICS #0, we witnessed Bruce Wayne returning to Wayne Manor where Alfred was tending to everything. Here we find out Bruce has decided not to live in the mansion.

As Bruce prepares his 'war' against crime, he felt it was essential to live in a brownstone in Crime Alley, where his parents were killed. It did allow him to be closer to the city but also added another element to arouse suspicion over why rich Bruce Wayne would choose to stay there instead of his mansion.

Bruce Wayne was the Mask Already

No Caption Provided

We all know that Batman is the real identity and Bruce Wayne is the mask. Batman is who he is. Even before that fateful night when Bruce is pondering what was the extra thing he needs to bring fear to the criminal scum and he discovers a bat, Bruce Wayne was already gone. It could be said that Bruce Wayne did die Crime Alley the same night his parents did.

If this is the case, who did he consider himself? Batman wasn't officially born just yet. But he clearly knew that he wasn't Bruce Wayne.

Gordon Was Suspicious of Bruce

No Caption Provided

Bruce was away from Gotham for four years. When he came back, Bruce Wayne didn't make too many appearances. Moving to Crime Alley and not getting involved in Wayne Enterprises made people, Gordon included, wonder what Bruce was doing with all his time. The fact that there was a vigilante with big resources easily made Bruce a likely suspect. Gordon warned Bruce that anyone discovered to know anything about the vigilante or offering aide would go to prison as a public example.

What we don't know is what made Gordon change his tune to becoming Batman's biggest supporter (perhaps the events from BATMAN: YEAR ONE).

"Five Years Ago" - What Were the Robins Up to?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

We finally have clarification on how long there has been a Robin.

Five years ago, there weren't any. Dick Grayson was still at Haly's Circus, getting ready for the weekend performance where the rich and famous Bruce Wayne would be attending.

Jason Todd is trying to survive on the streets and has resorted to robbing convenience stores with a buddy (it doesn't go well).

Tim Drake is a top student at Graystone Academy. He's clearly brilliant and very tech savvy. He has no problem standing up to authority as well as carrying out a certain sense of justice.

This isn't everything that happens in the issue. There's also a conversation between Barbara Gordon and her father that should be checked out. The first use of the Bat-Signal is here as well. It seems rather than have so many current Batman titles, we could benefit and enjoy a series taking place in the past (as I suggested in December 2011).

The zero issues are showing that there is a lot of history that could be explored and clarified. Perhaps someday we'll get all the answers we're looking for.

Tony Guerrero is the Editor-in-Chief of Comic Vine. You can follow him on Twitter @GManFromHeck. Most likely there are events in his past five years that are unknown...only because he's forgotten about them.

101 Comments

Avatar image for darkmount1
Darkmount1

1535

Forum Posts

19439

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 12

Edited By Darkmount1

@ltbrd: That is the most sensible response to this story I have ever seen.

Avatar image for neiliusprime
neiliusprime

330

Forum Posts

21

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

Edited By neiliusprime

Batman and his TRON light cycle lol

Avatar image for ironherc
IronHerc

229

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 101

User Lists: 2

Edited By IronHerc

How is it, that even young justice got it right in putting the beginning of the series at least 10 years after superman first appeared. As much as i liked how well written this issue was, i just can't accept the idea that it really took 5 years to have 4 robins.......i'm sorry but people don't read comics just because the main heroes are young (don't they have the young justice section that should be aimed towards quality stories for younger audiences? one that really needs help and fast?) Heck! I still haven't read any comic in the new 52 that the age made any difference with the main heroes of the DCU. Did court of owls became such a epic story because bruce wayne was younger? wonder woman? flash? green lantern? animal man? swamp thing? aquaman? no!!! damnit now i'm ranting but this is dumb......really...really....dumb.....bet it wasn't even snyders fault (editors probably put the timeframe).

Avatar image for mbembet
mbembet

216

Forum Posts

10

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By mbembet

lmao it won't be long  until snyder becomes another asshole like geoff johns

Avatar image for cancer_the_conqueror
Cancer the Conqueror

83

Forum Posts

8

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Despite Bruce saying this himself in Batman Beyond, I don't believe when he literally thinks in his head, he refers to himself as "Batman" instead of "Bruce" (Such a statement probably just came from senility anyways). The way I always saw it, Bruce was disillusioned over Bruce Wayne the as a concept or public figure, that prevented him from genuinely expressing himself. His personality traits that could not be accepted in a normal sense, and his status and the way people regarded him held him back. By putting on a mask and cape, those inner feelings can be attached to another face with completely different expectations, and in that Bruce feels more comfortable and true to who he feels is his true identity and his expressions.

While this rings true for Bruce beginning as Batman, I would like to see the dots connected to what I saw in Batman #1. Here, he is young, confused, and in a bit of an identity crisis. Later on here appears moe balanced in his life as both Batman and Bruce Wayne (The establishment of Batman Inc. probably helped); now he realizes he can contribute to his ultimate goal of curing Gotham of crime as both figures. That shows a more well-rounded hero, but this new, flawed portrayal is equally appealing.

Avatar image for sandman_
SandMan_

4581

Forum Posts

65

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SandMan_

Still a mess...

Avatar image for owie
owie

9565

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

Edited By owie  Moderator

I really enjoyed the backup story.  I don't care so much about the continuity issues.  I just thought it was a really nicely told story.  I wasn't really looking at the connections at first, and reading it kind of lazily, and when it all came together, it was really nice.  Plus the art in it was great.

Avatar image for catgirlofsteel
catgirlofsteel

16

Forum Posts

7

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By catgirlofsteel

@feebadger: I agree.

Avatar image for fenixrevolution
fenixREVOLUTION

921

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By fenixREVOLUTION

I didn't mind the retcons too much honestly. Thought the Red Hood Gang was a nice change. And apparently Batman went through Robins pretty quick.

Avatar image for motyrreb
MotYrreb

4

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By MotYrreb

Right man. This was the worst Batman story I've ever read by Snyder. Can't believe his name is on it. The art looks amateurish and rushed. I threw the issue away in disgust. Wish I had not ordered it.

Avatar image for carnivalofsins00
carnivalofsins00

1224

Forum Posts

53

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 155

User Lists: 8

Edited By carnivalofsins00

This is Snyder's weakest issue of Batman. The back up, by James Tynion, was a lot better actually.

Avatar image for redhush1
RedHush1

162

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By RedHush1

Maybe Jason's friend will be explained in Red Hood and the Outlaws. But you notice they are both wearing red mask also? I know they are not similar to the Red Hood gang. But maybe there upcomers in the gang the his buddy is trying to get them in Maybe they will have Joker and Jason have some history even before Batman and maybe thats one of the possible reasons he killed him

Avatar image for redhush1
RedHush1

162

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By RedHush1

And also I just remembered. If that man leading the gang is Joker. Does that mean Dick was Robin when Joker first came around? Or was Joker's first appearance when Jason was Robin? And if true that means he crippled Barbara then killed Jason? Wouldn't that push Bruce a little far. Or Did he cripple Barbara when Dick was Robin and kill JAson when he was. Because those are two bad years for Batman then.

Avatar image for thenameiswayne
TheNameIsWayne

68

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 20

Edited By TheNameIsWayne

@RedHush1: Barbara was crippled before Jason's death. He references that as a reason as to why Joker should be put down.

Avatar image for redheadedatrocitus
RedheadedAtrocitus

6958

Forum Posts

8982

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 3

Okay how old is Damien then? If all of this is 5 years ago, and Damien we are assuming to be at least 10, then where has Bruce had time to father him yet with Talia? I mean I'm not reading the titles currently so I can't say much for what is going on in the Batman family, but still, just seems odd. And I like the bit about the Red Hood gang as well and Gordon being suspicious, which I think is spot on with classic Gordon behavior. Awesome!

Avatar image for wessaari
wessaari

752

Forum Posts

61

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 62

User Lists: 7

Edited By wessaari

@TheMess1428: i read batman and robin, it might have come through his training or i have the impression that damian grew faster due to the lazarus pit or he was grown in a chemical vat

Avatar image for senno
Senno

55

Forum Posts

62

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Senno

@Winken Goodfellow said:

I think Batman has to be at least in his thirties just for the fact of having an 11-year old son. Yes, it's possible to father children before your twenties. Do I think Batman, the man who plans everything, would do so? No, I do not. There's just something so wrong about thinking about Batman having a child at, I dunno, 17, and that's putting him in his LATE twenties. Can you imagine him knocking up Talia at 15? I sure as hell can't.

But you have to also consider the possibility of puberty. Surely his hormones might have overlooked his morals, as they do any young man. I think with the timeline at that point being so unknown that there is definitely a possibility, however remote. I think it's been deliberately misleading, so we can make educated guesses, but we can't be definite.

Avatar image for jonesdeini
JonesDeini

3874

Forum Posts

224

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 212

User Lists: 9

Edited By JonesDeini

So....anybody else feel this red hood will be the Joker? I mean this seems pretty obvious to me. Especially with the whole continued in 2013 thing. And considering how he operates he seems like a mix of Ledger/Morrison/Brubaker's takes on the Joker.

Avatar image for thenexusrebound
thenexusrebound

267

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By thenexusrebound

The five year limit was the only thing that kills me. It seems like a lot to happen in such a short time. I mean 10 years would have felt a bit more reasonable to me. Some time to establish Batman identity, and then time for the Justice League stuff. Other then that loved this issue.

Avatar image for nappystr8
nappystr8

1548

Forum Posts

859

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 19

User Lists: 5

Edited By nappystr8

It's funny that DC has gotten a reputation for having overbearing editors, when it's clear that the Batman family editorial staff is not hands on enough. I have read Batman #0 and Batman and Robin #0, and heard the events from Detective #0, while each is an excellent issue in it's own right, none of them stick to the same time table. From what I hear of Detective Bruce was away for 3 years, ending 7 years ago, in Batman it was 4 years away ending 6 years ago, and still is not Batman yet. And judging by the Bat cowl Damian wears in Batman and Robin, Bruce must have been fully active as Batman for at least 6 and a half years. Did no one ever sit down and sketch out a timeline for the writers?

Also not thrilled that Batman #0 is a cliffhanger to be resolved in 2013, how does that make logical sense. Obviously Red Hood 1 is the Joker pre-accident, and we are entering a Joker story in next issue, but it didn't say continued in #14 like we have with Green Lantern, but to be continued in 2013. That is preposterous.

In all other respects I have no issues with the bat books, they have been of excellent quality. This issue particularly had really great scenes with Gordon and Bruce's budding friendship. And the backup was the best part of the issue, we get to see exactly where all of the Robins were 6 years ago in writing just filled with personality. I am so impressed with Tynion that I almost want to follow his work on the new Talon series.

Avatar image for themess1428
TheMess1428

2211

Forum Posts

7470

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

Edited By TheMess1428

@wessaari said:

@TheMess1428: i read batman and robin, it might have come through his training or i have the impression that damian grew faster due to the lazarus pit or he was grown in a chemical vat

That was the only plausible explanation that I could think of. The chemicals and lazarus pit.

Avatar image for kal_el09
kal-el09

78

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By kal-el09

I agree, this 5 years thing is stupid! and tim was probably never a robin? Come on now! I like the stories and all. "Court of Owls" was great, but all this retcon is lame!

Avatar image for winken_goodfellow
Winken Goodfellow

6

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@Senno said:

@Winken Goodfellow said:

I think Batman has to be at least in his thirties just for the fact of having an 11-year old son. Yes, it's possible to father children before your twenties. Do I think Batman, the man who plans everything, would do so? No, I do not. There's just something so wrong about thinking about Batman having a child at, I dunno, 17, and that's putting him in his LATE twenties. Can you imagine him knocking up Talia at 15? I sure as hell can't.

But you have to also consider the possibility of puberty. Surely his hormones might have overlooked his morals, as they do any young man. I think with the timeline at that point being so unknown that there is definitely a possibility, however remote. I think it's been deliberately misleading, so we can make educated guesses, but we can't be definite.

True, hormones can override common sense, but I think it's stretching the bounds of plausibility even for comics to have Bruce and Talia hooking up at 14 or 15 and having a kid. At that point, Talia would have been pretty heavily under her father's wing (let's face it, he's pretty overprotective), and he probably wouldn't have let her get that close to a young Bruce as is. Ra's al Ghul doesn't have respect for Bruce Wayne, he respects The Detective, and before that, I don't think there would have been any sort of fraternization between them. Plus there's no way Ra's would have let Talia keep Damian at 15.

Avatar image for senno
Senno

55

Forum Posts

62

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Senno

@Winken Goodfellow said:

@Senno said:

@Winken Goodfellow said:

I think Batman has to be at least in his thirties just for the fact of having an 11-year old son. Yes, it's possible to father children before your twenties. Do I think Batman, the man who plans everything, would do so? No, I do not. There's just something so wrong about thinking about Batman having a child at, I dunno, 17, and that's putting him in his LATE twenties. Can you imagine him knocking up Talia at 15? I sure as hell can't.

But you have to also consider the possibility of puberty. Surely his hormones might have overlooked his morals, as they do any young man. I think with the timeline at that point being so unknown that there is definitely a possibility, however remote. I think it's been deliberately misleading, so we can make educated guesses, but we can't be definite.

True, hormones can override common sense, but I think it's stretching the bounds of plausibility even for comics to have Bruce and Talia hooking up at 14 or 15 and having a kid. At that point, Talia would have been pretty heavily under her father's wing (let's face it, he's pretty overprotective), and he probably wouldn't have let her get that close to a young Bruce as is. Ra's al Ghul doesn't have respect for Bruce Wayne, he respects The Detective, and before that, I don't think there would have been any sort of fraternization between them. Plus there's no way Ra's would have let Talia keep Damian at 15.

You make a good point. Ra's al Ghul would almost certainly have never allowed an underage teen keep a child. But then Talia is very much her own woman. But it also depends on the relationship that Bruce and Ra's had at the time. There were definitely points that they bonded, there was a master/child relationship, and possibly a maternal relationship as well - but the timeline isn't set in stone and the remoteness of the reality is unlikely, but I can't deny that considering just how often Bruce is beat up that he is going through mid-life and looking that good in tights. Then again, the theory of comics allows a certain leap of belief.

Avatar image for darthshap
DarthShap

880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By DarthShap

@JonesDeini said:

So....anybody else feel this red hood will be the Joker? I mean this seems pretty obvious to me. Especially with the whole continued in 2013 thing. And considering how he operates he seems like a mix of Ledger/Morrison/Brubaker's takes on the Joker.

I really do not think so. You would have to be very pretentious to even think you can top Alan Moore's Killing Joke.

Avatar image for bennyq
bennyq

464

Forum Posts

48

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By bennyq

I do love that Dicks Flying Grey sons costume has the night wing logo on it.

Avatar image for edimasta
Edimasta

22

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Edimasta

I was merely disappointed... the preview stated that I could finally find out how Bruce Wayne became Batman, developed the Tools and Tech and how his first adventures went. Then there are just a few pages with "continued in 2013" at the end... WTF???

Avatar image for fearing
fearing

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By fearing

@DarthShap: He's not really retconning anything(depending how you define retcon I suppose, he's not changing anything so much as adding to the pretty lengthy gaps between the scenes in Year One). According to what he's said, this happens in the gaps of Year One (as there are some pretty big gaps of time period there). As for the Red Hood gang, they'd have to have been around for a bit if at the end of Year One Gordon talks about this new guy going around called the Joker. The events in Killing Joke had to have happened during Year One, meaning the Red Hood gang would've had to have been around during that time, especially if Joker was not the first patsy to wear the Red Hood, which according to Killing Joke again would have to be the case since the Red Hood gang already had notoriety before pre-Joker Joker became the Red Hood in that story. So, the Red Hood gang clearly has always been around during Batman Year One, if not even before.

Avatar image for darthshap
DarthShap

880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By DarthShap

@fearing said:

@DarthShap: He's not really retconning anything. According to what he's said, this happens in the gaps of Year One (as there are some pretty big gaps of time period there). As for the Red Hood gang, they'd have to have been around for a bit if at the end of Year One Gordon talks about this new guy going around called the Joker. The events in Killing Joke had to have happened during Year One, meaning the Red Hood gang would've had to have been around during that time, especially if Joker was not the first patsy to wear the Red Hood, which according to Killing Joke again would have to be the case since the Red Hood gang already had notoriety before pre-Joker Joker became the Red Hood in that story. So, the Red Hood gang clearly has always been around during Batman Year One, if not even before.

I know the #0 is supposed to happen during the gaps of Year One but it adds scenes that just do not work with Year One. For instance, Bruce is supposed to almost die on his first night as a vigilante and on that same night, he sees the bat and right after that, becomes Batman. I am sorry but this just does not work with what we saw in the #0.

On top of that the Bruce Wayne-Jim Gordon dynamic is completely different from the one in Year One. There already was a scene where Gordon interrogated Wayne about Batman and it just was nothing alike.

As for the Red Hood gang, did I say that the Killing Joke happened after Year One? I do not think so.

My guess is that it happened in October or November of the year in question. Nothing indicates that the gang had existed for a long time when Joker was forced to wear the mask. On the contrary, the Killing Joke only mentions a robbery "last month". Bruce started to wear the cape and cowl in April. According to Year One, the Joker only appears in December. That is seven months. The Red Hood gang easily could have started in July, August or September, after Bruce became Batman, which would work with the message of the book, namely that Batman is changing crime in Gotham. That was kind of the whole point of the "From this moment on, none of you are safe" scene, followed by the appearance of Catwoman and the mention of the Joker at the end of the book.

Avatar image for tristanh
tristanh

4

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By tristanh

The thing is, we really don't know how long Tim was with Batman. He wasn't a Robin. He's been Red Robin, at least according to Batman's Who's Who in the back. "Joining Batman was the first Robin, Dick Greyson, the second Robin, Jason Todd (now Red Hood), Red Robin A.K.A. Tim Drake, and the current Robin, his son, Damien Wayne."

So really, there's only been three Robins in say 5 years, plus however involved Red Robin was. Regarding the Killing Joke, it's likely the only part of that still around is Barbara being shot, as they showed that in her #0 issue. Batgirl #0 has her being Batgirl for a year before going off to college and then getting shot. There is no bat signal when she starts, so she's already batgirl by the time the events shown above happen, or just about to be. There doesn't seem to be a Robin during the Batgirl issue, but I suppose it's possible. You'd think the cops would mention he had a sidekick.

Avatar image for jojobinks70
jojobinks70

46

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By jojobinks70

Omg, and just HOW has Maggie Simpson stayed a baby for over 30 years?!? These are comics people,get over it.

Avatar image for omega_man_
Omega-Man

828

Forum Posts

17

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

Edited By Omega-Man

This comic was crap, to be honest I went in expecting how the gadgets came to be and how Bruce made the suit and became batman instead I didn't get that. the description of this comic was false saying this comic was to introduce us to how Bruce became Batman and it didn't deliver.

Avatar image for gambit1024
Gambit1024

10217

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

Edited By Gambit1024

So let me see if I got this right (and I know that I don't)

  • In this issue, Dick Grayson is 10... Or somewhere around there. I don't remember if they said it in the issue, but for some reason I remember vividly that Dick was 10 when he became Robin.
  • Jason looks older than Dick, so I don't have any qualms with that.
  • But Tim is in middle school. Meaning that he's 12-13 here. Meaning that if Dick is 10, Tim is older than him.
  • And if this is 5 years ago, all the Robins are still really really young.

Tell me I'm wrong, but this is what I walked away with after reading the issue.

Avatar image for madeinbangladesh
MadeinBangladesh

12494

Forum Posts

53

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 59

User Lists: 172

Edited By MadeinBangladesh

The Main story are good, but I LOVED the back up story

Avatar image for batwatch
BatWatch

5487

Forum Posts

274

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 238

User Lists: 1

Edited By BatWatch

@jojobinks70 said:

Omg, and just HOW has Maggie Simpson stayed a baby for over 30 years?!? These are comics people,get over it.

I think most people expect a little more from Batman than they do from the Simpsons in terms of trying to have a coherent universe. Sadly, The Simpsons probably makes more sense.@Omega-Man said:

This comic was crap, to be honest I went in expecting how the gadgets came to be and how Bruce made the suit and became batman instead I didn't get that. the description of this comic was false saying this comic was to introduce us to how Bruce became Batman and it didn't deliver.

You are right in that it did not deliver on that promise, but the story is still very good. It did show him developing some equipment.

@Gambit1024 said:

So let me see if I got this right (and I know that I don't)

  • In this issue, Dick Grayson is 10... Or somewhere around there. I don't remember if they said it in the issue, but for some reason I remember vividly that Dick was 10 when he became Robin.
  • Jason looks older than Dick, so I don't have any qualms with that.
  • But Tim is in middle school. Meaning that he's 12-13 here. Meaning that if Dick is 10, Tim is older than him.
  • And if this is 5 years ago, all the Robins are still really really young.

Tell me I'm wrong, but this is what I walked away with after reading the issue.

I believe different ages were given at different points in the old DCU regarding Dick's age when he became Robin. I believe Batman: Year Three had him more like age twelve. Regardless, all that continuity is gone now. Grayson looked about fifteen in this issue.

Jason looked about the same age as Dick which definitely does not fit with the old DCU.

Tim was in middle school, but you are trying to apply the old DCU to the NDCU.

Yep, Grayson might be twenty-one at the oldest, but even that is unlikely.

I loved the issue, but I hate the five year window. It is stupid, and I am hoping DC will realize that soon.

Avatar image for zombiemonkey72
zombiemonkey72

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By zombiemonkey72

I tend to recalibrate time references in comics or ignore them all together. Too often time references seem to be set to serve a story line or a writer's run. Errors like these seem to crop up when writers are locked into awkward editorial mandates, like saying the lead character must remain 28. Or lazy writers and editors not thinking things through. If you're going to be specific about histories, powers, science, etc. get it right, don't do it half way.

Avatar image for gambit1024
Gambit1024

10217

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

Edited By Gambit1024

@PsychoKnights: That's probably where I heard that he was ten when he first started. Just curious, but how much older is Dick supposed to be than Jason in the old continuity? And in the new continuity, did they ever say straight up that Dick is 21?

Avatar image for rayegunn
RayeGunn

96

Forum Posts

966

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By RayeGunn

@Gambit1024 said:

@PsychoKnights: That's probably where I heard that he was ten when he first started. Just curious, but how much older is Dick supposed to be than Jason in the old continuity? And in the new continuity, did they ever say straight up that Dick is 21?

They haven't given a specific age as far as I'm aware (though I may be forgetting it) but he is an adult. He has his own apartment and such. If he was 10 in the 0 issue, that would not have been possible, or at least highly unrealistic. People also seem to be forgetting that Batman is a 7 year window, it's Superman and Justice League that's a 5 year window. Still not long enough imo, but... not *quite* as bad. So if he's 21ish now, he was about 14-15 here, with Jason being 16-17, and Tim being 12-13 and that would seem to fit the art.

Avatar image for gambit1024
Gambit1024

10217

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

Edited By Gambit1024

@RayeGunn: Now I'm more confused, lol. Let me see if I get this (I know I probably don't).

  • Bruce has been Batman for 7 years.
  • Dick became Robin in year 2.
  • The Justice League formed 5 years ago.
  • Dick Became Robin 5 years ago.
  • Batman was in the Justice League on his second year of existence.
Avatar image for rayegunn
RayeGunn

96

Forum Posts

966

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By RayeGunn

@Gambit1024: Basically, yeah. While Superman was the first to be called a 'superhero' and the Justice League was created during his first year about 5 years ago, Batman was active for 2 years prior to that, but more of an urban legend vigilante, the first year not in costume or anything, as we've just seen in the 0 issue. I don't know precisely when each of the Robins adopted the title during that time, and frankly I'm not sure it matters much. the 0 issue of Batman seems to indicate Dick was made Robin 5 years ago, after that...*shrugs* as long as they go in order, good enough for me.

Just to clarify, the 5 year window only affects Superman and the Justice League, and things related to them. As seen in Demon Knights, All-Star Western and Stormwatch, there were superpowered people for much, much longer, they just operated in secret and/or weren't called 'superheroes'. Kinda splitting hairs, I know, but... So not every character has to have their history fit in the 5 year window if it's conceivable they could have been operating in secret, or could be written off as tall tales and myth as in Demon Knights

I still think a larger window would have been better, (to fit in Damian better, if nothing else) but it's not quite as restrictive as some people make out, though yeah it is a stretch to believe that there have been super powered people for hundreds of years but the general populace just failed to notice... but, that's the official story.

Avatar image for edimasta
Edimasta

22

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Edimasta

@Omega-Man said:

This comic was crap, to be honest I went in expecting how the gadgets came to be and how Bruce made the suit and became batman instead I didn't get that. the description of this comic was false saying this comic was to introduce us to how Bruce became Batman and it didn't deliver.

Exactly what I thought!

Avatar image for omega_man_
Omega-Man

828

Forum Posts

17

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

Edited By Omega-Man

@PsychoKnights: Really with the returning timer boomerang? it didn't show how he made it or what it's use is. Or where Bruce got that fancy bike did he make it or was it something Wayne Enterprises had? Also I hate the fact that Bruce is trying to be a crime fighter without the costume sure they did that in year one but he only did it once because he nearly got killed as he didn't strike fear in them. This Bruce is pretty much running around normally without a suit to scare people and is using high tech weapons. what is the point of him being Batman if he was fine running around without wearing a mask or using the cave under the manor? It was clear that it wasn't Bruce's first night out fighting crime.....

Really I have to say this, sorry DC I'm a massive Batman fan and I hate this take on the character. I read this book thanks to a friend and you are not getting my money for a not so good origin. If anything I can't wait till Trinity war comes along and I hope it erases some of the developments (Batman #0) but I doubt it since you are pulling a 90s zero hour with the issue 0's and trinity war is just Zero Hour all over again.

Avatar image for mucklefluga
Mucklefluga

2653

Forum Posts

3678

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 5

Edited By Mucklefluga

@TheMess1428: Damian aged faster in the "test tube"

Avatar image for batwatch
BatWatch

5487

Forum Posts

274

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 238

User Lists: 1

Edited By BatWatch

@Gambit1024 said:

@PsychoKnights: That's probably where I heard that he was ten when he first started. Just curious, but how much older is Dick supposed to be than Jason in the old continuity? And in the new continuity, did they ever say straight up that Dick is 21?

As far as I know, they have not given any definite ages on any characters post-Flashpoint. I'm not even sure of any of the characters' ages pre-Flashpoint except for Tim Drake who was seventeen. I'm just guessing at their current ages.

It is difficult to determine the age difference between Dick and Jason in the old continuity, but Jason took on the role of Robin at I'm guessing about age fourteen, and Dick had already dropped out of college and was living independently while leading the Titans. That would mean he would have to be at least eighteen and probably significantly older. If I had to take a guess, I'd guess Dick was twenty-one at the time. That would make Dick seven years older than Jason. Jason, I think, was dead for six months before getting resurrected, so...still about six years age difference between them. I would guess that Dick was about twenty-five and Jason was about nineteen at the end of the old DCU. All just educated speculation of course.

Avatar image for batwatch
BatWatch

5487

Forum Posts

274

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 238

User Lists: 1

Edited By BatWatch

@RayeGunn said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@PsychoKnights: That's probably where I heard that he was ten when he first started. Just curious, but how much older is Dick supposed to be than Jason in the old continuity? And in the new continuity, did they ever say straight up that Dick is 21?

They haven't given a specific age as far as I'm aware (though I may be forgetting it) but he is an adult. He has his own apartment and such. If he was 10 in the 0 issue, that would not have been possible, or at least highly unrealistic. People also seem to be forgetting that Batman is a 7 year window, it's Superman and Justice League that's a 5 year window. Still not long enough imo, but... not *quite* as bad. So if he's 21ish now, he was about 14-15 here, with Jason being 16-17, and Tim being 12-13 and that would seem to fit the art.

Batman operated solo for two years in the DCNU. This has been talked about a lot, but the first time I saw it confirmed was in this issue which clearly shows that none of the Robins had yet become Robin, and it was five years in the past.

Avatar image for superbrosky
superbrosky

2

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By superbrosky

in my opinion batman has become a abattoir

Avatar image for jrock85
jrock85

2882

Forum Posts

2684

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Edited By jrock85

This timeline just gets more and more ridiculous.

Avatar image for apis
Apis

109

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

Edited By Apis

If their going to make Dick, Jason and Tim this close in age Bruce should manage them as a crime-fighting boy band.

Avatar image for space_captain_ulyverse
Space_Captain_Ulyverse

35

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@feebadger said:

Not sure how i feel about this retcon. Partly feels made up as it goes along and partly really exciting. The New 52 has confused me. Loving it and hating it in equal measures.

Avatar image for jontaru
Jontaru

6

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0