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Should The Black Panther and Storm Marriage Have Been Annulled?

We analyze what was wrong with the marriage of these two characters as well as the way it all ended.

A comic event can make drastic changes to the status-quo very quickly. We've seen this happen countless times. It's no question that writers often use events to propel their own agendas and get things to change fast, rather than having to develop a huge story to evoke those changes.

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In a single issue characters can die, they can become possessed, they can switch alliances, their marriages can fall apart -- all in the blink of an eye; or in the case of Marvel's AVENGERS VS. X-MEN event, all in one issue. It's hard to believe that a marriage and relationship that took writer Reginald Hudlin years to build could all be torn down in literally one panel like the marriage of Storm and T'Challa was in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #9. If you haven't read the issue yet then, spoiler alert, the two are no longer married thanks to the High Priest of Wakanda's (T'Challa) annulment of their marriage. In fact, we mentioned the dissolution of their marriage in a recent article, but we didn't get into a whole lot of depth, which is why we're talking about it now.

== TEASER ==
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Regardless of how you felt about these two characters while they were married, you might agree that the way their marriage ended was rather bizarre. Aside from the fact that the whole scene was really disheartening and humiliating for Storm's character, it also made T'Challa look like a complete jerk; particularly since he blamed his now ex-wife for something he knew was coming (the destruction of Wakanda). But aside from the fact that both these characters looked bad, the way the creative team approached the dissolution of their marriage is a good example of the poor treatment of marriages in comic books.

Before we get into all of that, let's take a step back to analyze what really happened. Before the release of AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #9, Black Panther appeared in Jonathan Hickman's FANTASTIC Four #608. In this issue, T'Challa travels to Necropolis with Reed Richards and is met by a spirit of the Panther God, the same entity that bestowed the duties and responsibilities of the Black Panther onto T'Challa and then later, to his sister Shuri. There is a scene about halfway through the issue where we see the Panther God touch T'Challa's head; as though he is enlightening him and showing him a vision. In this vision, (which is illustrated on the following page in the issue) T'Challa sees a "great fire in the sky," (the Phoenix Force) and is told that "that fire will bring a great flood [to Wakanda]." T'Challa witnessed the coming destruction of Wakanda brought on by the Phoenix Force -- so when it actually happens in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN, why did it come as such a surprise to him? And why didn't T'Challa tell Storm about the vision? I feel like a flood is something that the Goddess of Weather could do something to help control -- even stop. Rather than approaching his wife, T'Challa dissolves their marriage acting as if it never happened: embarrassing her and treating it as though she is to blame for Wakanda's destruction. Now, that's not exactly the way two married people act, even in a crisis; and it's a poor reflection of married couples in comic books. When two married people disagree, they normally have enough respect for one another to talk things through. You can't just up and divorce someone because you feel like it. The scene in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #9 was a great disservice to both characters. It made T'Challa appear too arrogant for his own good, and it made Storm look weak and unimportant. T'Challa essentially placed the blame on Ororo for the destruction of Wakanda when he knew it was coming all along (refer to the vision in FANTASTIC FOUR #608). This entire scene didn't really make sense considering T'Challa knew the destruction was coming, and Storm did not. Also, he really took the time to dissolve their marriage after Wakanda had been completely leveled? Why was that even a priority under those circumstances?

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Yet, some would say the annullment of Storm and T'Challa's marriage is something they saw coming. Prior to the AVENGERS VS X-MEN event, Storm and T'Challa have been living relatively separate lives. While he took over as the "Black Panther: Man Without Fear" in Hells Kitchen (while Daredevil trekked 'cross country to try to figure things out), Storm was playing on Utopia with the X-Men, solving mutant and X-Men problems. The two would occasionally "Skype" as we witnessed on panel, but for the most part, T'Challa would ask that Ororo stay away. He often acted like he did not want her around, at least that's the way it's been in the last year or so of his appearances. Yet, it wasn't always this way. There was a time where these two would work together; when they had a respectful relationship.

Storm 6-issue series
Storm 6-issue series

Prior to their marriage issue, you might recall seeing a six-issue miniseries titled STORM that focused on the first meeting and the relationship between Black Panther and Storm. It was the story of how these two met and fell in love as children, and it outlined a very young, timid Ororo who was unsure of herself, and a somewhat overconfident T'Challa who had embarked on his "walkabout," and was traveling throughout Africa. It was as much a story about T'Challa's journey to become a warrior and Ororo's understanding of her own power as it was about the two of these characters falling in love. There were some great moments in this limited series, as well as some scenes that foretold of the way T'Challa would speak to Ororo in AVX #9 (his constantly putting her in her place). And while this series may have been well intentioned, it wasn't the best example of a solid foundation for their relationship.

Fantastic Four #547
Fantastic Four #547

A better example of their interactions and the way they could work well together was seen when the two appeared in FANTASTIC FOUR alongside the Thing and Johnny Storm. The run where these two characters take over for Sue and Reed while they go on their "second honeymoon" is a fantastic example of how it is possible to write these two characters well and depict them working together. Late writer Dwayne McDuffie stressed mutual respect between these two characters in his series; and it was obvious. He proved that while these two are very different, they can still be written in a way that demonstrates that they have respect for one another.

What is frustrating isn't just the way their marriage ended (which was pretty cold, mind you), but also the events that led up to the end of the only black marriage in Marvel comics. These two could have had a great marriage. They could have worked together (as we saw in FANTASTIC FOUR) and this event could have been used as a hurtle they would overcome together in order to build a stronger relationship as well as a stronger Wakanda. It's enough that there aren't a whole lot of black heroes in comics -- there aren't very many marriages in comics period. This marriage had the potential to succeed and to be strong. It had the potential to flourish and be interesting. It could have been a great example, but in the end it all fell flat. The real slap in the face is in the way it ended. As though the last six years never even happened. Now, it's not that I was a huge fan of these two together, I'm just saying I could have been if their marriage and their characters were treated differently. Instead, it feels like Marvel just didn't know what to do with Black Panther and Storm. What do you think?

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Jdggant

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Hold up don't start talking about the princess and the frog ! That was a good movie and I would love to see a Broadway Musical for it! And yes I am mad that storm and BP divorced I mean these two were just MENT to be ! TBH I could imagine storm not being a queen ! But anyways she still is a Kenyan princess so that tiara still sits nice and firm in her beautiful white hair

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Jdggant

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TBH iIMO I believe that marvel missed a great opportunity to unite a lot of characters! Like Storm and Black Panther are King and Queen of one of the richest and most powerful nations and that's just unheard of and never a thought to a lot of people when it comes to the continent of Africa. I would love to see these to remarry and have a couple kids and most likely one will have storms powers because hers has been traced down through her family roots but I would love to see storm and BP just take over Africa with oppisition from the avengers because tony stark can't keep his bossy arrogant nossey self away and also a support from other characters such as reed and sue of the F4 (if anything these 4 need a couples night out) and also support from other black characters such as Brother VooDoo Luke cage Spectrum and falcon! Although I must add that nick furry would most likely say it's a good thing what's they're trying to do but also he would try to stay out of it. Same with war machine maybe he would try to convince tony stark but you know how he is. I know this all may sound absurd but it's just an idea! Who knows what great things we could see out of that! Just one family trying to save their fellow man ! Plus storm is a Kenyan princess so at least we know that country would really try to fight back if anything went wrong ! Maybe if storm was mistress of the Xman for awhile and moving them to wakanda so she could stay with her husband ( and maybe children or at least a puppy named toto or Jarvis) but yeah that's just my thoughts

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kaine_17

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Edited By kaine_17

I feek bad they broke up. Especially since kymera came from the future. And no one remembers azeri from the next avenger movie. I do blame storm, since black panther was in the right of the conflict. He shouldve told storm of his vision but still why not side with your HUSBAND, the person you are supposed to spend the rest of your life with. You could say the same, BP could have been on storms side but whi was on the right side, charles even mentioned storm chose the wrong side. I mean i didnt read when they got married

But it kind of made it look like they are mocking the true stereo type of african american ( even thoo they are native africans). It would be nice to see them prosper. Jay z and beyonce are doing it. I hear the talk of their divorce is just a publicity stunt. And how can you change or update characters bios because it says BPs skin is black, noones skin is black. Not even wesley snipes. Lol

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DarrinJihadShahid

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Hudlin Black Panther started me back reading comics. The marriage was one of the best ideas the a Marvel writer has come up with. I agree with this article, the way it ended totally sucked. Marvel threw away a chance at unlimited interesting storylines.

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soniamoore370

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I was hurt when my man left last winter and through a family member they told me they had help from www.prophetofgoddess.com for their love problems. I had the love spell and within a few days he came back to me and he calls me constantly throughout the day. I’m really pleased with the Prophet for his support, spells and consultations that they gave me. Contact him through spells@prophetofgoddess.com if you need any spiritual support as he is the only tested and trusted spell caster that restored my happiness.

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@moneyspider1 said:

I'd be happy if Storm and the Black Panther started dating again for a few years, got re-married and then and started making babies Wakandan-style (whatever that means). Yes please.

hmmm... i think most people would not like them together again.

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moneyspider1

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Edited By moneyspider1

I'd be happy if Storm and the Black Panther started dating again for a few years, got re-married and then and started making babies Wakandan-style (whatever that means). Yes please.

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AgeofHurricane

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Edited By AgeofHurricane

Lol.

F*ck staying good friends with this guy, i'm just waiting for when Cable's X-Force and Psylocke's X-Force meet in the near future so that Storm can reconcile with FORGE.

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PassionFlower

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Edited By PassionFlower

@jhazzroucher said:

Perhaps they'll apologize with each other and remain good friends.

And that would make me happy and however they chose to move on with their lives I would be more than cool with...

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

Perhaps they'll apologize with each other and remain good friends.

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HopesummersFORtheFUTURE

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@ceniza said:

I know what is this about. The phoenix force comes every few years to wreck some Marvel's Universe marriages.

lol like scott and jeans or storm and black panther

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PassionFlower

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Edited By PassionFlower

I hope at least they end the animosity and she can stop running from the police. If nothing else they can be good friends.

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@PassionFlower said:

@Umbraa said:

@PassionFlower said:

At some point and time I would hope--and I don't think it asking for too much--for them to have a good face-to-face on panel adult conversation.

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Oh my goodness ask and ye shall receive. I'm so pleased. This is healthy. Work pass the bitterness and anger to a friendship if nothing else.

i wonder how will this story go.

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PassionFlower

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Edited By PassionFlower

@Umbraa said:

@PassionFlower said:

At some point and time I would hope--and I don't think it asking for too much--for them to have a good face-to-face on panel adult conversation.

No Caption Provided

Oh my goodness ask and ye shall receive. I'm so pleased. This is healthy. Work pass the bitterness and anger to a friendship if nothing else.

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Umbraa

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Edited By Umbraa

@PassionFlower said:

At some point and time I would hope--and I don't think it asking for too much--for them to have a good face-to-face on panel adult conversation.

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PassionFlower

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Edited By PassionFlower

At some point and time I would hope--and I don't think it asking for too much--for them to have a good face-to-face on panel adult conversation.

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HopesummersFORtheFUTURE

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i think they might get an annulment

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AgeofHurricane

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Edited By AgeofHurricane

@Storm Calling: lol. It actually is funny.

Cyclops was right.

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Edited By Storm Calling

AVX #12 just proved that Scott was right about Hope, Tony Stark himself ended up pointing out that everyone just needed a little faith in her considering there was nothing that would have been able to contain or stop the Phoenix in the first place besides her. lol

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@Eden_Azari_El: huh?

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Edited By Eden_Azari_El

LORD, make me an instrument of Your peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love.

Where there is injury, pardon;

where there is doubt, faith;

where there is despair, hope;

where there is darkness, light;

and where there is sadness, joy.

DIVINE MASTER, grant that I may not so much seek to be

consoled as to console;

to be understood as to understand;

to be loved as to love; for it is in giving that we receive;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@moneyspider1 said:

@jazzroucher: Agreed, and only Marvel writers and editors are to blame for the characterization of both characters. If the writing's bad, the characters cannot be blamed, since they do not write themselves. Fix the writing and you fix the problems.

Yost should have written AvX

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moneyspider1

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Edited By moneyspider1

@jazzroucher: Agreed, and only Marvel writers and editors are to blame for the characterization of both characters. If the writing's bad, the characters cannot be blamed, since they do not write themselves. Fix the writing and you fix the problems.

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@moneyspider1 said:

@Dark Magician: Nope. Storm does not suck. The writing of Storm is terrible, which is really the problem here.

not just her but both of them were written horribly.

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moneyspider1

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Edited By moneyspider1

@Dark Magician: Nope. Storm does not suck. The writing of Storm is terrible, which is really the problem here.

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WARLOCK2792

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Edited By WARLOCK2792

@Dark_Magician said:

Storm sucks. Black Panther deserves better.

.............dying alone?

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Dark_Magician

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Edited By Dark_Magician

Storm sucks. Black Panther deserves better.

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Storm Calling

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Edited By Storm Calling

@Umbraa said:

It was on it's way to earth to WIPE OUT everything, it was wiping out things on it's way to earth. We know this, that is part of the premise in the title. I'm not talking conjecture, but what has occurred.

It is talking conjecture to assume that it would have wiped out everything when it came to earth. So case in point: it is of both you're and the Avengers' opinion that it would have wiped out Earth on the fact that it was destroying everything else in it's path while it was on it's way there.

The facts that you are obviously overlooking is that Hope had summoned the Phoenix there with her flare up. She basically sent out a message that she was ready for it to come to her. Unit had indicated through his vast knowledge of the cosmos that the Phoenix could bring both destruction and life. We have witnessed this through both Jean Grey and Rachel. So there are also facts that counteract the ones you are using against the Phoenix destroying everything. Was it not Jean that contained the power of the M'Kraan crystal and saved all of the Universe? And didn't Rachel use the Phoenix's power to satiate Galactus when he came looking for a snack? The Phoenix has both spared and destroyed in equal proportions.

Utopia not being a sovereign nation is completely irrelevant considering the X-men(Storm included) had assumed at that point that it had sovereignty. His rights certainly weren't read to him when Captain America arrived, so you still have no argument about them being wrong in boguarding their way into Utopia to retrieve an innocent child. Laws don't always make what's happening in a situation right. An innocent man being sentenced to life in prison doesn't make the law right, that just makes it "ok" for them to do it.

The X-men haven't done anything wrong that was outside of the Phoenix's influence, which was caused by the war that Avengers originally started in the first place by trying to take Hope off of Utopia. Cyclops already had a plan, and Captain and Tony Stark had significantly less knowledge about the Phoenix. So why would Scott just send her off to be tested like a guinea pig when he already knew what it was about?

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

I don't think BP would make the annulment decision alone.

He's made every other decision regarding their marriage "ALONE", why should this be any different?

because he didn't decide the marriage alone.

She was surprised by the annulment so I think he did make that decision alone.

THat's why i think it was wrong. I don't think BP would make the decision alone because he didn't decide the marriage alone

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THUNDERBOLT30

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Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

I don't think BP would make the annulment decision alone.

He's made every other decision regarding their marriage "ALONE", why should this be any different?

because he didn't decide the marriage alone.

She was surprised by the annulment so I think he did make that decision alone.

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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

I don't think BP would make the annulment decision alone.

He's made every other decision regarding their marriage "ALONE", why should this be any different?

because he didn't decide the marriage alone.

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THUNDERBOLT30

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Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

@White Mage said:

@Umbraa said:

@White Mage said:

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

First, we are talking about AvX. Sure the Avengers made mistakes...they have...but the X-men have TOTALLY F*cked up. They only went to battle with the cosmic entity because the X-men would not listen...they HAVE FACED similarly powerful ones before... Scott Summers was acting like a unhinged idiot and a lack of leadership on the X-men part. We saw leadership from others Avengers, pushing back on certain things, for example Beast and T'challa. Fact is simple, the X-men would not have been able to do ANYTHING EITHER. Hope was NOT ready to control the PF so Scott's little project FAILED. These are FACTS. It was on a path to destroy earth and Scott could only think of his misguided cause instead of the world, he had tunnel vision. The end result is not following Xavier's dream, a lack of a backbone, lack of standards and tenants that he should have stood by. If he DID they could have possibly worked something out. They have the smartest people in the MU, forced not to focus on a the problem and solution but a conflict--Instead he escalated the situation. Hindsight is 20/20, the mistake was already made. Period. I can't believe you guys are defending this crappy showing of her as a weak leader. It's astonishing.

This entire argument is negated by the simple fact that Rachel Grey exists. Jean Grey struggled too....and overcame. Hell, most of the bigger crimes committed by Jeanix weren't even Jean's. They were Phoenix's crimes committed while using a COPY of Jean's body. I can't help but recognize that none of the mutants who inherited a FRACTION of the Phoenix Force were anywhere near being an Omega-level mutant......which DOES matter when hosting the Phoenix. Their bodies/minds weren't even designed to wield that much power (Endsong anyone?). Rachel, Iceman, and even Storm would've been better candidates if THAT'S what she was looking for. Phoenix clearly got off from the emotional issues that were going on with each of the P5, thus, why she stuck with THOSE hosts...after the Avengers f*cked up that is. Hope is clearly an Omega-class mutant, and she was manifesting signs of the Phoenix before Phoenix even came to earth......DO NOT tell me that the X-Men couldnt've done anything when Iron Man hooked up Scarlet-Heifer-Witch's PIS'd body to a PROBABILITY machine, which SHOWED HOPE WAS THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR IN BEATING THE P5. Wolverine, Captain, T'Challa, and friends, were completely wrong in their approach. And had the Avengers listened to Storm while she TRIED to be diplomatic in the first damn place, instead of invading another country for the purpose of kidnapping a young mutant girl who T'CHALLA SAID could blow up worlds, then none of THIS SH*T would've even happened. NONE of it. These geniuses openly admit that Hope is THAT powerful, and then they try to kidnap her, while relying on SCARLET WITCH in order to be a counter plan.....when she was clearly as rusty as that outfit she was wearing when she failed against M.O.D.O.K.

I'm a Black Panther fan...still...I like the dude. But there's no way in hell the Avengers are escaping blame on this clusterf*ck...That ish only works for Marvel editors. It don't work with me

Game...set...and match. The thread can now be shut down lol. And the bold had my face like this....

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Umbraa

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Edited By Umbraa

@White Mage said:

@Umbraa said:

@White Mage said:

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

First, we are talking about AvX. Sure the Avengers made mistakes...they have...but the X-men have TOTALLY F*cked up. They only went to battle with the cosmic entity because the X-men would not listen...they HAVE FACED similarly powerful ones before... Scott Summers was acting like a unhinged idiot and a lack of leadership on the X-men part. We saw leadership from others Avengers, pushing back on certain things, for example Beast and T'challa. Fact is simple, the X-men would not have been able to do ANYTHING EITHER. Hope was NOT ready to control the PF so Scott's little project FAILED. These are FACTS. It was on a path to destroy earth and Scott could only think of his misguided cause instead of the world, he had tunnel vision. The end result is not following Xavier's dream, a lack of a backbone, lack of standards and tenants that he should have stood by. If he DID they could have possibly worked something out. They have the smartest people in the MU, forced not to focus on a the problem and solution but a conflict--Instead he escalated the situation. Hindsight is 20/20, the mistake was already made. Period. I can't believe you guys are defending this crappy showing of her as a weak leader. It's astonishing.

This entire argument is negated by the simple fact that Rachel Grey exists. Jean Grey struggled too....and overcame. Hell, most of the bigger crimes committed by Jeanix weren't even Jean's. They were Phoenix's crimes committed while using a COPY of Jean's body. I can't help but recognize that none of the mutants who inherited a FRACTION of the Phoenix Force were anywhere near being an Omega-level mutant......which DOES matter when hosting the Phoenix. Their bodies/minds weren't even designed to wield that much power (Endsong anyone?). Rachel, Iceman, and even Storm would've been better candidates if THAT'S what she was looking for. Phoenix clearly got off from the emotional issues that were going on with each of the P5, thus, why she stuck with THOSE hosts...after the Avengers f*cked up that is. Hope is clearly an Omega-class mutant, and she was manifesting signs of the Phoenix before Phoenix even came to earth......DO NOT tell me that the X-Men couldnt've done anything when Iron Man hooked up Scarlet-Heifer-Witch's PIS'd body to a PROBABILITY machine, which SHOWED HOPE WAS THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR IN BEATING THE P5. Wolverine, Captain, T'Challa, and friends, were completely wrong in their approach. And had the Avengers listened to Storm while she TRIED to be diplomatic in the first damn place, instead of invading another country for the purpose of kidnapping a young mutant girl who T'CHALLA SAID could blow up worlds, then none of THIS SH*T would've even happened. NONE of it. These geniuses openly admit that Hope is THAT powerful, and then they try to kidnap her, while relying on SCARLET WITCH in order to be a counter plan.....when she was clearly as rusty as that outfit she was wearing when she failed against M.O.D.O.K.

I'm a Black Panther fan...still...I like the dude. But there's no way in hell the Avengers are escaping blame on this clusterf*ck...That ish only works for Marvel editors. It don't work with me

Sorry, your facts are WRONG. Hope isn't Jean or Rachel. Two powerful telepaths...Jean is dead, because of the Phoenix. These are the FACTS. It was on it's way to earth to WIPE OUT everything, it was wiping out things on it's way to earth. We know this, that is part of the premise in the title. I'm not talking conjecture, but what has occurred. Nova SAW the acts of the Phoenix out of control. We see how Kun-Lun connect to the Phoenix and a similar situation, that NEED TRAINING FROM KUN-LUN to stop it! THESE THINGS happened Mage. Yes, Hope was the only person who could beat them...AND YOU JUST MADE MY POINT! If Scott *WORKED* with Cap, then she could have got the training she needed FROM Ironfist and Kun-Lun to defeat and control the phoenix. No T'challa approach was NOT wrong at all! He was the one CLEARLY SAYING that it can NOT be solved by simply technology--but that mystic and technology in tandem would be needed...ooops!

Again, Utopia is NOT a country. The fact that you guys keep saying is kind of delusional, especially sense even MARVEL does not agree with that assessment. It's a based located in U.S territory period. A base with weapons of mass destruction off the coast of San Fran! Someone from Marvel even commented that it's not a nation yesterday, stating that it's was located in U.S territory. They did not try to kidnap, since they had a right to lawfully remove a US citizen who also happens to be a minor btw, from child endangerment. Period. Cap was attacked, period. Scott is wrong period and So are the X-men. NO matter how you try to spin it...look at what is occurring now and they were wrong.

Had Scott listen, had the other X-men showed ANY leadership at all, instead of being blind followers, Hope would have REALLY got the training she needed to face the threat! Instead we see Scott mindlessly beating her up. Sorry but his training failed. He isn't even on the level of the folks and resources he could have used to get her train correctly.

You can blame who you like, but trying to act like Storm wasn't shown as being a follower, weak and mindless in leadership, a evelyn lozada of the Marvel Universe (I'm not defending crappy writing), where no x-men actually step up and showed leadership until it was too late, while a young child like Hope saw it before all of them did. Where the founder of the X-men is killed. Where near genocide was nearly committed against a people, etc...nah brag it doesn't work how you want it. The Avengers are not blameless, but they are not the biggest f*ck ups...that title belongs to the X-men and it has played out that way sorry.

And after being attacked by her, by her siding with others, yes he had every right in the world for annulment of the marriage.

and the editors > then you. Period. I don't always agree with everything, but what they say goes. This is their sand box, no matter how much you don't like it.

It was an Asteroid, but now it's an island, one within U.S territorial waters and close enough to San Francisco that everybody living on it would go there for lunch every day (with no manner of immigration or customs.) That's U.S. territory. ---Tom Brevoort

All you have to do is use common sense here guys. Utopia is not a sovereign nation, period. It does not have it. You cannot just declare it, it doesn't matter what Scott says in this matter. Utopia simply is not a country. So there was NO invasion, and Cap had every lawful right to go there. He tried to talk to Scott and Scott attacked him. That is what occurred. Yes they were going to take her, but they had every lawful right...as Hope is a minor and U.S citizen. Period. If Scott had any real diplomatic skills, had the X-men had other strong leadership--none of this would have occurred. The COULD HAVE figured it out together! Scott didn't not want to...the point is they NEEDED TO WORK TOGETHER!

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@jhazzroucher said:

@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

I don't think BP would make the annulment decision alone.

He's made every other decision regarding their marriage "ALONE", why should this be any different?

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@Umbraa said:

@White Mage said:

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

First, we are talking about AvX. Sure the Avengers made mistakes...they have...but the X-men have TOTALLY F*cked up. They only went to battle with the cosmic entity because the X-men would not listen...they HAVE FACED similarly powerful ones before... Scott Summers was acting like a unhinged idiot and a lack of leadership on the X-men part. We saw leadership from others Avengers, pushing back on certain things, for example Beast and T'challa. Fact is simple, the X-men would not have been able to do ANYTHING EITHER. Hope was NOT ready to control the PF so Scott's little project FAILED. These are FACTS. It was on a path to destroy earth and Scott could only think of his misguided cause instead of the world, he had tunnel vision. The end result is not following Xavier's dream, a lack of a backbone, lack of standards and tenants that he should have stood by. If he DID they could have possibly worked something out. They have the smartest people in the MU, forced not to focus on a the problem and solution but a conflict--Instead he escalated the situation. Hindsight is 20/20, the mistake was already made. Period. I can't believe you guys are defending this crappy showing of her as a weak leader. It's astonishing.

This entire argument is negated by the simple fact that Rachel Grey exists. Jean Grey struggled too....and overcame. Hell, most of the bigger crimes committed by Jeanix weren't even Jean's. They were Phoenix's crimes committed while using a COPY of Jean's body. I can't help but recognize that none of the mutants who inherited a FRACTION of the Phoenix Force were anywhere near being an Omega-level mutant......which DOES matter when hosting the Phoenix. Their bodies/minds weren't even designed to wield that much power (Endsong anyone?). Rachel, Iceman, and even Storm would've been better candidates if THAT'S what she was looking for. Phoenix clearly got off from the emotional issues that were going on with each of the P5, thus, why she stuck with THOSE hosts...after the Avengers f*cked up that is. Hope is clearly an Omega-class mutant, and she was manifesting signs of the Phoenix before Phoenix even came to earth......DO NOT tell me that the X-Men couldnt've done anything when Iron Man hooked up Scarlet-Heifer-Witch's PIS'd body to a PROBABILITY machine, which SHOWED HOPE WAS THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR IN BEATING THE P5. Wolverine, Captain, T'Challa, and friends, were completely wrong in their approach. And had the Avengers listened to Storm while she TRIED to be diplomatic in the first damn place, instead of invading another country for the purpose of kidnapping a young mutant girl who T'CHALLA SAID could blow up worlds, then none of THIS SH*T would've even happened. NONE of it. These geniuses openly admit that Hope is THAT powerful, and then they try to kidnap her, while relying on SCARLET WITCH in order to be a counter plan.....when she was clearly as rusty as that outfit she was wearing when she failed against M.O.D.O.K.

I'm a Black Panther fan...still...I like the dude. But there's no way in hell the Avengers are escaping blame on this clusterf*ck...That ish only works for Marvel editors. It don't work with me

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@White Mage said:

@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

I don't think BP would make the annulment decision alone.

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@jhazzroucher said:

We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

I call bull

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We shouldn't blame Storm and Black Panther. They were both not written in character.

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@Umbraa said:

@White Mage said:

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

First, we are talking about AvX. Sure the Avengers made mistakes...they have...but the X-men have TOTALLY F*cked up. They only went to battle with the cosmic entity because the X-men would not listen...they HAVE FACED similarly powerful ones before... Scott Summers was acting like a unhinged idiot and a lack of leadership on the X-men part. We saw leadership from others Avengers, pushing back on certain things, for example Beast and T'challa. Fact is simple, the X-men would not have been able to do ANYTHING EITHER. Hope was NOT ready to control the PF so Scott's little project FAILED. These are FACTS. It was on a path to destroy earth and Scott could only think of his misguided cause instead of the world, he had tunnel vision. The end result is not following Xavier's dream, a lack of a backbone, lack of standards and tenants that he should have stood by. If he DID they could have possibly worked something out. They have the smartest people in the MU, forced not to focus on a the problem and solution but a conflict--Instead he escalated the situation. Hindsight is 20/20, the mistake was already made. Period. I can't believe you guys are defending this crappy showing of her as a weak leader. It's astonishing.

Second, being that Storm is one of the most powerful mutants on the planet, T'challa would be a FOOL not to have something in a case she was possessed or mind controlled. Imagine the havoc she could cause if that occurred...and that is something that is VERY POSSIBLE! He has stuff solely designed for EVERYONE. If he has stuff for Galactus, you have to be a crazy not to think he would not have stuff for others...better to be ready then not. period. The protocol doesn't even HARM HER AT ALL. It controls the environment and prevents her or anyone from using her powers---against HIM and Wakanda.

I think you should stop right there.

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@White Mage said:

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

First, we are talking about AvX. Sure the Avengers made mistakes...they have...but the X-men have TOTALLY F*cked up. They only went to battle with the cosmic entity because the X-men would not listen...they HAVE FACED similarly powerful ones before... Scott Summers was acting like a unhinged idiot and a lack of leadership on the X-men part. We saw leadership from others Avengers, pushing back on certain things, for example Beast and T'challa. Fact is simple, the X-men would not have been able to do ANYTHING EITHER. Hope was NOT ready to control the PF so Scott's little project FAILED. These are FACTS. It was on a path to destroy earth and Scott could only think of his misguided cause instead of the world, he had tunnel vision. The end result is not following Xavier's dream, a lack of a backbone, lack of standards and tenants that he should have stood by. If he DID they could have possibly worked something out. They have the smartest people in the MU, forced not to focus on a the problem and solution but a conflict--Instead he escalated the situation. Hindsight is 20/20, the mistake was already made. Period. I can't believe you guys are defending this crappy showing of her as a weak leader. It's astonishing.

Second, being that Storm is one of the most powerful mutants on the planet, T'challa would be a FOOL not to have something in a case she was possessed or mind controlled. Imagine the havoc she could cause if that occurred...and that is something that is VERY POSSIBLE! He has stuff solely designed for EVERYONE. If he has stuff for Galactus, you have to be a crazy not to think he would not have stuff for others...better to be ready then not. period. The protocol doesn't even HARM HER AT ALL. It controls the environment and prevents her or anyone from using her powers---against HIM and Wakanda.

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@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher said:

@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

For me I don't but I am happy to just see Storm at least, whether she's written poorly or not. But i'm happier if she's written well. : )

@jhazzroucher said:

@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

For me I don't but I am happy to just see Storm at least, whether she's written poorly or not. But i'm happier if she's written well. : )

I agree. Every writer does her differently and you just take the good with the bad and hope for the better.

that should be the spirit of everybody. : )

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@jhazzroucher said:

@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

For me I don't but I am happy to just see Storm at least, whether she's written poorly or not. But i'm happier if she's written well. : )

@jhazzroucher said:

@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

For me I don't but I am happy to just see Storm at least, whether she's written poorly or not. But i'm happier if she's written well. : )

I agree. Every writer does her differently and you just take the good with the bad and hope for the better.

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@PassionFlower said:

@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

For me I don't but I am happy to just see Storm at least, whether she's written poorly or not. But i'm happier if she's written well. : )

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@jhazzroucher: Lol, to me it's funny. I like sharing my opinion because it's ALL just opinions. if it's not fun it's not worth cuz it's just a comic book to me. I hate to blame the writing but honestly...I guess I do. I see both characters doing things that make no sense and reacting in ways that make even less. I can see Storm angry, hurt and enraged, I can see her slapping the fire out of him--but she is NOT going to be in the middle of the street throwing hands like some bar fight.

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Each time the Phoenix has been pacified, it's been dealing with a powerful host who was able to get it to see the error of its ways/fill it with human love and emotion. That's how Phoenix gets off.....So I love how the Avengers saw fit to try and "harm" her with technology, and thus, make her pissed off, while also making hosts out of everyone BUT the intended target.

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@Umbraa said:

Smh, when five of her teammates are possessed and one even ruined his country, and she attacked him...having counter-measures for her...is the smart thing. Just imagine the havoc she could cause Is she was mind controlled by some other mutant! Like Passion said, how can you get made at someone wearing body armor if you are shooting? If he used orbital lasers or the Prowers (which make sentinels look like a joke) I would agree...but she attacked and has been wrong the entire event...see AvX #11...look at what she supported!

Oh, we've seen what she supported....and AVX 11 is not an example of that. While we're blaming Storm for things she couldn't control, let's bring up Xavier/Onslaught/Legion, shall we? And we've also seen what the Avengers royally f*cked up. They went to battle with a cosmic entity that has absolutely no issue pwning Thor, and Iron Man went out of his way to treat the Phoenix as if she were Galactus (which was foolish), when the answer to all of this bullsh*t was clearly to let Hope get possessed in the first place. Phoenix is a cosmic entity that burns away universes and can sense all that is.......and they want to "Hide" Hope?

I'm not even going to argue whether or not it was "smart" for Black Panther to have counter measures against Storm...not yet anyway. I'm just glad that no one is still denying that his counter measures were designed SOLELY for her.

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@Storm Calling said:

@White Mage: I don't even need to respond because you basically said everything that I would have said and more. lol

Agreed lol. New dictionary definition of Desperation = Repeatedly trying to argue without logic; fabrication of facts to support repetitive illogical explanations; simply ignore the truth; pull the race card if all else fails

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@jhazzroucher said:

@PassionFlower said:

We're never going to agree and that's cool. I don't think you can shoot at a person and be mad they wore kevlar. She shot at him, that makes him right to be prepared. She didn't freeze out his insides and he didn't have a satellite shoot her out of the sky, I'd say they didn't want each other dead. Also controlling the atmospherics of Wakanda didn't have to be about her. That's called having optimal weather for the citizens and farmers. My issue with her is attacking her husband because Summers told her to. I say she was wrong for siding with Summers because editorially that is how the story is playing out. That really didn't bother me. Her brawling in the streets did bother me quite a bit. Really if all she wanted was Hope she should have kept flying--unless she thought he had her in his back pocket.

I kinda agree with you on some and i consider them poor writing.

Thanks just my random opinions for whats it's worth.

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@Blood1991 said:

This is still going on after three weeks? Damn you guys are hardcore.

Buwahahaha. I am not surprised at all. : )

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This is still going on after three weeks? Damn you guys are hardcore.