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Sex, Lies, and Geek Girls Part 1

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I think the title is pretty self explanatory...

Sometimes it can be a little bit difficult being the only girl in the office; so you can only imagine how happy I was to get the chance to have some one-on-one girl talk with Animevice.com's editor in chief, Gia. Since our conversation ran a little bit long, we decided to chop it up into a few segments. Rather than strictly drawing a comparison in the major differences between Japanese and American comics; Gia and I got down to the dirty stuff as you will see...

All in all it was fun for me, and I'm sure she enjoyed it too. We just hope you will!

  


What do you guys think about the issues we touched upon? How do you feel about some of the issues we discussed?
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Black Cat
Sue Dibny
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Barbara Gordon
Marvel
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Brad Meltzer
Identity Crisis

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inferiorego

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Edited By inferiorego  Staff
@Babs said:
" @The Devil Tiger: I think that there is a difference between kinky sex and rape, though. "
indeed

NOTE: That wasn't meant to come off creepy... I should have elaborated.
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Rich-Man

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Edited By Rich-Man

all id like to say is "babs...HOW YOU DOIN'!"

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gia

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Edited By gia
@Decept-O: Kids get ahold of porn everywhere, be it hentai or live-action American stuff.  @_o
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04nbod

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Edited By 04nbod

reminds me of myself and my BFF, she's a manga fan. I always get disturbed by the presentation of sex in manga and the fact so many western women read it. Its a lot like the obsession with Spike the attempted Rapist in Buffy. There is a line between titilating resistance and No means no that so many writers cross. Of course its not just a female issue, Nightwing was raped of course and that was very graphic.

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Emperor Gonzo Noir

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Edited By Emperor Gonzo Noir

only two, just 2 men have actually been full on raped in mainstream American. Nightwing and Jack Knight. Apollo was also implied to have been raped

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Media_Master

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Edited By Media_Master

Manga is weird because of this

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xerox_kitty

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Edited By xerox_kitty

I've finally got to watch this, and I find it amusing that you guys raised yaoi since I thought of that before I'd even seen the video.  All in all, I think rape is more prevelent in the yaoi genre.  I've seen some pretty explicit stuff on a site I used to mod and the only thing I enjoyed about it was deleting it... and then telling the crying fan-girls to grow up & consider the feelings of parents who also use the site.  I have a very VERY good friend who is a yaoi fan-girl, and as much as I love her to bits I just don't understand the obsession with fanfics and hentai doujins featuring popular characters being raped by dominant male adversaries.


But in other manga, the only rape I can think of has been in Tenjou Tenge.  I'm not completely up-to-date with TenTen, but I can think of at least two instances where female characters where raped.  Not graphically, but they didn't shy away from the fact that it happened.  It happened on both occasions as a weapon.  But in that series sex is a weapon, whether it's used willingly or without consent.  

There are often uncomfortable scenes where a female hero is threatened with rape, or even undressed against their will.  Akuma No Ororon's Chiaki was only 15 and  filled with the power of a God.  By the end of the first volume she'd already been severely groped and stripped by murderous demon-hunters.  It's uncomfortable reading, but the point was that the world is horrible, cruel, violent and unpredictable.  

Other than that, a dominant male who often embarrasses a girl by sweeping her off her feet, or kissing her on the back of the hand isn't rape... it's just from the old romantic novels.  Like Mill & Boon, or Joan Collins.  Romantic clap-trap.

In American comics, it is alluded to and usually in very vague ways.  Both Karma & Rogue have been raped... but who here remembers that?!  

Karma was raped before she'd even appeared in a comic, during her exodus from Vientam.  It was vaguely mentioned in marvel Team Up 100, and the first issue of New Mutants was a little more clear but still didn't go so far as to mention it... and so when I read that as a teen I didn't truly realise what had upset Karma so much.

Then there's Rogue.  When the X-Men went to Genosha and Wipeout removed their powers, Rogue was left at the mercy of the Genoshan guards.  Claremont's writing glossed over her thoughts about how she'd always dreamed it would be a special moment, something beautiful to be treasured but instead it was horrible and violating.  

Again, it's a weapon against otherwise powerful female characters.

Then there's the rape of Black Cat.  How her origin was retconned, and therefore she decided to become the Black Cat because she had been raped.  It is a tacky and horrible means to recreate a character and supposedly give her meaning.  And yet another example of how Marvel hates the happy-go-lucky characters.  God forbid Katie Power ever steps outside the front door without a chaperone!

Ultimately, this is comics.  Whether it's in black & white or colour, or from the East or West... regular sex just isn't interesting to comic readers.  When Alias first came out, the big selling factor was the graphic and violent anal sex scene at the start.  No-one knew where that relationship would lead, but it was selling because it was shocking... and it was shocking, because it degraded a lead female character with violent unconventional sex.  Now, I'm not saying that it was rape in Alias, but it wouldn't have been as shocking if it was regular missionary position and therefore it most likely wouldn't have sold as well either.
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Edited By Calvin
@Babs: When I start to watch the video I though Nightwing will be brought up somewhere along the way - Not saying it should, just saying I though it.




Well I'm not American or Japanese, but I guess I'm way more influence by USA's culture.

I think I only see rape in American comics as a plot device to make us feel sorry for a character and deeply hate another character.

This actully works! For me at least...I think I understand Gia's point, though; about "rape", my guess is she's referring to, lets say, "kinky stuff"? I don't know, but when I hear rape, or violation as it is more commonly called in my language, it's simply a bad thing... if it's not a bad thing you'll probably need to call it another thing? I think it's hard to give rape a grey meaning... I don't see it as a taboo, something not to speak about, but I don't just don't enjoy it as a plot device in my fiction - Although I read Identity Crisis.

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The Devil Tiger

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Edited By The Devil Tiger
@inferiorego said:
"
@Babs said:
" @The Devil Tiger: I think that there is a difference between kinky sex and rape, though. "
indeedNOTE: That wasn't meant to come off creepy... I should have elaborated. "
@Babs:
Of course !

Definitely, I'm talking about sexual fantasy, not act itself. But I know some weird couple that actually like to roleplay some sexual abuse. It's only acting, the two part know it and are aware of that. Rape fantasy is creepy, but it stay only in the mind of the people who enjoy it. You can't condemn someone for a though, and in that, I'm absolutely with Gia on this. It's just weird and creepy as some people who like to have their genitalia tortured. That's just what I wanted to say. 

Real rape with real victims, is a heinous crime that must be punished, please don't misunderstand me ! I would be really sad to be looked down by someone as smarts as you and Gia !  
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jimly

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BatDance

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Edited By BatDance
@camodude said:
"i still feel a little odd after watching it. "
Then you'll love this dude
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html?pagewanted=1
Nemutan doesn’t really have a leg. She’s a stuffed pillowcase — a 2-D depiction of a character, Nemu, from an X-rated version of a PC video game called Da Capo, printed on synthetic fabric. In the game, which is less a game than an interactive visual novel about a schoolyard romance, Nemu is the loudmouthed little sister of the main character, whom she calls nisan, or “big brother,” a nickname Nisan adopted as his own when he met Nemu. When I joined the couple for lunch at their favorite all-you-can-eat salad bar in the Tokyo suburb of Hachioji, he insisted on being called only by this new nickname, addressing his body-pillow girlfriend using the suffix “tan” to show how much he adored her. Nemutan is 10, maybe 12 years old and wears a little blue bikini and gold ribbons in her hair. Nisan knows she’s not real, but that hasn’t stopped him from loving her just the same. “Of course she’s my girlfriend,” he said, widening his eyes as if shocked by the question. “I have real feelings for her.



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Edited By buns134
@buttersdaman000:  yeah babs is
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hero vs. villian

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Edited By hero vs. villian

It's good to have women in comics as readers. It is a market played towards male feelings, and that not the way it should. I see it as being fare is fare. Everyone is equal no matter skin color, or in this case, gender. Personally, I think that Brian Bendis has done things in his Avengers books such as Tigra being raped by The Hood, and Morgana Le Fay having her head ripped off by the Sentry as gross, that has completley turned me off of all his books, and that turns off the fact of getting new female readers into comics.

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