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Off My Mind: Why the New Batwing is a Great Idea

"He's a new character but you may have seen him before."

It's rare that secrets are able to be kept when it comes to comic book characters. Recently it was revealed that Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray would be taking over BATWING. They also announced they had plans to replace David Zavimbe as Batwing with someone else. There was immediate concern over the fate of David and some outcry over why this change was needed. The fact is, the change was necessary and it will be fun and exciting. (Note: there will be spoilers below for BATWING #19).

David Zavimbe as Batwing made his debut in BATMAN INCORPORATED, Volume 1 #5. He was recruited, in a sense, by Batman to become part of Batman Inc. What this really meant was Batman saw something in him. He saw the burning passion to right the wrongs in his country. Batman wasn't trying to insert his beliefs or ideals upon another nation but felt with his money and resources, he could help develop another fighting force for good. Giving David the tools he needed to become Batwing was his way to try to help rid the word of evil.

David as Batwing didn't quite work on two fronts. As mentioned in BATWING #19, David just didn't feel right being part of Batman Inc. The bat-symbol wasn't who he was. In short, he didn't quite fit into the Bat-mythos. This isn't to say he wants to give up his fight. He still strongly feels the need to dedicate himself to doing all he can. He just doesn't feel doing it as Batwing is the answer.

The reality of it is, this is for the best. David is a great character, one that shouldn't simply disappear. He deserves to be something more than just another Bat-character. He had no ties to Batman or Gotham City so it never really made sense for him to be part of the 'family.' In order to involve him (and the title) in Night of the Owls, the story had to come up with a reason for him to be in Gotham despite wanting to focus on the troubles in his own nation.

The other fact is despite having fans, the series wasn't doing too great in sales. Again, the reason was David didn't really have a strong connection to Batman and the others in Gotham. When the interactions did come up, it felt a little forced. By bringing in a new Batwing with a stronger connection to Gotham and Batman, David is still able to fight his battles but on his own terms.

In BATWING #19, we get a glimpse at who the new Batwing will be. It turns out Lucius Fox's son, Luke Fox, will be joining the Bat-Family in a big way. Who is Luke Fox? It might not be official but we may have seen Luke Fox previously in Batman Beyond, as Lucius Fox Jr. This goes along with their description of him being "a new character but [we] may have seen him before."

While Gray and Palmiotti may not want to confirm or deny it is the same character from the animated series, it makes sense that they could be, even if the Batman Beyond Universe isn't necessarily 100% guaranteed to be the future of BATMAN.

Luke Fox is a MMA fighter. He's been doing it for four years at this point. That gives him a certain level of training that would allow him to stand a chance in Batman's Family. A new suit has been developed, ironically enough by Lucius Fox. The level of tech contained in the suit is beyond anything that Batman himself wears. It almost feels as if it's a predecessor to the familiar suit Terry McGinnis later wears.

The fact that Batman is bringing in Lucius Fox's son is a huge risk. This is what gives the story a nice new twist. Lucius is not aware of Batman's true identity. We would think he would have to have some suspicions especially due to the fact he's a brilliant man. But it could be that Bruce Wayne puts on a great act.

The future?

We're seeing Batman become more and more dependent on the tech developed by Fox and Wayne Tech. Fox doesn't approve of his son fighting and would clearly be completely against Luke becoming a costumed crime fighter, especially after what happened to Batman's own son.

Hopefully we haven't seen the last of David Zavimbe. Luke Fox adds a new element to the Bat-Family. It will be fascinating to see his fighting style combined with the tech of the new Batwing suit. It may not be a situation everyone would approve of but this opens the door to some very intriguing stories. I can't remember the last time I've been this curious and interested in a 'new' character. Let's just hope he survives long enough for us to see what he's fully capable of.

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Posted by Akindoodle

@zeeguy91 said:

@faceman said:

@jphugo15: completely agree. he got his son killed, can't wait to see how he gets Lucius' son killed. Gets to a point where you gotta say Bruce, you're kind of out of control here. Dude seems like he's got quite the hard on for this new bat suit, look at the smile on his face! Hey man, your son was disemboweled before your eyes a couple days ago, maybe time to re-evaluate this whole running around dressed like a bat thing.

To be fair, Bruce really didn't get Damian killed. He told Damian to stay behind, didn't he? He saw that it was too dangerous. Damian disobeyed him and went to join the fight anyway.

That does not justify him putting another person's son in danger. His friend no less...

Edited by drgnx
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice how we are talking about "the way they replaced Batwing"? Notice how I said in my first paragraph: ".... (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, ....."

Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read. When you consider we have been talking about Luke introduction this whole time and somehow think David's relationship is relevant ... is baffling.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

Posted by drgnx

@akindoodle:

I have a feeling that they didn't want to cannibalize existing characters when they made Batwing. It is probably why they didn't use someone with a history. The choice to make Batwing closer to the Bat-family seems to be more recent. Basically you're asking why they didn't do what they are doing now sooner, and that is probably because they didn't want to do it at that point, but now realize that it was a mistake.

Edited by thejman250

@drgnx said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

Edited by Faceman

@zeeguy91 said:

@faceman said:

@jphugo15: completely agree. he got his son killed, can't wait to see how he gets Lucius' son killed. Gets to a point where you gotta say Bruce, you're kind of out of control here. Dude seems like he's got quite the hard on for this new bat suit, look at the smile on his face! Hey man, your son was disemboweled before your eyes a couple days ago, maybe time to re-evaluate this whole running around dressed like a bat thing.

To be fair, Bruce really didn't get Damian killed. He told Damian to stay behind, didn't he? He saw that it was too dangerous. Damian disobeyed him and went to join the fight anyway.

@zeeguy91: In a way, he's not directly responsible for this particular extremely dangerous situation that Damian found his way into. Bruce left his skinny, 60-70 yr. old butler in charge of ensuring that his 11 yr. old living weapon of a son didn't leave the house to fight crime the way he normally would on this particular night. Now Bruce (according to the last issue of Batman Inc.) is pissed at Alfred that Damian is dead. C'mon man, take some responsibility for the choices you've made in your life. Not sure 'keeping dangerous vigilantes alive and out of trouble' is exactly part of Alfie's job description. I don't know; this whole Damian death is really sticking in my craw and I'm trying not to bitch too much about it until I see how Batman Inc. is resolved by Morrison. At the moment I absolutely hate it, think it was an awful idea and think the follow-up has been really poorly executed on paper. Honestly feels, reading the 'Requiem' issues, that the writers of the bat-books found out about Damian dying when we did (I know this isn't true). The aftermath has made it seem like something that just happened instead of the life-altering event that it should be. Cry a few tears...ok, what was I doing...oh right...PENGUIN YOU CAD!

What I know is that that Bruce was so transformed by witnessing the death of his parents that he vowed to change his life and carry out this personal mission. How will witnessing the extremely violent death of his own son effect Bruce emotionally? Not enough to change a single thing about his life, or even seriously examine whether what he is doing is sane or helpful to himself or others. Oh wait, he was feeling down but, you know, "RESOLVE" guy. For me, it's getting harder and harder to accept that Bruce (who we're all supposed to admire and respect) could even open the door to the batcave after what has happened let alone put on that suit and go out on patrol every night like nothing has happened. Sure he seems sad about it in a couple of the 'Requiem' issues (Batman/B&R/Batman Inc.) but for the most part it's business as usual for Bruce and Batman. My suspension of disbelief for this character (who I have loved for more than 30 years) is getting dangerously close to the ground on this one.

As you can see I have a lot of thoughts on the subject.

Also, Batwing!

Edited by Nelomaxwell

@drgnx said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

If I recall after watching the history of comics documentary, Batgirl was introduced for the sake of diversity. I'd like to know your thoughts on this.

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:
@thejman250 said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they are now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said "we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake"? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve. So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points? LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate "Dick replacing Bruce" vs "Luc replacing David", you, yourself said

Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate (sarcasm)
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselves which is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Despite current USA affairs this is all just coincidence? (But I'm guessing an Arab being associate with terrorism, innocent or not, is fine with you.) Was it just such a natural association it didn't stand out for you? Yet, Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was, and more importantly, that's an issue for you.

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transition was going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with no real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white character abruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

Edited by RedheadedAtrocitus

It actually makes sense to me that Luke Fox would be a logical choice even if its sad to see Zavimbe go. The idea of someone being more tired to Gotham is a critical factor, even if it does seem an odd choice to bring Lucius' son into the operation. We'll just have to see in time if this choice was a good one or not I suppose.

Edited by Yung ANcient One

@lamenoire: Point taken

Especially the Barbara Gordon part was a good point.

( + )

Posted by Twentyfive

I will be somewhat sad to see Zavimbe go, but I am looking forward with optimism to what future issues hold for the franchise. I hope this change saves the book from cancellation, and that Luke will be brought into major Bat-events with characters like Barbara and Dick and whoever else.

I think for DC, and as well as comics as a whole... if you want to approach Africa, a good idea would be to explore some of the fantasy that is tied with that continent. The world's oldest magic as well as the oldest gods are there. You can make a fantasy comic. There is actually a ton of things you can do with Africa. Please don't give up. The first arc with Winick was awesome, now try other approaches to the setting!!

Edited by thejman250

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:
@thejman250 said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve. So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points? LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselves which is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transition was going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white character abruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

- I don’t have anything to back up my opinion? You must be illiterate.

- Oh, you mean your opinion that my argument has no substance? Understood.

- If you don’t know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity is, you are incredibly ignorant. You don’t need logic to understand that, only common sense.

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

- The word is "your" child. English obviously isn't your friend, or even distant associate, along with common sense.

- You remember that talk with your parents about using common sense? My posts have definitely been about luke and not DC having diversity simply for the sake of having diversity. Oh wait.

- I don't think you've even been accepted into pre school with this minimal brain capacity that you have been putting on display.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

- Oh, I mentioned characters that you brought up to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument after you brought the examples up? Surprise, surprise

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- Not that you didn’t fabricate either of these “concepts” into my argument, either. Oh wait.

- No, I definitely mentioned batgirl, Richard, wally, Azriel, and "point 1" and "point 2". Oh wait, try again.

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument? It’s quite pathetic that you couldn’t even properly defeat points that you yourself fabricated.

- You can find whatever you want “funny” , I don’t give a damn about what you think.

- My argument being “empty” is your opinion kid, and you obviously don’t understand what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. Try again, or perhaps return to grade school(if you’re even out of grade school, I may be giving you too much credit by speaking to you as if you actually are) . I think the latter option might be the best for someone like you.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Yes, as far as I’m concerned that’s what they’re doing.

- I wasn’t in the office just like you weren’t However; you apparently lack the brain capacity to understand that.

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve.So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points?LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

- Oh yes, I’m supposed to do DC’s job for DC, when they pay people to do it. I’m not obligated to brainstorm for you or DC child, get over it.

- I don’t deserve something? That’s a nice opinion and nothing more.

- Because a 50 year old character replacing a 70 year old character is the same as a random character replacing another randomly introduced character. Try again.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- Actually, it was one the points ("point 1" and "point 2") that you fabricated into my argument because you appearently had nothing to speak about.

- I used one of the examples that you brought up to defeat the points that you frabicated into my argument to show you that your examples didn't actually defeat the points you frabricated as you had intended? Ok.

- Like you said "point 1" and "point 2" were my points? Ok you imbecile , you're clearly illiterate.

- I brought up something as a response to your drivel? If anything, whatever point i brought up was only a response to your drivel and not my actual argument however, that was after you attempted to fabricate "point 1" and "point 2" into my argument.

- "Back to", you mean back to my initial argument and not the idiotic "point 1" and "point 2" which you attempted to fabricate into my argument? Understood.

- Either you have the brain capacity of a fish, or you're simply illiterate. Which one is it?

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselveswhich is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I'm pretty sure that you don't know a damned thing about me you utterly ignorant child.

- When did i say that luke needed to be a 50 year old character? The time was simply a response to your examples that failed to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument in the first place. However, i doubt you have the brain capacity to understand this.

- Any of the other temp Batman who were previously a part of the series and related to Bruce in some way? Obviously.

- I doubt that they would be upset with a character that was previously established as white in canon continuity was white.

- If they were going to complain about Richard being white, they would have done it long ago. I doubt people were going to complain that the second Batman was white, when all of his sons who were trained to replace him as Batman were white for years.

- You mean the two concepts that you fabricated into my argument are different? Ok sir. It's not as though you were even capable of bringing in examples to defeat the ponits that you fabricated, as you failed at that as well.

- I find it insulting to the intelligence of the human race that you would have the audacity to fabricate "points" into my argument in order to avoid my actual argument, then fail at your attempts to defeat the points you yourself fabricated.

- You obviously don't know what the term diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. That's pretty evident after reading your posts.

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- Again, you don't know what diversity for the sake of diversity means. You're clearly ignorant and i don't really need to have a conversation with an ignorant child.

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

- I'm pretty sure that Johns didn't make Simon Arabic simply to have an Arabic character sir. If he did, he did it so well that i , along with many others, did not notice.

- Completely coincidental that there was a terrorist plot line in a comic book that mainly took place in the U.S. after 9/11 right? I think not sir.

- Your ignorance apparently knows no bounds.

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

- Oh, you determine what is forced and what isn't forced for all comic book characters, and comic book readers alike? No you don't child. Your opinion or definition of the word forced only applies to you and i suggest you keep it to yourself. Your opinion is not a fact child. Common sense.

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transitionwas going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

- You're determining what others should view as forced and what they shouldn't? That's a nice opinion child.

- You still don't know what i'm "getting at"? Surprise surprise that will happen when you don't read properly and when you make up nonsense.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I doubt you know what everyone's opinion on one book is, as if you've actually spoken to ever individual who reads the book in the world.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

- That's a nice opinion there.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

- "with not real reasoning". As if you could actually determine what was "real reasoning" for me child. I don't really care for your ignorant opinion child.

- If i were to enter in a debate with someone i thought was worthy of having a debate with me, then i would proceed to prove , or provide evidence, to my points. Unfortunately, you do not meet that criteria and this "conversation" is probably the closest you will ever get to having a debate with me.

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white characterabruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- I know that common sense isn't your friend , or even a distant associate, because you apparently felt the need to fabricate points into my argument and then you failed at providing examples that would defeat those points.

- You can't even give examples to defeat the points that you fabricated, that's quite pathetic child.

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- So be it. I'm sure we all know who the Asian batgirl was, it's quite irrelevant which one she came after.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- I won't dignify this ignorance with a response.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

- I don't work for DC and therefore, i'm not obligated to brainstorm ideas or scenarios for them.

- Considering, you brought up Richard, Wally, Batgirl, Azirel, "point 1", and "point 2" i would say that all of that is a part of your incompetent and incoherent drivel. You obviously don't know what you yourself wrote. How ironic.

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Actually, your examples were so trivial and incompetent that they couldn't even defeat the points that you fabricated into my argument the way you wanted them to. Again, that's quite pathetic.

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

- Actually, you've attempted to fabricate nonsense into my argument and you lack the brain capacity to even do that properly. Surprise, surprise.

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- My opinion is just ignorance? Typical child believing that their opinion is fact, and is above that of others. Surprise surprise. That's a nice opinion you have there by the way.

- Who is "we"? I doubt that you're included in that, however you don't determine what people do and what they don't sir. Try again.

- They clearly don't need a reason for doing so , as they're doing one without this reason. However, i won't be buying this racist trash which DC is making diverse, simply to have diversity.

- You don't determine what should not be the case for all comic book readers sir. People have, and are entitled to their own opinions and you can't do a damned thing about it. Get over it.

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

- That would be "your" sir. Did you really underline and bold a word after you misspelled it? Hilarious.

- Or perhaps you should learn what "diversity simply/only for the sake of diversity" is instead of fabricating drivel and then attempting to say that it is a part of my argument because you apparently have nothing to speak about.

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:
@thejman250 said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve. So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points? LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselves which is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transition was going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white character abruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

- I don’t have anything to back up my opinion? You must be illiterate.

- Oh, you mean your opinion that my argument has no substance? Understood.

- If you don’t know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity is, you are incredibly ignorant. You don’t need logic to understand that, only common sense.

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

- The word is "your" child. English obviously isn't your friend, or even distant associate, along with common sense.

- You remember that talk with your parents about using common sense? My posts have definitely been about luke and not DC having diversity simply for the sake of having diversity. Oh wait.

- I don't think you've even been accepted into pre school with this minimal brain capacity that you have been putting on display.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

- Oh, I mentioned characters that you brought up to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument after you brought the examples up? Surprise, surprise

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- Not that you didn’t fabricate either of these “concepts” into my argument, either. Oh wait.

- No, I definitely mentioned batgirl, Richard, wally, Azriel, and "point 1" and "point 2". Oh wait, try again.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

But nice try

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument? It’s quite pathetic that you couldn’t even properly defeat points that you yourself fabricated.

- You can find whatever you want “funny” , I don’t give a damn about what you think.

- My argument being “empty” is your opinion kid, and you obviously don’t understand what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. Try again, or perhaps return to grade school(if you’re even out of grade school, I may be giving you too much credit by speaking to you as if you actually are) . I think the latter option might be the best for someone like you.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. Oh, I must be illiterate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Yes, as far as I’m concerned that’s what they’re doing.

- I wasn’t in the office just like you weren’t However; you apparently lack the brain capacity to understand that.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve.So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points?LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

- Oh yes, I’m supposed to do DC’s job for DC, when they pay people to do it. I’m not obligated to brainstorm for you or DC child, get over it.

- I don’t deserve something? That’s a nice opinion and nothing more.

- Because a 50 year old character replacing a 70 year old character is the same as a random character replacing another randomly introduced character. Try again.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that "I" fabricated. LMAO!!!!!!!!

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- Actually, it was one the points ("point 1" and "point 2") that you fabricated into my argument because you appearently had nothing to speak about.

- I used one of the examples that you brought up to defeat the points that you frabicated into my argument to show you that your examples didn't actually defeat the points you frabricated as you had intended? Ok.

- Like you said "point 1" and "point 2" were my points? Ok you imbecile , you're clearly illiterate.

- I brought up something as a response to your drivel? If anything, whatever point i brought up was only a response to your drivel and not my actual argument however, that was after you attempted to fabricate "point 1" and "point 2" into my argument.

- "Back to", you mean back to my initial argument and not the idiotic "point 1" and "point 2" which you attempted to fabricate into my argument? Understood.

- Either you have the brain capacity of a fish, or you're simply illiterate. Which one is it?

So lets see:

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselveswhich is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I'm pretty sure that you don't know a damned thing about me you utterly ignorant child.

- When did i say that luke needed to be a 50 year old character? The time was simply a response to your examples that failed to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument in the first place. However, i doubt you have the brain capacity to understand this.

- Any of the other temp Batman who were previously a part of the series and related to Bruce in some way? Obviously.

- I doubt that they would be upset with a character that was previously established as white in canon continuity was white.

- If they were going to complain about Richard being white, they would have done it long ago. I doubt people were going to complain that the second Batman was white, when all of his sons who were trained to replace him as Batman were white for years.

- You mean the two concepts that you fabricated into my argument are different? Ok sir. It's not as though you were even capable of bringing in examples to defeat the ponits that you fabricated, as you failed at that as well.

- I find it insulting to the intelligence of the human race that you would have the audacity to fabricate "points" into my argument in order to avoid my actual argument, then fail at your attempts to defeat the points you yourself fabricated.

- You obviously don't know what the term diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. That's pretty evident after reading your posts.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

As for these ideas, I have fabricated??

So lets see:

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- Again, you don't know what diversity for the sake of diversity means. You're clearly ignorant and i don't really need to have a conversation with an ignorant child.

Great post! Great arguments!

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

- I'm pretty sure that Johns didn't make Simon Arabic simply to have an Arabic character sir. If he did, he did it so well that i , along with many others, did not notice.

- Completely coincidental that there was a terrorist plot line in a comic book that mainly took place in the U.S. after 9/11 right? I think not sir.

- Your ignorance apparently knows no bounds.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

- Oh, you determine what is forced and what isn't forced for all comic book characters, and comic book readers alike? No you don't child. Your opinion or definition of the word forced only applies to you and i suggest you keep it to yourself. Your opinion is not a fact child. Common sense.

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transitionwas going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

- You're determining what others should view as forced and what they shouldn't? That's a nice opinion child.

- You still don't know what i'm "getting at"? Surprise surprise that will happen when you don't read properly and when you make up nonsense.

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I doubt you know what everyone's opinion on one book is, as if you've actually spoken to ever individual who reads the book in the world.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

- That's a nice opinion there.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

- "with not real reasoning". As if you could actually determine what was "real reasoning" for me child. I don't really care for your ignorant opinion child.

- If i were to enter in a debate with someone i thought was worthy of having a debate with me, then i would proceed to prove , or provide evidence, to my points. Unfortunately, you do not meet that criteria and this "conversation" is probably the closest you will ever get to having a debate with me.

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white characterabruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- I know that common sense isn't your friend , or even a distant associate, because you apparently felt the need to fabricate points into my argument and then you failed at providing examples that would defeat those points.

- You can't even give examples to defeat the points that you fabricated, that's quite pathetic child.

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much? .

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- So be it. I'm sure we all know who the Asian batgirl was, it's quite irrelevant which one she came after.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- I won't dignify this ignorance with a response.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

- I don't work for DC and therefore, i'm not obligated to brainstorm ideas or scenarios for them.

- Considering, you brought up Richard, Wally, Batgirl, Azirel, "point 1", and "point 2" i would say that all of that is a part of your incompetent and incoherent drivel. You obviously don't know what you yourself wrote. How ironic.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Actually, your examples were so trivial and incompetent that they couldn't even defeat the points that you fabricated into my argument the way you wanted them to. Again, that's quite pathetic.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

Then enlighten me sweetheart

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

- Actually, you've attempted to fabricate nonsense into my argument and you lack the brain capacity to even do that properly. Surprise, surprise.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- My opinion is just ignorance? Typical child believing that their opinion is fact, and is above that of others. Surprise surprise. That's a nice opinion you have there by the way.

- Who is "we"? I doubt that you're included in that, however you don't determine what people do and what they don't sir. Try again.

- They clearly don't need a reason for doing so , as they're doing one without this reason. However, i won't be buying this racist trash which DC is making diverse, simply to have diversity.

- You don't determine what should not be the case for all comic book readers sir. People have, and are entitled to their own opinions and you can't do a damned thing about it. Get over it.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

- That would be "your" sir. Did you really underline and bold a word after you misspelled it? Hilarious.

- Or perhaps you should learn what "diversity simply/only for the sake of diversity" is instead of fabricating drivel and then attempting to say that it is a part of my argument because you apparently have nothing to speak about.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps you should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". Tomorrow is Monday, take your explanation to school and have your teacher proof-read it first or have your tutor write it for you.

Edited by thejman250

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:
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@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve. So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points? LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselves which is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transition was going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white character abruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

Basically you spent 5 points to mention you ain't got jack to back up your statement. And no, I never used the fallacy of ignorance because I never concluded I'm right because you don't have proof, I just pointed your argument has no substance and you have failed to provide any logic.

- I don’t have anything to back up my opinion? You must be illiterate.

- Oh, you mean your opinion that my argument has no substance? Understood.

- If you don’t know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity is, you are incredibly ignorant. You don’t need logic to understand that, only common sense.

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

You remember that talk about comprehension? I'm talking about Luc replacing David but being introduced in the similar manner to the 2 Batgirls. I don't think you've even gotten to grade 2 with this deplorable attention span.

- The word is "your" child. English obviously isn't your friend, or even distant associate, along with common sense.

- You remember that talk with your parents about using common sense? My posts have definitely been about luke and not DC having diversity simply for the sake of having diversity. Oh wait.

- I don't think you've even been accepted into pre school with this minimal brain capacity that you have been putting on display.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

No, but you did mention several Characters (I brought up) starting off as white, which has nothing to do with anything relevant on the topic of a character replacing a character of the same color, because All of these characters started off the same color as they now. So your last 4 points are wasted text. But nice try.

- Oh, I mentioned characters that you brought up to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument after you brought the examples up? Surprise, surprise

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

I did mention Barbra didn't I? I'm pretty sure I did. Learn to read. The 1st 2 Batgirls were introduced abruptly, the only difference is in the time between replacement, but clearly putting a gap between the 2 Batwings would have cancelled the comics unless they used a stand in which they clearly didn't want to do. Not that the concept of sudden replacement is tied to race either.

- Not that you didn’t fabricate either of these “concepts” into my argument, either. Oh wait.

- No, I definitely mentioned batgirl, Richard, wally, Azriel, and "point 1" and "point 2". Oh wait, try again.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

But nice try

My Comparison of him to Wally was the aspect of a character of one race replacing another of the same race, to show you how absurd crying about a character of one race complaining about being replaced by a character of the same race was just that, absurd. To argue your points I have to only show examples of where they individually fail, not where the amalgamation of them fails because it is not required to show how empty your argument is. Hence why Barbra is my example of an abrupt introduction.

The reason for Luc being a replacement are yet to be given, which is why I find it laughable that you would argue against it with no basis other than he "had to be black" which seems to be where your true issue lies.

I'm not saying Luc is a logical choice for the same reasons, I'm baffled people are crying about him. because DC has not provided much detail, which indicates there seems to be an issue about his race. I don't need to have an opposing opinion to see your argument is empty, I just need to be objective. I may find Luc to be a bad fit later on, but my objections won't have anything to do with his race.

- To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument? It’s quite pathetic that you couldn’t even properly defeat points that you yourself fabricated.

- You can find whatever you want “funny” , I don’t give a damn about what you think.

- My argument being “empty” is your opinion kid, and you obviously don’t understand what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. Try again, or perhaps return to grade school(if you’re even out of grade school, I may be giving you too much credit by speaking to you as if you actually are) . I think the latter option might be the best for someone like you.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

You do know there was an interview on this right? The only thing they didn't say they didn't want to cannibalism a more established character, but that action obviously speaks for itself because they didn't.

I will point out I also find this comment funny coming from someone who so adamantly feels DC's mindset is to just have a Black Character in the Bat-family for diversity sake, so were you in the office when DC officials said we must have a Black member of the Bat-family for diversity sake? Or is it only okay for you to know what DC's true motives are and no-one else to surmise?

- Yes, as far as I’m concerned that’s what they’re doing.

- I wasn’t in the office just like you weren’t However; you apparently lack the brain capacity to understand that.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

Because you have spent several pages arguing this Black Character should have been introduced more discretely when you have not defined how at this point, so I'm giving you you the benefit of the doubt, which you clearly don't deserve.So you've been so adamant to show that Dick was more established when he took over from Batman as reason as to why no-one shouldn't have questioned this as a race issue perspective but it is not one of your points?LOL, Really? Because in order to differentiate Dick replacing Bruce vs Luc replacing David, you yourself said

- Oh yes, I’m supposed to do DC’s job for DC, when they pay people to do it. I’m not obligated to brainstorm for you or DC child, get over it.

- I don’t deserve something? That’s a nice opinion and nothing more.

- Because a 50 year old character replacing a 70 year old character is the same as a random character replacing another randomly introduced character. Try again.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

And that's the closest thing I've seen you give a reason to defend your "opinion". But now it is not one of your points? LOL? But you use it again in the next statement to defend Dick replacing Bruce free of racial scrutiny vs. Luke& David..... Lets not forget YOU brought up the character integration when I pointed out examples of white characters replacing other white characters (without race being questioned), so yes, this was "your" point.

Either

  1. You tried to point out that somehow their integration made it okay for Dick, Jason, and Wally to replace their predecessors free of racial scrutiny while Luc's lack of, somehow does allows for scrutiny for keeping the character black (for the sake of being black).
  2. You mentioned it because you liked the sound of your keyboard as you type.
  3. I need to learn to read and stop being illiterate
  4. Some other reason that you don't feel obligated to tell me, because I don't ownz the Internets
  5. <Maybe you will actually surprise me and clarify>

Now, since character integration is not one of your points (despite using it in your next statement). You're back to just having an issue with role staying with a Black character (for diversity sake) ...

- Actually, it was one the points ("point 1" and "point 2") that you fabricated into my argument because you appearently had nothing to speak about.

- I used one of the examples that you brought up to defeat the points that you frabicated into my argument to show you that your examples didn't actually defeat the points you frabricated as you had intended? Ok.

- Like you said "point 1" and "point 2" were my points? Ok you imbecile , you're clearly illiterate.

- I brought up something as a response to your drivel? If anything, whatever point i brought up was only a response to your drivel and not my actual argument however, that was after you attempted to fabricate "point 1" and "point 2" into my argument.

- "Back to", you mean back to my initial argument and not the idiotic "point 1" and "point 2" which you attempted to fabricate into my argument? Understood.

- Either you have the brain capacity of a fish, or you're simply illiterate. Which one is it?

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

So what? Luke needed to be established as a Black character for 50 years before he could take up the Batwing Mantle, when the their choice to replace Batwing was less than a year? I'm pretty sure that even if this were the case you would still be crying about Luc replacing David.

So again, Dick replacing Batman was more about his integration into Batman's Methos than a white character replacing a white character. My point is no-one had an issue with that, or any of the other Temp Batmen being white. But you clearly have an issue with Luc being Black. You keep trying to use the amount of time a character has establish themselveswhich is a completely different concept from a character of one race replacing a character of the same race, so stop trying to use one point to defend the other. It won't work, they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into each-other.

I find it an offense to the concept of logic that you would acknowledge that the other examples of a characters taking up the Batman Mantle has nothing to do with keeping him white, but seem to somehow think Luc's lack of pre-existing integration somehow supports your argument and objection to keeping him black (for the sake of diversity).

- I'm pretty sure that you don't know a damned thing about me you utterly ignorant child.

- When did i say that luke needed to be a 50 year old character? The time was simply a response to your examples that failed to defeat points that you fabricated into my argument in the first place. However, i doubt you have the brain capacity to understand this.

- Any of the other temp Batman who were previously a part of the series and related to Bruce in some way? Obviously.

- I doubt that they would be upset with a character that was previously established as white in canon continuity was white.

- If they were going to complain about Richard being white, they would have done it long ago. I doubt people were going to complain that the second Batman was white, when all of his sons who were trained to replace him as Batman were white for years.

- You mean the two concepts that you fabricated into my argument are different? Ok sir. It's not as though you were even capable of bringing in examples to defeat the ponits that you fabricated, as you failed at that as well.

- I find it insulting to the intelligence of the human race that you would have the audacity to fabricate "points" into my argument in order to avoid my actual argument, then fail at your attempts to defeat the points you yourself fabricated.

- You obviously don't know what the term diversity simply for the sake of diversity means. That's pretty evident after reading your posts.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

Again, whats wrong with wanting to have a black character? If Lucius Fox, David, and Luc were white and they added Luc in the exact same manner, would you be saying they wanted to a white character for the sake of having a white character? Clearly you wouldn't.

- Again, you don't know what diversity for the sake of diversity means. You're clearly ignorant and i don't really need to have a conversation with an ignorant child.

Great post! Great arguments!

Yet they tied Simon in with a terrorist plot-line in an attempt to show him struggle through "an" Arabic stereotype? Nope, nothing to do with him being Arabic. Completely coincidental as all nations have terrorists right? Yet Fox who we know nothing about, oh it is all about him being black just because the last character was.

- I'm pretty sure that Johns didn't make Simon Arabic simply to have an Arabic character sir. If he did, he did it so well that i , along with many others, did not notice.

- Completely coincidental that there was a terrorist plot line in a comic book that mainly took place in the U.S. after 9/11 right? I think not sir.

- Your ignorance apparently knows no bounds.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

It wasn't forced? The guy showed up and got a ring in the same issue. Luc has not even been ordained yet, even if he gets the mantel next issue, it wouldn't be any less "forced" than Baz! The only difference is Baz was planned a lot longer in advance as he appeared in a free issue (with no story line but detailing the new characters).

- Oh, you determine what is forced and what isn't forced for all comic book characters, and comic book readers alike? No you don't child. Your opinion or definition of the word forced only applies to you and i suggest you keep it to yourself. Your opinion is not a fact child. Common sense.

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

And while this new approach might effect David's story, it shouldn't effect the manner in which Luc presents himself to the point of him being more forced upon us than Simone to take up a mantle. As for the the effects on the story, DC does that with the cancellations, the stories are rushed to tie up lose ends. Regardless of who they used, the transitionwas going to be rushed once they decided to replace him, if thats what you're getting at, so this concept is not specifically tied to race issue nor support a hint of it at all.

- You're determining what others should view as forced and what they shouldn't? That's a nice opinion child.

- You still don't know what i'm "getting at"? Surprise surprise that will happen when you don't read properly and when you make up nonsense.

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen.

- I doubt you know what everyone's opinion on one book is, as if you've actually spoken to ever individual who reads the book in the world.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

Because you're doing such a great job at repeating you're statements....hint you're not!

- That's a nice opinion there.

The guy who has an issue with DC wanting a character to be Black (and feels they need to "discrete" about it) with not real reasoning has no business calling "me" ignorant. ;)

The guy who didn't think he should have to defend his points in a debate, thinks to call me "ignorant".

- "with not real reasoning". As if you could actually determine what was "real reasoning" for me child. I don't really care for your ignorant opinion child.

- If i were to enter in a debate with someone i thought was worthy of having a debate with me, then i would proceed to prove , or provide evidence, to my points. Unfortunately, you do not meet that criteria and this "conversation" is probably the closest you will ever get to having a debate with me.

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

I know that comprehension is not your strong suit, but I did clearly mention that Azriel was an example of a White character replacing a white character, not that he was an example of a white character replacing a white characterabruptly.

I have clearly indicated I am arguing the of a character of 1 race replacing a character of the same race separate from the concept of a character suddenly appearing into continuity because that is what they are, and trying to act as if joining the to concepts suddenly make it an issue when it individual components do not, only shows your argument has nothing to stand on.

- I know that common sense isn't your friend , or even a distant associate, because you apparently felt the need to fabricate points into my argument and then you failed at providing examples that would defeat those points.

- You can't even give examples to defeat the points that you fabricated, that's quite pathetic child.

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much? .

The second Batgirl was Barbra Gordan, the first Batgirl was Bette Kane, so yes you are clearly mistaken.

- So be it. I'm sure we all know who the Asian batgirl was, it's quite irrelevant which one she came after.

Clearly that is a problem for you.

- I won't dignify this ignorance with a response.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

Since you clearly refuse to define how or why DC need to introduce a Black replacement character discretely, I'm left to guess what you're actual reasoning is. But considering you're always talking about how Dick has been around for 50 years, as you're defense for point 1, I would say it is part of you're argument. I mean you should at least know what you yourself wrote.

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

- I don't work for DC and therefore, i'm not obligated to brainstorm ideas or scenarios for them.

- Considering, you brought up Richard, Wally, Batgirl, Azirel, "point 1", and "point 2" i would say that all of that is a part of your incompetent and incoherent drivel. You obviously don't know what you yourself wrote. How ironic.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

Yet you defend the concept with point 2 every time, which gets shot down, so can't be that trivial.

- Actually, your examples were so trivial and incompetent that they couldn't even defeat the points that you fabricated into my argument the way you wanted them to. Again, that's quite pathetic.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

Once Again, comprehension is not your ally. I'm pointing out that no-one makes similar arguments when DC replaces white characters with white, so why is it so different when they do so with color? I'm pretty certain that there are different circumstances beyond various character replacements, but I would be baffled if race was an issue for white characters, so why does it need to be for Blacks? Why does DC need to worry about discretion for blacks (for the sake of being black).

- You clearly don't know what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means.

Then enlighten me sweetheart

You have had to put several different points together to make an argument when those individual points fail on themselves, and continue to use one failed point to support another. Race to race replacement and character integration (before taking up a mantel) are 2 separate concepts that have existed long before Luc ever appeared. So that both concepts are suddenly being applied to Luc at the same time shouldn't be an issue as they are 2 different concepts that don't feed into eachother.

- Actually, you've attempted to fabricate nonsense into my argument and you lack the brain capacity to even do that properly. Surprise, surprise.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

And your point about "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity" is just ignorance. This implies that when an author adds the character of an ethnic group without some clear explanation, we assume its for no reason other than adding someone of that group. And while it might be true, this attitude implies there needs to be a reason for adding someone from that group. There is very little way to take this other than a writer needs to justify adding a non-white male (or whatever the norm is for the Author's location) to a plot and this should not be the case.

- My opinion is just ignorance? Typical child believing that their opinion is fact, and is above that of others. Surprise surprise. That's a nice opinion you have there by the way.

- Who is "we"? I doubt that you're included in that, however you don't determine what people do and what they don't sir. Try again.

- They clearly don't need a reason for doing so , as they're doing one without this reason. However, i won't be buying this racist trash which DC is making diverse, simply to have diversity.

- You don't determine what should not be the case for all comic book readers sir. People have, and are entitled to their own opinions and you can't do a damned thing about it. Get over it.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

Yet you're only defense to the points I've made have revolved around Luc's abrupt introduction to the series and so my responses have been geared towards that. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with your own arguments ... or lack of.

- That would be "your" sir. Did you really underline and bold a word after you misspelled it? Hilarious.

- Or perhaps you should learn what "diversity simply/only for the sake of diversity" is instead of fabricating drivel and then attempting to say that it is a part of my argument because you apparently have nothing to speak about.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

Posted by thejman250

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:
@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@thejman250 said:

- Replace one black character with another black character.

- Because Batwing definitely has to be black. Interesting.

Could've been asian or hispanic would've been cool too I think. Personally I think anything but white male could fit at this point because we all know we need another white guy running around in a batsuit policing people .

- If DC's going to make a character Black, simply to have a Black character i think that they should be more discreet about it.

Like how? Replace a white Character with a Black Character, cause would go totally different, or just create a new Black character and give him a new title as soon as they cancel Batwing and call him something else (DreadWing anyone)? I know, lets wait a year or 10 before launching the next Black character?

I mean when Barry got replaced with Wally, I didn't hear any of this reasoning, Batman gets replaced with several other family members and no one applies this logic, but a Black character gets replaced with a Black Character, heaven forbid that DC "might" clearly want a Black character in that role...

- "Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

- Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

---------

"Like how"? Perhaps in a way that wasn't so painfully obvious.


Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- Am i supposed to care that you have a Black character just to have one? At least Simon Baz was inserted in a more discreet manner.

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity is not something i'm fond of. What's next, create a random gay arabic black character simply for the sake of having a gay arabic black character?

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, this applies because Wally definitely wasn't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, it doesn't and your argument fails. Surprise, surprise.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Batman gets replaced by Family members who weren't a part of the series thus far. Oh wait, your argument fails here as well.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Replacing one black character with another black character simply to have a black character fill that role is completely different than having your sidekick replace you when you happen to fall in the line of fire as they've basically been training for that scenario.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

Try again, and hopefully you'll have better arguments next time.

The only thing I failed at was getting a proper response from you.

Like give an example to back up your point, under their current constraints (Their goal to introduce a character close to Batman, different and unattached to David, and yes, a Black one at that, and under their obligation to finish off story lines of the current Batwing).

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

- Yes, Batwing has to be black, because they must have a black character. Oh ok. Having a black character, just for the sake of having a black character. Surprise, surprise.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

How was it more discrete, explain, don't just state

- Figure it out. I don't have to explain my opinion to you sir. Try again.

Concession accepted

You repeated you first statement but replaced Black with Diversity, what does any of this prove? Will you be complaining about women next too? Here, is something to chew on: the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters). Chew Away!!!

- Yes, because David was definitely related to someone else prior to his inception. Oh wait. Your point fails once again.

- If you are illiterate i'm not going to keep reiterating myself. My point is clear as day, figure it out.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read.

What difference does it make if he was part of the series before or not, Was Simon, your example, part of the series before they introduced him? NO! You need to be introduced at some point, there is no rule of when.

- Everything sir. Your examples that you brought up failed completely. RIchard and Wally didn't suddenly turn white when they became Batman and the flash, they had been white for what is most likely a longer period of time than you have been alive.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

No it does not, because nobody cried about them replacing Batman with another WHITE character, which was my point, because you're crying that a Black character was replaced with another Black character without discretion. The only thing that fails is your comprehension. Trying to point out that Luke is a new Character, which apparently his has been shown prior, is pointless because it is nothing new for a new character to appear out of nowhere. So there is nothing indiscreet about just introducing a new character and retconning them into history, which means your basically crying about a Black on Black replacement and looking for reasons to justify it.

- Your point that failed atrociously.

- Richard didn't suddenly turn white a couple years ago, he had been white for a time period that is most likely longer than your life. People were going to complain about Richard replacing Bruce because he was white, even though it was the logical step and he had been white for over 50 years? I highly doubt that. The same thing goes for Wally. Two of your pathetic attempts at examples. Surprise, surprise.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- My comprehension failing is your opinion, try again. As far as i'm concerned, DC is making a character Black just to be Black.

- That's your opinion that there's nothing "indiscreet" and i'm not going to argue with you as i don't really care what you think. As far as i'm concerned, they should do it more discretely. The end.

- I don't need to justify my opinion sir, and especially not to you. You have no authority on the internet, nor does DC.

- I think it's indiscreet and i won't be buying this trash. The end.

LOL you build such a solid argument, however will I overcome this disassemblement of my argument, this staggering analyses and rebuttal, and your killer closing statement.

Except, no one complained that a White character replaced a white character, like when Azriel took over Batman, I didn't recall him being a side-kick. You still never explained why DC needs to be discrete either, but nice attempt to dodge the main point I was making. It has not escaped me with your "responses" ...

- Why i think DC needs to be discreet? I don't have to explain my opinion to you. I don't know who you think you are, but get over it.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- Because Azriel suddenly appeared after Bruce was crippled, and he definitely wasn't a previously established white character in the series. Another failing point. Surprise surprise. Bruce told Tim to train him. He was basically a sidekick of sorts. Try again.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

You don't need to back up your points in a debate? .... Concession accepted

- There definitely wasn't a concession and definitely not to the likes of you. Nice reach.

- I'm not obligated to follow your every demand, try again.

- There is no reason i should have to come up with solutions for DC's idiocy because i'm not being paid to do so. They pay people for a reason, they can figure it out.

- However, me not giving you an example of how it could be done doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If this is your argument, it's one of the most pathetic arguments i've ever heard. The "absence of evidence = evidence of absence " crap again, hilarious. Wherever i am, that argument never ceases to amuse me.

- I'll throw you a bone though. Simon Baz was introduced discreetly as far as i'm concerned. There's more on this below if you actually read it.

Concession accepted

- Once again, this is cute because there was never a concession. Try again.

Except I'm clearly talking about Luke. Notice I used the word "replaced"? Before you talk about illiteracy, you should learn to read

- Right kid.

the first 2 versions of Batgirl were introduced in the same manner(out of nowhere, related to per-existing characters).

- Introduced is now replaced? I think you need to go back to second grade and learn how to read.

And Luke didn't suddenly turn black so you fail. I also find it funny you comment about their starting color has nothing to do with the actual point regarding how Simon's introduction varied in being discrete, You'll need to troll harder kid.

- Because i was definitely speaking about luke and not david and i definitely brought up Wally and Richard. Oh wait, that's not the case. Try again.

- They had been there for years, if there starting color was an issue it would have been one over 50 years ago or so. Try again.

- You brought up wally and richard, i brought up Simon. Try again.

- Wally and Richard definitely do not have anything to do with Simon.

Luke started off as Black, so again, your point about Dick's stating color is nonsense and adds nothing to your "argument". The point about someone complaining that DC replaces white characters with others, is that is dumb, just like complaining that DC is replacing a Black character with another because you have failed to give a reason why Luke is clearly not a logical step to be the next Batwing. DC didn't want to cannibalize another character or plotline, so they went with a new character and someone they purposely didn't want associated with David. And as Luke is a new character, as everyone is quick to point out, I find it baffling they would say his is not a logical/good/whatever choice as we know little about him. All people really know is he is black, and that seems like an issue. And Batgirl has already shown that you can introduce a character abruptly and have them make a strong impact.

So by your own reasoning of why Dick can replace Bruce and not be subject to scrutiny of Same race replacements and your use of Simon base as an example of discrete introduction, I'm still waiting for a solid reason that makes Luke an illogical choice. OH wait you don't need to back up your statements do you?

- Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know.

- I think you would be the one to give a reason why Luke would be a logical step to the next Batman. You brought him up the same way you attempted to bring up Richard and Wally, and those points certainly failed. You'll have to do better than that.

- So now you're telling me what DC wanted to do? Ok, you would definitely know what DC's mindset was.

- Because introducing a character abruptly was definitely a one of my points before. Oh wait, it wasn't as this is nothing new in comics. Try again, and read properly.

- You mean why your point of RIchard replacing Bruce fails after he had been there for over 50 years? That's the logical reason, he had been there for over 50 years and had been established as white from BATMAN #1. If the first Robin from Batman #1 wasn't going to become Robin, please tell me who was. John Stewart? The Joker? Or perhaps Aladdin?

- I don't see why anyone would tell you that this point would work sir.

- You mean the way Luke is and obvious attempt to have a black character just to have a black character and that DC is getting rid of David simply because they don't like the sales of the book and nothing more?

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

- I don't need to back up my opinion, because opinions can't be true regardless but i damn sure can if i choose, and especially against your pathetic arguments.

Here is a hint, if you're going to post your opinion on the forums, people will question it. You choose to respond to my comments, don't cry because you can't back it up. Concession accepted!

- If only i needed to back something up against your pathetic arguments. I'm not here to please you kid, try again.

- You can question my opinion all you want as i don't care what you think either way.

- Being unable to back it up is different from choosing not to kid, because you seem to ignorantly think i have some obligation to do so in order to please you. Try again kid.

- As if there was a concession to the likes of you.

Barbra appeared out of nowhere and took up the Batgirl mantel out of nowhere. That was my example, not Azriel. The only difference between Barbra and Luke is that there was a gap between the 1st and second Batgirl. Batwing does not have that option because they don't want to cancel the comic. Azriel is just one example of replacing a character of a particular skin color with another character of the same skin color without there being uproar.

Since you clearly don't understand what I've done. Let me explain, I've have deconstructed your argument into its various components.

  1. Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.
  2. Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)
  • Azriel, Dick, Jason, Wally, apply to point 1
  • Barbra, Simon apply to point 2 (and technically 2 as well)

A proper argument requires each of its points to individually stand scrutiny. Every time I attack point 1 you've been trying to use point 2 as a crutch even though point 2 is invalidated by your own use of Simon as an example as well as Barbra.

If the concept of replacing a person of a specifically color with a person of the same color is not in itself taboo (point number one), and Introducing a character abruptly is not Taboo I can't see why the combination of the 2 situations would suddenly be so uncanny, especially for Black characters.

I find it laughable that you're unwilling/unable to clearly state why a Black replacement character needs to be intruded discretely, while at the same time, not willing to even define what you mean by discretely, while taking into consideration that the choice to swap was itself relatively sudden.

- Oh, Barbra was your example not Azreal even though you brought Azreal up? Is it because Azreal fails at this point? The answer is obviously yes. Nice try.

- Azreal was already there within canon continuity.

- Additionally, the second Batgirl was Asian /Asian american if i'm not mistaken. OH LOOK, DIVERSITY THAT ISN'T SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

- They didn't get rid of Barbra specifically to have some Asian replace her did they? No, she had a specific story with the joker that resulted in her being crippled? I suppose this is your concession then.

- My argument is that they are having a Black character simply to have a Black character and nothing more.

- When was "point 2" ever a part of my argument? Sure, it makes it obvious what their doing, but what they're doing is the important thing here which you apparently failed to read.

- Every time you "attack" "point 1" your examples have been utterly, utterly trivial so i suggest you do better. As i said before, i , along with other people, frown on diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Again, both of these points make it obvious what they're doing. However, it is apparently not obvious enough for you.

- Have you been reading? I don't care if you replace one character with one of the same race, but if you're just having diversity just to have it then i will frown upon it.

- Replacing a character with one of the same race may be frowned upon depending on how it's done, and it makes certain things painfully obvious.

- You're clearly illiterate as you apparently don't understand the phrase "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity". It's funny that your "points" weren't actually points of my argument, they just made my point clear as day.

- Clearly a Black character doesn't need to be introduced discreetly as Luke certainly isn't being introduced discreetly. However, if you don't introduce them discreetly it's obviously diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not sure if you understand what that is though.

- Discreetly doesn't necessarily have to do with time sir, i suggest you familiarize yourself with a dictionary

If I recall after watching the history of comics documentary, Batgirl was introduced for the sake of diversity. I'd like to know your thoughts on this.

- Interesting. It's not as though is was alive at the time of her inception, or that i've actually read the book in which it was done. Thus, i wouldn't know how it was done.

- If it was painfully obvious and forced what they were doing, i'm completely sure that some people disliked it.

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but not the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

Edited by drgnx

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was. You also pointed out "Sinestro" would eventually return, but not how it tied to Baz being forced. Perhaps you should remember what you write.

I know you don't like me quoting crap but here are your posts....sweetheart!

------------------------------------------

- If you actually read Green Lantern, you would have known that Simon becoming green lantern has little with him being arabic, nothing to do with sales, and nearly everything to do with the plot. Moreover, it wasn't forced in the least. Oh, for your information Sinestro is back as well now and apparently hal will be back shortly as well.

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

---------------------------------------------------

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

Posted by thejman250

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Don't blame me because you lack the cognitive skills to properly articulate yourself and lack the maturity to conduct yourself in a appropriate manner on these threads. You could have just mentioned not to use the quote function when responding, if that is what you truly meant. Considering you said it after I quoted your response, combined with your uncanny ability to forget your own posts, I question that. But clarity is not a concept you grasp.

You will notice that your name calling didn't phase me one bit (I'm actually guessing you didn't), it just shows how bent out of shape you got. I'm sure at your age, name calling makes the arguments sound better at recess, you'll learn some day, I guess/hope.

But since you have forsaken every opportunity in this response to conduct yourself in an appropriate manner and provide any sort of argument, it is obvious logic and reasoning are not part of your "opinion".

And "English" is capitalized ... sweetheart!

Posted by thejman250

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Don't blame me because you lack the cognitive skills to properly articulate yourself and lack the maturity to conduct yourself in a appropriate manner on these threads. You could have just mentioned not to use the quote function when responding, if that is what you truly meant. Considering you said it after I quoted your response, combined with your uncanny ability to forget your own posts, I question that. But clarity is not a concept you grasp.

You will notice that your name calling didn't phase me one bit (I'm actually guessing you didn't), it just shows how bent out of shape you got. I'm sure at your age, name calling makes the arguments sound better at recess, you'll learn some day, I guess/hope.

But since you have forsaken every opportunity in this response to conduct yourself in an appropriate manner and provide any sort of argument, it is obvious logic and reasoning are not part of your "opinion".

And "English" is capitalized ... sweetheart!

- Coming from an idiot who lacks the grade school grammar and spelling abilities that any idiot should have, you probably cannot fathom how little that means to me.

- You clearly don't understand the English language so i'm not surprised to see that you cannot comprehend simple posts.

- Because you haven't been quoting my responses this whole time. Oh wait. Surprise, surprise.

- I couldn't care less what phases an idiot like yourself, as your ignorance evidently knows no bounds.

- I'm sure that you probably wouldn't even understand an argument that was spoken in your native tongue, so i'm not too confident that you will ever be able to grasp the English language.

- "appropriate manner" "any sort of argument" sound like more opinions of an idiot to me. Surprise, surprise.

- Coming from an illiterate idiot who apparently thinks his opinions are fact or hold some authority on the internet, any mention of "logic" and "reason" from you is utterly, utterly ironic.

- As if your corrections could actually hold any weight after your butchering of the English language in your various posts sweetheart.

- Should i recommend you to a dictionary, or perhaps Rosetta stone would server you better?

- Oh, and you're still quoting me with your drivel. Surprise, surprise.

Edited by drgnx

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Don't blame me because you lack the cognitive skills to properly articulate yourself and lack the maturity to conduct yourself in a appropriate manner on these threads. You could have just mentioned not to use the quote function when responding, if that is what you truly meant. Considering you said it after I quoted your response, combined with your uncanny ability to forget your own posts, I question that. But clarity is not a concept you grasp.

You will notice that your name calling didn't phase me one bit (I'm actually guessing you didn't), it just shows how bent out of shape you got. I'm sure at your age, name calling makes the arguments sound better at recess, you'll learn some day, I guess/hope.

But since you have forsaken every opportunity in this response to conduct yourself in an appropriate manner and provide any sort of argument, it is obvious logic and reasoning are not part of your "opinion".

And "English" is capitalized ... sweetheart!

- Coming from an idiot who lacks the grade school grammar and spelling abilities that any idiot should have, you probably cannot fathom how little that means to me.

- You clearly don't understand the English language so i'm not surprised to see that you cannot comprehend simple posts.

- Because you haven't been quoting my responses this whole time. Oh wait. Surprise, surprise.

- I couldn't care less what phases an idiot like yourself, as your ignorance evidently knows no bounds.

- I'm sure that you probably wouldn't even understand an argument that was spoken in your native tongue, so i'm not too confident that you will ever be able to grasp the English language.

- "appropriate manner" "any sort of argument" sound like more opinions of an idiot to me. Surprise, surprise.

- Coming from an illiterate idiot who apparently thinks his opinions are fact or hold some authority on the internet, any mention of "logic" and "reason" from you is utterly, utterly ironic.

- As if your corrections could actually hold any weight after your butchering of the English language in your various posts sweetheart.

- Should i recommend you to a dictionary, or perhaps Rosetta stone would server you better?

- Oh, and you're still quoting me with your drivel. Surprise, surprise.

This is something funny about a guy who can't get past the concept of "point form" talking about grammar....okay to be fair, it is more about your inability to organize your thoughts into fluent paragraphs. But don't cry so hard, you will short circuit your keyboard :)

Edited by thejman250

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Don't blame me because you lack the cognitive skills to properly articulate yourself and lack the maturity to conduct yourself in a appropriate manner on these threads. You could have just mentioned not to use the quote function when responding, if that is what you truly meant. Considering you said it after I quoted your response, combined with your uncanny ability to forget your own posts, I question that. But clarity is not a concept you grasp.

You will notice that your name calling didn't phase me one bit (I'm actually guessing you didn't), it just shows how bent out of shape you got. I'm sure at your age, name calling makes the arguments sound better at recess, you'll learn some day, I guess/hope.

But since you have forsaken every opportunity in this response to conduct yourself in an appropriate manner and provide any sort of argument, it is obvious logic and reasoning are not part of your "opinion".

And "English" is capitalized ... sweetheart!

- Coming from an idiot who lacks the grade school grammar and spelling abilities that any idiot should have, you probably cannot fathom how little that means to me.

- You clearly don't understand the English language so i'm not surprised to see that you cannot comprehend simple posts.

- Because you haven't been quoting my responses this whole time. Oh wait. Surprise, surprise.

- I couldn't care less what phases an idiot like yourself, as your ignorance evidently knows no bounds.

- I'm sure that you probably wouldn't even understand an argument that was spoken in your native tongue, so i'm not too confident that you will ever be able to grasp the English language.

- "appropriate manner" "any sort of argument" sound like more opinions of an idiot to me. Surprise, surprise.

- Coming from an illiterate idiot who apparently thinks his opinions are fact or hold some authority on the internet, any mention of "logic" and "reason" from you is utterly, utterly ironic.

- As if your corrections could actually hold any weight after your butchering of the English language in your various posts sweetheart.

- Should i recommend you to a dictionary, or perhaps Rosetta stone would server you better?

- Oh, and you're still quoting me with your drivel. Surprise, surprise.

Don't cry so hard, you will short circuit your keyboard :)

- Have a nice day you ignorant child and/or admittedly effective troll.

Edited by drgnx

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

@drgnx said:

@thejman250 said:

LMAO, then why don't you post your argument instead of telling me I'm illiterate? You should at least be smart enough to know how to copy and paste. Since my interpretation/opinion of what diversity simply for the sake of diversity means is not right, and according to you it is so simple, you should not have any issue elaborating.

- You mean that DC is having Diversity simply for the sake of diversity? This was posted ages ago, you're just illiterate.

- You're "interpretation" of it is that it's ignorance(according to your drivel) and that's simply your opinion that i don't care for.

Since you can't attack my points you attack me directly. How cute. Don't have a cow man, it is just the internet.

- What points? You mean your drivel that you fabricated into my agument , or the points you brought up that couldn't adequately defeat the points that you fabriccated? Ok kid.

No you brought up points about these characters being white since they were created which added nothing to the discussion. But please explain how them being white since their creation makes them replacing other white character okay, while Luc replacing David isn't, or how it somehow ties to your diversity for the sake of Diversity argument. Dazzle me with your brilliance.

- I brought up points in response to your fabricating drivel into my argument. Ok.

- You know what, it wouldn't tie to my "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" because that's my argument and this drivel was something that you brought into the conversation. Common sense.

Actually you did when you defended Dick, Azriel, Wally replacing white characters using their prior integration to the universe and when you said "Then i think you need better examples for your point than Batman being replaced by Batman jr. who has been there for over 50 years or so. Not some random black guy being introduced in africa, and then being replaced by a guy who wasn't even in continuity at all as far as i know."

- i mentioned them after you initially brought them into the conversation? Surprise, surprise imbecile.

So basically the only thing worth addressing in the response is "To argue the points that you fabricated into my argument?" Are you admitting then that you have offered no points in this debate? Since all the points I seem arguing against were fabricated by me? LMAO. O I must be illerate, and missing all those points you didn't feel you need to explain to the likes of me? RIGHT? OMG! Thanks for that.

- "The only thing worth addressing" is an opinion, and yours is quite trivial to me.

- My argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity which you clearly don't comprehend.

- Yes, the majority of this idiotic "conversation" consisted of your drivel and my responses to it. Surprise, surprise.

Hmm complete lack of any argument or explanation....Just throw insults...LMAO

- Diversity simply for the sake of diversity, doesn't need an explanation, it's common knowledge, and common sense will tell you what it is.

- If you have the brain capacity of a fish, that's not my problem.

in this debate

- Don't even flatter yourself by attempting to call this idiotic conversation a debate you imbecile.

- As if an incompetent illiterate imbecile like yourself would be worthy of having a debate with me.

But I though you were not using abruptness as points in your argument? I thought I was fabricating this. I also thought I made it clear that the level of integration a character has, has nothing to do with race, so you're attempt to keep using it to justify your hate for Luc replacing David or Or having Blacks just for diversity is pathetic. But keep using this pointer that I fabricated.

- Actually, abruptness has nothing to do with "Diversity simply for the sake of diversity"' as that can be done in a number of ways.

- My "hate for 'Luc' (you realize his name is Luke right?) replacing David"? Typical ignorance and assumptions.

- The level of integration was brought up as a response to your drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument.

- Oh , you think it's pathetic? If only i actually valued your opinion more than that of an insect's.

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

So lets

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

- What i meant was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

- Diversity, simply for the sake of diversity is not limited to or necessarily associated with replacing a character with that of the same race, or introducing one repeatedly. Try again.

- It wasn't a point contained in my argument you imbecile However, i did use that "point" to point out how incoherent your drivel actually was.

I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but my comment about Luc needing to be Black for 50 years (not be 50s old but having existed in various forms for 50 years) was something called sarcasm. You used "my" fabricated argument regarding character integration to justify why Dick replacing Batman was okay vs Luc replacing David, in terms of racial scrutiny. So my question is that if Luc had been around as long as Dick was, would you stop crying that he replaced David. It is really a yes or no answer, you should be able to articulate at least that much (Y or N) with no issues, since elaboration on "diversity simply for the sake of diversity" is a bit much for you.

- To justify? No sir. I pointed out that the example you brought up was a poor example that couldn't properly defeat the points that you fabricated. I need to elaborate on a concept that an eleven year old could easily understand? Are you mentally retarded?

- If Luke had been around for 50 years in canon continuity and showed natural progression towards the role of Batwing (David would have had to be older than Luke in this scenario) , then it wouldn't be painfully obvious that DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity and then i might not have a problem.

Great post! Great arguments!

- Sure.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

Actually, and Ironically, the phrase is "Does your incompetence know no bounds". Its fitting this irony be turned back on someone trying to be witty in the face of their inability to understand sarcasm in regards to my terrorist reference being coincidental. But I completely love how you demonstrated how Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Aribic, unlike Luc, who we know nothing about, is all about him being black. Great explanation!

- Actually, that wasn't the phrase i was using, and that is a question. English clearly isn't your first language.

- "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic" Cute illogical drivel, it really puts your ignorance and incompetence on display.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

Not at all, I know it is hard to keep up but I am pointing out that like Luc, Baz was introduced got recruited in the same issue, so I don't get how one could Forced and not the other. But perhaps, for clarity, you should share your definition of forced and elaboration on how Luc is forced and Baz is not. Or will you keep that to yourself like all the rest of the logic behind your arguments?

- You don't get how one could be forced and not the other? What does that have to do with me or anyone else who has a problem with the topic at hand? Tell me how we are bounded by your opinion?

- Oh, you mean the way that sinestro and Hal died so a replacement was imminent? You mean the way the ring was going to choose someone immediately regardless? You mean the way we knew that Hal and Sinestro would still be green lanterns in future issue? Yes, Luke must be less forced than Bazz. However, you'll probably stick with your opinion regardless of what i say so i'm probably wasting my time here as you seem to think your opinion is fact from time to time.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

Feel free to counter by explaining why Baz was not forced but Luc is then sweetheart. And there should be no surprises since you lack the ability to even elaborate on your own points, I'm not even sure you know what your getting at.

- "Sweetheart"? Don't flatter yourself child.

- If only the likes of you could provide something that i needed to counter.

Don't worry, there is nothing flattering about you sweetheart.

Great rebuttal that adds nothing to the argument, oh wait, that is your specialty. Paragraph corrected. Whether or no someone has an issue with the diversity of the team, wasn't the main focus, it was the fact DC makes drastic changes to other titles. But I would be baffled even more than here if someone turned that into a race issue.

- You would be baffled if people turned race changes into a race issue? Surprise, surprise.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

I'm not sure if you even know what real reasoning is sweetheart.... just saying! But you're main argument here is I'm not worthy of your effort, yet you have spent several posts going through my posts one by one? LMAO!!!! So then are you admitting to not applying reasoning to your posts or something along those lines? LMAO!!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

- I'm not sure if you even know that the word "real" is subjective and that your opinion of what "real reasoning" is is not a fact.

- My main argument was that DC is having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you are incredibly ignorant and illiterate.

- You aren't worthy of having a debate with me and that's clear as day as you lack the brain capacity and common sense of an eight year old.

- You should be grateful that i'm entertaining your drivel in this "conversation".

But according to you, you didn't make any points because you don't need to explain yourself to me, and and since you didn't make any points and I fabricated them all, what would I possibly need to present to show you have nothing to support your argument when you yourself have all but claimed as much?

- I made my initial point that i thought DC was having diversity simply for the sake of diversity however, you're an illiterate imbecile.

- I'm not going to explain something that is common knowledge to you simply because you have the brain capacity of a fish, your parents can do that job.

- As if i needed something to support diversity for the sake of diversity. You simply lack common sense.

So let me explain this to you again. I used the first 2 Batgirls as example of characters where introduced in the same manner as Luc. They appeared out of nowhere and were integrated into the history of relatives that were linked to Batman, specifically 'allies' of his. This was only to show that Luc's sudden appearance was nothing new. This was in regards to your comments about character integration, not about keeping a character the same color, as I explained the Batmen were those examples (white to white), since these are separate concepts, I am using distinct examples of each element of your,sorry, my complaint. While Barbra replacing Bette does show an example of White replacing white, Cassandra taking up the mantle does not hurt my argument because I was never using Batgirl for my example of keeping a mantle a certain color.

- Maybe i would care if this wasn't a part of the drivel you fabricated into my argument. and it actually had something to do with Diversity simply for the sake of diversity.

So lets look and see

1) Replacing a character with of one race with a character of the same race.

So if you don't have issue with a Black character replacing a Black Character, what did you mean when you said "BECAUSE HE HAS TO BE BLACK"? If this was not in response to Luc replacing David as per topic, yet linked to diversity for the sake of Diversity, explain how this "fabricated" interpretation clearly does not fit your intended objection.

2) Introducing a character abruptly (which can include replacing characters)

As you said, "[you] use one of the examples that [I] brought up to defeat the points that [I]" fab[r]icated. Which means is was "your" point! LMAO!!!!

Still waiting sweetheart

- "Sweetheart" Again, don't flatter yourself.

- Yes, because Diversity simply for the sake is diversity is limited to a black character replacing a black character. Oh wait, it isn't.

- Again, it wasn't a point contained in my argument, but it was something i used to point out the flaws in the drivel you fabricated.

-Try again.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

Great response, you're lack

of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- Being that i used your examples that you brought up to defeat points you fabricated to show you that they didn't defeat said points i didn't need any examples.

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able


Then enlighten me sweetheart

- I'm not going to to educate you simply because you're an imbecile without common knowledge. That sounds like your parent's problem.

When I say "we" I really mean "you". But feel free to correct me by clearly explaining what "you" mean by "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- If you don't know something that is common knowledge you probably aren't even worthy of me entertaining your drivel in this idiotic conversation.

I'll tell you what is "hilarious": the only valid point you've made this discussion, required "me" to bold and underline for you, and still added nothing to your arguments. (hint: If you don't get the pun, try again in a few years.) LMAO!!!

Perhaps yo should elaborate on "your" definition of "diversity only/simply for the sake of diversity".

- Oh you determine what points are "valid" for all comic book readers and human beings alive? Oh you don't? Surprise, surprise.

- I've actually had one primary argument, but you're apparently to illiterate and incompetent to know what it was even after i've repeated it dozens of time. I think "LMAO!!" would be appropriate here if i were to use something from your apparently childish vocabulary.

- Perhaps you should get a bit of common sense.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

So after several responses of this temper tantrum we get to 1 point worth addressing, underlined for your convenience. You said "The level of integration was brought up as a response to [my] drivel. Don't even attempt to associate it with my argument." So let me get this straight, after several claims, above (and below), of me injecting this into your argument, you admit to bringing it up in response to "my drivel" and it has nothing to do with your argument. THANK YOU!!!! So the one point you brought up in the whole conversation does nothing to support your argument. Yet despite your bringing it up, I injected it into your argument? LMAO!!!!

- One point worth addressing? That sounds like your opinion sir. However, you're evidently idiotic enough to regard your opinion as if it were actually a fact.

- Diversity for the sake of diversity is self explanatory. You evidently just lack the common sense to comprehend it.

- With that being said, i've brought up many points be they related to this or not however, you were just too illiterate to read them.

Considering you yourself already admitted the one point you brought up doesn't add you your argument, which you lack the ability to articulate upon, addressing this is moot.

- "The one point i brought up?" I've brought up multiple points child , be they a part of my argument or not, and you seem to think that you are the authority on which part of my posts were points and which aren't.

- You are such an utterly ignorant child.

The person who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph with supporting points and reasoning, shouldn't be talking about language. But you are right about "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with him being Arabic", I meant "Simon being Arabic had nothing to do with DC wanting an Arabic character". I know you get easily confused and distracted, I'll be more careful in the future ... sugar.

I will point out that once again you have added a post with 0 value to support your argument... LOL!!!

- "who does not know how to expand their thoughts into a paragraph" Oh, you would know that i don't know how to form a paragraph because i choose to use hypens in my posts?

- You've all but confirmed that you are an idiot. Because you haven't seen me form a paragraph i must not be able to form a paragraph. Using that fallacy of ignorance stance that you claimed not to use before huh? Typical idiot contradiciting yourself. Feel free to contradict yourself more.

- You aren't the authority on what my points are, what they support, and what is reasoning. Those are only your opinions sir.

- Oh, you are the divine determinant of what value my post has? Oh you aren't? Understood idiot.

- Anyone with a brain can see that English is your second, or third,etc language you buffoon. You apparently have the grammatical competency of a fish, and a comparable spelling ability to boot.

- I don't know what country you're from , but they should have done a better job teaching you english as well as common sense.

OMG, what is this, are you actually attempting to defend your stance? So tell me, have you read JLA? Because if you did, you would know that Batman and Cyborg had a list of potential candidates that was never revealed to the readers until they suddenly called on them. So Batman having Luc as an unknown candidate is actually along the same lines as the way some of the JL reserves were called in. So based on how some of the new JL members were introduced, this is in character for Batman. Just as Simon's introduction is in line with the Green Lanterns. And what relevance does whether or not Sinestro/Hal stay a green lantern have on whether or not Baz was forced? If David stayed on the team in some manner would you find "Luke" less forced?

- "Defend" from your opinion? Not a chance.

- However, i am entertaining you by providing a few factors that made Simon's introduction not to seem forced to me.

- Having superheros as candidate, most of which(if not all) previously existed and were previously superheroes before being considered for acceptance into the league correlates to bringing a random stranger in to be Batwing. You may think this makes sense, but i disagree.

- That's your opinion that it's in character for Batman.

- Simon's introduction would have been line regardless of what you thought as lantern's were chosen this way for years.

- I'm not sure if you read Green Lantern, but we knew from future solicits that they would be back. Moreover, for Hal to become a Black lantern we(well i,as i'm not sure what you can actually comprehend) all knew something like this would happen. The way it was done made it seem natural instead of DC obviously having diversity simply for the sake of diversity. However, you'll most likely dispute my opinion any way you can and attempt to say that your opinion is "correct" or "right" or some idiotic thing along those lines. Surprise, surprise.

- Oh, you put 'Luke' in quotation marks because you realized that you were too idiotic to actually spell his name correctly when it's available on nearly every page. You're using "Luc" in your points and you can't even spell his name correctly? Oh wait, the english language isn't your strong suit, so that's probably normal for you.

- I'm guessing that his name is spelled "Luc" in your country?

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

LMAO! Like I said comprehension ... I was referring to someone making a race issue based on the changes of the team. I keep forgetting you can't remember more than one response back. Here is the sentence with the said correction.

"Even the recent Stormwatch issue had a reboot for instance (which used a timeline change to suddenly reboot the characters, change roosters and story after the last storyline ended ... and without any build up at that). While the exact nuances are different it is similar that they gave a reboot of sorts to keep the series alive and did so in an abrupt manner. But no-one is trying to look through the changes in an attempt to call out diversity mandates, because these things happen."

-

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Like i said, common sense. That's what i was referring to , but we all know that you have difficulties using the english language. As i said before, you don't know who is and isn't making a race issue based on the changes of the team. Typical ignorance.

- Your opinion of me not supporting my arguments? It's as if you think that you can determine which of my posts supports something and which it does not for me and the rest of the universe. Additionally, when you fail to read my posts properly i don't know why you think i would care about your opinion at all(although i couldn't care less at it is).

Great response, you're lack of examples and proof and logic and deductive reasoning is so overwhelmingly LOL-able

- What i've said that needed examples have them, however you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and don't support something, what parts of my posts do and do not prove something, and what the quality of my "logic" is for a fact for me and the rest of reality. Typical idocy.

More of you not supporting your arguments....surprise surprise...lol!

- Again, you seem to think that you determine what parts of my post do and do not support my arguments for a fact. However, i'm pretty sure that you're an idiot or a professional troll. Additionally, i'm leaning towards the prior as you don't even deserve that minimal benefit of the doubt as far as i'm concerned. Surprise, suprrise.

- The majority of your posts seem to revolve around drivel and "Lol-able" immaturity. However, that's probably the norm for an imbecile such as yourself. Surprise, surprise.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- I don't need an example to back up my point sir. I'm not obligated to brainstorm for DC simply because they lack the brain capacity to do it themselves.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

So basically after more tantrums in place of logical argument presentation, we get to one post worth addressing where you completely dodged the question on how Senerstro and Hal returning to the corps effects how forced Baz was?

Once again, you miss the point. Batman is always recruiting, the way he is bringing in the character "in story" is similar to the way he brought in the other JL members. The way DC is rectifying this is similar to how they have historically introduced other new characters that they wanted to link to existing characters.

And according to you, it is okay for a new lantern to appear suddenly in the story but the new Batwing because Baz was planned by DC in advance and Luke was not or because he is not being forced to integrate into existing characters lives as fast? Assuming this is one of your reasons, how does that tie back to your issue with "Luke" being Black for the sake of diversity while claiming that Baz is clearly not Ariabic for the sake of Diversity?

And yes, I have several friends and relatives who spell their names or middle names "Luc". Is their customs a problem for you too? And again, the guy who lacks any concept of articulation is in no place to talk about displays of language.

- "Sinestro" sir. Apparently you like to put your grade school spelling competency on a large display.

- Actually, i did answer the question however, you apparently didn't read it or it wasn't the answer you wanted. Surprise, surprise.

- According to me, a new lantern appearing when one dies is a tautology as the ring is programmed to choose another user.

- You can like it or dislike it, it was going to happen regardless.

- You clearly are illiterate. You asked me why i thought Baz wasn't forced and i actually entertained you. I suggest you go back and read what i said as this question has already been answered. You are able to read, aren't you? I assume you can read up to some minimal capacity because you've been quoting me, albeit with utter drivel.

- One who doesn't comprehend the basics of the English language which five year olds know, is in no place to speak about language or articulation.

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

Yup an entire post of you still not providing any sort of real argument.... surprise surprise ..sweetheart!

As for your previous posts, you did a great job supporting your non-points, that I seem too illiterate to read, when you said:

- "any sort of real argument" is just your opinion You'll have to do better than that if you actually expect me to care.

- Whatever i've said that i felt actually needed to be supported was as far as i'm concerned. If it didn't fit your criteria for that, or you didn't read it feel free to cry me a river.

Yup, GREAT PROOF.

- If you're done with quoting me with nonsense, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel any further However, you'll probably continue to quote me with more ignorant nonsense. Surprise, surprise.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

LOL, another tantrum ....

So basically another dodge? You brought up Simon in the context of Him not being introduced for the sake of diversity, and while after several attempts you finally being able to cobble out an explanation of why you feel he was not rushed vs Luke, you have not justified in anyways how it shows that Baz was not introduced for the sake of diversity while Luke was.

- "So basically" you're illiterate as i've given examples as to why i thought Simon wasn't forced, and why i felt Luke was and you've simply failed to read them.

- You're clearly an idiot or a very good troll.

So you admit that the post I quoted (your quote) is nonsense??? THANKS! LMAO!!!

- Anyone with common sense would know that i was referring to your drivel. However, i know that English isn't your friend or even a close associate, so it's not surprising that you can't comprehend or use the language correctly.

- When you press the quote button on my post, you quote me and write your response In this thread, you have been quoting me with drivel, the drivel belonging to you of course, on a consistent basis if not throughout all of your posts. This is an explanation that a five year old could easily understand however, i doubt you can comprehend it. Surprise, suprise.

- Wait, you don't understand english so you probably couldn't comprehend that?

- What language do you speak? Should i attempt to translate this into your native tongue so that you can understand, or are you simply utterly illiterate regardless of the language?

- Once again, i implore you not to quote me with your idiotic drivel.

- Oh wait, i used the word "your" in the last post as well and you still thought i was referring to my own post. However, this is understandable as you clearly don't know what the word "your" is and you evidently use "you" instead. And you claim to be able to articulate. How utterly, utterly foolish.

- I would sincerely appreciate it if you wouldn't waste my time with your idiocy.

Don't blame me because you lack the cognitive skills to properly articulate yourself and lack the maturity to conduct yourself in a appropriate manner on these threads. You could have just mentioned not to use the quote function when responding, if that is what you truly meant. Considering you said it after I quoted your response, combined with your uncanny ability to forget your own posts, I question that. But clarity is not a concept you grasp.

You will notice that your name calling didn't phase me one bit (I'm actually guessing you didn't), it just shows how bent out of shape you got. I'm sure at your age, name calling makes the arguments sound better at recess, you'll learn some day, I guess/hope.

But since you have forsaken every opportunity in this response to conduct yourself in an appropriate manner and provide any sort of argument, it is obvious logic and reasoning are not part of your "opinion".

And "English" is capitalized ... sweetheart!

- Coming from an idiot who lacks the grade school grammar and spelling abilities that any idiot should have, you probably cannot fathom how little that means to me.

- You clearly don't understand the English language so i'm not surprised to see that you cannot comprehend simple posts.

- Because you haven't been quoting my responses this whole time. Oh wait. Surprise, surprise.

- I couldn't care less what phases an idiot like yourself, as your ignorance evidently knows no bounds.

- I'm sure that you probably wouldn't even understand an argument that was spoken in your native tongue, so i'm not too confident that you will ever be able to grasp the English language.

- "appropriate manner" "any sort of argument" sound like more opinions of an idiot to me. Surprise, surprise.

- Coming from an illiterate idiot who apparently thinks his opinions are fact or hold some authority on the internet, any mention of "logic" and "reason" from you is utterly, utterly ironic.

- As if your corrections could actually hold any weight after your butchering of the English language in your various posts sweetheart.

- Should i recommend you to a dictionary, or perhaps Rosetta stone would server you better?

- Oh, and you're still quoting me with your drivel. Surprise, surprise.

Don't cry so hard, you will short circuit your keyboard :)

- Have a nice day you ignorant child and/or admittedly effective troll.

See, you can be nice when you try. Have a nice day yourself...sweetheart!

Edited by BRAZEKOOL

Okay this gives the opportunity for a Bat(man)-character I've always wanted, a tank, rather than a rouge.

Fox's Son has the ability to be this character that can just run in a beat the consciousness from his opponents rather than relying on ranged weapons so much. I think I'd connect more with a character like this that requires legitimate skill, rather than requiring so much tech. Although the self-healing suit is an interesting element, which could make him near-indestructible as a fighter.

Posted by Sammo21

This is cool, but we already know the Batman Beyond universe is not part of the mainline DC canon. This is just an easy way to bring in another character without creating one from scratch. I think this makes more sense than bringing in Carrie Kelly, honestly. Either way, I don't know if this is enough to make me want to read this book or not. My pull list is already massive.

Posted by maybetoby

This bothers me for a couple of reasons. I loved David as Batwing in Batman Inc and during his brief time with JLI, but I honestly found his own title to be quite boring. So to me this just seems like they switched David to Luke just to make the title more interesting. Which is ok I guess, but I picked up Batwing because I already liked David, and I really don't give a crap about Luke Fox so I'm probably going to just drop it. The whole dialogue given by David in the pic above just sounds like the writer justifying his choice, and not a "real" reason. I hope he still shows up in the remaining issues of Batman Inc, where he began and had the most relevance.

Edited by queenfrost_

Not that I'm disagreeing with the idea he deserves to be a character, but they can go through making a new member of the Bat Family and still no Cassandra Cain, someone who already has a fan base? The Bat Family has turned into a real boy's club,

Yep!

Edited by AshlynSandra1

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Posted by Kairan1979

@spadesslick:

I agree. After all the efforts to introduce us to David, they replace him with another Gothamite Bat-character. How he Is supposed to solve African problems with no connection to Africa?

Posted by w0nd

@faceman said:

@zeeguy91 said:

@faceman said:

@jphugo15: completely agree. he got his son killed, can't wait to see how he gets Lucius' son killed. Gets to a point where you gotta say Bruce, you're kind of out of control here. Dude seems like he's got quite the hard on for this new bat suit, look at the smile on his face! Hey man, your son was disemboweled before your eyes a couple days ago, maybe time to re-evaluate this whole running around dressed like a bat thing.

To be fair, Bruce really didn't get Damian killed. He told Damian to stay behind, didn't he? He saw that it was too dangerous. Damian disobeyed him and went to join the fight anyway.

@zeeguy91: In a way, he's not directly responsible for this particular extremely dangerous situation that Damian found his way into. Bruce left his skinny, 60-70 yr. old butler in charge of ensuring that his 11 yr. old living weapon of a son didn't leave the house to fight crime the way he normally would on this particular night. Now Bruce (according to the last issue of Batman Inc.) is pissed at Alfred that Damian is dead. C'mon man, take some responsibility for the choices you've made in your life. Not sure 'keeping dangerous vigilantes alive and out of trouble' is exactly part of Alfie's job description. I don't know; this whole Damian death is really sticking in my craw and I'm trying not to bitch too much about it until I see how Batman Inc. is resolved by Morrison. At the moment I absolutely hate it, think it was an awful idea and think the follow-up has been really poorly executed on paper. Honestly feels, reading the 'Requiem' issues, that the writers of the bat-books found out about Damian dying when we did (I know this isn't true). The aftermath has made it seem like something that just happened instead of the life-altering event that it should be. Cry a few tears...ok, what was I doing...oh right...PENGUIN YOU CAD!

What I know is that that Bruce was so transformed by witnessing the death of his parents that he vowed to change his life and carry out this personal mission. How will witnessing the extremely violent death of his own son effect Bruce emotionally? Not enough to change a single thing about his life, or even seriously examine whether what he is doing is sane or helpful to himself or others. Oh wait, he was feeling down but, you know, "RESOLVE" guy. For me, it's getting harder and harder to accept that Bruce (who we're all supposed to admire and respect) could even open the door to the batcave after what has happened let alone put on that suit and go out on patrol every night like nothing has happened. Sure he seems sad about it in a couple of the 'Requiem' issues (Batman/B&R/Batman Inc.) but for the most part it's business as usual for Bruce and Batman. My suspension of disbelief for this character (who I have loved for more than 30 years) is getting dangerously close to the ground on this one.

As you can see I have a lot of thoughts on the subject.

Also, Batwing!

Pretty much agreed with everything. Bruce needs to get off his high horse, someone needs to talk some sense into him but that's hard to do when he thinks he's always right.

Posted by DarkWriter

I know it's already been mentioned, but I'll mention again for emphasis: David Zavimbe was/is an excellent character in a perfect setting for a Bat-character, and I'm very sorry to see him go. I think Tinasha is just brimming with story opportunities and I hope that he's able to return (maybe with a new incarnation of The Kingdom, as suggested earlier).

Thus said, I'm willing to give Luke Fox a few turns as Batwing to see how it develops. I really enjoy seeing an AfrAm member of the Bat-family, but I also want to see him in meaningful stories.

Here's crossing fingers...

Posted by Raw_Material

Hmm, MMA fighter becoming a superhero...very coincidental..

Definitely picking up on the New 'Batwing' for sure.

Edited by Omega Ray Jay

To be honest I'm not all that impressed with Luke Fox being the new Batwing, I was more than happy with David Zavimbe and the network that was around him, as its been mentioned before the setting was brimming with potential but it just wasn't tapped into enough.

I always found the fact that he had no connection to the 'Bat Family' one of the most interesting things about him, if Batman Incorporated (an Idea I've never liked) was going to work then it wouldn't always have close members of the bat clan in it. It's intonational, the ideas and philosophy of the bat would have to adapt to suit them, wherever they may be. Thinking back on the issue itself the departure of David and co I have found to be almost insulting to the characters, admittedly things haven't been as strong as that first arc with Massacre but I just wish they had done more with what they had.

EDIT

Thinking this though, they have fundamentally changed the character I wanted to read, I have no Interest in Luke Fox and this closer proximity to the Bat family, I wish the book well, but I'm done.

Edited by HempKnight757

@jazgalaxy: Why does it have to be a "batfamily book"? Can't it just be Batwing aka Batman of Africa? What is more dangerous than Gotham? Africa. The problem is the book wasn't really marketed very well besides when he joined the burning ship that was the JLI. I guess no one black or white really bought the book. It started going down hill when they revealed who Massacre was to early & then Winick left & slowly died.

Posted by HempKnight757

Terrible. Very left down. I gave it a chance. So David just quits. Character 180. New writer, new direction. To me this was dream issue or Batwing is just dead. Big crap pie send off. Thanks, but no thanks. :(

Besides Aquaman, Batman, Justice League I think I might be done with comics. I'll check out Wake & more alternative stuff, but DC & Marvel both just annoy me. I could write better books.... Pretty pictures with not much else. Trade paperback material if that.

Edited by KingChronicle

Ican't wait to read the suit seems awesome (might even rival iron man's) and i like that Luke will be more Gotham oriented. epically if he joins up with other bat family members on missions. Wonder what dick and jason think of this

Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE

@queen_s_halo said:

So thy replaced one token black guy with another token black guy? So shocking. And clearly if the staff think it's a good idea, you can be sure it sucks.

Do you realize how ignorant this comment is? Your misuse of "token" only illustrates that you may be racist and don't even realize it. Or maybe you do?

For future reference:

A token character can also be used by writers to pay lip service to rules or standards, when they otherwise have no intention of doing so, such as by obeying anti-racism policies by including a token ethnic minority character who—despite being present often—has no function in the overall plot, does little or nothing, and is often a stereotyped character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_black_guy#Tokenism_in_fiction

So, a Black main character cannot be token--by definition. The main character is central to the plot. A token character is not.

If fiction is supposed to reflect reality, then we should obviously have some Black main characters--especially in a franchise with fifteen books, each of which is designed to tap into a different market: women, gays, the young, etc.

I have no problem with Luke Fox being Black since his father is--wait for it... wait for it--Black! And his father has been a key part of the mythos for decades now.

Not only is it good financially do have a diverse set of characters for your clientele to identify with or choose from, the character should be Black if we follow the logic of the story.

Further, Luke doesn't fit any conventional Black stereotypes that I've heard of before.

--

Your reflex to call the main character of a book token only seems to illustrate that you seem to think that Black characters are worthless, unwanted, or unlikely to contribute anything. I mean you did use to term to refer to both Luke and David, right? The fact that you don't do this with other non-black characters in the Bat-franchise is telling.

--

Let's demystify some misconceptions about racism.

1) You can be prejudiced against one racial group and not others. So you can hate that Batwing is Black while still appreciating that Cassandra Cain is Asian.

2) Due to cultural mores, many people of all races cannot admit to themselves to to others that they are prejudiced against a certain group of people. See these for more information:

Aversive Racism

Laissez-Faire Racism

--

I have no ill will toward you. How can anyone hate someone for not knowing any better? But I sincerely hope that you try to educate yourself on race issue that persist in the present day. Most universities offer great sociology classes on the subject.

Good day.

*STANDING OVATION!* You handed dude his own ass to kiss, congratulations on writing the BEST response I've ever read on Comic Vine!

Edited by daredevil21134

Is this foreal? Why would I care if Batwing had ties to the Batfamily? There are like 45 other members of the familly. and just like@jphugo15 said Batman looks like an idiot brining in a family friend into such a dangerous world. Also David didn't work because the story became straight up trash. It felt like Judd Widdick had a ghost writer or his heart wasn't in it or something. Batwing's realm was Africa and your telling me with poachers , war lords , blood diamonds , child soldiers , rape in the congo , your telling me there wasn't enough story there? Running away from David and Africa is a lazy excuse to bring another American Bat character into the fold as if that was needed...and the fact that he is an MMA fighter doesn't mean anything!

I agree