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Off My Mind: Why Red Hulk is a Better Avenger than Hulk

Regardless of which color you prefer or who's been a Hulk longer, each has their strong points and Red Hulk is what the team needs right now.

Unless you've managed to avoid all the trailers and clips for The Avengers, you've probably heard Tony Stark's line, "We have a Hulk."

That line brought a smile to the faces of comic book readers but it is a very valid point. The Avengers are indeed Earth's Mightiest Heroes. To live up to that name, they need to deliver the goods. In other words, they have to be able to back up that claim. There's pretty much nothing more intimidating than having a huge massive Hulk capable of smashing anything in sight.

While Bruce Banner and Thunderbolt Ross are two completely different individuals, they are both Hulks and have both been part of the Avengers. That's where the similarities end. As Hulks, they offer different things to the Avengers. We might be seeing Banner/Hulk in the movie but Red Hulk is proving he's the better Hulk to have on the team.

== TEASER ==

Now we've seen many different versions of the green Hulk. We've had the pure rage one that would provide an incredible amount of strength to the team. Strength isn't everything and they do have other powerhouses on the team. We've also seen the more intelligent version of Hulk. That's where he could be an asset. An extremely powerful and intelligent member is something every team would love to have. Hulk may have been able to maintain that smart persona from time to time but it always falls apart.

Red Hulk is exactly what the team needs, especially with AVENGERS VS. X-MEN going on.

As the Avengers embarked on the battle against the X-Men after Cyclops attacked Captain America, Red Hulk was there barking out orders. As a military man, he was telling heroes with more superhero battle experience than he has what to do. He was telling them that they need to fight smart. They need to take out those they know they can defeat first. They can't think of their opponents as friends. They need to go in and put a stop to the situation as fast as possible.

It's not all about strength.

A year ago I brought up what might be the one best superpower to have. It has nothing to do with the fact that I was a high school math teacher for a while but intelligence is key. Knowing how to defeat your enemy is a bigger deal than simply being able to smash one.

Banner was a Hulk for a lot longer than Ross but when he put his military mind to use, it was a different game.

The same can be applied to the preparations for facing the X-Men. Hulk would want to go in and smash everyone and everything. Destroy it all until the battle was over. Ross knows you have to be strategic about it.

That's also what makes Captain America a great leader. He may have the super soldier serum in him but its his ability to lead that makes him one of the best Avengers and capable of leading Asgardian gods and others.

I like Hulk. He's a great character but he's not known to be a team player. Even when he was hanging out with the other Hulks, it didn't last long. Red Hulk is a smart guy. He has experience dealing with super-powered enemies. The atmosphere in the Marvel Universe is changing. The Avengers' enemies are getting smarter as well. Red Hulk may provide an enormous amount of strength but its his mind that makes him a valuable member.

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Posted by Vance Astro
@FirestormElemental said:

I disagree. While red hulk is smarter than the original, I never want the hulk to be smart. i want him to kick ass.

Red Hulk actually isn't smarter than Banner.His intellect in Hulk form hasn't been an issue for quite some time now.
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Posted by TheWitchingHour

I'm with Tony on this. Red Hulk is great as an Avenger. I couldn't stand him in the first few appearances but he's great as a good guy.

Posted by Deadcool

@Vance Astro said:

Some of his issues are omega level bad.

At least he don't wrote Ultimatum; It could be worse, and yeah, a couple of his issues are bad, but he hasn't destroyed the whole univese,and the changes that he had done could be easily fixed by anyone, ANYONE, his changes are not big deal, and you know it, and people hate him for that.

Posted by celticcat

I've warmed to Rulk and he's a great addition to The Avengers, they're gonna need his experience when they fight the X-Men, is gonna be one tough scrap!

Posted by DarthHavok

all i can say is ross becoming a hulk is totally karma for all those years chasing the hulk obsessively

but always hulk is going to be better as he is the origial world breaking angry man

Posted by LordRequiem

Where's Wonder Man to take on some powerhouses? How much would you bet that someone dies at the end of this story arc?

I agree with general consensus in that this concpet is flawed. Civil war was an ok idea, but it won't work twice. And if the heroes were so noble, they'd rather talk than fight.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Deadcool said:

@Vance Astro said:

Some of his issues are omega level bad.

At least he don't wrote Ultimatum; It could be worse, and yeah, a couple of his issues are bad, but he hasn't destroyed the whole univese,and the changes that he had done could be easily fixed by anyone, ANYONE, his changes are not big deal, and you know it, and people hate him for that.

I don't think the "changes" he made are the problem.The misrepresentation of people's favorite characters seems to be the problem.Most of the changes he's made through events have been overturned which is also a complaint people have about him.It's bad enough every event since Secret Invasion has been a complete waste of time but on top of it nothing that happens in them even matter because it would be fixed in no time.
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Posted by Vance Astro
@LordRequiem said:

Where's Wonder Man to take on some powerhouses? How much would you bet that someone dies at the end of this story arc?

I agree with general consensus in that this concpet is flawed. Civil war was an ok idea, but it won't work twice. And if the heroes were so noble, they'd rather talk than fight.

Wonder Man doesn't have a good relationship with the Avengers nor is he active on any team.
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Posted by Agm

@jubeiyagyuX: I thought about responding to this comment too but I shook my head and realized it would be pointless. His complaints aren't about the characters. They are just about the fact he doesn't like Bendis.

The fact that he says half the x-men can beat Daredevil easy is just ridiculous already. Sure, a Magneto type, a Colossus type, or a psychic I'll give you. But anyone who can be taken down in a fist fight or with a bullet DD has a shot against.

Posted by Blood1991

She-Hulk was a better Avenger than either of them.

Posted by Deadcool

@Vance Astro said:

I don't think the "changes" he made are the problem.The misrepresentation of people's favorite characters seems to be the problem.Most of the changes he's made through events have been overturned which is also a complaint people have about him.It's bad enough every event since Secret Invasion has been a complete waste of time but on top of it nothing that happens in them even matter because it would be fixed in no time.

Well, when I said changes, I also meant the changes that he does in the characters (or misrepresentation as you said), for me is not great deal, anyone can change them back easily. And the thing with the events, it's true that they are inconsequential, but does that really matters? in my opinion if every event really changed something, then Marvel would be unreccognizable in a couple of years, is not a bad thing, but people complain about little things, then they would complain even more if they don't like those changes, also comicbooks are for being read and enjoyed, not to complete a collection, if you don't like them then don't read it, read comics is always a waste of time (and money) no matter how well written it is, the one thing that matters in comics is enjoy them.

Edited by silverlord90

@Illuminatus said:

How much did Loeb pay you for this article, Tony? :P

Seriously though, as admirable as Ross's little huzzah speech is, it is entirely pointless from a realistic standpoint. If you're going to fight the X-Men on their home turf, why are you bringing Black Panther, Hank Pym, and Daredevil? They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously. It just strikes me as odd that, out of all the individuals the Avengers chose to bring with them to Utopia, they brought some low-tier street levelers that may be classic Marvel characters with big personalities and unique skill-sets/abilities, but lack any real powers that give them any sort of edge over the X-Men. I mean, really, where is Blue Marvel? Where is Ms. Marvel? Where is Spider-Woman? Where is flipping Thor? Why isn't War Machine helping them out? Why didn't Danny ask for help from the rest of the Immortal Weapons? Why didn't Grimm ask for help from Reed, Sue, and the rest of the Future Foundation? Where in the hell is Strange? I would think Strange would be a necessity, given that they will be combating characters such as Magik and Colossus with an amping from Cyttorak.

This event is so utterly inept as a concept, and it's execution looks downright ridiculous. Almost all of the Avengers being sent in would be obliterated by a Magneto+Namor+Colossus team-up. Try harder, Bendis.


Okay, so now that I have vented my seething disdain for this event and Brian Michael Bendis, I shall comment on this article as a whole. For starters, it should be very obvious why Rulk is a better Avenger: he cooperates. On top of that, Rulk is actually intelligible. On top of that, he is fully capable of taking control of a situation and instructing an entire group of superheroes to do what he thinks will save the day and their lives. Is current Hulk capable of all this? Probably. Does current Hulk give a hoot about the Avengers as a whole? Nope. Until Hulk comes around to a way of thinking that fits with how the Avengers now operate, we're stuck with Ross. Better get used to it, folks.

That.

Posted by nappystr8

Totally agree with this article. I think Red Hulk is a perfect addition to the Avengers. For a long time I was upset to see him be little more than a token, or as window dressing, but for the last arc or so I really think Ross has proven himself to be quality Avengers material. Even though Bruce Banner was an original Avenger, he really doesn't fit a team dynamic at all.

Posted by ALdragon17

Yes, Rulk treats people like assets and in warfare you to have to be cold. If not, the enemy will use that against you. Fanboys want the Green, but the problem is that he can't effectively prosecute the battle. Uh, Cap is a Military Man, so Wolverine, and that's off the top of my head. When you go offf in charge and cyclops could beam ya and push you off the battle field, possible Emma Frost could make him mental midge (probably not), Juggs is there who can beat the Green Hulk. The thing is that most General will not put people in harms way without any tools to use and theres alot of stuff that a General can do, like call up air strikes (ah B52, steel rain, baby), Rail guns, opps. You guys are funny:)

Posted by ImperiousRix

As someone who has never been a Hulk fan, I actually prefer Red Hulk simply because he is different. He's a super-soldier. He shares a strange middle ground between the Hulk and someone like Cap. Sure, he doesn't have the same strong moral tugs as Cap, but the way his mind works is very similar.

But that's the thing, I feel like, realistically speaking, the Avengers need FEWER thinkers and MORE powerhouses. They have plenty of people who can lead on an intellectual front. I still believe, with the overall makeup of the team, good old Bruce is a better fit for the Avengers.

Posted by untammed

@War Killer said:


True, but I just don't see the point in having two Hulk's and not have one of them be the "evil Hulk". Ross has been trying to put the Hulk down for years, he made himself an enemy of the Hulk and he has been seen as such in every media that Ross has appeared in. Becoming Red Hulk was his way of fighting fire with fire and giving him the edge he needs to finally bring the Hulk down. I've never supported the idea of Red Hulk joining the Avengers and becoming a "good guy" because Marvel has plenty of heroes, and many of their top villains like Magneto and Doctor Doom have begun working with their sworn enemies (though I'm not sure what Doom is up to lately, so I may be wrong about that point). But I just feel that we already have a "good" Hulk in Banner, why do we need two?

I totally agree.I like rulk better because he thinks like a leader but the avengers already have like 2-3 leaders they dont need another one .Hulk is dumber and just charges every thing and every body(even his friends) and that what i like about him, he doesnt think he just does it

Edited by redbird3rdboywonder

@Roxanne Starr: I dont really mind Big Green or Joe Fixit

Online
Posted by Roxanne Starr

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Roxanne Starr: I dont really mind Big Green or Joe Fixit

What can I say?

I think I read my first (Green) Hulk story in the 70's and I thought even then that the character was already several decades out-of-date.

Posted by redbird3rdboywonder

@Roxanne Starr said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Roxanne Starr: I dont really mind Big Green or Joe Fixit

What can I say?

I think I read my first (Green) Hulk story in the 70's and I thought even then that the character was already several decades out-of-date.

I have to agree his character is a little bit dated but then again so was Supe's and look how long its taken them to try and revitalize his character

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Posted by 00__Beyonder_00

Agreed. However he cant deliver that extreme firepower that hulk can deliver due to Hulk empowering on pure rage and radiation while rulk only empowers on certain types of radiation.

Posted by officialbatman

cool

Posted by transformersjazz4

when they added a red hulk character. it really showed they had jumped the shark! it showed all real good ideas were gone at marvel. just add it to a string of shark jumping! i mean why stop at red..how about purple,yellow or maybe magenta color..oops..i just gave their summer story line away..geez i miss the good old days!!

Posted by Shazam78
@transformersjazz4: Isn't Marvel supposed to be the "House of Ideas"? What happened?
Posted by SarahPaulsen

Should've kept the mustache.

Posted by ReVamp

@Vance Astro said:

@ReVamp said:

I haven't explained why Hulk doesn't fit at all

Are you going to?

If you'd like.

Keep in mind though, this is all subjective.

The Hulk, when I see him is a character that basically represents the force of nature, he's in essence made of wrath or at least should be. Having him in a team like the Avengers is restricting to him and doesn't play to what I like the most about the Hulk. True, I don't really like the Hulk at all, but the characteristics I do like about the character don't show at all in his teaming up with the Avengers. Not to mention the the current Avengers Assemble title isn't helping this cause at all with its horrendous gut wrenching writing. Therefore, the Hulk shouldn't play well with other and shouldn't have to, Rulk is pretty much an attempt at a containable Hulk that doesn't have to represent wrath in such a manner, which makes him perfect for the Avengers.

Besides that, what the Avengers really need is to kill off Wolverine and go back to their roots, because that's what they really need. I fecking hope Hickman starts writing the Abengers.

Posted by KidSupreme

wow i didn't even know there was a red hulk

Posted by Ijan092

Well Hulk banner has never be a team guy something rulk is

at first i mmm didnt accept the character but i guess i gave him a chance and i like him now.

Posted by GT-Man

Rulk is cool but eventually its Hulk why? Because HE'S THE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Luthorcrow

Red Hulk is right up there bring back Osborn and Gwen Stacey has momentally dumb things Marvel has done that does not make me happy. Makes me want to smash.

Posted by zfightersfan100

I do stand up for the fact that red hulk is stronger

Posted by Postacrat

@skaarason said:

@the_fallen11 said:
I like Ross, even better than Banner. Yeah, we get it Bruce...your angry. Stop crying about it. And for the record. Ppl need to stop hating on Daredevil......he's awesome. And I'm happy he's involved in this fight.
couldn't have said it better !!

I definitely agree with the statement about Hulk, I don't see that deep of a character in Hulk anymore. I'm not even sure what he's so angry about any more. After a while it's gotten kind of old, how angry can a person get? Isn't Bruce a gamma Genius? He hasn't found a way to find some form of peace yet, and at the same time learning how to use the hulk in a more intelligent manner by now? Now in combat I think it still works in order for him to get stronger as he fights, but I'm tired of being forced to feel sorry for this guy it's getting old. They should start a new direction with Banner finding peace and only becoming the Hulk when he chooses, unless he's hurt or angered unexpectedly or in great despair. Him just being a giant grumpy Cry baby 100% of the time is just getting played to me personally... I don't want to feel sorry for Banner anymore, I want him to except what he is and move on to greater things!

Posted by Rhymes_McFist

I think that if you think kicking more ass makes someone a better Avenger, you're missing the point entirely.

Posted by JakeTrusty

Green Hulk for life

Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope

@Kairan1979:

You forget that Red Hulk was nearly pummeled to an inch of his life, then locked in a cube barely the size of a bathroom to stew for a week before Captain America went in to let him out.

He didn't suddenly "turn better". Red Hulk, in the Loeb era, was driven nuts by the Hulk power. Green Hulk and Cap had to threaten him with hanging just to get him to calm down and listen to them. So he's an anti-hero now, but didn't suddenly decide to prance around like some sort of Powerpuff Girl, ready to be awesome for no reason.

Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope

@The Impersonator:

THe film Avengers has Hulk as an homage to the original line-up. Right now Hulk is having a Jason Aaron induced identity crisis, so he doesn't give a mouse's butt about any team outside of himself (and a little snuggling on the side with Red She-Hulk).

And the "other" Hulk outside of green and red is Skaar, but right now he's trying to keep the Dark Avengers from going all Norman Osborn on everybody.

Posted by Kallarkz
@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@Kairan1979:

You forget that Red Hulk was nearly pummeled to an inch of his life, then locked in a cube barely the size of a bathroom to stew for a week before Captain America went in to let him out.

He didn't suddenly "turn better". Red Hulk, in the Loeb era, was driven nuts by the Hulk power. Green Hulk and Cap had to threaten him with hanging just to get him to calm down and listen to them. So he's an anti-hero now, but didn't suddenly decide to prance around like some sort of Powerpuff Girl, ready to be awesome for no reason.

Not quite true. His reasoning for change might have been under pressure but as of late he has shown that he is looking for redemption and wants to be a hero.
Posted by TheAcidSkull

@Dex_Starr: he is better as an avenger, but not as a hulk, in HULK 24# the green hulk defeated hulk and proved that he was the strongest one there was

Posted by TheAcidSkull

@zfightersfan100: stronger than hulk, read HULK 24# , that'll clear thing up.

Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope

@Kallarkz:

Although now he might not get a chance to reach that goal, seeing as Marvel most likely canned his series and how Avengers 28 looks like they might be killing Rulk off.

Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope

@Vance Astro:

No, Red Hulk is smarter than Hulk, even if the Not-So Jolly Green Giant can speak without saying his name all the time like a juiced up Gollum.

When Hulk was separated in the Jason Aaron 3-part arc, Doctor Doom told Hulk that his intelligence is that of a 7th grader; smarter than previous versions, but no rocket scientist. So far Hulk's been acting like a complete divide, similar to the film versions only with more steel stuck to him. Maybe Hulk might be a bit stronger with Bruce in him, but that remains to be seen.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@Vance Astro:

No, Red Hulk is smarter than Hulk, even if the Not-So Jolly Green Giant can speak without saying his name all the time like a juiced up Gollum.

When Hulk was separated in the Jason Aaron 3-part arc, Doctor Doom told Hulk that his intelligence is that of a 7th grader; smarter than previous versions, but no rocket scientist. So far Hulk's been acting like a complete divide, similar to the film versions only with more steel stuck to him. Maybe Hulk might be a bit stronger with Bruce in him, but that remains to be seen.

You didn't quote me so I don't have a clue what this is in response to...
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Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope

@Vance Astro:

Something about Hulk being smarter than Rulk.